SPL Reconstruction

After recent discussions about the state of the SPL and Scottish Football in general, there is no denying that the Scottish game needs re-vamped as it did this time last year when the 12 member clubs could not agree on a satisfactory change in the set-up and therefor stuck with what's in place despite no-one actually liking the current system, I've decided to write what I believe would be a far more interesting and attractive league, it would also have to realistically fall into the guidelines set by SKY (4 Old Firm games a season) and it's a particular format I've not seen mentioned or discussed so quite possibly it's an idea that hasn't been explored.

Well there is a big problem with re-constructing the Scottish Premier League, SKY have it built into their contract that there must be four Old Firm games a season and the only way to guarantee that is to have four league games, now four games a season hinders many potential formats, although I've been working on one that I believe would not only freshen up the league but give most teams something to play and aim for until the end of the season

I believe we should have an 16 team league with 3 teams relegated, two bottom sides and a play off between two other teams

Every team would play each other twice, 15 home & 15 away, 30 games isn't nearly enough and also leaves the league short of two Old Firm games, so after 30 games the league would split into four mini sections of four which would see teams playing the other three teams in their particular section home and away to take the final tally of games to 36, the points would remain in tact but every section would have a consequence.

Team 1
Team 2
Team 3
Team 4
---------------------
Team 5
Team 6
Team 7
Team 8
---------------------
Team 9
Team 10
Team 11
Team 12
---------------------
Team 13
Team 14
Team 15
Team 16


With this format only clubs who would face each other four times throughout the league season are the clubs who after 30 games finish in their respective sections, teams 1st-4th would face each other a further two times as would 5th-8th, 9th-12th and 13th-16th, it also leaves the possibility for 6 massively important games during the final six weeks of the season, for example if the top four clubs where Celtic, Rangers, Hearts and Dundee Utd the final 6 league weeks of the season could look something like this

Wk 31
Celtic vs Ranger
Dundee Utd vs Hearts

Wk 32
Hearts vs Celtic
Rangers vs Dundee Utd

Wk 33
Dundee Utd vs Celtic
Rangers vs Hearts

Wk 34
Celtic vs Hearts
Dundee Utd vs Rangers

Wk 35
Rangers vs Celtic
Hearts vs Dundee Utd

Wk 36
Celtic vs Dundee Utd
Hearts vs Rangers

This would be the same throughout the league within each mini section.

Teams 1, 2 and 3 in the first section would automatically qualify for Europe and the team who finish 4th would enter a European Play-Off

Teams in the second section fighting for that 5th spot for the European Play-Off

Teams in the third section fighting one another in an attempt to avoid finishing 12th which would enter them into the Relegation play-off

Teams in the fourth section would be fighting to finish 13th in order to 'win' their mini section and avoid relegation, the bottom two teams would go down with the 3rd bottom entering the Relegation Play-Off

So all in all we'd have a 36 game Scottish Premier League, which would then include European and Relegation Play-Off's, we'd also be guaranteed 3 promoted clubs each season which helps keep it fresh and the only clubs who play each other four times are the clubs in your section at the end of the season, this would also safe guard SKY's clause that their must be 4 Old Firm games

Champions
Team 1

European Play-Off
Team 4 vs Team 5

Automatic Relegation
Team 16 & Team 15

Relegation Play-Off
Team 12 vs Team 14

I hope that was easy enough to understand, what do others think of this type of Leafue Reconstruction?

Hilarious that you should suggest a European play off for 4/5th when even the top team is only guaranteed European entry via a million qualification rounds. UEFA would laugh in your face if you suggested three Scottish teams got into Europe, let alone 4.
How about just disbanding it and not bothering with it. Keeping these waste of time teams going is doing nothing worthy.

Don't bother commenting then, if I was interested in over the top unnecassary negative hysteria I would have asked you for your opinion, your views are so wide of the mark and blatently wrong because of the chip on your shoulder, leave the thread for guys who actually do have a positive view or hope for a new league format, you're a proven WUM who intentionally tries to hault any kind of positive conversation on anything regarding Scottish Football

Apologies, I didn't realise you could only comment in the affirmative.

I'm terribly sorry but a 4th/5th European play off is laughable. The top Scottish teams can't even get through 1 round of qualification. Why should 4 teams get the opportunity to try?

By the way, judging by how little traffic actually goes through the Scottish sector of this forum i'm about the only one who bothers to reply anyway, so you're lucky to get a response, even if you don't like the tone of it.

This post was made by super_realist who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post

I'd advise anyone to do this to all WUM's, particularly ones who are desperate for attention

I'm not a wum Gaffer, I just oppose everything you say about the SPL and you disagree with everything I say. It's opinion, and without it we wouldn't have a forum.

As for your silly little protest, it's hardly going to carry much weight considering you and I are the only ones posting on this topic.

Oh dear Gaffer, Resorting to pettiness simply because you can't argue your corner. Pitiful.

