Lineen out Townsend in ?
+13
George Carlin
sensisball
Imperialbigdave
funnyExiledScot
SGD prop
donkeyprop
123456789
AsLongAsBut100ofUs
21st Century Schizoid Man
MacKnocked-on
RDW
Shifty
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: Club Rugby
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Lineen out Townsend in ?
WTF ?
Has Lineen walked ? wheres he going ? is he taking Robinsons job ?
Has Lineen walked ? wheres he going ? is he taking Robinsons job ?
alive555- Posts : 1229
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
What are you talking about?
I can;t find anything, anywhere about Sean Lineen leaving Glasgow?
I can;t find anything, anywhere about Sean Lineen leaving Glasgow?
Shifty- Posts : 7393
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Article in the scotsman this morning
RDW- Founder
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Scotland on Sunday reports this morning that Townsend has got Lineen's job who is now in discusions with the SRU about possible other roles. Maybe he will become attack coach?
MacKnocked-on- Posts : 1274
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
This is desperate news as Townsend is a bloody incompetent. Maybe Lineen has had enough after 7 years. We will go backwards at a fair rate of knots now - watch and see. The SRU really do not get it do they ?
21st Century Schizoid Man- Posts : 3564
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
MacKnocked-on wrote: Maybe he will become attack coach?
Hope not - Glasgow haven't exactly been in free scoring form!
RDW- Founder
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Really?!?! WTF? Is it April 1st already?
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Thanks for clearing that up, nothing on the web this morning, you had me baffled...
Shifty- Posts : 7393
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Lots of negative reaction from Glasgow fans on Twitter. Glasgow saying they'll make a statement on Monday so looks to be confirmed
RDW- Founder
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Now Robinson will have a puppet at Glasgow so Jackson, Weir, Hall, Barclay and Morrison will start regardless of form, will Townsend stop as attack coach now?
123456789- Posts : 1841
Join date : 2011-11-13
Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Learning his trade at club/regional level is the path that Townsend should have followed from the start, so in that respect, the SRU are on the right track, although I can't see what Townsend had done to justify being parachuted into the head coach role. It does make Peter Wright's comments about a glass ceiling between club & senior set up seem more valid.
I wonder what the reaction of the players who signed or extended contracts under Lineen will be.
Speaking of Lineen, I hope he is offered a meaningful role within the SRU. He does not deserve to be shafted to make room for the golden boy.
I wonder what the reaction of the players who signed or extended contracts under Lineen will be.
Speaking of Lineen, I hope he is offered a meaningful role within the SRU. He does not deserve to be shafted to make room for the golden boy.
donkeyprop- Posts : 35
Join date : 2011-06-13
Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
I can't believe this what has he done to get a chance with the pro teams ?? Surely there are far better options out there in the club game. What more can the likes of Charmers and Wright etc do before they get a chance.
Sorry to say that I can only see Glasgow going backwards, and I can't see a significant role for Lineen in teh SRU
Sorry to say that I can only see Glasgow going backwards, and I can't see a significant role for Lineen in teh SRU
SGD prop- Posts : 76
Join date : 2011-07-19
Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Yes it would appear the SRU are going to inflict the utterly clueless Townsend on the Warriors. What a slap in the face to Sean Lineen and the great Warriors support. Looks like Big Shade is staying - that is small compensation.Is this SRU pro-Edinburgh revenge at Glasgow bettering their counterparts from the East - at least in the Rabo ? Dark, dark days ahead for us with this idiot, Townsend naturally, in charge. I wonder if Richie Gray got wind of this clown coming and jumped ?
21st Century Schizoid Man- Posts : 3564
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
As said on another thread, this is absolutely awful news. I dispair. What on God's earth has Townsend done to deserve this???
The Glasgow job should go to the best man for the job. They should have conducted a thorough and detailed search, not just shoe-horned a failed coach already on the books into the post. This stinks of amateurism.
The Glasgow fans and players deserve so much more.
The Glasgow job should go to the best man for the job. They should have conducted a thorough and detailed search, not just shoe-horned a failed coach already on the books into the post. This stinks of amateurism.
The Glasgow fans and players deserve so much more.
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17072
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Yes it would appear the SRU are going to inflict the utterly clueless Townsend on the Warriors. What a slap in the face to Sean Lineen and the great Warriors support. Looks like Big Shade is staying - that is small compensation.Is this SRU pro-Edinburgh revenge at Glasgow bettering their counterparts from the East - at least in the Rabo ? Dark, dark days ahead for us with this idiot, Townsend naturally, in charge. I wonder if Richie Gray got wind of this clown coming and jumped ?
