The body language issue: but do we really speak with our body?

Dear fellow tennis fans: I would like hereby to debate one of the most controversial, and in my book inflated issues in tennis right now: the body language topic.

It is undoubtedly getting increasingly popular for tennis commentators, journalists and opinionists to refer to the body language of the players as a strenght or, most importantly, a weakness that needs to be absolutely fixed if this or that player wants to fulfill all of his potential. Even the most illiterate of the pundits feels at ease when it comes to “reading” the subtle messages coming from the player’s body as it was an open book.

But, first of all, are we really convinced that the body has a language at all? I, personally am not persuaded. Yes, I don’t deny that I sometime indulge in the admiration of a well proportioned body, but I have never tried to read all sort of subliminal messages coming from it.

Also: if it does exists , does it really matter at all in a sport competition? Wash brained as we are by herds of consultants, psychologists, PRs of all sorts who would do everything they can to justify their parcels, most people seem to have come to the dogmatic conlusion that yes it does. But why it should, I mean: do cleaners do a better job if they fist pump and celebrate loudly at every bit of the house cleaned or doctors if they appear overconfident on the prognosis of their patients and cross always in a very flamboyant and outgoing fashion rooms and corridors where there’s plenty of sufference?

If this is all true why should a tennis player under the deep mental and physical strain and fatigue of those marathon matches, pretend that he is enjoying every minute of it and yes shame it was the final and now he is forced to rest!!

The body definitely does have a language all of its own - we all signal to others constantly whether we are attending to them/what's going on or whether we are just feigning polite interest. Whether this helps us perform various functions better or worse may be up for debate, but I think by, for example, leaning towards someone you are talking to you actively make yourself listen more closely.

In terms of tennis - having a good poker face on occasions is really helpful because it signals to your opponent you may have a plan, even if you are in state of blind panic!!!! In other words, you keep the pressure firmly on him as well. What has come to be known as 'vamosing' sends a shiver of doom into the hearts of Fed fans, so I think it probably sends a very powerful message of intent across the net too. Andy Murray's erstwhile 'negative' behaviour seemed to make it difficult for himself and he wasted valuable energy instead of directing it positively - I bet it made the guy on the other side feel a whole lot 'bigger' as well!

The shot (series of shots I mean) that brought about the leg-kicking, screaming, fist-pumping VAMOS is what causes the doubt on the other side of the net, not the actual act of the 'vamos' itself.

As for Murray's looking a bit sulking and moaning a bit, it makes little difference as he does it in a lot of matches, whether he's winning on losing.

I don't get how Nadal doing what he does is somehow not a waste of energy, but Murray having a bit of a sulk is? But I guess it depends who your favourite (anti-favourite) player is.

I have my doubts about the absolute importance of body language in a tennis match, but it's not worth ignoring.

I think the most powerful body language is a poker face.

I agree with djly that yelling Vamos and fist-pumping is probably not as as important as the passage of play that brings about such a reaction - and it might even be counter-productive.

Equally a player who shows when he thinks he's up and then lets his shoulders droop when he thinks he's down must hand his opponent a filip - but whether the opponent has already noted the momentum shift anyway is difficult to say.

Facial expressions, more than other aspects of a body language, are a mirror into one's 'soul' (to paraphrase someone). It does provide a window, as well as affirm, the humanity of each of the tennis players.

Crying, fist pumps (WTA ones included) send a message to the player first, their opponent across the net next.

Nadal's lawn-mower is already an icon for generations to come, so is Bryan brothers' chest bump (now copied shamelessly). Nadal mimicked Murray's hammering of the tennis racquet at AO during his final match.

Federer showed clear signs of frustration in the Davydenko match in Rotterdam when he missed shots.

Nalbandian's racquet breaks, as well as Soderling's or Djokovic's are very well known. There may not be any verbal utterings, but the body has a definite language, which becomes even more crucial in a team sport.

If the mouth and voicebox are part of the human body, then yes, we really speak with our body.

But maybe you are referring to non-verbal / non-speech communication

Body language has been overrated to the point of tedium in recent tedious Murray analysis.

This is interesting.

I have a few questions about this. Is body language always genuine? Does it always reflect a players true feelings? Do some players put on a show for the opponant. Can this be effective?

Everyone is familiar with the "poker face". This has proved to be effective at the very top of the game for Borg and Federer. With Borg IMO it reflected his personality however with Federer IMO he puts it on to mask his emotions. Are they both as effective?

