Greatest British Fighter Ever

Nothing too serious this and a pretty simple poll but thought as it is a little quiet round here I'd get people's thoughts on the greatest British fighter ever. As tends to be the case I will almost certainly have forgotten someone so if this is the case and you pick other please specify. Also if anyone wants to explain their picks they are more than welcome

Who made Waingro a mod?

AlexHuckerby wrote:Who made Waingro a mod?

I miss him, I am going to vote for lewis, he was quality mate imo l*l

Jeff - as an occasional visitor from the cricket boards, I'm probably punching far above my weight and have already outstayed my welcome but I would put in a shout for Randolph Turpin. He's 'Other' I've voted for.

Calzaghe.

But many here will vote for people they only read about just to show off about so called boxing knowledge.

A far from unreasonable shout guildford, suspect we will hear far worse claims than Turpin before this process is done and dusted.

Jimmy Wilde (I now have an English girlfriend so cant be accused of biased nationalism)

azania wrote:

But many here will vote for people they only read about just to show off about so called boxing knowledge.

Yes because perish the thought anyone on here could have actual boxing knowledge.

Have changed my mind between Wilde and Lewis (Ted) plenty of times in the past, but right now I'm happy sticking with Wilde. Tremendously consistent, and you'd have to wonder if the Flyweight division would have survived had it not been for his influence.

Ted still a brilliant fighter, whose globe-trotting exploits were incredible, but he isn't as big a factor in the historical stakes of his best weight class as Wilde is in his. Could argue, of course, that his wins over Britton are more impressive that anything on Wilde's ledger, but ultimately Britton did still have the edge. So too did Wilde's best opposition in many cases - Lee, Villa, Herman - but outside of that he was consistent and dominant in a way which Lewis fell just short of.

azania wrote:Calzaghe.

But many here will vote for people they only read about just to show off about so called boxing knowledge.

Indeed! I think Calzaghe too purely because ive watched him since he started and dont think anyone comes close.

Not going to sit and pretend i know the majority on the list, then google/wikipedia them, then tell stories about how much i watched them!

War JOE!

Am yet to vote Chris but think on the Lewis Wilde argument I am leaning towards Wilde, may be cruel on Lewis because welter has traditionally had more strength in depth and has certainly had two or three of the greatest ever to grace it but as you have alluded to Wilde is rated in his division in a way Ted simply is not and it probably has to count for something.

However the back of my mind I am sorely tempted to come out of left field and vote for Welsh, think he gets woefully under rated and when you can boast a record of names such as Leonard, Wolgast, Ritchie and Driscoll you are obviously some fighter, however the no decision issue clouds my thinking a little and the thread is best ever not most under rated.

Interesting shout on Welsh, Jeff, and one that I wouldn't necessarily dismiss too quickly. As you say, he has the wins, in fact his list of victims perhaps reads better than anyone else's to have emerged from these shores.

The 'No Decision' issue is a bit of a confusing factor, but I suppose it boils down to how skeptical each given individual is with regards to it. While it's definitely not concrete, I think there is enough on Welsh's record to give him the benefit of the doubt the majority of the time.

Certainly top five for me anyhow, tussling with Buchanan for the title of Britain's best ever Lightweight.

I have voted for Wilde, partly because he was a terrific fighter with an outstanding ledger, but primarily because I like to show off my so called boxing knowledge.

I have only ever read about him, but due to the fact I possess the intelligence to read, digest information, make relevant comparisons and draw my own conclusions, I feel safe in my choice.

Actually, scrap that, I want to change my vote to Dereck Chisora as he is the last boxer I saw on the tele.

Wilde is considered the one of if not the best flyweight of all time. No one can say they followed him because he was active a century ago, but the question is greatest EVER British fighter, not greatest EVERbritish boxer you have seen.

Lennox is a great fight as is Calzaghe but Wilde is a all time p4p great fighter

Nice one Rowley!

i voted for lewis, the names on his cv are brilliant.