Why have you guys been turning everything into some sort of pro edinburgh anti glasgow conspiracy this season? SRU does anything, oh its those evil Edinburgers fault! How about all the money glasgow are getting this season to sign every player under the sun, while edinburgh have had scraps? Is that some sort of Anti-Glasgow conspiracy aswell? Theres always been friendly banter between the two sides, but the past 6 months or so, it seems to be getting quite bitter from both sides, main offenders recently being that Ayatolla78 guy on twitter who has some irrational hatred of all things edinburgh, and any edinburgh player in the scotland team is an outrage, and a couple of multi forum posters who have picked out every edinburgh player in the scotland team and laid the blame squarely at them, while dismissing any mistake by glasgow players. I know of Edinburgers who are the same, but not on forums.
As for Lineen leaving, not sure about it. On one hand, he has made glasgow very hard to beat, but on the other hand, I feel hes brought the team as far as he ever will. Glasgow are winning games consistently, but they are getting nothing out of their backs, something Lineen freely admits, yet there hasnt been any improvement at all on it. Look at how differently Weir played for the A side to how he plays for glasgow and it was night and day. I think they need someone else to get them to then take that next step up and not just be able to strangle teams, but dominate them and put big scores past them. If they can do that, theyll also go further in europe.
However! I do not agree one tiny bit with Townsend replacing him. Chalmers or Donaldson have earned the right to be given that chance, Townsend hasnt. Townsend was parachuted out of nowhere into a post far too high, and has failed, so why on earth does that give him a ticket to be a pro-team coach. he shouldve started out in the premiership and proved himself there.
Imperialbigdave- Posts : 1353
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
+1. Too true, IBD. C21st, there is no Glasgow vs Edinburgh bias, don't be ridiculous
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Guys,
ok I retract that remark re SRU pro-Edinburgh bias. I should say I am not anti-Edinburgh and theirs' is always the second result I look for. There are also large numbers going through to M'field for the Toulouse game next month - me included and I can assure you I will be shouting for the Burgh !
It remains that this is potentially disastrous for Glasgow Warriors and just like IBD has said plenty of others not least Chick Chalmers deserve a chance. Lineen has probably stood up to the SRU blazerati once too often so they want a whimpering poodle like Townsend to do as he is told. Have you heard him being interviewed - god almighty talk about non-inspiring.
ok I retract that remark re SRU pro-Edinburgh bias. I should say I am not anti-Edinburgh and theirs' is always the second result I look for. There are also large numbers going through to M'field for the Toulouse game next month - me included and I can assure you I will be shouting for the Burgh !
It remains that this is potentially disastrous for Glasgow Warriors and just like IBD has said plenty of others not least Chick Chalmers deserve a chance. Lineen has probably stood up to the SRU blazerati once too often so they want a whimpering poodle like Townsend to do as he is told. Have you heard him being interviewed - god almighty talk about non-inspiring.
21st Century Schizoid Man- Posts : 3564
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Guys,
ok I retract that remark re SRU pro-Edinburgh bias. I should say I am not anti-Edinburgh and theirs' is always the second result I look for. There are also large numbers going through to M'field for the Toulouse game next month - me included and I can assure you I will be shouting for the Burgh !
It remains that this is potentially disastrous for Glasgow Warriors and just like IBD has said plenty of others not least Chick Chalmers deserve a chance. Lineen has probably stood up to the SRU blazerati once too often so they want a whimpering poodle like Townsend to do as he is told. Have you heard him being interviewed - god almighty talk about non-inspiring.
agree, he does seem like a yes man, but then, I thought that the new regime would change that.
Imperialbigdave- Posts : 1353
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
From Herald
At the very least it shows that far from the professional teams being given increased autonomy as Mark Dodson, the SRU's chief executive, had promised, they continue to be run from Murrayfield since Andy Robinson, Scotland's head coach, is understood to have been closely involved in this decision
I cant believe this - its not making any sense given Glasgow are actually doing well. Is Lineen getting the tip job ? that would make a lot more sense
At the very least it shows that far from the professional teams being given increased autonomy as Mark Dodson, the SRU's chief executive, had promised, they continue to be run from Murrayfield since Andy Robinson, Scotland's head coach, is understood to have been closely involved in this decision
I cant believe this - its not making any sense given Glasgow are actually doing well. Is Lineen getting the tip job ? that would make a lot more sense
alive555- Posts : 1229
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
When interviewed Townsend does not come across as somebody with the capacity for coaching at this level.
MacKnocked-on- Posts : 1274
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
This is a fecking disaster, unless Lineen is getting the Scotland head coach job, which i assume he isnt.
