The Arsenal experiment

Clearly there are a lot of problems for Arsenal right now. They're perilously close to not qualifying for the Champions League for the first time in 15 years, they are out of both domestic cups, and were thrashed by AC Milan effectively dumping them out of Europe. The team is just a shadow of the Arsenal teams of old, even two or three years ago the team looked a lot more dangerous than it does right now. Injuries have played their part, but the facts are that the team needs a major overhaul.

Now, I know money doesn't solve anything, but the Arsenal experiment is this. You're in charge of fixing the team, you can offload players, you can bring players in, but obviously be realistic. Let's say you're given £60 million to spend + whatever you make from sales. Rebuild the Arsenal side.

This is my go:

Out:
Andrey Arshavin
Tomas Rosicky
Marouane Chamakh
Sebastian Squilliaci
Manuel Almunia
Theo Walcott

In:
Klaas Jan Hunterlaar
Fabrico Coloccini
Leighton Baines
Eden Hazard

I think that's fairly realistic. I reluctantly sold Theo Walcott, because I still think the raw talent is there and he still has the potential to be a top player, but I think he'd be able to be sold for quite a bit, bumping up the amount of money to spend, to bring in Huntelaar and Hazard. Get rid of the deadwood who are no doubt on high wages, and then bring in players that can improve the side.

The main problems for Arsenal are a shaky defence which would hopefully be solved by Coloccini and Hazard, Coloccini is a solid defender who wouldn't cost a lot and has proven he can cope with the pace of the league unlike Per Mertesacker. Leighton Baines would love the left back problem that has been an issue at Arsenal since Ashley Cole left, equally good at attacking and defending, as well as making up the English quota, Baines is perfect.

Midfield is actually quite good, a lot of good passers, but it's quite slow and not a lot of penetration, hopefully Hazard would offer that on the wings. His pace and ability to go past a man will be a big improvement on Walcott or Arshavin, he also has a good shot on him so will hopefully add a few more goals as well.

Up front, Arsenal have Robin Van Persie, but as hard as he tries he can't always carry the team. Klass Jan Huntelaar, whether as back-up, or partner to Van Persie would be perfect, as he offers something different, he can hold the ball up well and is a class finisher. He's also Dutch so will hopefully connect well with Van Persie. I can see Huntelaar playing further up the pitch with Van Persie dropping deeper so he can get involved in the game more as it is clear he wants to do.

------------------Szczesny------------------
Sagna-----Coloccini-----Vermaelen---Baines

------------------Song---------------------
----------Arteta-------Wilshere

Hazard--------------------------Van Persie

---------------Huntelaar------------------

Subs:
Fabianski
Gervinho
Gibbs
Mertesacker
Ramsay
Chamberlain
Coquelin

That's just one formation I think they could play.

Have a go at the Arsenal experiment.

---------------------------Szczney------------------------
Sagna----------verminator-------Kosielney-----Baines
-------------------------------Song-----------------------
------------------------Ramsey---Wishire--------------
Hazard---------------------------------------------Chambo
-------------------------Captain Vantastic----------------

Subs
Best
Forhead
Fabianski
Gibbs
Merte
Coq
Arteta

i think signing leon best would be a good move, chamak or whoever he is is a useless back-up, best would give arsenal not only a good back-up who has proven he has playedin the prem, but someone who can also partner RVP. Dont see the problem with kos i seem to like him, agree 100% on Baines and Hazard, but think Chambo needs to start, even at his age looks better than Wallcott and Forhead

I think attracting the likes of Hunterlaar and Hazard would be highly unlikely if they fail to get 4th spot.

Wenger needs to go. Unfortunately he now seems to have a team that mirrors his own character i.e. weak and lacking in courage............

Feel sorry for Arsenal fans, because Wenger has dismantled a really great team and replaced it bit by bit with players(some) who lack character.........

Choosing Fabregas and Van Persie as his last 2 captains also sends out the wrong message as neither man is a leader...................

I listen to Wengers post match analysis and I lose belief in him. He doesn't seem to talk a lot of sense. Hence, I think he needs to go (or be kicked upstairs?). However, maybe success is just around the corner (?) and the next manager might be Benetez (shudder?).

thats the problem though. A lot of people are saying its time for him to go, but the truth is there isn't a great deal of replacements. Personally I would love to see Moyes given a chance at a club like Arsenal. He has run Everton really well on not a great deal of money and no disrespect to Everton it's about time he was given a chance at a club who can potentially challenge for the honours season after season.

Moyes would sort the defence out I reckon, despite some of the performances I've seen, Moyes does usually keep his defence in check.

As for signings, that would all depend on where Arsenal finish. If they don't get top 4 I wouldn't expect Huntelaar or Hazard to be in a rush to sign for them. I like Crimeys idea of bring in Collocini and Baines or if Newcastle don't sell the Jageilka along with Baines.

