Haye vs Chisora

by Adam D Sun 19 Feb 2012, 10:02 am

First topic message reminder :

I am sure we all know by know of the ugly scenes that occured post fight last night.

However, lets fast forward a few months and run a poll of what happens to these two next.

I have put up two polls here - the first option I want you to choose from is what the outcome is, should this fight ever happen.

The second poll is about what you think will happen (as in will the fight take place)

Over to you...

by The Galveston Giant Mon 20 Feb 2012, 9:40 am

I don't understand the big problem to be honest they get paid to punch each other in the face. Lennox Lewis was involved in a few brawls outside the ring i can't remember everyone being disgusted with him.

by mystiroakey Mon 20 Feb 2012, 9:41 am

lewis was a winner! tis the difference

by The Galveston Giant Mon 20 Feb 2012, 9:43 am

What difference does that make, his brawl with Rahman was after he lost to him.

by SugarRayRussell (PBK) Mon 20 Feb 2012, 9:44 am

Were Morales and Barrera not involved in a scrap at a presser or weigh in?

by **hampo17** Mon 20 Feb 2012, 9:45 am

Haven't seen footage of the Lewis brawl, but the fact there where weapons involved and Del shouting I'm going to shoot you may be why the BBoC are more concerned.

by Rowley Mon 20 Feb 2012, 9:48 am

Both have previous offences Hampo, Haye with the tshirt and gang r**e comment, Chisora with the biting, the slap at the weigh in, not to mention the domestic abuse conviction which one would have to imagine the board would not have been over the moon with. Have to think previous conduct will be a consideration.

Given Chisora received a six month ban for the biting and that appears to have done little to nothing to improve his behaviour you have to think, given his general conduct over the weekend he is looking at quite a severe punishment.

by **hampo17** Mon 20 Feb 2012, 9:51 am

Yeah was talking to a few friends who knew nothing about Chisora, they wheren't at all shocked when I told them he had done stupid things before.

by azania Mon 20 Feb 2012, 10:48 am

The point is manos, that all those guys who "gave up on boxing" will tune in to watch Haye and Chisora fight whoever they want to fight. Yes it wasn't the best advert for boxing, but it will sell boxing. This is fighting not golf or bowls.

People want to see a genuine grudge fight. People want to see fighters fight within an inch of their lives and show immense bravery etc etc etc. It may sound harsh or sickening, but we are reaching a stage in society where we want more and more to satisfy blood lust I believe.

Boxing provides that blood lust in a way football and other sports do not.

by azania Mon 20 Feb 2012, 10:49 am

The Galveston Giant wrote:What difference does that make, his brawl with Rahman was after he lost to him.

He's british and beating up on Americans. Brits love that and will forgive anyone for that.

South Africans couldn't care less Cool

by azania Mon 20 Feb 2012, 10:51 am

SugarRayRussell (PBK) wrote:Were Morales and Barrera not involved in a scrap at a presser or weigh in?

Yep, that killed boxing. A disgrace and other adjectives. Point is that people forgot it and went to watch them fight. I'd add that more saw them fight because of the brawl.

People should climb off that high horse.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 20 Feb 2012, 10:53 am

"He's British and beating up Americans..Brits love that"

You're either telling everybody what White Americans think or what Brits are thinking..

You're so patronising it's almost offensive....

Take your hate somewhere else..

by manos de piedra Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:12 am

azania wrote:The point is manos, that all those guys who "gave up on boxing" will tune in to watch Haye and Chisora fight whoever they want to fight. Yes it wasn't the best advert for boxing, but it will sell boxing. This is fighting not golf or bowls.

People want to see a genuine grudge fight. People want to see fighters fight within an inch of their lives and show immense bravery etc etc etc. It may sound harsh or sickening, but we are reaching a stage in society where we want more and more to satisfy blood lust I believe.

Boxing provides that blood lust in a way football and other sports do not.

How do you know this? Are you saying that someone who publicly says that they have lost all respect for boxing and wont be tuning in is in fact going to do the exact opposite? Every person does not happen to fit the profile you proclaim. What is any of this above based on?

You understand there are people out there that dont like boxing, think its wrong, have no interest in it etc. It cant be covered up behind loose generalisation of society and buzz lines like "controversy sells", "money talks" etc

I have no reason to believe that someone who proclaims to be disillusioned or disgusted with Haye/Chisoras antics is in actual fact the complete opposite and will eagerly be tuning in next time or becoming a fan of boxing.