I have to be honest Realist, I generally take everything you say about Scottish Football with a pinch of salt. You produce an endless stream of negativeity about the game, specifically the Old Firm.

Yes the negatives of Scottish football far outweigh the positives...but there ARE positives there. When someone is constantly down on something and spits vitriolic diatribe on a subject, it diminishes the importance of what they are trying to say.

As to your little prodding comment about no one replying I'll give you my reason:
I don't agree with Gaffers league structure. The league splitting in to sections of 4 to protect the 4 OF rule from Sky is fairly presumptuous that they will always finish in the same section. (Fair enough, they are nearly ALWAYS 1st and 2nd so it shouldn't be a problem...but with the recent troubles at Rangers...this could see them dropping as they rely on youngsters.) But the reason I haven't responded is that I haven't come up with an alternative. So rather than coming on and laughing at the prospect of the number of Euro qualifiers and taking yet ANOTHER pop at the quality of the league as you have; I'm going to wait until I can possibly come up with an alternative before replying properly.

That's the thing though Celtic, criticism doesn't have to be constructive, especially when someone makes the presumptious and frankly ridiculous statement that Scotland ought to have 4 teams in Europe. That deserves a bit of ridicule. I would give Scotland one CL qualification spot, and one EL qualifying spot, pretty much what UEFA reckon is all they deserve from next year on.

I think the SPL would be far better by moving to summer for a start, that way they might be better prepared for the unlikely tilt at European qualification, I think more fans would turn up in summer too.

I'm not saying it always has to be constructive...but once in a while would be good. I'm not just basing it on this thread either; I don't think I've EVER seen you say anything positive about Scottish Football.

I agree that Summer football might be the way to go to help improve things. Matches are more likely to be postponed in Scotland in the winter; leading to fixture congestion...we usually get hit harder than down South. (Usually!) So starting earlier would help with that.

But I do think the league needs a complete restructure. You can't have a top teir league consisting of 10 teams playing eachother 4 times a season. It's ridiculous.

The league splitting in to sections of 4 to protect the 4 OF rule from Sky is fairly presumptuous that they will always finish in the same section.

You're right, it is presumptuous, they might not finish in the same section although chances are they probably would, the point though would be it gives the league a fresh look, more open and is far removed from the closed door boys club it is currently, it also adresses the likelyhood of four Old Firm games which would be based on probability, without SKY's go ahead no changes would be made, I feel we'd need to make it an active move to give SKY at the very least a chance for the four Old Firm games

As for the European places, Scotland have four every year, 3 from the league and 1 from the Cup, if a top 3 club won the Cup or qualified through getting to the final then the European play off would be between SPL Team 4 and Team 5, if teams outside of the top 5 qualified through winning the Scottish Cup Final then the play off would be contested between Team 3 and Team 5

Oh I know the likelihood is that they would finish in the same sections...it would take something big for that to change (Although as mentioned...administration could be that thing.)

I'm not completely writing it off...just not entirely sold on it. As I said, I didn't really want to comment on this until I had an alternative. There is no point just coming on and saying "Don't like this idea..." unless you can then back it up with what you would suggest.

I'll have a think and maybe come back to it.

Yeah that's no problem mate, change is something that devides opinion, no problem with that at all, you don't necassarily need to have a viable alternative to voice what you don't particularly like about it, not surprisingly I do like the idea of it but posted it up in the hope it might spark a bit of debate and if anyone had any alternative idea's then get them down too.

I've no doubt that Rangers will be significantly weakened due to Administration and a ban in Europe could have a poisitive effect on whoever finishes third who could then get their CL qualifying spot, they might not progress but financially it could help, that being said, even with a significantly weakened side, I still expect Rangers if and when they come out of Administration to have enough pull and pennies to just about attract good enough talent to see them at the very least compete at the top end if not for the Championship

I'm all for change I've been banging on about about a complete league restructure to anyone who will listen for years now. I have to comend what is a well thought our proposal to the SKY/Old Firm problem that remains a sticking point for any possible league restructure. Yet I don't agree with your proposal as I hate leagues that split after so many games, its something that will forever be a sore point for me.

The big problem is the only way to accommodate what SKY wish and many of the short sighted remaining SPL wish is to go with a structure that involves such a split. It's prob why I think the SPL clubs should just live within their means some more and reorganise the league looking at the long term healthy of Scottish football rather than at their short sighted possible gains.

Remove the 4 Old Firm games (come the end of the season there may not be any Old Firm games), go to a larger league with each team playing each other twice. I am more than happy to agree with you Gaffer on your proposal for relegation in any league we end up with. While SKY money is a sore one to lose if it happens I'm not sure Scotland can keep crippling itself to accomodate such a thing. The current format is clearly not working and I'm not convinced any format will that tries to incorporate 4 Old Firm games a season.