I think I'd stick with Walcott, he'd add to the English quota in the squad and can still be a very good player, he just needs to get that consistency. They need somebody in that midfield to break up play and boss a midfield, for me Song isn't the guy for that, Daniele De Rossi would have been perfect especially on a free but he's just signed a contract extension at Roma. Up top they need to get rid of Chamakh and Gervinho, don't rate either and maybe try and offload one of them in a bid for Demba Ba

my 11 would be

Szczesny
Sagna
Collocini/Jageilka
Vermaelan
Baines
new midfielder
Wilshire
Arteta
Chamberlain (wide right)
Van Persie (wide left)
Demba Ba

I don't feel any of the transfer targets are over the top even if Arsenal fail to qualify for the Champions League, but they do need that midfielder but as I say none spring to mind at the minute

Quite strange leak, I did the same too this morning and choose a few of the same players, Hazard, Huntelaar and Baines

I think Arsenal need to do what Liverpool did when Dalglish took over and sign a few players for the first team, they need some experiance, I'd be looking to see them spend the best part of £100m although I'd look to see them sell enough to generate about £40m+ of that £100m

Outs:
Theo Walcott - £12m
Nicklas Bendtner - £10m
Marouane Chamakh - £7m
Mikel Arteta - £6.5m
Andrei Arshavan - £4m
Abou Diaby - £4m
Johan Djourou - £3m
Park Chu-Young - £2m
Tomáš Rosický - £1m
Sébastien Squillaci - Free
Manuel Almunia - Free
Yossi Benayoun - Loan Termination

Total - £ 49.5m

Ins :
Eden Hazard - £25m
Luis Suarez - £20m
Neven Subotić - £18m
Klaas-Jan Huntelaar - £15m
Nigel de Jong - £8m
Leighton Baines - £8m
Frank Lampard - Free

Total - £94m

Gk's: 1- Szczęsny, 21- Fabianski
RB's: 2- Sagna, 12- Jenkinson
LB's: 3- Baines, 13- Gibbs
CB's: 5- Vermaelen, 6- Subotic, 15- Koscielny, 23- Mertesacker
DM's: 17- Song, 4- de Jong, 25- Frimpong
CM's: 8- Lampard, 19- Wilshire, 16-Ramsey
AM's: 14- Hazard, 11- Oxlade-Chamberlain, 20- Santos
ST's: 10- Van Persie, 7- Suarez, 9-
Huntelaar, 18- Gervinho

.................... Szczesny

Sagna .. Subotic .. Vermaelen .. Baines

...................... De Jong

........... Hazard ........... Wilshire

.. Van Persie .. Huntelaar .... Suarez
_____________________________________

.................... Szezesny

Sagna .. Subotic .. Vermaelen .. Baines

............... Song .... De Jong

Chaimberlin .... Lampard ......... Hazard

.................... Van Persie

I think Fellaini from Everton is the player Arsenal need. He would give them substance in the midfield, is good in the air and can play a bit too. He may pick up a few red cards but that's the risk with his type of player.

For midfield I'd like to see them sign Nigel de Jong and maybe even Frank Lampard on a free, think Lampard would offer top experiance for a year or two and de Jong is an enforcer they are badly lacking

I also think Huntelaar would be a top signing, found his shooting boots again in Germany and an International team mate of Van Persie, I'd also like to see them sign another top striker and that would be Luis Suarez, I think if they got there money back Liverpool would deal, just to much controversy involving him which has undermined what the club are trying to achieve

I'd be looking for massive changes at Arsenal in the Summer, some that would require a bit of extra totty to be spent, a statement of intent, they need to be ruthless

I was going to mention Nevan Subotic as well Gaffer but I can see United signing him in a double swoop for him and Gotze, I know there's interest for both players

Fellaini could be a good shout actually Lorus, like you say he'll pick up a few cards but at least he might make an impact on the game doing it unlike Song

I think we can all spend time thinking about who Arsenal need to be fair but the probability is Wenger will sign a couple of teenagers for about £15m and tell everytone it's a transitional period, I'd be going nuts if I was a Gooner

I considered Demba Ba, but with his dodgy knees, not sure Arsenal could risk it, especially with their injury issues already. They're clearly a problem as Stoke chose not to sign him, they haven't proved an issue yet, but if reports are to believed, it's only a matter of time.

I think if Liverpool were going to sell Suarez, they'd sell him to a team outside of England, they wouldn't want to any other team in the league to benefit from him. Also I would presume Suarez would prefer a move out of England to get away from his issues.

I think Arsenal should look at players from the Premier League to bring in, as too many times we've seen players that look decent in other leagues struggle with them in this one. I think Hazard and Huntelaar are both top players, and I would be surprised to see them struggle.

De Jong isn't a bad shout to play in defensive midfield, although I think Alex Song has been one of the few success stories for Arsenal this year. I'm not convinced Lampard would be worth it, he'd presumably be on high wages, and I don't think he can offer enough at his age to Arsenal.

the-gaffer wrote:I think we can all spend time thinking about who Arsenal need to be fair but the probability is Wenger will sign a couple of teenagers for about £15m and tell everytone it's a transitional period, I'd be going nuts if I was a Gooner

To be fair, he did change his usual style last year, but didn't seem to have the time to bring in that big signing. Per Mertesacker, Arteta are fairly big signings compared to previous years.