Townsend has shown nothing to warrant this gilt edged chance to cut his teeth at Pro level.
I predict a disatrous season, low ticket sales and complete meltdown of a now hugely professional and competitive outfit.
is this how Robinson is going to deal with calls to bring for him to play more Warriors (Welsh, Harley, Grant, McArthur) to the Scotland team? Get Townsend to ruin the Warriors so their performances fall off and they leave for pastures new, giving up on the hope of playing for Scotland and going to Europe for the money instead?
I was quite happy after we got stuffed on Saturday, hoping that the bullet was being loaded by the SRU to dispatch Robinson, but i never saw this horrible turn of events coming.
it looks like being a dark, dark day for Scottish rugby.
Townsend has shown nothing to warrant this gilt edged chance to cut his teeth at Pro level.
I predict a disatrous season, low ticket sales and complete meltdown of a now hugely professional and competitive outfit.
is this how Robinson is going to deal with calls to bring for him to play more Warriors (Welsh, Harley, Grant, McArthur) to the Scotland team? Get Townsend to ruin the Warriors so their performances fall off and they leave for pastures new, giving up on the hope of playing for Scotland and going to Europe for the money instead?
I was quite happy after we got stuffed on Saturday, hoping that the bullet was being loaded by the SRU to dispatch Robinson, but i never saw this horrible turn of events coming.
it looks like being a dark, dark day for Scottish rugby.
sensisball- Posts : 964
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Would love to know what the players think about this.
Presumably we will never, ever know.
Presumably we will never, ever know.
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
My mummy always said of you can't say something nice
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
To describe this lunacy, I have specially invented a new word: rijokulous
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Well! That's an unbelievably stupid move.
Notch- Moderator
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
The stupidity of this decision is painfully obvious to everyone! From today's Herald:
Shock as SRU sack Lineen for Townsend
by Kevin Ferrie, Senior Sports Writer
Sean Lineen was a model of dignity yesterday as he put a brave face on his sacking as Glasgow Warriors head coach in favour of Gregor Townsend, Scotland's failed attack coach.
The revelation that the 50-year-old, whose team are on course to reach the RaboDirect Pro12 play-offs for the second time in three years, had been removed from his post sent shock waves round a Scottish rugby community that was already reeling from the national team's shocking display in losing a sixth successive Test.
"I was brought in and told this change was going to be made, and here's another opportunity to stay in Scottish rugby," Lineen said of the offer he was subsequently given to become head of acquisition for Scottish Rugby, as well as working with the national under-20 squad.
"I was given a great opportunity nine years ago when I joined Glasgow as backs coach and I've had a great nine years here. Gregor's getting that opportunity now."
Leaked to a newspaper with what looked like exceedingly convenient timing for the struggling national team management, the decision has the potential to demoralise Glasgow players, management and supporters, but Lineen expressed determination to prevent that from happening.
"The timing's a bit awkward but we've just got to deal with that," he said.
"It was a relief to get the chance to discuss this with everyone in our set-up, many of whom I've worked with for a number of years, before they found out from elsewhere, because none of them had read the paper it appeared in before I spoke to them this morning.
"They're all pretty shocked, but I said to them that this is professional sport and it's always going to happen sometime. It might have happened last season when, although there were reasons for it, we struggled, so I'm glad that we've been given this chance to show what we could do with a stronger squad.
"I'm leaving Glasgow but I'll be giving it everything to make sure we get into the play-offs. I hope everyone who cares for the club will do the same because this is a time when we need to support the players.
"Coaches come and go. Everyone moves on at some stage and I'm the longest-serving coach in the Pro12 so I was next.
"I'm proud of the players we've brought through at Glasgow, the likes of the Lamont brothers, the Evans boys and Richie Gray, and the role I'm going to be given is to identify talent throughout the world.
"We will now be doing that professionally in the marketplace, selling Scotland to the wider world. That is something that I can really look forward to doing because I believe I can do it well."
News of his departure in favour of Townsend, whose record in his only senior coaching job as Scotland's attack coach has been statistically appalling, ranged from bewilderment to horror among supporters who expressed strong views via various social media.
That the decision to make the change was made, and that without being advertised the post was filled by a coach whose only record is as a specialist who has not achieved his basic objectives in that role, could be interpreted as showing contempt for those supporters.
At the very least it shows that far from the professional teams being given increased autonomy as Mark Dodson, the SRU's chief executive, had promised, they continue to be run from Murrayfield since Andy Robinson, Scotland's head coach, is understood to have been closely involved in this decision.