What happened at the press conferance will create negative headlines, appeal to some, and put others off. In a couple of weeks the hysteria will die down and there will be some other scandal making the news. I am happy to acknowledge this. I think you overestimate how this will reverberate with the casual sports reader. The fact Chisora probably wont fight again for over year and Haye possibly at all doesnt help. It gets hardcore boxing fans talking but I believe its overall impact will be minimal in terms of new fans and the overall image of boxing will be hurt. Amongst hardcore boxing fans Chisora might generate more interest but not amongst the general public.

When I hear Contador or someone is suspended sure I read the headline. It doesnt get me tuning into any races though and nor am I eagerly anticipating his return to cycling. I couldnt care less because its not a sport I follow and the negative headlines caused by the controversy hasnt done anthing to change that. If anything the sport appeals that little bit less to me now. Rightly or wrongly in my ignorance of the sport the impression it gives off to me is the sport is hurt by drugs and cheating. I dont believe I am alone in the universe in this way of thinking.

by mystiroakey Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:16 am

manos de piedra wrote:
azania wrote:The point is manos, that all those guys who "gave up on boxing" will tune in to watch Haye and Chisora fight whoever they want to fight. Yes it wasn't the best advert for boxing, but it will sell boxing. This is fighting not golf or bowls.

People want to see a genuine grudge fight. People want to see fighters fight within an inch of their lives and show immense bravery etc etc etc. It may sound harsh or sickening, but we are reaching a stage in society where we want more and more to satisfy blood lust I believe.

Boxing provides that blood lust in a way football and other sports do not.

How do you know this? Are you saying that someone who publicly says that they have lost all respect for boxing and wont be tuning in is in fact going to do the exact opposite? Every person does not happen to fit the profile you proclaim. What is any of this above based on?

You understand there are people out there that dont like boxing, think its wrong, have no interest in it etc. It cant be covered up behind loose generalisation of society and buzz lines like "controversy sells", "money talks" etc

I have no reason to believe that someone who proclaims to be disillusioned or disgusted with Haye/Chisoras antics is in actual fact the complete opposite and will eagerly be tuning in next time or becoming a fan of boxing.

What happened at the press conferance will create negative headlines, appeal to some, and put others off. In a couple of weeks the hysteria will die down and there will be some other scandal making the news. I am happy to acknowledge this. I think you overestimate how this will reverberate with the casual sports reader. The fact Chisora probably wont fight again for over year and Haye possibly at all doesnt help. It gets hardcore boxing fans talking but I believe its overall impact will be minimal in terms of new fans and the overall image of boxing will be hurt. Amongst hardcore boxing fans Chisora might generate more interest but not amongst the general public.

When I hear Contador or someone is suspended sure I read the headline. It doesnt get me tuning into any races though and nor am I eagerly anticipating his return to cycling. I couldnt care less because its not a sport I follow and the negative headlines caused by the controversy hasnt done anthing to change that. If anything the sport appeals that little bit less to me now. Rightly or wrongly in my ignorance of the sport the impression it gives off to me is the sport is hurt by drugs and cheating. I dont believe I am alone in the universe in this way of thinking.

manos you dont understand about the power of suggestion- just getting boxing in the media, getting it talked about is all thats needed- 100%- you have to understand that boxing fans are on the whole are passive fans, they like boxing but only watcbh the big fights- when there is no big fights out there- one has to be created- and that is what is going on right know! this is all the ground work, people will tune in to something that shouldnt be a big fight!

by Rowley Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:19 am

One other thing worth asking is are the kind of people who would get into a sport solely because they see two guys fighting at a press conference and threatening to shoot each other the kind of fans a sport should want to attract?

by azania Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:25 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"He's British and beating up Americans..Brits love that"

You're either telling everybody what White Americans think or what Brits are thinking..

You're so patronising it's almost offensive....

Take your hate somewhere else..

How much longer do I have to put up with this big crying child stalking me. If he could understand the written word I wouldn't mind. Fact that he cant does bother me.

Shoo.

by Rowley Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:26 am

azania wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"He's British and beating up Americans..Brits love that"

You're either telling everybody what White Americans think or what Brits are thinking..

You're so patronising it's almost offensive....

Take your hate somewhere else..

How much longer do I have to put up with this big crying child stalking me. If he could understand the written word I wouldn't mind. Fact that he cant does bother me.

Shoo.

USE THE FOE BUTTON

by **HumanWindmill** Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:29 am

This stops, and it stops right now.