That was just sheer desperation though, everyone knew Nasri and Fabregas were leaving but Wenger left it until the last day which was out and out neglegence in my opinion

I like Song at times but he just doesn't stamp enough of an authority on the game, I can definitely see why some people would be weary of signing Lampard but I feel he would give Arsenal a bit of know how, a bit of been there done it and despite not playing nearly enough he's still managed about 12 goals, if his wage demands were sensible I think he'd be a great signing for a year or two, I think Wilshire would learn so much more from playing and training with him too

As for Suarez, I think personally if Liverpool get there money back for him they'd take it regardless of who it's too, I agree though that he might want out of England but if he likes the League he might be more intent of sticking it to Manchester United and prove he's a success

The players mentioned in most posts for Arsenal to sign would indeed improve them but one thing that eveyone is forgetting is that not many if any of these players will be signed whilst Arsene Wenger is in charge, it is just not his style.

AW's style is generally to develop players rather than buying established stars, with maybe the exeception of his latest purchases, although one could argue that none of those purchases are stars in the class of Hunterlaar or Suarez.

Whoever Arsenal replace him with would be another yes man to the board's demands and style. Arsenal are going in the direction that Chelsea have got to, where the board makes the transfer decisions and the manager has to stay quiet.

Crimey wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:I think we can all spend time thinking about who Arsenal need to be fair but the probability is Wenger will sign a couple of teenagers for about £15m and tell everytone it's a transitional period, I'd be going nuts if I was a Gooner

To be fair, he did change his usual style last year, but didn't seem to have the time to bring in that big signing. Per Mertesacker, Arteta are fairly big signings compared to previous years.

Disagree they're big signings, they're not kids (for once) but they're still budget signings. He needed a strong proven English centre-back at the heart of his defence. He could've had Cahill (1st choice), Jagielka (2nd choice) or possibly even Phil Jones (not sure how early United tapped him up). He could probably have even had another crack at Hangerland. But no, he refuses to get his wallet out for a measly £10m and instead does he usual raid of the continents bargain-bin. Pathetic.

Arteta has shown his level since joining a bigger better side and won't get a look in once Wilshere's back. Poor man's Fabregas if ever there was one.

Moyes in the hot-seat with Wenger as Director of Football could be an interesting combo, never like calling for the sacking of managers but if they don't make 4th this season I think he's got to make way for someone/something fresh.

It was pointed out on the weekend that since Arsenal last won a trophy, United and Chelsea have won 14. That's a bad statistic for Arsene and his 'grand plan' really should've begun to reap some rewards by now.

Interestingly, John Hartson was interviewed and he commented on the strength of the side Arsene inherited i.e. that defensive metal of that back five. It was the perfect foundation to build upon and build upon it he did with some great signings (Overmars, Viera, Henry etc etc). Alex Ferguson's greatest achievement has been his ability to recycle sides (whilst not ignoring youth), unfortunately for Gooners this seems to be Arsene's greatest weakness.

To be fair TopHat, he did sign Per Mertesacker who at the time looked a really good signing. Big, tough, imposing defender with a huge amount of experience, both at club level and internationally. I thought that seemed a much better signing than the relatively unproven players of Jagielka and Cahill who had played a fairly good level but not at the top level.

Arteta also seemed a good signing, obviously not a Fabregas, but he bought a player in his prime who was seen as a good player by most. It was a big improvement on his usual, where he would have brought in some unknown.

Even Andre Santos seemed a decent signing at the time.

Unfortunately these signings really haven't lived up to expectations, but that's all down to hindsight, as personally I thought that the signings of Mertesacker and Arteta were surprisingly good.

The reason Wenger lumped for those players at the last minute was that his original targets would not join. They just could not close out deals which has been a big problem for them since David Dein left they no longer have a strong and central character running the business side of things

Ever since Stan Kroenke first got involved with Arsenal they have refused to make any serious transfers that could help push the team closer with Man U, Wenger might be a bit weak in confronting the board but Stan is the one who holds the key to getting transfers!

I don't the players are necessarily the problem. Even if Arsenal spend big in the summer, I still don't see them winning a trophy. For me the real problem is the style of play.

Now fans and pundits compare their style to Barcelona but for me they are a long way off the style of football the Catalan club play. Yes the Gunners pass the ball plenty but too much of it is sideways and backwards. Arsenal are often are too slow to get the ball forward and don't always get enough people in the box. If I was to compare any Premier League club to Barcelona then it would more likely be Swansea.

When I watch Arsenal, they win the ball, get so far down the pitch then fail to make the final, killer pass. I have lost count of the times I have seen Walcott, RVP or Gervihno make a run into the box only for the player on the ball to turn back or pass the ball a few yards to the side. All this does is let the opposition get players back behind the ball. this was clearly evident against Sunderland.

Watch Barcelona and they do pass and keep the ball plenty but when they attack it is decisive. Arsenal lack this.

Go back ten years to when Arsenal were winning trophies and they were playing a totally different style. In fact they played a similar style to Man United (4-4-2/ 4-4-1-1).

For a start they had an out and out goalscorer like Ian Wright or Thierry Henry. Add to that a classic number 10 type player in Dennis Bergkamp. Now while RVP is getting plenty of goals, I see him more as a second striker and don't always think he makes 'goalhanger' type runs like Wright did or a Owen, Lineker or Hernandez. Walcott possibly could have been than type of player had he been developed as a striker rather then spending the past six years learning how to play wide.