Vitali Klitschko
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield (twice....come on, it was twice)

as well as good fighters like:
Donovan Ruddock
David Tua
Oliver McCall
Frank Bruno
Shannon Briggs

he seemed to get better with age and absolutely steamrolled his way through fighters like grant, botha and golota.

and his olympic gold (not for britain). olympic golds are always worth considering in someone's career, but who he beat made it more special.

the fact he beat everyone he faced by avenging both losses with stoppages (mccall is a weird one i know) is a plus too.

Oasis whilst I would not disagree too strenuously because if my vote was going to go to a modern guy it would be Lewis am not too sure how much praise he can get for the Tyson fight, who was little but a shell at that point. Even Vitali, whilst a valid win and impressive has to have the caveat against it that it was a little fortunate and irrespective of what you think may have happened had it progressed was also whilst he was behind on the cards.

It is the nature of the division that the talent pool at the weight at heavy is not always that deep but I have always felt Lewis's ledger fell more in the realms of the good or solid rather than the brilliant, also no getting round the fact that whilst it was largely not his fault he either didn't fight the best guys around during his reign (Bowe) or fought them later than would be prefered (Holy, possibly and Tyson definitely). As I say not always his fault but still a consideration for me.

OasisBFC wrote:i voted for lewis, the names on his cv are brilliant.

Vitali Klitschko
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield (twice....come on, it was twice)

as well as good fighters like:
Donovan Ruddock
David Tua
Oliver McCall
Frank Bruno
Shannon Briggs

he seemed to get better with age and absolutely steamrolled his way through fighters like grant, botha and golota.

and his olympic gold (not for britain). olympic golds are always worth considering in someone's career, but who he beat made it more special.

the fact he beat everyone he faced by avenging both losses with stoppages (mccall is a weird one i know) is a plus too.

Evander Holyfield was a great name.

Mike Tyson? What? Are you serious? Danny Williams must be mint then.

Vital Klitschko? The guy who was beating Lewis up and ahead on the score cards? Lost to a cut, Lennox said he would give rematch, but instead retired??

HAHA!

d260005p wrote:

OasisBFC wrote:i voted for lewis, the names on his cv are brilliant.

Vitali Klitschko
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield (twice....come on, it was twice)

as well as good fighters like:
Donovan Ruddock
David Tua
Oliver McCall
Frank Bruno
Shannon Briggs

he seemed to get better with age and absolutely steamrolled his way through fighters like grant, botha and golota.

and his olympic gold (not for britain). olympic golds are always worth considering in someone's career, but who he beat made it more special.

the fact he beat everyone he faced by avenging both losses with stoppages (mccall is a weird one i know) is a plus too.

Evander Holyfield was a great name.

Mike Tyson? What? Are you serious? Danny Williams must be mint then.

Vital Klitschko? The guy who was beating Lewis up and ahead on the score cards? Lost to a cut, Lennox said he would give rematch, but instead retired??

HAHA!

You voted for JC not really much better than Lewis, if at all, also laughing at someone elses view makes it seem like you're being a bit of a dweeb about it.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

d260005p wrote:

OasisBFC wrote:i voted for lewis, the names on his cv are brilliant.

Vitali Klitschko
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield (twice....come on, it was twice)

as well as good fighters like:
Donovan Ruddock
David Tua
Oliver McCall
Frank Bruno
Shannon Briggs

he seemed to get better with age and absolutely steamrolled his way through fighters like grant, botha and golota.

and his olympic gold (not for britain). olympic golds are always worth considering in someone's career, but who he beat made it more special.

the fact he beat everyone he faced by avenging both losses with stoppages (mccall is a weird one i know) is a plus too.

Evander Holyfield was a great name.

Mike Tyson? What? Are you serious? Danny Williams must be mint then.

Vital Klitschko? The guy who was beating Lewis up and ahead on the score cards? Lost to a cut, Lennox said he would give rematch, but instead retired??