The majority of members here are heartily sick and tired of the juvenile bickering between you two. If you can't damned well grow up and debate like adults then take it to PMs.

DON'T follow the tried, tested and tedious route of trying to secure the last word. I will delete any posts which represent a continuance of this.

For Heaven's sake stop being so selfish and consider the needs of other members as well of those charged with the responsibility to keep order.

by azania Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:29 am

Boxing fans wiwll tune. The casual person who doesn't have a strong opiniion about boxing will tune in also. I'm guessing that they are saying that in the heat of the moment. When the hype machine starts they will tune in.

More people tuned in when Ben Johnson returned. Mainly they wanted to see if he was any good. But they tuned in. Arenas were sold out etc.

by Rowley Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:36 am

I have no intention fo reading through every thread you and Truss have contributed on to see who started it, neither me Windy, Union or Oxy have either the time or inclination as we would actually like to contribute to the odd thread as users rather than mods.

What we do see though is that in every thread you and truss lock horns it it ends in name calling and insults. We have suggested on numerous occasions you both learn to play nice to no avail, I am suggesting you use the foe button because given it is clear you can't sort this out like adults the foe button is the only option left beyond one of the moderation team sorting the problem, and I am sure you can work out what that will entail.

by manos de piedra Mon 20 Feb 2012, 11:37 am

azania wrote:Boxing fans wiwll tune. The casual person who doesn't have a strong opiniion about boxing will tune in also. I'm guessing that they are saying that in the heat of the moment. When the hype machine starts they will tune in.

More people tuned in when Ben Johnson returned. Mainly they wanted to see if he was any good. But they tuned in. Arenas were sold out etc.

I respect your point of view and I appreciate that its out there. I just dont think everyone shares it or follows that formula.

I expect by the time Chisora serves his ban, the casual fan that read about the incident will have long moved on. Chisora has raised his profile among followers that already follow the sport. He will get more people tuning in to his own personal fights. Of this I have no doubt. But these willl be existing boxing fans. So he has raised his own profile. But in the great wide world the image of boxing has been harmed and I dont think Chisora/Hayes scrap will have any overly positive net result and has the potential to have a negative one. There is a legetimate reason it has been condemned by boxing authorities and others.

by azania Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:05 pm

manos de piedra wrote:
azania wrote:Boxing fans wiwll tune. The casual person who doesn't have a strong opiniion about boxing will tune in also. I'm guessing that they are saying that in the heat of the moment. When the hype machine starts they will tune in.

More people tuned in when Ben Johnson returned. Mainly they wanted to see if he was any good. But they tuned in. Arenas were sold out etc.

I respect your point of view and I appreciate that its out there. I just dont think everyone shares it or follows that formula.

I expect by the time Chisora serves his ban, the casual fan that read about the incident will have long moved on. Chisora has raised his profile among followers that already follow the sport. He will get more people tuning in to his own personal fights. Of this I have no doubt. But these willl be existing boxing fans. So he has raised his own profile. But in the great wide world the image of boxing has been harmed and I dont think Chisora/Hayes scrap will have any overly positive net result and has the potential to have a negative one. There is a legetimate reason it has been condemned by boxing authorities and others.

That's where the hype machine should kick in. Its then up to the promoters to do their job. The casual fan will remember the brawling, spitting and slap and tune in to see what he does not. He is now known in USA. I had a call from a friend from USA asking who this nutter is. His profile has been raised and also he does have some talent and an exciting style.

Of course his actions will be condemned but I can assure you that Warren is now rubbing his hands and counting the ££££ notes he will earn through Chisora.

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:06 pm

I think Chisora should be forced to serve his 12 week sentence that was suspended, he was openly violent and threatening in public. He threatened Haye by telling him he was coming to "give him 2 slaps" and I think shown by the state of Adam Booth (long time coming tbh - I don't like him) his entourage resulted in violence.

Chisora by rights should be banned from Boxing for a year. Gives Haye plenty of time to sell us all how much he'll smash Vitali to bits.

Adam Booth and Haye have both said that they have already accepted pretty much what was laid on the table to fight Vitali, but Burt Boenter has been telling Vitali that Haye isn't negotiating. Pretty sure he is to be honest.

Vitali said himself that he really wants to knock Haye out. He doesn't care about the fact the Haye fight won't earn him much money. He's wanted to knock him out for years now.

This is what will happen. Chisora will get his licence revoked for 6 - 12 months. Haye will fight Vitali and probably lose. If he wins, he'll defend against Chisora in November, headlined "redemption" or "payback" or something like that.