In late trophy winning Arsenal side they had too up and down midfield who could play football but didn't mind getting stuck in, in Vieira and Petit and added two proper widemen. Add to that a solid defence that just hasn't been replaced.

If Arsene wants to start winning again, I think he needs to look at the blueprint Man City, Man United and Tottenham are all using. That doesn't mean the Gunners need to abandoned their passing game totally but you need a good foundation first.

If anyone is leaving Arsenal, I see it being RVP more than anyone else. He will surely want to start winning medals sooner or later and Barcelona could be perfect for him (if that is the case Arsene should be looking for get David Villa in a swap). I also thinking Walcott would benefit greatly from changing clubs and could see him going abroad.

I can't see many top players queuing up to go to the Emirates if they are not in the Champions League. Eden Hazard (Eddie Izzard as I like to call him) has already suggested he will be going to Tottenham (a club that has surely passed Arsenal now).

Possibly targets I would suggest for Arsenal include:-
Adam Johnson
Leighton Baines
Yann M'Vila
Luuk De Jong
James McClean

Cesc Fabregas said the biggest difference between Arsenal and Barcelona is that Barca practice defensive play and Arsenal didn't, you can see he has a genuine point because when Barcelona don't have the ball they are like Tazmanian Devils pressurising it until they win it back, preferribly as high up the field as possible, Arsenal just don't show that same desire.

With the respect Fabregas has for Wenger I really doubt he'd lie, he wasn't sticking the boot in either, he was just making a point in the difference between the clubs, now for me that's just utter neglegence, how any football team let alone a Champions League team doesn't practice defending is beyond belief

Yeh, I read that Gaffer. Unbelieveable.

As you say, never a hint of lying or sticking the boot in. Just a (shocking, IMO) revelation. Arsene get's praised so much as a coach/manager but this is a ridiculous oversight. Just look at Messi, best player in the world, exciting out and out attacker, but by God he loves to track back and chase players down - especially on the rare occassions he's the one that lost the ball.

My flatmate's a Gooner and his main comment is how lazy the Arsenal players are and lacking in desire. A lot of them just seem happy to pick-up the pay-cheque and have no passion for the club, team, captain or manager. That's why they were so hideously embarrassed against AC Milan - let's face it, could you ever see this Arsenal side doing what United did to Chelsea a few weeks back?

They just don't have the spirit.

gazzyD wrote:thats the problem though. A lot of people are saying its time for him to go, but the truth is there isn't a great deal of replacements. Personally I would love to see Moyes given a chance at a club like Arsenal. He has run Everton really well on not a great deal of money and no disrespect to Everton it's about time he was given a chance at a club who can potentially challenge for the honours season after season.

Moyes would sort the defence out I reckon, despite some of the performances I've seen, Moyes does usually keep his defence in check.

As for signings, that would all depend on where Arsenal finish. If they don't get top 4 I wouldn't expect Huntelaar or Hazard to be in a rush to sign for them. I like Crimeys idea of bring in Collocini and Baines or if Newcastle don't sell the Jageilka along with Baines.

I think I'd stick with Walcott, he'd add to the English quota in the squad and can still be a very good player, he just needs to get that consistency. They need somebody in that midfield to break up play and boss a midfield, for me Song isn't the guy for that, Daniele De Rossi would have been perfect especially on a free but he's just signed a contract extension at Roma. Up top they need to get rid of Chamakh and Gervinho, don't rate either and maybe try and offload one of them in a bid for Demba Ba

my 11 would be

Szczesny
Sagna
Collocini/Jageilka
Vermaelan
Baines
new midfielder
Wilshire
Arteta
Chamberlain (wide right)
Van Persie (wide left)
Demba Ba

I don't feel any of the transfer targets are over the top even if Arsenal fail to qualify for the Champions League, but they do need that midfielder but as I say none spring to mind at the minute

Playing RvP wide left is wasting the best striker in the EPL. I'd play a 442 with Theo and RvP as strikers, or perhaps behing Theo.

I'm fed up with the stick Theo gets. He's not a winger. I remember when Lineker went to Barca and Cryuff played his as a right winger. He was useless there. I think Wenger will keep theo and play him central next season.

As Coq is a fabulous player. He'll be a definite starter next year. A seriously quality player. We also have Ryo next year. Santos should be played in midfield with Gibbs at left back. Arsenal need a dominant central midfielder in the Veira mould. Should have been Diaby but for injuries.

Arteta is just not good enough. He's Cecs lite. Keeps things ticking over nicely, but lacks the vision. He has Barca DNA though.

Kos is also one of the best central defenders in the EPL. Certainly a better defender that Verm imo.

I think another difference between Barcelona and Arsenal is the pace of the passing. It's very slow compared to Barcelona which can make its way up the pitch very fast, yet Arsenal's doesn't. It involves a lot more sideways passing and very rarely do we see a real decisive ball. It's all nice and pretty but totally ineffective.

I think Arsene Wenger needs to decide whether he wants to be effective or try his best at fitting a system around the players. This doesn't mean they have to start hoofing balls forward, Manchester City or even Manchester United don't try and play the 'Barca-way' but their football for the most part is attractive as well as effective.

