Is it time for Allan "Chunk" Jacobsen to move on?

Although he has been a great servant to Scotland for several years and has always been a fan favourite, I think it could possibly be time for him to go for several reasons:

The scrum is going backwards each time we play a top team and nearly always leading to a penalty, I firmly believe that if our scrum had been stronger and Mike Blair hadn't been injured we would have scored another try

He is constantly giving away penalties at needless times for example when we have the ball or they have slow ball in their own half

He cannot catch

He is 33 years old and will not be playing at the next world cup

The problem is, who will replace him?




[b]

He gave away needless penaltys and looked yesterdays man

Got to give him credit for giving the French scrumhalf a slap though

munkian wrote:Got to give him credit for giving the French scrumhalf a slap though

+1

Jon Welsh could be in with a shout of coming into the team after his impressive displays on the wrong side of the scrum for Glasgow... As much as Robbo loves Chunk, he's on the wane and both Welsh and Ryan Grant have been excellent this year for Glasgow at 1... Welsh did a number on Van Der Merwe on Saturday and Grant held his own pretty well against Nathan White!

Welsh, Shiells and Grant appear to be the main contenders - not sure any of them are quite ready yet, possibly Welsh at a push on current form

He was useless on the weekend. The sooner you can find a replacement the better.

If the rumours are true about WP Nel (a tighthead prop)having a scottish relative then he'll probably be in the Scotland squad by the next 6N.

If he's a tighthead then he's up against Murray, I think we need to start converting either Nel, Cross, Low or stick with the likes of Shiells, Grant and Welsh or throw in one of the young Edinburgh ones (which would possibly disastrous). I know it is a bit off topic but did anyone else think that Kalman looked like a lost overweight teddybear against France?

For obvious reasons im a fan of Shiels...and i do think he will be a Scotland International of distinction....but he got handed his a$$ against Leicester this weekend....well to be fair all the falcons did ...

Nel is young, maybe 24?, he's been recruited to play long term beyond Murray. For whatever reason I don't think Murray is the player he was. With Jacobsen losing form I think we're now looking at needing to find players to prop both sides of Ford.

Nel is 25 . But is he already qualified or are we talking 3 yr residency in which case hes not in the mix

I've just looked it up, Nel is 25 and Murray is 31. Nel is also heavier than Murray.
Have a look at the WP Nel showreel on YouTube, if he can play like this for Edinburgh and in due course Scotland he will be an absolute star.

Well we definitely have to take a closer look at Welsh and Shiels I think they are potential stars.

We also have Dickinson to come back (losehead only!!!!!!!) He was in good form for Sale before injury and will be coming into his prime in the next few years

I'm a huge Chunk fan for what he has done for Edinburgh. However I think his time may have come at International level.

We have Chunk He's our Man He'sthe Prop from Prestonpans With a nic nac paddy wak Give a prop the ball Chunks the man to ruck and maul

Welsh has been the form loosehead Scottish prop this season. He gave Mike Ross a torrid time in the heinekin cup and has spent the last 3 pro 12 games at tight head giving Heninke Van Der Merve, one of the best 1's playing in Europre an equally tough time. He is ready not in threee months or three years time but right now.

robinson refuses to pick him, even for the bench because his appearance on the interrnational field is likely to show up starkly Robinson's continued refusal to select him as a nonsense. That is why the much improved but hugely inferior Ed Kalman was chosen as bench for the last two Sunday games. His selection puts no pressure on Robinson's preferred props.

With the Ireland game on a Saturday, Murray will be restored at tight head and either Cross will be on the bench or possibly the outrageously mediocre Al Dickinson.
I dont know what Sale games a previous poster has been watching to suggest that he has been on good club form. It certainly wasnt the recent Leicester game when Sale conceded a penalty try from a scrum within 7 minutes of the start of the game!

Dickinson has done nothing in his last few appearances at the world cup to suggest that he is an international class loosehead, let alone one that can actually switch to the tight.
The one scrum he started on the right side against Argentina our scrum was actually pushed back about 10 yards!