In respect of their actions, I think its great. Chisora is a dirty little thug/gangsaaaa who has had a limited career - found out at World Level to have nothing to give. Haye is a brash loudmouth who can't perform at heavyweight.

But everyone is talking about HW boxing again. Good or bad, its got the word boxing on peoples lips.

I want to say Frank Warren is a disgrace. All he sees are pound signs. Hate him.

by **ShahenshahG** Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:14 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I think Chisora should be forced to serve his 12 week sentence that was suspended, he was openly violent and threatening in public. He threatened Haye by telling him he was coming to "give him 2 slaps" and I think shown by the state of Adam Booth (long time coming tbh - I don't like him) his entourage resulted in violence.

Chisora by rights should be banned from Boxing for a year. Gives Haye plenty of time to sell us all how much he'll smash Vitali to bits.

Adam Booth and Haye have both said that they have already accepted pretty much what was laid on the table to fight Vitali, but Burt Boenter has been telling Vitali that Haye isn't negotiating. Pretty sure he is to be honest.

Vitali said himself that he really wants to knock Haye out. He doesn't care about the fact the Haye fight won't earn him much money. He's wanted to knock him out for years now.

This is what will happen. Chisora will get his licence revoked for 6 - 12 months. Haye will fight Vitali and probably lose. If he wins, he'll defend against Chisora in November, headlined "redemption" or "payback" or something like that.

In respect of their actions, I think its great. Chisora is a dirty little thug/gangsaaaa who has had a limited career - found out at World Level to have nothing to give. Haye is a brash loudmouth who can't perform at heavyweight.

But everyone is talking about HW boxing again. Good or bad, its got the word boxing on peoples lips.

I want to say Frank Warren is a disgrace. All he sees are pound signs. Hate him.

Haye threw the first punch then fled the authorities - hes going to get bummed

by manos de piedra Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:18 pm

The BBBC have said they have not ruled out lifetimes bans. I doubt it will get that far but it shows the seriousness with which they view it. Chisora could also have his suspended sentance revoked and have to do jail time.

by Rowley Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:20 pm

The difficulty is Manos one of precedent. I know their is not a universal body such as FIFA in boxing but Tyson did not get life for biting Holy's ear, Judah did not get life for throwing a stool at a ref, both arguably worse offences than what we saw at the weekend.

by trottb Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:21 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I think Chisora should be forced to serve his 12 week sentence that was suspended, he was openly violent and threatening in public. He threatened Haye by telling him he was coming to "give him 2 slaps" and I think shown by the state of Adam Booth (long time coming tbh - I don't like him) his entourage resulted in violence.

Fail to see how the British authorities can punish him for a crime, in which he is not being charged for, that happened in another country. Also the state of Booth was a direct result of being clobbered around the head by Haye with a tripod, so nothing to do with Chisoras entourage..

by manos de piedra Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:23 pm

rowley wrote:The difficulty is Manos one of precedent. I know their is not a universal body such as FIFA in boxing but Tyson did not get life for biting Holy's ear, Judah did not get life for throwing a stool at a ref, both arguably worse offences than what we saw at the weekend.

I agree I dont think they can ban him for life. It would be a disgrace if somebody like Margarito only got a year for loaded wraps but Chisora got a lifetime ban. Do think they will look to make something of an example of him though and it the point was more to do with those suggesting this was either a big staged WWF style set up or going to do Chisoras career the world of good.

by **Fists of Fury** Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:24 pm

Jesus christ it is crazy how easily many people are swayed. Haye loses a decision to the best heavyweight since Lewis and people suddenly think Chisora would flatten him? Get real, guys.

by azania Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:30 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Jesus christ it is crazy how easily many people are swayed. Haye loses a decision to the best heavyweight since Lewis and people suddenly think Chisora would flatten him? Get real, guys.

I picked Chisora because a fighter of his style, strength and durability is all wrong for Haye. Haye is the superior boxer but Chis has the edge as a heavyweight. Haye simply is not strong enough to keep him at bay. Plus he is not busy enough either.

by **ShahenshahG** Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:42 pm

Haye didnt just lose - he ran away and his potshot style doesnt work. He doesnt throw as often as chisora and chisora has a solid chin. Still have haye winning but those saying chisora could win are fairly justified in doing so.

by Adam D Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:57 pm

I love how the "steel Cage match" option is beating the "nothing eventful happens and the match goes ahead" option Laugh

It seems pretty evenly matched on outcome - Haye slightly ahead

by The Galveston Giant Mon 20 Feb 2012, 12:58 pm

I hadn't noticed the Steel cage match option, they could have bottles and camera tripods hanging above the ring.

by OasisBFC Mon 20 Feb 2012, 5:39 pm

IF it was to go ahead, i see the ref stopping it in haye's favour. maybe del is stopped on his feet.

by Guest Mon 20 Feb 2012, 5:40 pm

haye would win on points IMO.

by **oxring** Mon 20 Feb 2012, 10:26 pm

In the UK - Haye wins by a stoppage.