That is the way Arsenal's football used to be, Wenger got so obsessed with keeping hold of Fabregas that he based his whole team around, now they are playing the way Fabregas would have liked without it actually being able to go through Fabregas.

The Wenger of now really just needs to learn from the Wenger of the early noughties. Good football but effective football, play to the strengths of his side. Build a side, and don't be afraid to spend money.

Crimey wrote:I think another difference between Barcelona and Arsenal is the pace of the passing. It's very slow compared to Barcelona which can make its way up the pitch very fast, yet Arsenal's doesn't. It involves a lot more sideways passing and very rarely do we see a real decisive ball. It's all nice and pretty but totally ineffective.

I think Arsene Wenger needs to decide whether he wants to be effective or try his best at fitting a system around the players. This doesn't mean they have to start hoofing balls forward, Manchester City or even Manchester United don't try and play the 'Barca-way' but their football for the most part is attractive as well as effective.

That is the way Arsenal's football used to be, Wenger got so obsessed with keeping hold of Fabregas that he based his whole team around, now they are playing the way Fabregas would have liked without it actually being able to go through Fabregas.

The Wenger of now really just needs to learn from the Wenger of the early noughties. Good football but effective football, play to the strengths of his side. Build a side, and don't be afraid to spend money.

Wenger was spening money. But as soon as Dein left, the class players didn't come in. Interesting that Arsenal's downfall started to gather pace when Dein left. I believe he is taking the flak for the board.

Crimey wrote:I think another difference between Barcelona and Arsenal is the pace of the passing. It's very slow compared to Barcelona which can make its way up the pitch very fast, yet Arsenal's doesn't. It involves a lot more sideways passing and very rarely do we see a real decisive ball. It's all nice and pretty but totally ineffective.

I think Arsene Wenger needs to decide whether he wants to be effective or try his best at fitting a system around the players. This doesn't mean they have to start hoofing balls forward, Manchester City or even Manchester United don't try and play the 'Barca-way' but their football for the most part is attractive as well as effective.

That is the way Arsenal's football used to be, Wenger got so obsessed with keeping hold of Fabregas that he based his whole team around, now they are playing the way Fabregas would have liked without it actually being able to go through Fabregas.

The Wenger of now really just needs to learn from the Wenger of the early noughties. Good football but effective football, play to the strengths of his side. Build a side, and don't be afraid to spend money.

I think that sums up Arsenal's current predicament perfectly.

Arsenal are football's equivalent of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

But god you have to love them when they are Dr Jekyll!!!

I do agree though (even with still being elated after yesterday) that we do need an influx of real quality, and some other less than top quality players to beef out the squad. (going into the season with only 4 full backs and letting both Clichy and Eboue go was rediculous, especially with Gibbs injury record).

However an interesting question for the thread maybe - Has Arsene's experiment of trying to win trophies and build squads without spending vast amounts of money failed?

Does this mean that the only teams that can compete for any of the main trophies have to spend huge amounts of money (look at the current sides, Man C huge outlay, Man U 4 £25-£30m players and a £20m youngsters, Spurs spent more than Man U for 3 seasons in a row, resulting in a huge squad, Chelsea have spent hugely in the past and have £50m Torres, Liverpool spent £200m on players like Carroll, Downing, Henderson and Adam.
Arsenal spent half the money recouped from transfers (and I think Stoke even spent £40m over the last 2 seasons), and it's showing that their squad is lite, and they don't have the quality spine through the team, or the quality on the bench to replace the players they've had injured through this season - Sagna, Vermaelen, Wiltshire, Gibbs,

gazzyD wrote:thats the problem though. A lot of people are saying its time for him to go, but the truth is there isn't a great deal of replacements. Personally I would love to see Moyes given a chance at a club like Arsenal. He has run Everton really well on not a great deal of money and no disrespect to Everton it's about time he was given a chance at a club who can potentially challenge for the honours season after season.

Moyes would sort the defence out I reckon, despite some of the performances I've seen, Moyes does usually keep his defence in check.

As for signings, that would all depend on where Arsenal finish. If they don't get top 4 I wouldn't expect Huntelaar or Hazard to be in a rush to sign for them. I like Crimeys idea of bring in Collocini and Baines or if Newcastle don't sell the Jageilka along with Baines.

I think I'd stick with Walcott, he'd add to the English quota in the squad and can still be a very good player, he just needs to get that consistency. They need somebody in that midfield to break up play and boss a midfield, for me Song isn't the guy for that, Daniele De Rossi would have been perfect especially on a free but he's just signed a contract extension at Roma. Up top they need to get rid of Chamakh and Gervinho, don't rate either and maybe try and offload one of them in a bid for Demba Ba

my 11 would be

Szczesny
Sagna
Collocini/Jageilka
Vermaelan
Baines
new midfielder
Wilshire
Arteta
Chamberlain (wide right)
Van Persie (wide left)
Demba Ba

I don't feel any of the transfer targets are over the top even if Arsenal fail to qualify for the Champions League, but they do need that midfielder but as I say none spring to mind at the minute

Baines, Jagielka, Collocini are not good enough for the top level...Jagielka and Collocini would not even make the bench Mertesacker, Vermaelen and Koscielny are far better...the only reason Jagielka may look good is because Everton play defensively.