One other thing to bear in mind is thinking about Mike Ross's progress from bench player for London irish to starter for Leinster to international class prop. this all happened within two seasons and there is nothing to suggest that Welsh is any less ready to step up a level than Ross was.

However i doudt that Robinson will have the guts to select him.

To be fair isn't the saying that props get better as they get older. Dickinson has being playing pretty well for Sale. Hes 28 now so he should be heading into his better years as a prop. Remember that Jacobsen only became a decent prop never mind international class around 2/3 years ago.

Send him down to the Scarlets if you don't want him

Quite keen for Nel to get here - he scored a cracking try at the weekend, incidentally, for anyone who doesn't catch Super 15. I don't think that Scotland would claim him as he has a reasonable shout at playing for the Bokke over the next 10 years.

On the loose side, much as I love Chunk (the only professional athlete with larger moobs than me), he is making too many mistakes now and the time has come to try other options. First in line has got to be Welsh. Jim Telfer described him as being one of the 'naturally strongest' men he's ever worked with and I would think that's a fairly large recommendation. I don't recall a game for Glasgow where Jon hasn't at least had parity with his opposite number and has mashed a load of highly rated names.

On the tight, it will probably be Shiells (never seen him play, but after mauling Hayman, he's starting to come with a reputation) but I still have one eye on Glasgow's Michael Cusack. He's a big boy and has come on exponentially with professional training. By the same token, he's 28 now and, well, have you ever tried to convince a Yorkshireman that being Scottish on a sports field is awesome...?

Sad to say that Murray may never capture the heights of 2008-2009 when he was one of the most fearsome on the planet. I don't think he's ever come back fully after the injuries he sustained on the Lions tour. And don't get me started about the treatment of him on that.

Think it was Moray Low not John Welsh who went to the World Cup and didn't play.

MacKnocked-on wrote:Think it was Moray Low not John Welsh who went to the World Cup and didn't play.

I realised that about 2 seconds after I posted it. Back on the coffee now.

Blimey is it just me or have the Scots on 606v2 started getting a bit nasty. Chunk's been ever popular and a great servant to Scots rugby til now, hasnt he?

I reckon he's a great player, who never gives anything other than 100%.

But most importantly he is currently our only option IMO.

On a general note I have been impressed by our scrum's performances this 6N's, I think the scrum has been a great platform so far; apart from during the last 1/4 of the French game. But I would hazard a guess that most props would struggle against the current French front row.

If Chunk looked jaded, I'd counter that propping against the French would take a lot out of most people's wider games, irrespective of their age.

Kalman didnt look great but none of the alternatives are ready yet IMO. I like the look of the young guys and they deserve a shot on the summer tour, even against the new Italian front row, but can not until then.

nickj wrote:Blimey is it just me or have the Scots on 606v2 started getting a bit nasty. Chunk's been ever popular and a great servant to Scots rugby til now, hasnt he?

And he was part of the Scottish front row that was going to take England to the cleaners!!

bathmad wrote:

nickj wrote:Blimey is it just me or have the Scots on 606v2 started getting a bit nasty. Chunk's been ever popular and a great servant to Scots rugby til now, hasnt he?

And he was part of the Scottish front row that was going to take England to the cleaners!!

Oh dear, bathmad, you are a pointless little individual, eh? England's scrum did well against Scotland, can't you just take that without gloating?

Alan Jacobson made some critical errors against France, but we can't let one bad match force us to move him on. None of the Other scottish options IMO are ready yet. He may have had a bad game but he is still the best we can do at the moment.

He needs to stop giving away penalties though.

Jacobsen has poor all of this 6Nations - if I was a Scottish fan I would be worried if he is the best there is.

The thing that annoys me about him is whenever he gets the ball he seems to drop it or give away a penalty, it is not so much nastiness just the realisation that one of the most popular Scottish players seems to be struggling and suggesting that it might be time for him to call it a day internationally.

