Does Boxing need to die in order to reinvent itself!!!

First topic message reminder :

"Cleverly is learning with the title................."

Povetkin is a "World" champion but declares himself out of "World league"......

Let's face it something has to "Mean" something for people to be bothered!!!!......That's why we have thirty/forty somethings ruling the sport!!..Why would people be interested in Boxing when any old muppet can be a champion????

The young talent is out there but Boxing ddoesn't interest it and why should it???

In Golf..Tennis etc...Majors mean something!!! as in any other sport!!

Real shame but I just don't see an end to it as promoters run the sport and they have a vested interest!!

Hopefully it will kill itself and reinvent!!

oxring wrote:Ref: UFC
Whilst it is true that in most cases - the best fighters are in the Dana White's club - it is not true to say that all of the best fighters join him. Fedor - the probably the greatest MMA artist of all time - has never stepped foot inside a UFC octagon as a combatant. So the relationship isn't quite as simple as UFC=the best.

What is true, however - is that the casual fan sees UFC as MMA

And what is more worrying is that the casual fan sees fighting sports - as MMA.

Boxing needs a UFC like organisation to start buying up top fighters. Buy up enough fighters - and boxing has a chance at survival.

Course - who has the money to do that?

No but the last 3 fighters to beat him are now in the UFC. Also he didn't appear to want to fight Overeem the former Strikeforce champion, current (?) K1 champion & UFC no1 challenger although did sign up for the HW tournament but was beaton in the 1st round.

Fedor obviously had his reasons for not joining the UFC, rumours were that M1 Global his management & promo team weren't happy with the terms & possably the money but I don't think he was gonna earn more elsewhere, more likely they were going to earn less out of him fighting in the UFC. Since his 3 losses the UFC have no interest in him anymore. Although I have been a big fan of Fedor like many I feel he didn't evolve with the sport, didn't look to improve or fine tune some of his techniques & didn't look to try & get in better shape to cut to fighting at lhw, a division he may have done well in. All in all a case where both fans & fighter lost out, just look where he's fighting at now.

In fairness sohotnot - Fedor's had a decade (almost) at the top. Everyone gets old after a while - even him.

He's made enough from the sport. White ballsed up the bid to sign him - and as you say - the fans lost out from it.

Its too easy to say re:Fedor "look where he is now" as some sort of proof for the UFC - but it isn't. The time to sign him was 4/5 years ago - not last year. That's all an aside though - to get back to the point...
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For sure - the best currently are in the UFC - although some of the Pride fighters don't seem to get a fair crack of the whip in terms of admission to the UFC.

I wouldn't say Fedor didn;t evolve with the sport. He did. He was fighting and beating giants. His time is up and that's it. He got old.

oxring wrote:In fairness sohotnot - Fedor's had a decade (almost) at the top. Everyone gets old after a while - even him.

He's made enough from the sport. White ballsed up the bid to sign him - and as you say - the fans lost out from it.

Its too easy to say re:Fedor "look where he is now" as some sort of proof for the UFC - but it isn't. The time to sign him was 4/5 years ago - not last year. That's all an aside though - to get back to the point...
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For sure - the best currently are in the UFC - although some of the Pride fighters don't seem to get a fair crack of the whip in terms of admission to the UFC.

Didn't want to believe it but yes even him! I was gutted when he lost to Werdun, couldn't believe it. He was the first fighter I really watched in MMA after his younger brother fought A guy I new & trained in the same gym with, people said check out Fedor. There was a lot of interest for years about Fedor & the UFC & also a lot of rumours surrounding M1 Global as well as Dana messing it up.

With regards to Pride fighters there are & have been a lot who fought in the UFC, the weekends card in Japan had a few, but I know what you mean Dana's always tried to big up his own fighters whilst taking a swipe at others.

Yep. I was thinking Satoshi Ishii - and the fiasco around his entry into MMA - UFC want him - now he has to prove himself - all a bit odd really.

Still - from our ship of boxing - I can't really cast any stones at the way the UFC is run.

azania wrote:I wouldn't say Fedor didn;t evolve with the sport. He did. He was fighting and beating giants. His time is up and that's it. He got old.