HAHA!

You voted for JC not really much better than Lewis, if at all, also laughing at someone elses view makes it seem like you're being a bit of a dweeb about it.

havent heard that word in ten years. Poor Darren Webb.

Nope. I just think its a joke that someone could class Vitali on his record as a brilliant victory.

Plus i was never abusive in any way shape or form, so to kick off and start calling me a "dweeb", which, by the way, is a little bit funny, is your choice.

Everyone has a view

d260005p wrote:

azania wrote:Calzaghe.

But many here will vote for people they only read about just to show off about so called boxing knowledge.

Indeed! I think Calzaghe too purely because ive watched him since he started and dont think anyone comes close.

Not going to sit and pretend i know the majority on the list, then google/wikipedia them, then tell stories about how much i watched them!

War JOE!

Maybe we should have a "best you've watched on tele" poll instead then. That way any toddlers on the forum can vote for David Haye or Ricky Hatton......

Or could be the fact that Joe Calzaghe holds numerouse records within the SMW division, retire undefeated, 2 x World Champ etc etc. But yeh Toddler.

David Haye would NEVER be on there. Neither will Hatton.

Hatton id presume would be the most popular British Fighter ever.

d260005p wrote:Nope. I just think its a joke that someone could class Vitali on his record as a brilliant victory.

Plus i was never abusive in any way shape or form, so to kick off and start calling me a "dweeb", which, by the way, is a little bit funny, is your choice.

Everyone has a view

I do have to laugh at you criticising Lewis’s CV while voting for Calzaghe who gets heavily criticised for his lack of quality opposition.

Your choice

[quote="d260005p]

Vital Klitschko? The guy who was beating Lewis up
[/quote]

To me - your opinion became null and void after that comment and I shall now have reservations over any comment you have on boxing in the future

Good day

No1Jonesy wrote:[quote="d260005p]

Vital Klitschko? The guy who was beating Lewis up

To me - your opinion became null and void after that comment and I shall now have reservations over any comment you have on boxing in the future

Good day[/quote]

And why would my opinions become null and void if i was stating a fact which you obviously find hard to swallow.

Vitali Klitshcko was indeed ahead on points. FACT.

Im not saying Lewis was pants by any stretch of the imagination. He is one of my all time favourite fighters behind Juan Manuel Marquez.

I just think that Vitali should not be mentioned as a "class victory" when quite clearlty it was not. Both in the ring (at his heaviest) and also with the comments afterwards.

So a cut isn't a real way to beat someone is that what you're saying? Or that Vitali isn't good enough to get a good victory from?

A cut is a legit way to win. That isn't the point about Lewis' victory. The point is that he was beig beaten up when the cuts happened. Without the cuts, who knows what would have happened.

Completely agree AZ. But bearing in mind he came in at his highest weight ever, and that Vitali came in at short notice and proceeded to land punches all night long. Yes it was stopped on points and i am not disputing the fact it was a WIN at the end of the day. I just simply can not fathom how some people see it as a fantastic victory, along with the Mike Tyson Debacle.

CUTS, not POINTS

Calzaghe - great fighter, opposition questionable especially in his career twilight.

Lewis - Quality opposition throughout. Took on by far the best version of Vitali Klitschko and despite the manner of the victory, he was on his way to turning the fight around. Lewis was a renowned slow starter, even moreso against opposition he hadn't really prepared well for.

It was a fantastic win to top a career unrivalled in British Boxing in my eyes. Even at his worst he defeated a top class heavyweight. And to deny Vitali was top quality that night is doing him a dis-service.

Oh, did I see you knocking Tyson and making out he was garbage because he lost to Danny Williams late in his career?

I can't take you seriously.