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
What a shockingly awful decision. Completely misguided and out of the blue. Ferrie's article sums it up really.
nickj- Posts : 1063
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
AsLoni]gAsBut100ofUs wrote:The stupidity of this decision is painfully obvious to everyone! From today's Herald:
Scotland's failed attack coach
Is there anything else to be said. A monumental mistake by whoever proposed this. As for the Edinburgh Bias comments.... not really fair IMO.
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:The stupidity of this decision is painfully obvious to everyone! From today's Herald:Shock as SRU sack Lineen for Townsend
by Kevin Ferrie, Senior Sports Writer
Sean Lineen was a model of dignity yesterday as he put a brave face on his sacking as Glasgow Warriors head coach in favour of Gregor Townsend, Scotland's failed attack coach.
The revelation that the 50-year-old, whose team are on course to reach the RaboDirect Pro12 play-offs for the second time in three years, had been removed from his post sent shock waves round a Scottish rugby community that was already reeling from the national team's shocking display in losing a sixth successive Test.
"I was brought in and told this change was going to be made, and here's another opportunity to stay in Scottish rugby," Lineen said of the offer he was subsequently given to become head of acquisition for Scottish Rugby, as well as working with the national under-20 squad.
"I was given a great opportunity nine years ago when I joined Glasgow as backs coach and I've had a great nine years here. Gregor's getting that opportunity now."
Leaked to a newspaper with what looked like exceedingly convenient timing for the struggling national team management, the decision has the potential to demoralise Glasgow players, management and supporters, but Lineen expressed determination to prevent that from happening.
"The timing's a bit awkward but we've just got to deal with that," he said.
"It was a relief to get the chance to discuss this with everyone in our set-up, many of whom I've worked with for a number of years, before they found out from elsewhere, because none of them had read the paper it appeared in before I spoke to them this morning.
"They're all pretty shocked, but I said to them that this is professional sport and it's always going to happen sometime. It might have happened last season when, although there were reasons for it, we struggled, so I'm glad that we've been given this chance to show what we could do with a stronger squad.
"I'm leaving Glasgow but I'll be giving it everything to make sure we get into the play-offs. I hope everyone who cares for the club will do the same because this is a time when we need to support the players.
"Coaches come and go. Everyone moves on at some stage and I'm the longest-serving coach in the Pro12 so I was next.
"I'm proud of the players we've brought through at Glasgow, the likes of the Lamont brothers, the Evans boys and Richie Gray, and the role I'm going to be given is to identify talent throughout the world.
"We will now be doing that professionally in the marketplace, selling Scotland to the wider world. That is something that I can really look forward to doing because I believe I can do it well."
News of his departure in favour of Townsend, whose record in his only senior coaching job as Scotland's attack coach has been statistically appalling, ranged from bewilderment to horror among supporters who expressed strong views via various social media.
That the decision to make the change was made, and that without being advertised the post was filled by a coach whose only record is as a specialist who has not achieved his basic objectives in that role, could be interpreted as showing contempt for those supporters.
At the very least it shows that far from the professional teams being given increased autonomy as Mark Dodson, the SRU's chief executive, had promised, they continue to be run from Murrayfield since Andy Robinson, Scotland's head coach, is understood to have been closely involved in this decision.
"News of his departure in favour of Townsend, whose record in his only senior coaching job as Scotland's attack coach has been statistically appalling, ranged from bewilderment to horror among supporters who expressed strong views via various social media."
Is he, you know, talking about us?
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
GC kets hope so.
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
I kinda feel sorry for Townsend in all this - it was someone else's decision to go for him and he was never going to turn it down, especially if the alternative was getting the boot from the Scotland job.
Poor bugger will be reading all this negative press now too, not the best way to start a new job!
Poor bugger will be reading all this negative press now too, not the best way to start a new job!
RDW- Founder
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Promoting someone beyond their abilities is something people higher up the ladder should take responsibility for.
Equally Toonie should have the personal responsibility to decline due to reasons he himself doesn't feel he can manage a team like Glasgow.
Equally Toonie should have the personal responsibility to decline due to reasons he himself doesn't feel he can manage a team like Glasgow.
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
So you're saying if you were offered a more senior position at work, and more pay, that if you didn't have a massive amount of experience in it you would turn it down, even if it meant you would be fired? As opposed to accepting it and seeing it as a new challenge and a way to improve your career?
RDW- Founder
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Hard to say. I have turned down a promotion in the past becase I lacked the experience/knowlege to be effective in that role.
I suppose it's differant if the only option is promotion or the axe. If that were the case I would take promotion but surely you don't want to promote those who seem to be out of their depth in their current position?
I suppose it's differant if the only option is promotion or the axe. If that were the case I would take promotion but surely you don't want to promote those who seem to be out of their depth in their current position?