Robinson will ease Jacobsen out in another 3 or 4 seasons and groom his successor (Jon Welsh) to be ready by then

Given that Jacobsen is now 33 and is in the worst shape he has ever been in, he shouldnt last 3 weeks let along another 3 years!

Anyone who has watched Glasgow regularly knows Welsh and Grant are better options at the moment. Welsh's recent quality run at 3 shows that he should at least get the bench for the remaining games, but Robinson knows that as soon as he is on the park everyone will see that he has made another selectorial bloomer by not picking Welsh sooner, so it wont happen.
Mike Ross will put Jacobsen under massive pressure at scrum time leading to continued mistakes in the loose as he attempts to make up for his poor scrummaging.

Welsh has to be Glasgow's leading scorer over the last couple of games.

Give the man the blue shirt and let's be done with it, Andy Robinson.

Welsh has been playing tighthead for Glasgow not loosehead. Discussions of his recent form are therefore pointless in the context of whether he should replace Jacobsen.

Welsh should have been on the bench ahead of Kalman, that much is obvious, but I've seen little evidence this season with Welsh at loosehead that he'd be better against Mas, Cole and Adam Jones than Jacobsen.

Allan Jacobsen has been outstanding for Edinburgh this season. One of the top carrying props in the HC and has been on solid form coming into the 6 Nations. He is our best loosehead. Better than Ryan Grant and most certainly better than Kyle Traynor. Ali Dickinson has played some good stuff for Sale this season but personally I don't think he is good enough a scrummager for international rugby. He's an option, and should be judged on merit, but Jacobsen would certainly be my first choice to start against Ireland and Italy.

Just because a player struggles against top class opposition (and Cole, Jones and Mas are three of the best out there), does not mean that the player is not our best option. When Welsh strings together some performances at loosehead that convince me he's on better form than Chunk, then I'll consider it.

Right now the better question is surely whether he should replace Cross? Not sure why Scotland fans like Cross and not Dickinson. To me they are both similar players. Excellent and tireless in the loose, weak in the scrum.

Welsh should be on the bench from now on though. He deserves to be on merit, and that he covers both sides is very helpful. Hopefully Euan Murray will come back in as well.

And guys the Warriors front row mullared an admittedly very poor Ospreys scrum on Friday night with Grant, Hall (MacArthur- better) and Welsh.

FES
Edinburgh's scrum has been on the back foot in most of their successful outings in europe.
They won 5 games, two of them very narrowly in spite of, not because of , their forward dispaly in the tight.

For Edinburgh Jacobsen has shown up pretty well in the loose, contributing to the Embro game plan.

However he is out of shape, even for his usual rotund self, and he has been bested by all three of his opponents so far in the 6N's. Given that Mike Ross and Castrogiovani are next two top class players I cant see him getting the better of them. So you are basically saying that even though he is likely to be outplayed by all 5 of his opponents its not worth giving Welsh a go because he needs to prove himself for another couple of seasons with further dominant performances?

This kind of dead man's shoes thinking is what holds the national team back. This is the why Greg Laidlaw didnt go to the world cup even though he was the outsanding 9 in Scotland last year. Sure he had repalced Blair for nearly two years as first choice at Ediburgh but he didnt have 75 plus caps did he? No he didnt, because he had only been selected once a couple of seasons ago when still an inexperienced player. He cant get that experience unless he is selected.

Unless a coach is prepared to use the evidence of his eyes and pick on form, the progress of any international team is likely, as in the case of Scotland, to be severely hampered.

sensisball wrote:FES
Edinburgh's scrum has been on the back foot in most of their successful outings in europe.
They won 5 games, two of them very narrowly in spite of, not because of , their forward dispaly in the tight.

For Edinburgh Jacobsen has shown up pretty well in the loose, contributing to the Embro game plan.

However he is out of shape, even for his usual rotund self, and he has been bested by all three of his opponents so far in the 6N's. Given that Mike Ross and Castrogiovani are next two top class players I cant see him getting the better of them. So you are basically saying that even though he is likely to be outplayed by all 5 of his opponents its not worth giving Welsh a go because he needs to prove himself for another couple of seasons with further dominant performances?