Dass I can't disagree with you mate, I too hate the split, the only reason it's been incorporated in my proposal as you know is due to this insane clause Neil Doncaster allowed SKY to put in the contract, the only thing decent about this split means teams will play each other an equal amount of times, either one home and away or two home and away

the-gaffer wrote:

The league splitting in to sections of 4 to protect the 4 OF rule from Sky is fairly presumptuous that they will always finish in the same section.

You're right, it is presumptuous, they might not finish in the same section although chances are they probably would, the point though would be it gives the league a fresh look, more open and is far removed from the closed door boys club it is currently, it also adresses the likelyhood of four Old Firm games which would be based on probability, without SKY's go ahead no changes would be made, I feel we'd need to make it an active move to give SKY at the very least a chance for the four Old Firm games

As for the European places, Scotland have four every year, 3 from the league and 1 from the Cup, if a top 3 club won the Cup or qualified through getting to the final then the European play off would be between SPL Team 4 and Team 5, if teams outside of the top 5 qualified through winning the Scottish Cup Final then the play off would be contested between Team 3 and Team 5

Not next year, as Europes 18th ranked team, the SPL gets only one qualification place for the CL and one for the EL. Not sure about the cup, I imagine another qualification spot for the EL, and that is probably about right.

The SPL should just go back in time. Let it survive with what it can. The gate money alone for the OF should mean they can pay players a reasonable amount. Let's face it no matter what happens none of the other teams has a chance to win the league, so they can try to survive as much as they can. The SPL should sign a deal with the BBC or ITV for highlight shows. OF and Edinburgh derbies can be shown live as they will probably be sell-outs. It's not sexy I know but it will place Scottish football in its rightful place.

Lorus, doesn't sound like you know much about Scottish Football. For a start the BBC already has a highlight show, plus delayed matches on BBC Alba, It doesn't bring in much money and I simply don't think there is sufficient appetite for the viewers.
The SPL is a poor product at present, and something has to be done from the bottom before you'll get people to have an interest in it again. At the moment it's like tuning in to watch a Danish or Swedish league match, and you wouldn't do that would you?

Don't Danish and Swedish people watch their own leagues? My comments about the BBC or ITV were meant to say that they only should have the coverage and not SKY as they won't see it as an attractive proposition. What did they do before SKY came along? As I said go back in time and have no delusions of grandeur.

Scandinavians are massive fans of the English game and play their own football in the summer, so the two can co-exist.
Sky don't see the SPL as an attractive proposition, in the same way that the BBC don't really either, their coverage is pretty much token. and piecemeal at best.
The thing about the SPL is, as an armchair fan, why would you watch it when you can tune in to watch the EPL or any other league instead.
The SPL has a lot to answer for in terms of how it markets its product, but it's also a victim of other leagues success and the way in which we can now consume media via Satellite, Cable and Internet.
Why have a sandwich when you can have steak?

Havnt read any of the other posts so sorry to anyone who may have already suggested it but for me for a long time Ive felt that the best way forward for Scottish football is for the other clubs getting a helping hand or for the Old Firm to start splitting tv revenue. I know they are the biggest draws but the gulf between the different levels is shocking and Rangers getting a 10 point deduction with 13? games left and not dropping a place says it all

The SFA or SPL need to put money into clubs and take a hand in the running of them for a period and make it a more competitive league and hopefully clubs will develop better players over the years

So, super what is the answer? My thoughts are let Scottish football just be Scottish football. Long before there was any SKY or cable, Scottish football existed and it always will. It cannot compete with the big European leagues and trying to is futile. Who ever wins the Scottish title is still going to be the champions of Scotland. If they are not good enough to compete in Europe so be it. For a country of their population what do you really expect? I think considering the Scottish climate, summer football would really be the way to go. It is not as if there is another summer sport to compete with it.

I agree, it needs to forget about trying to compete, the Old Firm need to forget about being big teams, they need to forget about trying to qualify for Europe and really they are not much more than a feeder league to the championship.

I agree summer football would be a step forward, they might at least get through one European qualification round if that was the case. Scottish football is also too expensive to go and watch. I remember a few years back my cousin was a Charlton season ticket holder. He could watch Man U for less than I could watch two of the worst teams in the SPL play.

It depends what the casual fan wants.

Do you want a level playing field and have Celtic and Rangers playing at the same standard as the rest of the league just to purely make it more enjoyable and unpredictable to watch? Or do you want the SPL to grow in stature and become a better league?

If its the latter, surely the aim is to actually have Celtic or Rangers to be succesful in European competition. If Celtic consistently qualified for the Group Stages of the Champions League and even made it through the the second round, it would be beneficial to Scotlands chances of receiving an extra European spot in accorfance with UEFA's coefficient system. If Celtic accumulate enough points in the next 5 years, they will go up in UEFA's rankings and ultimately Scotland will receive an extra spot in the Champions League.

Champions League = Revenue.

With the money created, the aim should then be to develop young players, improve facilities at the academys, and make the transition from grass roots level to pro-level easier for youngsters to achieve.