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Good point RDW. Townsend was never going to turn it down. But it smacks of a being a knee jerk reaction to me.
Townsend now looks like a lame duck before he's even started. He's already on the back foot with the rugby press and the fans, now this PR disaster.
I could have understood him being parachuted into an assistant role if he's so highly regarded but as a direct replacement?????
Lineen has every right to be royally f**ked off. He has been shafted good and proper. As have about 3 or 4 Scots coaches.
Townsend now looks like a lame duck before he's even started. He's already on the back foot with the rugby press and the fans, now this PR disaster.
I could have understood him being parachuted into an assistant role if he's so highly regarded but as a direct replacement?????
Lineen has every right to be royally f**ked off. He has been shafted good and proper. As have about 3 or 4 Scots coaches.
nickj- Posts : 1063
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:but surely you don't want to promote those who seem to be out of their depth in their current position?
But that's my general point just now - that's not Townsend's fault.
I know there will be a lot of disappointed Glasgow fans but it would be great that, once they've vented their frustrations, they can get behind Townsend and give him the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure they will.
After a season if he's crap then give him the boot!
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Smacks of that utter bell end Robinson being behind this. Has this gnob ever been to Glasgow or Firhill ? Go back to Bath you useless, pathetic, veggy t88T !
Someone with some sense at the SRU - Iain MacLaughlin - please sack Robinson, replace him with Lineen and, as ASBO stated earlier, give Townsend a job he may be able to actually do - car park attendant on the back pitches ! The fury at this amongst Warrior fans is already massive - wait until that slap head shows his face in Glasgow - what a welcome he will get !
This is the worst weekend in my time as a rugby supporter. Not a chance I will be re-newing my season ticket - and I'm not alone
Someone with some sense at the SRU - Iain MacLaughlin - please sack Robinson, replace him with Lineen and, as ASBO stated earlier, give Townsend a job he may be able to actually do - car park attendant on the back pitches ! The fury at this amongst Warrior fans is already massive - wait until that slap head shows his face in Glasgow - what a welcome he will get !
This is the worst weekend in my time as a rugby supporter. Not a chance I will be re-newing my season ticket - and I'm not alone
21st Century Schizoid Man- Posts : 3564
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
I know it is unlikely but what happens if Townsend gets Beattie and Barclay back on form (providing they re-sign), gets the backs moving and manages to bring in some more youngsters?
From reading his autobiography I think Townsend should be given some form of expansion role looking to increase pro rugby in Scotland, he clearly can't coach. It's time the SRU relinquished the current pro teams because unless they exist to win things individually rather than to help the Scottish team they will never win anything other than the 1872 cup therefore the Scottish players will never play at the highest level. I'm all for some involvement from the SRU to make sure that Scots are playing but removing a successful coach is ridiculous. Why not sell one of the existing teams then recreate the Borders team and give that role to Townsend? A team he has an attachment to and an area he understands rather than put a man who played expansive rugby in a position to coach a robust and solid team.
From reading his autobiography I think Townsend should be given some form of expansion role looking to increase pro rugby in Scotland, he clearly can't coach. It's time the SRU relinquished the current pro teams because unless they exist to win things individually rather than to help the Scottish team they will never win anything other than the 1872 cup therefore the Scottish players will never play at the highest level. I'm all for some involvement from the SRU to make sure that Scots are playing but removing a successful coach is ridiculous. Why not sell one of the existing teams then recreate the Borders team and give that role to Townsend? A team he has an attachment to and an area he understands rather than put a man who played expansive rugby in a position to coach a robust and solid team.
123456789- Posts : 1841
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Check out the Warriors Unofficial site - rebellion brewing. Someone reckons Glasgow City Council should look at their arrangement with the SRU re Scotstoun as likely fans will stay away in droves with Townsend as coach. Doubt they will as it is part of the Commonwealth Games 7s nonsense but point is well made.
21st Century Schizoid Man- Posts : 3564
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Give the guy a chance, I don't like it, I doubt he does and I doubt Lineen does but he may turn out good. We don't know his capabilities as a head coach there's no point in staying away simply because of this it wouldn't help anyone, wouldn't it be better to support the team?
This might be fantastic for Glasgow we don't know yet but I think it's stupid to start predicting the end of Scottish rugby etc.
This might be fantastic for Glasgow we don't know yet but I think it's stupid to start predicting the end of Scottish rugby etc.
123456789- Posts : 1841
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
RDW - I agree with you that this isn't Townsend's fault. The failures of the Scottish backline are his fault, but this decision is clearly something that happened above his head. Whoever made this decision needs to now step forward, provide an explanation and take responsibility. When this all goes pear-shaped (which it will), it's important that there's accountability.