Moyes is a good manager but not good enough for Arsenal...Think Wenger steps down Arsenal should try heaven and earth to get Guardiola.

Ba would be a gamble because he has a lot of injuries in the past...De Rossi will never leave Roma and Arsenal already have Song's replacement in Coquelin...Gervinho will come good I think.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Crimey wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:I think we can all spend time thinking about who Arsenal need to be fair but the probability is Wenger will sign a couple of teenagers for about £15m and tell everytone it's a transitional period, I'd be going nuts if I was a Gooner

To be fair, he did change his usual style last year, but didn't seem to have the time to bring in that big signing. Per Mertesacker, Arteta are fairly big signings compared to previous years.

Disagree they're big signings, they're not kids (for once) but they're still budget signings. He needed a strong proven English centre-back at the heart of his defence. He could've had Cahill (1st choice), Jagielka (2nd choice) or possibly even Phil Jones (not sure how early United tapped him up). He could probably have even had another crack at Hangerland. But no, he refuses to get his wallet out for a measly £10m and instead does he usual raid of the continents bargain-bin. Pathetic.

Arteta has shown his level since joining a bigger better side and won't get a look in once Wilshere's back. Poor man's Fabregas if ever there was one.

Moyes in the hot-seat with Wenger as Director of Football could be an interesting combo, never like calling for the sacking of managers but if they don't make 4th this season I think he's got to make way for someone/something fresh.

It was pointed out on the weekend that since Arsenal last won a trophy, United and Chelsea have won 14. That's a bad statistic for Arsene and his 'grand plan' really should've begun to reap some rewards by now.

Interestingly, John Hartson was interviewed and he commented on the strength of the side Arsene inherited i.e. that defensive metal of that back five. It was the perfect foundation to build upon and build upon it he did with some great signings (Overmars, Viera, Henry etc etc). Alex Ferguson's greatest achievement has been his ability to recycle sides (whilst not ignoring youth), unfortunately for Gooners this seems to be Arsene's greatest weakness.

Cahill ...Have you seen him this season he is awful...Jones is not ready to play centre back and had his heart set on United...Mertesacker is much better than the likes of Cahill and Jagielka...The arsenal board are to blame they are not giving Wenger money.

Guardiola won't come to Arsenal - IF he quits Barca he'll probably have a break for a season or 2 and then go to Chelsea (who are always looking for a new manager), replace SAF or go to an italian club.

Moyes is a very good manager, it'd be a risk bringing him in to replace Wenger as his philosophy is totally different and he hasn't done it at the very top (though that's not to say he couldn't). But there's no way I'd want to see us get rid of Wenger as I'm not sure of many managers who could improve the team without spending huge amounts of money that we haven't got.


As you say Gervinho will come good, and we have Frimpong (shame he got Fringonged) and Eastmond as well as Coquelin to cover for Song.

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yeh, I read that Gaffer. Unbelieveable.

As you say, never a hint of lying or sticking the boot in. Just a (shocking, IMO) revelation. Arsene get's praised so much as a coach/manager but this is a ridiculous oversight. Just look at Messi, best player in the world, exciting out and out attacker, but by God he loves to track back and chase players down - especially on the rare occassions he's the one that lost the ball.

My flatmate's a Gooner and his main comment is how lazy the Arsenal players are and lacking in desire. A lot of them just seem happy to pick-up the pay-cheque and have no passion for the club, team, captain or manager. That's why they were so hideously embarrassed against AC Milan - let's face it, could you ever see this Arsenal side doing what United did to Chelsea a few weeks back?

They just don't have the spirit.

Well they did it yesterday...All these great proven English centre backs...How come they shipped four against Germany?

Koscielny is shockingly underrated...3rd best centre back in league after Kompany and Vidic.

After yesterday can now everyone see how cack the overrated Parker is...Parker should not even be in the England team let alone be captain.

Carrick has to go to the Euros and be the defensive midfielder...Parker would be laughed at and embarrassed by the likes of Spain and Germany.

I'm sorry but IMO Parker is twice the player Carrick is - Carrick is so overrated and has done nothing to justify the £20m United spent on him.

Parker just had an off day at the office, which considering the way Arsenal can play when they want to, can happen to anyone.

No way in a million years is Parker close to Carrick...Parker could never make it at Chelsea for a reason and spent his best years at West Ham, Newcastle because all the top clubs could see he was not good enough.

Parker is cack!!!...Cant pass no technical ability just goes around kicking players and people think he is good for some strange reason.

I guess you haven't watched Carrick this season who has been a sensational...4 premiership titles and a champions league is more than enough to justify his transfer fee.

Sir Alex Ferguson can see his talent that is why he is in the team year in and out.

Stuart Pearce is a shocking manager makes a lot of mistakes...Harry Redknapp will be found out as well soon.

The genius of PBF wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yeh, I read that Gaffer. Unbelieveable.

As you say, never a hint of lying or sticking the boot in. Just a (shocking, IMO) revelation. Arsene get's praised so much as a coach/manager but this is a ridiculous oversight. Just look at Messi, best player in the world, exciting out and out attacker, but by God he loves to track back and chase players down - especially on the rare occassions he's the one that lost the ball.