H, Chicken and Egg though isn't it. The OF can't qualify for the Champions League because they don't have the money to compete at that level (or even the Europa League). They can't get in automatically because their coefficient is rubbish and no one is interested in watching them on TV so no companies pay in for TV rights in sufficient values.

True, but they're always there or there abouts in the final qualifying round. With a bit of luck and a kind draw there is no reason why the OF shouldnt make it to the group stages of the CL.

My point initially was that any Scottish football fan should surely WANT the OF to succeed in Europe to improve their coefficient, thus creating the extra revenue.

Rangers losing to Malmo in qualifying was shocking. There is no way they should be losing that tie. They didnt just let themselves down they let down the whole of Scottish Football. If they had won that match, they might not be in the state they are today.

H, they certainly aren't. This year they were both annihilated by very small teams. Celtic by Braga, Rangers by Malmo
They have fallen down the pecking order so far this year that when it comes to the 3rd and Final round of qualifying they'll be facing teams like Schalke, Ajax, Arsenal, Shaktar etc.

In other words they haven't got a hope.

Rangers just didn't get beaten by Malmo, they were lucky not to lose six or so goals. And it wasn't just a blip either as they were pumped in qualifying for the Europa League by Maribor of the mighty nation of Slovenia.

Why do you think they shouldn't lose that tie? You can't live on reputation. Malmo and Maribor were a country mile better than them, and Rangers shouldn't have expected it to be an easy game.

Even if they had got through, it would have been the sticking plaster on a gaping wound. Almost every realistic fan realises niether team deserves European football.

Sorry Realist but here comes your bitterness towards the OF again.

They don't "deserve" European football? Utter nonsense. They win their league, they deserve the rewards attached to that.

Fair enough the results are too often shocking in Europe. But your wording that they don't "deserve" European football shows your standing on the OF.

They don't deserve European Football because everytime they get there they get utterley pumped.
They now are so bad they get pumped in the early rounds of qualifying and hence why the league is ranked so low by UEFA, they certainly don't deserve European football in the proper rounds, if they did, they wouldn't have to go through millions of qualifying rounds against the might of Malmo and Maribor.

I think it pointless debating restructuring until after we've moved to summer football. I just dont get all the arguments against summer football! Other countries do it so why cant we just copy them ffs?!! Hardly harms Scandinavian and Russian club and international teams does it??

At least move youth football to the summer. Why it follows the pro season is beyond me. Kids running about in winter temperatures trying to kick a ball over some mud is hardly conducive to technically good football. There is such a backwards attitude to not playing summer football in this country that annoys me more than anything else in the game.

The complaint regarding lack of investment in the SPL grates me as well. I wish clubs would just find their bloody own financial level to operate at and start producing players instead of buying. I dont believe the talent isnt there and summer football would help further. What scottish football lacks is the ability to develop talented players. So much focus in my team RFC has been on buying, scouting, trials etc. That is time and effort directed in the wrong place. More money definitely helps but only after a certain amount. Give Rangers £50m and they'll be fine. Give them 500k or £5m to spend and I dont think that amounts to any difference in playing level that cannot be achieved by proper coaching and team development. The majority of 'smaller' european teams that cost fractions of even a Hearts or Dundee Utd team continue to dump Scottish teams out of europe year after year. Its time we learned from them.

Lairdy, can't argue with any of that, only problem is that the Old Firm see themselves as a special case and somewhat bigger and more important than they are. They think they have a right to money, European football and everything else real teams get.
Until they grow up and take a reality check it won't get any better.

super_realist wrote:They don't deserve European Football because everytime they get there they get utterley pumped.
They now are so bad they get pumped in the early rounds of qualifying and hence why the league is ranked so low by UEFA, they certainly don't deserve European football in the proper rounds, if they did, they wouldn't have to go through millions of qualifying rounds against the might of Malmo and Maribor.

Again, utter tripe.

The prize for winning the league is European football. If they win the league, they deserve their prize.

Just because they then fail to perform at that level doesn't mean they don't deserve it. You can't say someone doesn't deserve something if they earn it. If they were handed their place in Europe by the powers that be without winning the league...then you could say they don't deserve it because they didn't earn it.

they certainly don't deserve European football in the proper rounds

And the fact that they "get pumped out" in the qualification rounds means they don't get to the "proper rounds" so I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say there.

Will a team from "the mighty nation of Slovenia" ever win the Champions League? Highly unlikely...so are you saying that they don't deserve it either? No you are basing this on your hatred of all things Old Firm/Scottish Football. Celtic are unlikely to make a mark in Europe, but to say they don't deserve it because of that is ludicrous.

I've said elsewhere that this is the ultimate reality check for Rangers. If we don't learn from this and end up returning to a predominately buying club then I'll struggle to remain a fan. I'm honestly not interested in watching journeymen foreigners playing for Glasgow Rangers.

Celtic, that's what you think, not what UEFA think. By winning the league, all you deserve is qualfication rounds. You have proven time and time again you don't deserve to get any further. That's what i'm saying.