I have to disagree with you there azania as would many others. He basically just stuck with what he'd always done (don't fix what aint broke I know) at his training camp in Russia. He never took advantage of the new MMA specific gyms that were opening around the world, the training techniques & better sparring. Also he was often to wild with his punching, the guy had power & could've worked on tightening it up. I still think he could've cut to 205 & got some decent wins after those defeats, there are some huge guys at HW now who can really fight as well, I believe size has been a factor.

oxring wrote:Yep. I was thinking Satoshi Ishii - and the fiasco around his entry into MMA - UFC want him - now he has to prove himself - all a bit odd really.

Still - from our ship of boxing - I can't really cast any stones at the way the UFC is run.

Yes there is some weird & contrdictory things with them with regards to entry or being cut/not getting cut. They apparently have a 3 loss & out deal which isn't always enforced especially if your a legend Tito Ortiz, a crowd pleaser Roy Nelson or British Hardy. All about bums on seats as Frank used to say.

sohotnot wrote:

azania wrote:I wouldn't say Fedor didn;t evolve with the sport. He did. He was fighting and beating giants. His time is up and that's it. He got old.

I have to disagree with you there azania as would many others. He basically just stuck with what he'd always done (don't fix what aint broke I know) at his training camp in Russia. He never took advantage of the new MMA specific gyms that were opening around the world, the training techniques & better sparring. Also he was often to wild with his punching, the guy had power & could've worked on tightening it up. I still think he could've cut to 205 & got some decent wins after those defeats, there are some huge guys at HW now who can really fight as well, I believe size has been a factor.

I have to disagree. His ground game was first class. His wrestling at near on olympic standard and a very good boxer (MMA standard).

The Werdum loss was a freak loss. Got caught in an armbar. Werdum is one of the best bjj practioners and one slip on the ground against him is a snapped arm.

He got beat up plain and simple against Silva. Many say it was a size thing, but being beaten by Henderson means it was more than size. His ship had sailed.

The guy was simply the very best.

azania wrote:

sohotnot wrote:

azania wrote:I wouldn't say Fedor didn;t evolve with the sport. He did. He was fighting and beating giants. His time is up and that's it. He got old.

I have to disagree with you there azania as would many others. He basically just stuck with what he'd always done (don't fix what aint broke I know) at his training camp in Russia. He never took advantage of the new MMA specific gyms that were opening around the world, the training techniques & better sparring. Also he was often to wild with his punching, the guy had power & could've worked on tightening it up. I still think he could've cut to 205 & got some decent wins after those defeats, there are some huge guys at HW now who can really fight as well, I believe size has been a factor.

I have to disagree. His ground game was first class. His wrestling at near on olympic standard and a very good boxer (MMA standard).

The Werdum loss was a freak loss. Got caught in an armbar. Werdum is one of the best bjj practioners and one slip on the ground against him is a snapped arm.

He got beat up plain and simple against Silva. Many say it was a size thing, but being beaten by Henderson means it was more than size. His ship had sailed.

The guy was simply the very best.

I agree that his ground game was 1st class, I've seen him do some unbelievable things, being slammed down headfirst & then taking the guy straight out! But his boxing even at MMA standard was not great & seemed to get worse. Agree to an extent with Werdum would've liked to have seen a rematch as he'd handled himself well. Silva 1st round he fought well but as you say Silva just beat him up next round & size was a factor. Agree with you on Henderson but I just feel in the latter part of his career & in the Henderson fight, he was to wild, still had that Pride style about him, Its different in the cage to the ring, thats my point about evolving with the sport, MMA now is different to Pride as is UFC to what it was 5 years ago & more, its less wild, more refined & technical & will continue to be. It wasn't just about getting old.

The cage and ring difference is important. You cant do "dirty" boxing in the ring and leaning on the cage is a speciality in itself.

azania wrote:The cage and ring difference is important. You cant do "dirty" boxing in the ring and leaning on the cage is a speciality in itself.

Yes unfortunately it is. Wall & Stall, Lay & Pray 2 practices I'm not so keen on but at least now the ref splits it up if there's nothing constructive happening. It always makes me cringe when I hear joe Rogan say dirty boxing during a fight or even Randy Cotoure dirty boxing.