My flatmate's a Gooner and his main comment is how lazy the Arsenal players are and lacking in desire. A lot of them just seem happy to pick-up the pay-cheque and have no passion for the club, team, captain or manager. That's why they were so hideously embarrassed against AC Milan - let's face it, could you ever see this Arsenal side doing what United did to Chelsea a few weeks back?

They just don't have the spirit.

Well they did it yesterday...All these great proven English centre backs...How come they shipped four against Germany?

Both defences were appalling yesterday. Arsenal won because of the quality of their midfield/forward play, not the defence which didn't look up to much even when a useless Spurs side did try attack for once. Cahill has had a couple of ropey moments this season but that's after 2-3 solid seasons. Mertesacker has been shown up time after time this season and has looked like Laurent Blanc when he was at United, not a supposedly 27 yr old defender in his prime. Absolute rubbish.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yeh, I read that Gaffer. Unbelieveable.

As you say, never a hint of lying or sticking the boot in. Just a (shocking, IMO) revelation. Arsene get's praised so much as a coach/manager but this is a ridiculous oversight. Just look at Messi, best player in the world, exciting out and out attacker, but by God he loves to track back and chase players down - especially on the rare occassions he's the one that lost the ball.

My flatmate's a Gooner and his main comment is how lazy the Arsenal players are and lacking in desire. A lot of them just seem happy to pick-up the pay-cheque and have no passion for the club, team, captain or manager. That's why they were so hideously embarrassed against AC Milan - let's face it, could you ever see this Arsenal side doing what United did to Chelsea a few weeks back?

They just don't have the spirit.

Well they did it yesterday...All these great proven English centre backs...How come they shipped four against Germany?

Both defences were appalling yesterday. Arsenal won because of the quality of their midfield/forward play, not the defence which didn't look up to much even when a useless Spurs side did try attack for once. Cahill has had a couple of ropey moments this season but that's after 2-3 solid seasons. Mertesacker has been shown up time after time this season and has looked like Laurent Blanc when he was at United, not a supposedly 27 yr old defender in his prime. Absolute rubbish.

No he hasn't he has made a few mistakes but generally has been revelation Arsenal have improved from set plays and that is down to him...If you seriously think the awful Cahill is better than a 70 plus cap German defender then I feel sorry for you...Absolute rubbish.

His reading of the game and positioning is second to none and very rarely gets caught out...I guess you think Parker is better than Busquets.

Cahill has a horrific tackle record this year which includes making less tackles per game than both Suarez and Nani, and a pass completion rate of around 70%, for a supposed ball-playing defender...that's awful.

He has looked atrocious for Bolton and Chelsea this year, his record with Chelsea is horrendous and although it's not all his fault, some of the blame can easily put on his shoulders.

The genius of PBF - If you think Carrick is better then fine, IMO he's overrated and very poor and goes missing in games. Also by using cups won you could say Wes Brown is an amazing defender coz he won tonnes of trophies with United while Gianfranco Zola was terrible coz he only won a FA cup with Chelsea.

Parker is there to break up plays, anchor the midfield and get possession, and Spurs seem to be doing well at all those things since he signed - they are mostly the same things Carrick is meant to do for United but it doesn't happen as much for them. Just my opinion though

Smirnoffpriest wrote:The genius of PBF - If you think Carrick is better then fine, IMO he's overrated and very poor and goes missing in games. Also by using cups won you could say Wes Brown is an amazing defender coz he won tonnes of trophies with United while Gianfranco Zola was terrible coz he only won a FA cup with Chelsea.

Parker is there to break up plays, anchor the midfield and get possession, and Spurs seem to be doing well at all those things since he signed - they are mostly the same things Carrick is meant to do for United but it doesn't happen as much for them. Just my opinion though

Parker is clueless at keeping possession Song showed him up on Sunday and Modric makes him look good...Brown wasn't first choice at United...Carrick has been the mainstay of Uniteds midfield the last 6 years...Scholes the best premiership midfielder ever said this about him:

"Over the last six years at the club he's been terrific, one of the most under-rated players that the Premier League has had," said Scholes.

"Since he's come we've won the league in all but one season – that says it all. You need players such as Michael to be successful. He's a total team player, which players around him really appreciate.

"To be a central midfielder at this club you have to take responsibility – take the ball all the time, defend at times and be prepared to drive the team on to score goals and win games. Michael does all those things."

In Spain Carrick would be lauded there...This is why England never get anywhere if you got the likes of limited mediocre players like Parker in your team.

The genius of PBF wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:The genius of PBF - If you think Carrick is better then fine, IMO he's overrated and very poor and goes missing in games. Also by using cups won you could say Wes Brown is an amazing defender coz he won tonnes of trophies with United while Gianfranco Zola was terrible coz he only won a FA cup with Chelsea.

Parker is there to break up plays, anchor the midfield and get possession, and Spurs seem to be doing well at all those things since he signed - they are mostly the same things Carrick is meant to do for United but it doesn't happen as much for them. Just my opinion though

Parker is clueless at keeping possession Song showed him up on Sunday and Modric makes him look good...Brown wasn't first choice at United...Carrick has been the mainstay of Uniteds midfield the last 6 years...Scholes the best premiership midfielder ever said this about him:

"Over the last six years at the club he's been terrific, one of the most under-rated players that the Premier League has had," said Scholes.