The Old Firm in Europe proper would now be like Eddie the Eagle or that Nigerian Skier in the Olympics, horridly out of their depth and embarassing themselves.

Do European Qualification rounds not class as European football anymore?

Sorry, I must have missed that memo from UEFA. At the end of the day, by winning the league, or finishing in the correct position we deserve our chance at qualification. If we make it through qualification to later rounds, then we damn well deserve that too.

You might think we don't deserve European football...but that's what you think, not what UEFA think...otherwise we wouldn't even be entered in to the qualifying rounds.

Warrior,
I don't really class qualification as being Europe in the proper sense. for instance, when looking back on history on a year when you got knocked out in qualifying I wouldn't say it was a momentous evening in a clubs history.

The fact that as of 2012/13 only one Scottish team gets into qualifying for CL and one for EL from the league shows how far they have fallen, and the 2nd round of qualifying will probably be too much for them, let alone the third when they could face Arsenal, Shaktar, Ajax.

So it's no surprise that you hold up the qualifying rounds of the Europa League as some sort of badge of honour. Shows how far you have fallen though, and you probably still shell out the same money for your season ticket.

Am I holding it up as a badge of honour?? No. I'm stating a simple fact that Qulification is still European football and if we do enough to finish in a suitable league position then we deserve that shot.

European nights offer something different and they are exciting. It doesn't matter if you are against a team that has no prestige or against a team of the highest calibre. The excitement level is there. Obviously every fan wants their team to be involved in Europe for as long as possible, but I am not deluded enough to think we should be reaching and surpassing the group stages (Granted I know there are elements of the support that think if you haven't heard of a team then you should walk the tie). If we could sneak in to the group stages I would be delighted. If we could make it through to Europa League, I would be delighted. Especially if that offered a prolonged run...it's all extra revenue at the end of the day...and extra excitement for the fans.

Thats fair enough Warrior, I just think the "qualification" tag takes away from describing it as a true European night like you used to know.

Oh there is absolutely no doubt that it's not a patch on the European nights we have known in the past. Absolutely not.

But they are still something different from your standard SPL atmosphere...so the European nights, even though they are only qualification rounds, are something to look forward to. There is always the hope that we will break our run of shocking European games. Our away record is atrocious and until we get that sorted we will struggle and continue to make things harder for ourselves, even against teams that we should be performing against.

I'm not being purposely negative here, but I can't actually see a Scottish team getting through qualification for the foreseeable future.

I wouldn't say I disagree but I do still think surprises are possible. I think it depends entirely on the draw.

If you do the correct preparation work, scout the drawn opposition, have a couple of formations/tactics practiced that you can fall back on depending on the scenario you find yourself in, if you can get the team suitably motivated and the fans get properly behind the team then you might be able to cause a stir.

Might not be likely, but it is possible.

Just a bit to update this

For me there has to be one governing body that overlooks the entirety of Professional Football in Scotland, at this moment in time we have THREE ruling bodies with three seperate voices and that's simply two too many, if the SPL, SFA and SFL don't amalgamate then their has to be a structure put in place that at the very least brings the three unions together under the same banner for the greater good and hopeful rejuvenation of Scottish Football.

Starting with the Leagues, Scotland only has 42 Professional Football Clubs, while many argue that that figure is too high, that's an a argument for a different day, for me a big problem is that the figure of 42 is simply not big enough to sustain four Professional Leagues, I believe the path to the top division is far to long compared to the number of clubs we have, also, the lack of opportunity to enter the SPL is another major factor in the lack of interest in the SPL and the First Division, more opportunity for promotion and end of season Play-Off's must be implemented, clubs and fans want it, it's a no brainer really, it would attract fans, TV and advertising, the three main components every Football Club strives for.

Also, enlarging the league, again fans have expressed their desire numerous times to see the League's extended allowing more opportunity to see different games, players themselves have highlighted the three/four games a season against every club in the league alone as a major reason why they prefer a move to the Championship , the SPL however use the excuse that a 16 team league would cut the season by 8 games and also contradict the SKY deal that ridiculously states that their MUST be four Old Firm games per league season.

So in trying to implement SKY's Old Firm clause I believe I've came up with a solution to in my opinion improve the Scottish game from a cosmetic point of view and also give it a chance to really get some excitement back into it which hopefully in turn could bring back fans or introduce new fans, entice sponsorships and give our Leagues a far healthier outlook

Firstly, I'd have an SPL of 16 teams followed by a First Division of 16 teams and a Second Division of 10

The SPL would have teams face each other Home & Away to reach the 30 game point, at that stage the league would split into four sections, 1st-4th, 5th-8th, 9th-12th and 13th-16th

It must also be highlighted that the split will not effect any point total or goal difference, points won, goals for and against will be continued as normal.

Each team would then play the other teams in their individual sections Home & Away to take their final League Game tally to 36 games and if we go on the historical knowledge of the SPL that should also mean that we would get the Four Old Firm games (or Celtic vs any form of NewCo Rangers) that SKY have written into their contracts.