Not an officianado on boxing , i have gone with Calzaghe as the Lacy fight is one of my favourites

d260005p wrote:

No1Jonesy wrote:[quote="d260005p]

Vital Klitschko? The guy who was beating Lewis up

To me - your opinion became null and void after that comment and I shall now have reservations over any comment you have on boxing in the future

Good day

And why would my opinions become null and void if i was stating a fact which you obviously find hard to swallow.

Vitali Klitshcko was indeed ahead on points. FACT.

Im not saying Lewis was pants by any stretch of the imagination. He is one of my all time favourite fighters behind Juan Manuel Marquez.

I just think that Vitali should not be mentioned as a "class victory" when quite clearlty it was not. Both in the ring (at his heaviest) and also with the comments afterwards.
[/quote]

You said originally beating Lewis up not ahead on points. I also draw your attention to Taylor v Chavez fight where Taylor was ahead on points but was took a beating for his troubles and was eventually stopped.

As you put it, Vitali was ahead on points FACT, Vitali lost the fight by TKO 6th round FACT.

Didn't you know already SOF, that putting "FACT" after something instantly validates your argument and you win?

I worry for the people who say that on the internet when they actually do have a debate in the pub. If someone did that down my local and shouted "FACT" after stating something, I'm pretty sure they'd be thrown out.

Anyone who claims that Vitali was 'beating Lewis up' at the time of the stoppage has either never seen the fight and is simply recycling lines they've heard from others, or is more likely trying to get a rise out of others. No doubting that Vitali was comfortably the better man in the opening four rounds; however, Lewis took the last two clearly, and was certainly well back in to the fight. His right hand was beginning to land with real regularity. Take a look at the way Vitali tottered back to his corner at the end of the sixth round and then tell me that he would have gone on to administer a beating on Lewis. Just wouldn't have happened.

Arguably Lewis' best 'result', but not his finest hour given the circumstances; that said, let's not act as if Vitali was the victim of some kind of rank injustice.

This is the kind of debate that most riles me about the Lewis Vitali fight people saying things as definitives when there are so many imponderables left. As Chris has said Lewis had won the last two and Vitali did look unsteady on his way back to the corner but cannot be escaped Lewis was 38 year old and so if Vitali can get through the next round or get a foothold back in the fight Lewis could have started to feel the pace and who knows what happens if Vitali is still there in around the 10th or 11th, however equally as possible Lewis was getting to him and could have had him out of there in the next couple. However is worth remembering in the absence of knockdowns or even rounds Lewis would have to have won five of the last six to take the fight on points

Better to deal in what happened than what might or might not have happened and what happened is Lewis won by 6th round TKO by a valid but slightly fortunate method

d260005p wrote:

No1Jonesy wrote:[quote="d260005p]

Vital Klitschko? The guy who was beating Lewis up

To me - your opinion became null and void after that comment and I shall now have reservations over any comment you have on boxing in the future

Good day

And why would my opinions become null and void if i was stating a fact which you obviously find hard to swallow.

Vitali Klitshcko was indeed ahead on points. FACT.

Im not saying Lewis was pants by any stretch of the imagination. He is one of my all time favourite fighters behind Juan Manuel Marquez.

I just think that Vitali should not be mentioned as a "class victory" when quite clearlty it was not. Both in the ring (at his heaviest) and also with the comments afterwards.
[/quote]

I will answer a question with a question:

Since when does being behind on the scorecards solely mean you are getting beaten up?

I can accept Lewis was behind on the cards but... and this is a very big BUT (Nicky Minaj esque if you like) your opinion that he was getting beat up is not a Fact..... FACT!!!!

88Chris05 wrote:Anyone who claims that Vitali was 'beating Lewis up' at the time of the stoppage has either never seen the fight and is simply recycling lines they've heard from others, or is more likely trying to get a rise out of others.

Seeing as it is Az, I would go with option 2.

Facts are facts. VK was ahead. At the point of the stoppage, he was 4-2 up for me. Lewis won the last 2 rounds. VK was no longer as composed as he was in the first 4 rounds. Both were gassing badly/ I dont buy into the argument of VK being a late replacement do Lewis didn't prepare for him. the same applies to VK.