In the states - Chisora might edge a decision.

Judges in the UK are FAR too quick to leap in and stop fights - if Haye could freeze Chisora and unleash a quickfire barrage of punches - in the UK, most refs jump in. The Audley stoppage, for instance - was premature (and pathetic - and I readily admit - it wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway).

In the US, where referees try to avoid stopping the fight unless one of the 2 contenders is actually in imminent danger of sudden death - Chisora's workrate (which is always appreciated stateside) - could see him take a controversial split.

by azania Mon 20 Feb 2012, 10:29 pm

oxring wrote:In the UK - Haye wins by a stoppage.

In the states - Chisora might edge a decision.

Judges in the UK are FAR too quick to leap in and stop fights - if Haye could freeze Chisora and unleash a quickfire barrage of punches - in the UK, most refs jump in. The Audley stoppage, for instance - was premature (and pathetic - and I readily admit - it wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway).

In the US, where referees try to avoid stopping the fight unless one of the 2 contenders is actually in imminent danger of sudden death - Chisora's workrate (which is always appreciated stateside) - could see him take a controversial split.

The Harrison stoppage was well timed. Would you want to sit through another minute of that 'fight'? The ref did us all a favour.

by **oxring** Mon 20 Feb 2012, 10:40 pm

azania wrote:
oxring wrote:In the UK - Haye wins by a stoppage.

In the states - Chisora might edge a decision.

Judges in the UK are FAR too quick to leap in and stop fights - if Haye could freeze Chisora and unleash a quickfire barrage of punches - in the UK, most refs jump in. The Audley stoppage, for instance - was premature (and pathetic - and I readily admit - it wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway).

In the US, where referees try to avoid stopping the fight unless one of the 2 contenders is actually in imminent danger of sudden death - Chisora's workrate (which is always appreciated stateside) - could see him take a controversial split.

The Harrison stoppage was well timed. Would you want to sit through another minute of that 'fight'? The ref did us all a favour.

By that logic - stopping it after the first or second would have been fair. When it was clear that Audley was too scared to throw a punch.

You know what I mean though. Audley legs hadn't really gone - he had at least another minute of pummeling in him - and if it hadn't been Audley (ie - someone who was actively trying to win) - I'd actually feel a bit sorry for them that the fight was stopped - because they might have gone on to come back into the fight.

As it was Audley - he wasn't going to try and come back and no-one wants to see a guy receive a dangerous beating.

by azania Mon 20 Feb 2012, 10:42 pm

I get your point regarding Audley.

Regarding Haye/Chisora. I cant see Haye stopping him.

by The genius of PBF Mon 20 Feb 2012, 10:45 pm

oxring wrote:
azania wrote:
oxring wrote:In the UK - Haye wins by a stoppage.

In the states - Chisora might edge a decision.

Judges in the UK are FAR too quick to leap in and stop fights - if Haye could freeze Chisora and unleash a quickfire barrage of punches - in the UK, most refs jump in. The Audley stoppage, for instance - was premature (and pathetic - and I readily admit - it wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway).

In the US, where referees try to avoid stopping the fight unless one of the 2 contenders is actually in imminent danger of sudden death - Chisora's workrate (which is always appreciated stateside) - could see him take a controversial split.

The Harrison stoppage was well timed. Would you want to sit through another minute of that 'fight'? The ref did us all a favour.

By that logic - stopping it after the first or second would have been fair. When it was clear that Audley was too scared to throw a punch.

You know what I mean though. Audley legs hadn't really gone - he had at least another minute of pummeling in him - and if it hadn't been Audley (ie - someone who was actively trying to win) - I'd actually feel a bit sorry for them that the fight was stopped - because they might have gone on to come back into the fight.

As it was Audley - he wasn't going to try and come back and no-one wants to see a guy receive a dangerous beating.

Given that Audley had suffered a concussion I think the fight was stopped at the right time.

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