Now, in order to make this work I believe every section MUST have a consequence, the team who after 36 games finishes bottom of the top section (4th overall) would have a European Play-Off with the team that finished top of the second section (5th overall) and if we Automatically Relegate the bottom two clubs in the Fourth section (15th & 16th overall) we can then have a third Relegation place settled in a Play-Off between the team that finishes bottom of the Third section (12th overall) and the team who finishes third bottom of Fourth section (14th overall)

The team that finishes 13th overall would escape Relegation by virtue of finishing top of the Fourth section

Home & Away Play-Off's wouldn't be seen as overkill either in my opinion as both teams would only have met twice before in the league that particular season and their would be a big reward regarding the outcome of those particular matches so you have to expect their would be very decent interest from fans, sponsors and media

Demonstration

1. Celtic
2. Rangers (or NewCo)
3. Hearts
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
4. Dundee Utd
____________________________

5. Aberdeen
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
6. Motherwell
7. Hibernian
8. St Mirren
____________________________

9. St Johnstone
10. Falkirk
11. Dundee
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
12. Kilmarnock
____________________________

13. Inverness Caley Thistle
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
14. Ayr United
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
___________________________
15. Ross County
16. Dunfermline

At the end of the 36 game season league would be as follows

Champions - Celtic

European Qualification - Rangers & Hearts

European Play-Off - Dundee Utd vs Aberdeen

Automatic Relegation - Dunfermline & Ross County

Relegation Play-Off - Kilmarnock vs Ayr United
____________________________________

The First Division would be run in a similar manor with a few cosmetic differences regarding the end of season Promotion Play-Off's

Everything would run identically to the SPL until the 36th game, then clubs 3rd-6th would enter into the Play-Off's which would be the bottom two clubs from the First section (3rd & 4th) and the top two clubs from the second section (5th & 6th)

Team that finished 3rd would play Home & Away Play off with Team that finished 6th and Team that finished 4th would play Team that finished 5th. (which means they'd only face four times a season in the league at most anyway)

If teams 3 and 4 (or 5 & 6) win their Play-Off then they would meet 5 times on League duty but again I doubt that would have a negative impact on fans, sponsors or media due to the prize for succeeding in that final match

As far as Relegation is concerned it should be the same process as the SPL, bottom two clubs down (16th & 15th) and third bottom of the Fourth section (14th) plays bottom of the Third section (12th) with the team that finished 13th escaping relegation by virtue of finishing top of the Fourth section

Demonstration

1. Partick Thistle
2. Livingston
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
3. Hamilton
4. Morton
__________________________

5. Raith Rovers
6. Queen of the South
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
7. Cowdenbeath
8. Arbroath
__________________________

9. Dumbarton
10. Stenhousemuir
11. East Fife
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
12. Albion Rovers
__________________________

13. Forfar
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
14. Airdrie United
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
__________________________
15. Stirling Albion
16. Brechin City


End of the 36 League Game season would look like this

Champions - Partick Thistle

Promoted as Runners Up - Livingston

Promotion Play-Off's
SF1 Hamilton vs Queen of the South
SF2 Morton vs Raith Rovers
Winner of SF1 vs Winner of SF2

Automatic Relegation - Stirling Albion & Brechin City

Relegation Play-Off - Albion Rovers vs Airdrie United
____________________________________

The Second Division would be a bit more straight forward but I believe with a lot more potential for promotion it would up the interest in the league itself

League of 10 clubs playing each other four times, Home & Away twice, top two clubs promoted with teams that finish 3rd and 4th being entered into the Promotion Play-Off for the final Promotion place, one off game at a neutral venue , I'd also like to see an introduction of a pyramid system implemented using the East of Scotland League and the Highland League and even offering positions to the Junior clubs if they are interested and allowing the Bottom division in Scotland to be opened up for potential Relegation

Demonstration

1. Alloa
2. Queens Park
______________________
3. Stranraer
4. Clyde
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
5. Annan Athletic
6. Berwick Rangers
7. Peterhead
8. Elgin City
9. Montrose
10. East Stirling

Demonstration

Champions - Alloa

Promoted as Runners Up - Queens Park

Promotion Play-Off
Stranraer vs Clyde

I don't think a 16 team league is the answer. In fact I think that will make the situation much worse for a number of clubs in that the revenues/ money will be even more thinnly spread.

For example if the 12 SPL clubs currently get £15m in tv then an expansion to 16 clubs mean they now only get £11.25m. This would make those clubs trying to challenge the Old Firm weaker. There would be fewer games against the big teams meaning a fall in revenues from attendances. I really don't think Scotland is a big enough country to support a 16 team top flight.

The problem with Scottish football is that the non-Old Firm teams aren't strong enough.

Increasing the league doesn't fix the problem.

The more teams and games there are the easier it is for the Old Firm to dominate.

My proposals would be:-

1) Have two professional leagues then two semi-pro leagues. All divisions have 10 teams.