This kind of dead man's shoes thinking is what holds the national team back. This is the why Greg Laidlaw didnt go to the world cup even though he was the outsanding 9 in Scotland last year. Sure he had repalced Blair for nearly two years as first choice at Ediburgh but he didnt have 75 plus caps did he? No he didnt, because he had only been selected once a couple of seasons ago when still an inexperienced player. He cant get that experience unless he is selected.

Unless a coach is prepared to use the evidence of his eyes and pick on form, the progress of any international team is likely, as in the case of Scotland, to be severely hampered.

Sensisball - did you really just give FES enough rope to deliver his speech about the fact that you can only replace established internationals with form players in their positions and that replacing them out of hope rather than expectation in light of club form is simply folly? Did you honestly? Enormous 'facepalm' icon here.

We'd be back to the bad old days of last year debating about why we couldn't get rid of Parks because apparently none of his potential replacements were in form.

But seriously, I think that every position in the Scotland squad needs looked at closely and there cannot be favourites or incumbents any more. Chunk is actually superbly mobile in the loose and he has sporadic moments of excellence whilst propping (taking Cole to the cleaners at the World Cup being just one recent example) but the fact that he can also fall to pieces against quality opposition and often pops up in the three quarter line to drop a ball cannot be ignored.

Welsh has said he is happy at either loose or tight and I would be willing to see how he is on the loose, actually. For what it's worth (and that may not be much) Cuttita says that he could be good enough for either side.

sensisball wrote:So you are basically saying that even though he is likely to be outplayed by all 5 of his opponents its not worth giving Welsh a go because he needs to prove himself for another couple of seasons with further dominant performances?

This kind of dead man's shoes thinking is what holds the national team back. This is the why Greg Laidlaw didnt go to the world cup even though he was the outsanding 9 in Scotland last year. Sure he had repalced Blair for nearly two years as first choice at Ediburgh but he didnt have 75 plus caps did he? No he didnt, because he had only been selected once a couple of seasons ago when still an inexperienced player. He cant get that experience unless he is selected.

1. Welsh was dreadful at Glasgow last season. Completely fell off the radar and Ryan Grant replaced him. This season, since coming back from injury about 8 weeks ago, he has played tighthead. I'm curious as to the "dominant performances" at loosehead you are referring to. There is absolutely no question, Jacobsen is playing loosehead for Scotland on form. If you'd rather play Welsh then fine, all entitled to their opinion, but just don't pretend it has anything to do with form and Welsh winning the shirt on merit, it doesn't. You just want to take a punt on a younger player because Jacobsen is struggling against what are frankly quite a string of top class tighthead props. It may work, it did last season with Jackson as GC noted above.

2. Laidlaw not going to the WC is completely different. Laidlaw was a form 9 and should have gone. I certainly thought so, and thought Robinson made a mistake taking others ahead of him. By taking Lawson, Cusiter (in particular) and Blair he was opting for experience ahead of form. Something I would never advocate.

123456789 wrote:Although he has been a great servant to Scotland for several years and has always been a fan favourite, I think it could possibly be time for him to go for several reasons:

The scrum is going backwards each time we play a top team and nearly always leading to a penalty, I firmly believe that if our scrum had been stronger and Mike Blair hadn't been injured we would have scored another try

He is constantly giving away penalties at needless times for example when we have the ball or they have slow ball in their own half

He cannot catch

He is 33 years old and will not be playing at the next world cup

The problem is, who will replace him?




[b]

With your flyhalf crisis can you so readily dismiss him?

Taff, there has to be a link there (fly half and Chunk), but I just can't see it?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Taff, there has to be a link there (fly half and Chunk), but I just can't see it?

Got to be worth a go,surely.Couldnt be worse than Desperate Dan?

Right, got you now, Chunk to 10. Hmm, not exactly the solution that I was hoping for!

It would solve the tackling problem, although I would love to see some of his kicks - must be tough when you can not see where your foot it to kick it due to tummyitus