Lots of players show negative emotion and usually it is detrimental. When Ferrer hits himself with the raquet I just know he's going to lose. Murray is a bit different. Unlike others I think he benifits from his show of despondency. Often he sucks the life from his opponant with it (not to mention his viewer... )

One of the things I found interesting about Nadal when I first saw him was his positive energy. He just doesn't get down on himself. I've seen him near the end of a match that he's losing, play a good shot and celebrate as if he's close to a win. I had always thought that the best tactic as far as body language goes was the poker face. Nadal made me rethink.

hawkeye wrote:This is interesting.

I have a few questions about this. Is body language always genuine? Does it always reflect a players true feelings? Do some players put on a show for the opponant. Can this be effective?

Everyone is familiar with the "poker face". This has proved to be effective at the very top of the game for Borg and Federer. With Borg IMO it reflected his personality however with Federer IMO he puts it on to mask his emotions. Are they both as effective?

Lots of players show negative emotion and usually it is detrimental. When Ferrer hits himself with the raquet I just know he's going to lose. Murray is a bit different. Unlike others I think he benifits from his show of despondency. Often he sucks the life from his opponant with it (not to mention his viewer... )

One of the things I found interesting about Nadal when I first saw him was his positive energy. He just doesn't get down on himself. I've seen him near the end of a match that he's losing, play a good shot and celebrate as if he's close to a win. I had always thought that the best tactic as far as body language goes was the poker face. Nadal made me rethink.

I can't believe that a player would 'fake' his body language beyond simply controlling it by the poker face mechanism - anything more elaborate than that would take up valuable space for thinking about other things.

I am sure that Connors and MacEnroe 'play-acted' a bit to gain an advantage - not so much body language in the sense I understand the OP as firing themselves up or even overtly trying to change the atmosphere on court to suit themselves.

I am sure that body language follows the ebb and flow of a match rather than sets it. Players will feel momentum swings without the need to look at their opponents' reactions. Body language is probably less 'detrimental' to the player in the sense of significantly aiding their opponent than symptomatic of the fact that he's having a bad match and getting down on himself.

It may be a good way of connecting with supporters and encouraging them to get behind a player or build up the atmosphere - some players may feed on that and use it to help themselves a bit that way.

[quote=djlovesyou]The shot (series of shots I mean) that brought about the leg-kicking, screaming, fist-pumping VAMOS is what causes the doubt on the other side of the net, not the actual act of the 'vamos' itself.[/quote]

Oh absolutely, quite agree with you and barry here - think it sends a very powerful message that 'here we go' there's plenty more of where that came from and is usually applied when Rafa is in to that 'zone' and has found his rhythm - I guess that is what I meant.

time please wrote:

djlovesyou wrote:The shot (series of shots I mean) that brought about the leg-kicking, screaming, fist-pumping VAMOS is what causes the doubt on the other side of the net, not the actual act of the 'vamos' itself.

Oh absolutely, quite agree with you and barry here - think it sends a very powerful message that 'here we go' there's plenty more of where that came from and is usually applied when Rafa is in to that 'zone' and has found his rhythm - I guess that is what I meant.

So the message is in the balls [a Nore Staat original to compete with Marshal McLuhan].

One of the most efficient body language I have seen is by Rafa at the net....and probably in the changing room too previous to the match.

Constantly jumping and passing on the message that to beat him one woudl have to be extremely fit. I have seen a few matches where the match was lost at the coin toss at the net. In particular one I remember where Gonzo simply did not even try at the FO.

I however remember Tsonga's thoughts which he shared later in the post match conference after having creamed Nadal in that AO08. Watching Nadal jumping relentlessy in front of him in the changing room and corridor leading to the centercourt, Tsonga said to himself "Jump, jump, as much as you like, I am going to make you run so much that if I were you I'd save my energy"

Tenez wrote:
I however remember Tsonga's thoughts which he shared later in the post match conference after having creamed Nadal in that AO08. Watching Nadal jumping relentlessy in front of him in the changing room and corridor leading to the centercourt, Tsonga said to himself "Jump, jump, as much as you like, I am going to make you run so much that if I were you I'd save my energy"

Like I said, it runs the risk of being counter-productive if it does not chime with the momentum in a match - it might even look desperate.

Debates like this are enjoyable, but the reality is that nobody can accurately draw the line which separates technical and physical merit from mental strength - it truly is a chicken and egg discussion. It's also worth remembering one's own experience of life - just because you are capable of doing something it does not mean that there's a ready explanation for why you can't on any particular occasion you try to do so, and it certainly does not mean that a failure to achieve what you are capable of on any occasion should be routinely ascribed to mental failings. Life is more complicated than that.

barrystar wrote:Debates like this are enjoyable, but the reality is that nobody can accurately draw the line which separates technical and physical merit from mental strength - it truly is a chicken and egg discussion.