2) The 2nd to 4th tiers play each other four times, 36 games, between August and May. 2 up and 2 down from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th. 1 automatically and 1 through play offs.

3) SPL1 will take on the (old) Argentine structure in that there are two Championships per year. The first from August to December and the second from mid/late January to May. Each Championship will be 18 games. Ie they play each other home and away. European places will be determined firstly by Championship won and then by aggregate points over the two Championship (total points from August to May).

4) Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibernian, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Kilmarnock and Motherwell would become 'elite' clubs. This 'elite' status means these clubs along with the SFA will be the future of Scottish football. The 'elite' status would mean:-
- these eight clubs would be immune from relegation.
- they will all have a squad of 25 players.
- they will all have an academy squad of 20 players. 75% of which must be Scottish.
- the SFA (+funding) along with the club would have a strong youth/ grassroots development programme in their local area. Each club would also hold open trials each summer. Like PSV Eindhoven and Ajax do.
- the SFA, government and local councils would help in the renovation of these clubs stadiums to atleast 20,000 ensuring the future of the clubs and building towards a European Championship host bid.
- the SFA would also help these clubs attract big sponsors and in promoting the Scottish game.

The idea of the 'elite' clubs would be to have eight competitive teams instead of just two. If Scottish football is to have a future they need more competition to the Old Firm. Although a 14/ 16 team league would have more teams the money would be spread more thinnly. Making a few clubs stronger would be much better for Scottish football.

5) the eight 'elite' clubs academies would form and elite academy league insuring the under 18 play at a competitive level.

I don't expect the response to this to be very favourable but think this structure would greater improve Scottish football.

I don't think a 16 team league is the answer. In fact I think that will make the situation much worse for a number of clubs in that the revenues/ money will be even more thinnly spread.

For me that's the biggest problem, every club in the SPL wants change and wants an avenue of opportunity to improve, the majority of fans want a different league, current players talk of the monotony of our league... yet when push comes to shove talk is cheap as they aren't willing to see past their next contractual pay-cheque for what many believe is the greater good of the Scottish game, the SPL ain't nicknamed the Self Preservation League for nothing and the reluctance to open up the Leagues and give more teams opportunity (including their own) as it might put themselves at risk is what holds our game back.

For example if the 12 SPL clubs currently get £15m in tv then an expansion to 16 clubs mean they now only get £11.25m. This would make those clubs trying to challenge the Old Firm weaker. There would be fewer games against the big teams meaning a fall in revenues from attendances. I really don't think Scotland is a big enough country to support a 16 team top flight.

I don't really agree with this part to be honest, while it is true that more clubs would mean a bigger split of the cash I'm not so sure less games against the Old Firm would be as negative as some suggest or believe, from what I've read many fans of other clubs don't bother attending their clubs home games against the Old Firm and the home gate is usually down, now this is wiped out as the Old Firm take a great although dwindling away support, also, many like myself will choose to 'skip' an away day if we know we'll definitely have another away day at that ground later on in the season, I've skipped one at Easter Road, Pittodrie and Tyncastle already this season, however if we were only going their once a season every ticket would be sold out and the home fans would be more inclined to go to the game too for one game against Celtic or Rangers rather than the mundane two apiece we get now, also, with an initial 30 game season it means that clubs outwith the Old Firm only have 4 games to play against the Old Firm before the run in which gives them a greater chance to be closer to them in points leading into the business end of the season, for example Motherwell have had a fantastic season but so far have played the Old Firm five times and have lost five times, three of those times heavily

I also believe that very decent revenue is there for about 8 of our clubs if we give them something worth playing for, which is why I'd include end of season Play-Off's,

Hibs under Mowbray and Collins often got 17,000 at big home games, Hearts sell out Tyncastle when they go on runs at the higher end of the league, Aberdeen four years ago got a capacity 22,000 full house against Rangers and Bayern Munich and prove crowds and revenue can be generated, Dundee Utd have the potential to get 10,000+ attendances when they're pushing for success and Motherwell's last home gate was three thousand up on their last attendance after it was announced Rangers were in Administration and second place and a potential Champions League qualifer was definitely a possibility

The problem with Scottish football is that the non-Old Firm teams aren't strong enough.

Increasing the league doesn't fix the problem.

The more teams and games there are the easier it is for the Old Firm to dominate.

Again I disagree, like I said above, the less games played against the Old Firm gives 'smaller' clubs an opportunity to get closer to them, also, with a bigger league gives clubs slightly more breathing space to blood younger players and stick with them and as a regular attendee to Celtic games, I can say that historically Celtic have found it easier to play against bigger clubs and have often struggled with teams they're expected to beat

My proposals would be:-

1) Have two professional leagues then two semi-pro leagues. All divisions have 10 teams.

2) The 2nd to 4th tiers play each other four times, 36 games, between August and May. 2 up and 2 down from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th. 1 automatically and 1 through play offs.