It bothers me hugely that they didn't consider outside candidates for this hugely important role, and go for the best possible candidate for the job.
It bothers me hugely that they didn't consider outside candidates for this hugely important role, and go for the best possible candidate for the job.
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17072
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Is it not a legal requirement for jobs such as this to be advertised? Or would that have meant the possibility of better qualified coaches applying and the SRU's HR Department being unable to find a way of deciding Townsend was the best candidate?
MacKnocked-on- Posts : 1274
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
From the Herald today:
From Toonie's autobiography - oh, the irony!
And from the Torygraph:
Townsend's rocket-powered rise to the top continues to raise eyebrows . . .
by Alasdair Reid, Rugby reporter
'If you really want something in this life, you have to work hard for it. Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers'. Homer Simpson.
Those words of wisdom from the sage of Springfield were quoted in Gregor Townsend's autobiography, 'Talk of the Toony', a few years ago. They headed a chapter dealing with Brendan Laney, whose selection for Scotland only days after he had arrived from New Zealand had been opposed by Townsend and a handful of other players.
However, recent events have lent them a distinctly ironic quality as hard work, diligence and serving time at the coaching coal face have not been part of Townsend's own improbable career trajectory. He started near the top, seconded to Edinburgh (under head coach Andy Robinson) in 2008, and was brought into the Scotland fold by Frank Hadden the following year.
His role under Hadden was limited, but Robinson anointed him as his attack specialist when he took charge of Scotland.
He has held that position ever since. Townsend's wider coaching abilities have never been put to the test as he did not go through anything resembling a conventional apprenticeship. However, players and fellow coaches have talked highly of his rugby vision and the originality of his thinking. With a degree in politics and an MBA to his name, his underlying intelligence is beyond question.
However, his career path has caused controversy and disquiet throughout the Scottish game as his rise to the top has seen him overtake a number of top club coaches. Ayr's Kenny Murray, Currie's Ally Donaldson and Craig Chalmers of Melrose have all guided their sides to Scottish titles, but none has been rewarded with a role at either of Scotland's two professional sides. Challenged on that, Townsend said he made no apologies, and that he could only accept what had been offered to him. But wouldn't you like to know his lottery numbers . . .
From Toonie's autobiography - oh, the irony!
And from the Torygraph:
Is this the SRU's Martin Johnston moment? Promoting an unproven former (great) ex-player above his coaching skill level?SRU fails to come up with convincing explanation why Sean Lineen was moved on from Glasgow role
By Alasdair Reid
Their corporate gobbledegook and management mumbo-jumbo were cranked up to levels that recalled Ricky Gervais at his toe-curling finest in The Office. Meet the new boss: Gregor Townsend is completely unproven as a head coach and and his stratospheric rise to the top has been a hugely controversial trajectory. But neither Mark Dodson nor Graham Lowe, respectively chief executive and performance director of the Scottish Rugby Union, could come up with a convincing explanation for the 'sacking' of Glasgow Warriors coach Sean Lineen when they met the press on Monday.
They tried their best, but as Dodson and Lowe waffled on about strategic directions, foundations and pathways, the clearest message to come out of the gathering was provided by the stony-faced expression and disconsolate body language of Lineen himself.
Lineen, who has held the reins at Glasgow for the past six years, is to be moved into a ‘player acquisition’ role. In SRU/Gervais-speak that translates into ‘scout’, but as well-established as his gifts for identifying and developing talent might be, the timing of the reshuffle is staggering.
Glasgow hold fourth place in the RaboDirect PRO12 league, and with a good run over the next five games they could clinch one of the competition’s play-off spots. Despite that situation, Dodson and Lowe told Lineen last week that he would be moving on at the season’s end – and that his Warriors role would be filled by Scotland attack coach Gregor Townsend.
It has been widely assumed in Scottish rugby circles that the change was engineered by national head coach Andy Robinson. Lowe, to his credit, tried to accept responsibility – “This is primarily my decision,” he said. “The buck stops with me” – but there is little doubt that Robinson, who recently appointed Scott Johnson as his ‘senior assistant coach’ was the major influence behind the move.
Townsend’s reputation is not exactly stellar after Scotland extended their losing run to six games with their 32-14 loss to Ireland in Dublin last weekend. He also has to overcome scepticism engendered by the fact he never paid his dues at a lower level of coaching and has never held a head coach position. His coaching experience has been gained almost entirely as an attack specialist with Edinburgh and Scotland.