"Since he's come we've won the league in all but one season – that says it all. You need players such as Michael to be successful. He's a total team player, which players around him really appreciate.

"To be a central midfielder at this club you have to take responsibility – take the ball all the time, defend at times and be prepared to drive the team on to score goals and win games. Michael does all those things."

In Spain Carrick would be lauded there...This is why England never get anywhere if you got the likes of limited mediocre players like Parker in your team.

But England didn't exactly get very far when Carrick was in the team either... (or you could say they've reached their potential with both players - QFs)

Also Carrick has been kept out of the Man U side on a few different occassions and you must ask why Man U needed 4 defensive midfielders at one point - Anderson, Fletcher, Carrick and Hargreaves.

But it doesn't really matter - you have your opinion, I have mine

Carrick has never been first choice for England and hasn't got a fair crack of the whip.

England made a mistake of not building their team around Scholes...As good as Gerrard and Lampard are they never been the one to keep possession well which is crucial at international level.

But Scholes as many Man U players didn't turn up to every international game and retired early

The genius of PBF wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yeh, I read that Gaffer. Unbelieveable.

As you say, never a hint of lying or sticking the boot in. Just a (shocking, IMO) revelation. Arsene get's praised so much as a coach/manager but this is a ridiculous oversight. Just look at Messi, best player in the world, exciting out and out attacker, but by God he loves to track back and chase players down - especially on the rare occassions he's the one that lost the ball.

My flatmate's a Gooner and his main comment is how lazy the Arsenal players are and lacking in desire. A lot of them just seem happy to pick-up the pay-cheque and have no passion for the club, team, captain or manager. That's why they were so hideously embarrassed against AC Milan - let's face it, could you ever see this Arsenal side doing what United did to Chelsea a few weeks back?

They just don't have the spirit.

Well they did it yesterday...All these great proven English centre backs...How come they shipped four against Germany?

Both defences were appalling yesterday. Arsenal won because of the quality of their midfield/forward play, not the defence which didn't look up to much even when a useless Spurs side did try attack for once. Cahill has had a couple of ropey moments this season but that's after 2-3 solid seasons. Mertesacker has been shown up time after time this season and has looked like Laurent Blanc when he was at United, not a supposedly 27 yr old defender in his prime. Absolute rubbish.

No he hasn't he has made a few mistakes but generally has been revelation Arsenal have improved from set plays and that is down to him...If you seriously think the awful Cahill is better than a 70 plus cap German defender then I feel sorry for you...Absolute rubbish.

His reading of the game and positioning is second to none and very rarely gets caught out...I guess you think Parker is better than Busquets.

what the hell have you been smoking??!

Smirnoffpriest wrote:But Scholes as many Man U players didn't turn up to every international game and retired early

Scholes retired as he was stuck out on the left and lesser players like Gerrard and Lampard was played in the centre.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

The genius of PBF wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yeh, I read that Gaffer. Unbelieveable.

As you say, never a hint of lying or sticking the boot in. Just a (shocking, IMO) revelation. Arsene get's praised so much as a coach/manager but this is a ridiculous oversight. Just look at Messi, best player in the world, exciting out and out attacker, but by God he loves to track back and chase players down - especially on the rare occassions he's the one that lost the ball.

My flatmate's a Gooner and his main comment is how lazy the Arsenal players are and lacking in desire. A lot of them just seem happy to pick-up the pay-cheque and have no passion for the club, team, captain or manager. That's why they were so hideously embarrassed against AC Milan - let's face it, could you ever see this Arsenal side doing what United did to Chelsea a few weeks back?

They just don't have the spirit.

Well they did it yesterday...All these great proven English centre backs...How come they shipped four against Germany?

Both defences were appalling yesterday. Arsenal won because of the quality of their midfield/forward play, not the defence which didn't look up to much even when a useless Spurs side did try attack for once. Cahill has had a couple of ropey moments this season but that's after 2-3 solid seasons. Mertesacker has been shown up time after time this season and has looked like Laurent Blanc when he was at United, not a supposedly 27 yr old defender in his prime. Absolute rubbish.

No he hasn't he has made a few mistakes but generally has been revelation Arsenal have improved from set plays and that is down to him...If you seriously think the awful Cahill is better than a 70 plus cap German defender then I feel sorry for you...Absolute rubbish.

His reading of the game and positioning is second to none and very rarely gets caught out...I guess you think Parker is better than Busquets.

what the hell have you been smoking??!

Yep Mertesacker instead of listening to the media who think every English player is world class and foreigners are cack form your own opinion...I watch nearly every football involving the top 6 sides and can see from myself instead of a 2minute clip on match of the day like you probably.

Wonder what you must have been smoking for suggesting the awful Cahill and overrated Jagielka would have been a better signing then Mertesacker.

Parker is the type of player the english like. A battler. All perspiration but lacking inspiration. Carrick, is miles better. At least he knows how to keep possession and its importance.

Usually, I find that Arsenal are one of the most unlucky teams, but today they had all the luck going (save the dive from Suarez). A very poor performance but they come away with 3 points. In truth they didn't deserve any.