For me that's just the same as what we have currently or at least as close as possible without it being identical and the fans down in those divisions don't like it, we must listen to the fans, for me four tiers is far to many for forty clubs and doesn't install any form of ambition for anyone below the First Division

3) SPL1 will take on the (old) Argentine structure in that there are two Championships per year. The first from August to December and the second from mid/late January to May. Each Championship will be 18 games. Ie they play each other home and away. European places will be determined firstly by Championship won and then by aggregate points over the two Championship (total points from August to May).

I'm intrigued by this idea, I don't think I like it to be honest as it's just the same old same old four games a season against everyone that absolutely no-one or at least the very bare minimum want, however the overall winners, how is it decided? Would it be winners of the first Championship vs the winners of the Second Championship or would it be aggregate points? a team could finish 2nd in both Championships to different clubs, have an overall better point tally than the other two and not win the title, that's a strange one to get my head around

4) Celtic, Rangers, Hearts, Hibernian, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Kilmarnock and Motherwell would become 'elite' clubs. This 'elite' status means these clubs along with the SFA will be the future of Scottish football. The 'elite' status would mean:-
- these eight clubs would be immune from relegation.
- they will all have a squad of 25 players.
- they will all have an academy squad of 20 players. 75% of which must be Scottish.
- the SFA (+funding) along with the club would have a strong youth/ grassroots development programme in their local area. Each club would also hold open trials each summer. Like PSV Eindhoven and Ajax do.
- the SFA, government and local councils would help in the renovation of these clubs stadiums to atleast 20,000 ensuring the future of the clubs and building towards a European Championship host bid.
- the SFA would also help these clubs attract big sponsors and in promoting the Scottish game.

What makes these specific clubs 'elite' clubs? I also have absolutely no interest in making clubs immune, that for me definitely won't encourage the fans back, look at Rangers, they've had their two best non Old Firm crowds in years recently and that's due to the clubs very existance being at stake, two things bring bigger clubs crowds back, success or the threat of relegation, fans at those points see themselves as integral components in any future success the club have be it winning trophies or just survival, I do agree though that a squad of 25 would be better, in my opinion there is simply no need to have more than that number on the books anyway, I'd also like to see a financial fair-play initiative that would see clubs be legally bound to spend no more than 60% of their income.

In what way could or would the SFA help create better sponsorship within the game or these clubs? I simply don't believe they have the talent or the pull for us to believe they have that level of sway or the contacts, if they did I'm sure we would be in a better financial position than what we are currently

I do agree that our clubs should have grass roots development programs, I'd also like to see the youth football season moved from it's original schedule to allow it to run from March-November, this would allow younger players to develop on the best pitches in the best our weather can be and it also allows them to attend games in the winter to see their favourite players in the flesh while they're in their off season

The idea of the 'elite' clubs would be to have eight competitive teams instead of just two. If Scottish football is to have a future they need more competition to the Old Firm. Although a 14/ 16 team league would have more teams the money would be spread more thinnly. Making a few clubs stronger would be much better for Scottish football.

I really can't see any of these clubs becoming 'elite' clubs to be honest and making the league smaller will only serve to show the fans opinions don't count for anything, I can't see it spiking interest in these clubs, for me it's far to similar an idea thar has seen us detached from the SFL, the 10 top member clubs broke away, fromed an 'elite' league of 10 that was going to re-structure the landscape of the game in Scotland, it didn't and it raised to 12 with the ludicrous 1 up 1 down scheme, hearing plans of an 'elite' 8 scare the life out of me when I've seen first hand what an 'elite' 10 and 12 has done to our game

5) the eight 'elite' clubs academies would form and elite academy league insuring the under 18 play at a competitive level.

I can only really speak from Celtic's point of view but Celtic have one of the best run youth set ups in the UK and are heavily involved in those Champions League styled tournaments throughout the season and quite often get positive results and progression in terms of players improvement, from what I've been told they believe the youth set up in Scotland while it could be better is of a pretty high standard

I don't expect the response to this to be very favourable but think this structure would greater improve Scottish football.

As you can tell, we have very different views on the best way forward, while I don't agree with a lot it in no way means your wrong, I like how well thought out some of your ideas are even if I don't fully agree/understand on a few things, cheers for the reply, it was an interesting take on things

I quite like the idea of two seperate leagues either side of a winter break.
Play offs between the top teams of each league for Europe places would be good.

Super_Realist has suddenly disappeard since The Rangers beat Celtc, wonder why, diddy team supporter, my arse.

https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img233/9638/92904258.png

I really like the concept of two SPL teams of 12.
Relegated team from Div1.
11th team in Div 1 in playoffs with top 3 teams in Div 2

Feeder leagues into the structure.
Team 12 should be Dunfermline.
Newco 'placed' into league 1 with a 10 points deduction.

Why Dunfermline? Why not Dundee? Dundee are a far bigger club than Dunfermline and Dunfermline shouldn't be rewarded for finishing last