Social media sites and the Glasgow fans’ own online forum were flooded with messages expressing bewilderment and outrage following the change. Lineen has been a hugely popular figure at the club, while Townsend is completely unproven in such a role. Even as a player, Townsend had a habit of dividing opinions, and his stratospheric rise to the top as a coach has been a hugely controversial trajectory.
Townsend, however, was bullish about the development. “I believe in myself as a coach,” he said. “I believe that with the team Sean has put together this is an ideal time to take over. My aim is to make Glasgow into one of the strongest teams in Europe.
“Sport is a game of opinions and people don’t like change, but I’m convinced I’m the right person to make this team even better. Judge me on what happens next season, not what has just been announced.”
Lineen admitted that he had not seen the change coming, but said he would make the best of it. He said: “It’s one of these things you’ve just got to deal with. Coaches come and go, that’s just the way it is. But once you get your head around it you move on.”
Asked if both men had been promoted, Dodson replied: “I see this as an integral part of what we’re trying to do going forward. This is part of the strategic process.”
After some prodding, the chief executive clarified his point by saying that that the two jobs had roughly equal status within the SRU hierarchy.
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
Oh dear, oh dearie me, it just gets worse; also from the Herald:
Clever decision or unnecessary risk? It's all a matter of opinion, it seems
by Kevin Ferrie, Senior Sports Writer
Yesterday's gathering at Scotstoun was meant to give professional rugby analysts a chance to examine what many in Scottish rugby regarded as the inexplicable decision to replace Sean Lineen as Glasgow Warriors head coach with Gregor Townsend.
Instead, it turned into a field day for amateur psychoanalysts.
The first intervention of Graham Lowe, the man who had emerged from the shadows to take responsibility for the aforementioned decision, might not have been a Freudian slip as such. However, modern public relations specialists brief their clients not to offer answers to unasked questions, so his unprompted explanation of what Lineen's new job isn't seemed telling.
"I'll answer this," interjected the SRU's director of performance rugby as Mark Dodson, the organisation's chief executive, was attempting to describe Lineen's new role as "head of player acquisition" beyond that of a chief scout.
"There are other parts to the player acquisition role. It includes obviously identifying players worldwide, the under-20s and also the Exiles structure down south. Player acquisition happens across all levels of the business, including down as low as under-16 and we need to make sure we're joined up. So this is not a convenient role we've put together . . . this is a genuine role that we think will make a difference strategically."
What makes that defence of something he had not been asked to defend all the more odd is that what is now being described as a full-time job for Lineen sounds almost identical to the task Andy Robinson, Scotland's head coach, had said would be an add-on to the job he was giving Scott Johnson when he becomes Scotland's senior assistant coach later this year.
At that time, Robinson claimed that was an important facet of Johnson's role. By contrast, Dodson seemed to be suggesting yesterday that it would merely be remiss of the SRU not to take advantage of the knowledge Johnson has of the global game. Dodson was also asked three times whether he felt that both Lineen and Townsend were being promoted before he could bring himself to say so.
Lineen was, however, given no choice in the matter, making his removal a sacking, even if he was immediately offered another role in the organisation. He made little attempt to disguise that in either his body language or his account of what happened.
"This is just the way it is," he said. "Last week I was called into head office and told I wasn't going to be head coach next season but here's an opportunity for you. Once you get your head around it and decisions are made you've got to move on and look at what we've got to do with Glasgow Warriors for the rest of this season."
"Gregor's inheriting what I think is the strongest ever Glasgow squad going forward," he noted. "It's exciting times here. He's also inheriting a fantastic staff with the conditioners and physios.
"So we've got a lot of work to do over the next wee while. We're looking to bring in another couple of players and getting things right, but it's all about Aironi a week on Friday and that's what our focus has to be."
The outrage expressed by supporters was dismissed by Dodson as a matter of opinion while he noted that the role of executives was to make tough decisions. That is certainly so, but what has bewildered those supporters is that neither players nor fans were clamouring for Lineen's removal, while they believe a man perceived to be doing a fine job is being replaced by one who seems to have made a hash of his first full-time professional appointment.
Lowe, a man who has worked in Scotland since 2009 but is still relatively unknown to many in the rugby community, understandably spoke effusively about his belief that Townsend, completely unproven as a head coach, would excel in the role.
For his part, Townsend also said that the reaction to his appointment was merely opinion when expressing his complete belief in his capacity to become a very good coach, describing himself as "a good coach just now".
He said he based that on the work he has done with Scotland: "I believe from an attacking point of view we've really improved over the past few seasons and the highlights for me were beating South Africa, beating Australia and winning a Test series in Argentina."