I think nowadays, it's very clear. Physique is everything. It's certainly the vital base needed to compete versus the top 4. Without it, no mental or/and technical strengthes can compete with Nadal, Murray and Djoko. Not even Federer's technique, mental strength and genius can rival versus today's physical players over 5 sets....and he is no shrimp.

In that respect, body language has little importance. One can see Djokovic lying down on the floor trying to recover his breath in the 5th set...while Nadal suddenly on the service line ready to serve and trying to show he can still play (for once) within 20s, yet....the player able to play his game in teh 5th set like in the first will win.

Mac said he was staggered by how ice cool Borg looked after missing a clutch of championship points in THAT tiebreak in the 1980 Wimbledon final.
Most - including Mac - thought Mac would breeze home in the 5th, but the inscrutable Swede carried on as if nothing had happened, continued playing beautiful tennis and triumphed.
Personally, when I'm playing I love to see my opponent losing his rag. Means I'm winning !

sirfredperry wrote: Personally, when I'm playing I love to see my opponent losing his rag. Means I'm winning !

So it does, but when you consider cause and effect the starting point is the momentum of the game which feeds into the body language, not the other way around. However, I'd agree that if an opponent obviously seems to take a momentum shift in his stride he nullifies some of the advantage of that shift.

AO 2010 Murray vs Federer in the final. I think Federer knew he was going to win in the second set - there was a point where Federer seemed to be stifling laughter, as he looked over the net and saw a beaten looking Murray with glazed eyes.

Certainly Federer must have been feeling nice and relaxed knowing that Murray was a beaten man.

Nore Staat wrote:AO 2010 Murray vs Federer in the final. I think Federer knew he was going to win in the second set - there was a point where Federer seemed to be stifling laughter, as he looked over the net and saw a beaten looking Murray with glazed eyes.

Certainly Federer must have been feeling nice and relaxed knowing that Murray was a beaten man.

He probably would not have seen Murray's eyes, I am sure that the TV watching public get a far better understanding of players' facial expressions between points than they do.

Fed was given a big run for his money in the third set which was a very different affair - he needed to win that tie-breaker.

Looking at the respective body language of Federer and Delpo in that USO09 final, one would have thought that Federer was going to walk it in 3 sets....but as soon as Fed tired and lost a step...the body language changed.

Nore Staat wrote:AO 2010 Murray vs Federer in the final. I think Federer knew he was going to win in the second set - there was a point where Federer seemed to be stifling laughter, as he looked over the net and saw a beaten looking Murray with glazed eyes.

Certainly Federer must have been feeling nice and relaxed knowing that Murray was a beaten man.

Federer has got a bit of a vindictive streak. Contrast his demeanor when Murray cried because he lost the AO with Nadals when Federer cried because he lost the AO. This could of course have something to do with the different relationship between the two pairs of players. I've always thought that Federer looked like he rather enjoyed Murray's tears...

Tenez wrote:One of the most efficient body language I have seen is by Rafa at the net....and probably in the changing room too previous to the match.

Constantly jumping and passing on the message that to beat him one woudl have to be extremely fit. I have seen a few matches where the match was lost at the coin toss at the net. In particular one I remember where Gonzo simply did not even try at the FO.

I however remember Tsonga's thoughts which he shared later in the post match conference after having creamed Nadal in that AO08. Watching Nadal jumping relentlessy in front of him in the changing room and corridor leading to the centercourt, Tsonga said to himself "Jump, jump, as much as you like, I am going to make you run so much that if I were you I'd save my energy"

Not surprisingly we see the same thing differently.

I always think a lot of players try and give the impression that they are cool and calm. A bit like they've arrived at an exam without doing much revision. They want to look like they're holding a little back. This way if they lose it won't hurt so much. Nadal is the opposite. He's the class swot. He looks like he's going to invest everything in the match. He gives the impression that he's done all his homework and burnt the midnight oil doing revision. It's quite brave really because it will make a loss more painful. It's quite telling that so few are brave enough to risk looking like they have invested everything.

Wonder why Tsonga hasn't tried to make Nadal run when they've met on subsequent occasions?...

hawkeye wrote: It's quite telling that so few are brave enough to risk looking like they have invested everything.

Does Murray fall into that category with his anger and despair when things are going badly, or does it have to be leg kicking, roaring, fistpumps?

Getting angry with youself in this situation is giving the signal that you think you could have done better. So no it doesn't fall into this category.

What if Murray started doing huge, snarling, leg kicking vamoses everytime he managed to successfully eat a banana?

Would he fall into your mythical 'super-brave' category then?

I like your exam analogy though. I don't think Nadal is the swot mind you, he's the guy who's got his mate to steal the exam papers for him.

djlovesyou

Ha ha! I take it you don't rate Nadal then?