Cuts are legit way to win a fight. After all, you have to hit the bloke ot cut him. But the punch that caused the punch was a glancing blow. The hard shots VK recieved didn't cut him. Unlucky son but them's the breaks.

Still a good win for Lennox but somewhat lucky in the manner of the win. VK was beating him up in the fight. FACT!!!!

Ive said before on another thread that I actually dont think there is a great deal of difference, if any, between Calzaghe and Lewis in terms of resume. In terms of the big "names" for Lewis you have Tyson, Holyfield and Klitschko. For Calzaghe you have Jones and Hopkins. I think Jones and Tyson are pretty comparable. Both way past their best when they were beaten. Hopkins I would say is comparable to Holyfield. Probably better with the value of hindsight given that Hopkins went on to become top man while Holyfield nosedived quite dramatically post Lewis.

Calzaghe probably had more duff defences than Lewis but the likes of Eubank, Lacy and Kessler are good wins as well as solid wins over guys like Brewer, Mitchell, Bika. Pretty comparable to the vicotries Lewis had over the heavyweight division he occupied.

Both guys missed out on their biggest rival arguably, Lewis with Bowe in the early 1990s and Calzaghe with Ottke in the early 2000s. I both cases is was probably more the other guys fault.

Calzaghe has the added bonus of being unbeaten with no poor losses to the likes of McCall and Rahman. But Lewis probably holds the advantage in terms of ambition, and of course the heavyweight division being flagship.

But in terms of record and acheivement its pretty close I think. I think what seperates them in most peoples mind is the stigma surrounding Calzaghe of being unambitious. And Lewis existed in a flagship division with huge names and rivalries both domestically and in the U.S which elevated his status.

AzI've had a fair few fights, both in the ring and out and I don't think Vitali and Lewis was the one sided beatdown you're making out. VK's face. Lewis' face.

Being "beaten up" means one sided.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:AzI've had a fair few fights, both in the ring and out and I don't think Vitali and Lewis was the one sided beatdown you're making out. VK's face. Lewis' face.

Being "beaten up" means one sided.

You shouldn't be having fights out of the ring.

One guy being marked up more than the other is not really a reflection as to who was winning the fight.

Facts are facts. Nothing I wrote is wrong or inaccurate. FACT

azania wrote:

JabMachineMK2 wrote:AzI've had a fair few fights, both in the ring and out and I don't think Vitali and Lewis was the one sided beatdown you're making out. VK's face. Lewis' face.

Being "beaten up" means one sided.

You shouldn't be having fights out of the ring.

One guy being marked up more than the other is not really a reflection as to who was winning the fight.

Facts are facts. Nothing I wrote is wrong or inaccurate. FACT

Stating the Vitali was up on the cards is a fact. Stating that he was beating Lewis up is an opinion. And wrong.

Can't believe anyone could vote for Hamed,good fighter but best British fighter of all time come off it.

Thank god I missed this thread.

I've gone for Ted Lewis slightly ahead of Wilde, his wonderful achievement in becoming british champion from Featherweight to light heavyweight is overlooked by most and i'd wager will never be replicated. That's the equivalent of say Ricky Burns doing it, something which is never going to happen, the brutal series with Britton secured the legacy of the pair.

Those two, Driscoll and Welsh are streets ahead of the rest with the ruefully under rated Owen Moran coming in 5th.

Wilde for me.

It wasnt Jeff - It was me Tossed a 12 sided dice and got 4.

Can we have less of the Naz abuse, am sure as a mod there is some way I can change every vote to Naz, count yourself lucky I am a simpleton and it is beyond me.

Should perhaps just clear up at this point Alma, I didn't vote for him, similarly you are not obliged to either. I put him up as thought some people might do, given he currently has more votes than Moran Lynch and Conteh does appear the decision, whilst not a roaring success was not that far out of left field.