Townsend has been employed as Scotland's attack coach for three years, during which time the SRU has prioritised the national team in terms of funding. The wins over Australia and South Africa were achieved without a try being scored. In Argentina, Scotland scored one try in two Tests. In four RBS 6 Nations they have scored a total of 17 tries in 19 matches, winning only three.
Since Townsend's appointment, Lineen has continued as head coach of a Glasgow team poorer resourced than all their rivals, including Edinburgh.
In the 2008/09 season when Townsend became a professional coach, Glasgow finished seventh in the 10-team Magners League, five places below Andy Robinson's Edinburgh.
Since then, they have won the 1872 Challenge Cup (Glasgow v Edinburgh) three times in a row, have reached the inaugural Magners League play-offs in 2009/10 and are close to doing so again in the RaboDirect Pro12.
Whether or not there was any need for the decision to be taken, Lowe, who arrived in Scotland in 2009, Dodson, who arrived six months ago, and Robinson, who as Scotland head coach seems to have had a major say, were certainly in a position to do so.
Doubtless they have good reasons for what seems a strangely unnecessary risk. Yesterday's press conference did little by way of revealing what those are . . . other than what some might dismiss as a few men's opinions.
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
My boss in my previous employment had an MBA and he was as thick as the proverbial...
MacKnocked-on- Posts : 1274
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
I genuinly feel sorry for Lineen. He has endlessly had to work with Scraps and he has turned Glasgow into a team who have made the Celtic league play offs once and a good chance of making them this year. Beaten some class outfits in Europe and brought through some good talent.
This is how he is rewarded?
Sean I would walk away from Scottish Rugby. You are better than the way you are being treated.
As for Chalmers, a player who has been grafting at Melrose and has turned them into a formiddible team playing a fantastic type of rugby is overlooked for Townsend who somehow believes he is a "good coach".
His comment in the RWC of not having to score tries to win games is an embarrasing statement for an "attack" coach to make. How is he rewarded? He gets a top flight pro coaching job.
SHAME!!!
This is how he is rewarded?
Sean I would walk away from Scottish Rugby. You are better than the way you are being treated.
As for Chalmers, a player who has been grafting at Melrose and has turned them into a formiddible team playing a fantastic type of rugby is overlooked for Townsend who somehow believes he is a "good coach".
His comment in the RWC of not having to score tries to win games is an embarrasing statement for an "attack" coach to make. How is he rewarded? He gets a top flight pro coaching job.
SHAME!!!
RuggerRadge2611- Posts : 7194
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
The whole thing is completely unbelievable. You couldn't make it up it's so bad. I just wish there was some transparency as to who came up with this idea. The whole fiasco has been handled so badly, almost as if they knew it was a wretched idea.
Townsend - you are and have been extremely lucky. Mark Glasgow's league position right now. Failure to match that next season will and should be deemed a failure. Finishing 2nd in your HC group should also be achieved.
Townsend - you are and have been extremely lucky. Mark Glasgow's league position right now. Failure to match that next season will and should be deemed a failure. Finishing 2nd in your HC group should also be achieved.
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17072
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
It's almost as though someone at the SRU says:
"ok...things are changing for the better, performances are improving (sometimes), we've good youngsters coming through, money in the bank etc etc. Doesn't feel right though - let's do something totally effing stupid to readdress the balance"
If we had run our business like the SRU, we'd have gone down the tube a while back.
"ok...things are changing for the better, performances are improving (sometimes), we've good youngsters coming through, money in the bank etc etc. Doesn't feel right though - let's do something totally effing stupid to readdress the balance"
If we had run our business like the SRU, we'd have gone down the tube a while back.
Tattie Scones RRN- Posts : 1803
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
That Lowe tw** said when questioned about fans staying away next season "it is only their opinions". Really Lowe - well get this - it will not be 'only opinion' when it effects your income you knob. Another one that should be ditched and pronto along with fellow knob Robinson.
21st Century Schizoid Man- Posts : 3564
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Re: Lineen out Townsend in ?
So Lineen has been pushed out. That's absolutely unbelievable.
What does it say to other people who might have thought about coaching Scots professional sides?
It says don't bother - aside from having to shop at Lidl for players or find and grow them yourself - you won't even be respected as a professional. The SRU will d!ck you about at their whim if you are not one of their favourites. I wonder what Bradley at Edinburgh is making of this?
What does it say to other people who might have thought about coaching Scots professional sides?
It says don't bother - aside from having to shop at Lidl for players or find and grow them yourself - you won't even be respected as a professional. The SRU will d!ck you about at their whim if you are not one of their favourites. I wonder what Bradley at Edinburgh is making of this?
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