Alain Rolland why

by smitty100 Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:14 pm

Alain Rolland why is it all about him

by **Biltong** Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:23 pm

It isn't really about him, it is about the two squads of 22 players from each side.

I just think he is pedantic. It takes forever to set or reset scrums, he feels the need for these mid line out conferences with the touch judges and he allows too many players to talk to him, so he gets busy, inbetween the game play.

by **Ozzy3213** Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:26 pm

I've not seen the game today, so can't comment on specifics, but I do always get the feeling when watching Rolland refereeing, that he wants to be the star of the show.

by Duty281 Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:26 pm

Alain Rolland is half-French and I really don't understand why he gets to referee games that France play in like today and in the Wales-France WC Semi. As a matter of fact:

"His father is French, he has family in France, he speaks the language fluently and is a regular visitor to the country."

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/878771-rugby-world-cup-semi-final-referee-alain-rolland-receives-death-threats#ixzz1opmIsCDZ

by Cymroglan Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:26 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:I've not seen the game today, so can't comment on specifics, but I do always get the feeling when watching Rolland refereeing, that he wants to be the star of the show.

You are not wrong there.

by eirebilly Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:26 pm

My main concern with Rolland is that he is not consistent. He seems to always ref one side to the letter of the law and not the other.

Clancy may have been poor but he was at least consistent.

It still very much amazes me just how he gets to ref French matches to be honest.

by maestegmafia Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:28 pm

Must admit I am starting to think that the sooner Paddy O'Briens tenure is over, the less the game will suffer.

This weekends games were refereed with the same Laws but very much the independent interpretations of each adjudicator.

by BlueMuff Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:29 pm

Thought he reffed the game perfectly today - Dont understand what the issue with him is. It was a great game of rugby.

by Cymroglan Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:31 pm

If Rolland was a player then he would be eligible to represent France that in my book should bar him from being considered neutral.

I'm not suggesting that he favours France but he should not be left open to accusations like that.

by ChequeredJersey Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:31 pm

Aside from the scrums (which nobody can referee) and the Yellow, I thought Rolland, whilst somehow annoying, wasn't bad at all today. Pedantic yes, but fair.

by **Biltong** Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:32 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Must admit I am starting to think that the sooner Paddy O'Briens tenure is over, the less the game will suffer.

This weekends games were refereed with the same Laws but very much the independent interpretations of each adjudicator.

Well there is your main problem, they interpret the laws differently and inconsistently, now some have suggested there should be more referees on the field of play. Can you imagine the nightmare then.

Simplify the laws so there is less interpretation necessary.

by Cymroglan Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:32 pm

And yes I know he is a ex International Very Happy

by smitty100 Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:32 pm

BlueMuff wrote:Thought he reffed the game perfectly today - Dont understand what the issue with him is. It was a great game of rugby.

he is not consistent with any of his calls

by Duty281 Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:32 pm

BlueMuff wrote:Thought he reffed the game perfectly today - Dont understand what the issue with him is. It was a great game of rugby.

A French player knocks the ball on deliberately. Rolland says penalty England. 5 minutes later, an England player, Sharples, knocks the ball on deliberately. Penalty France AND Sharples gets a sin binning. Not consistent at all.

by eirebilly Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:33 pm

Cymroglan wrote:If Rolland was a player then he would be eligible to represent France that in my book should bar him from being considered neutral.

I'm not suggesting that he favours France but he should not be left open to accusations like that.

+1

There is too much conflict of interest there for me. Any questionable decisions he makes against a team playing France will always be questioned. I just dont think that he should ref France or Ireland.

by mystiroakey Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:35 pm

he gets to ref french matches because he can speak the language. however interenational sport should only really have one language,. the guy did a goodish job in fairness- didnt get the yellow card inconsitancy but there you go, it didnt cost the btter side so no major dramas there

by bedfordwelsh Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:39 pm

eire,

He doesn't ref Irish games does he, because he is officially Irish but agree he shouldn't be allowed to do French games either

by eirebilly Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:40 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:eire,

He doesn't ref Irish games does he, because he is officially Irish but agree he shouldn't be allowed to do French games either

No he doesnt, but should he claim to be French he would be entitled to.

I just think that because he has dual nationalities he should not be able to ref either.

by Liam Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:43 pm

Does this mean us Welsh are allowed to moan about Rolland again Wink

by eirebilly Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:44 pm

martyr_94 wrote:Does this mean us Welsh are allowed to moan about Rolland again

Would have had to have stopped first to be able to start again Wink

by smitty100 Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:46 pm

my heart sinks every time he refs a england side

by Liam Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:48 pm

eirebilly wrote:
martyr_94 wrote:Does this mean us Welsh are allowed to moan about Rolland again

Would have had to have stopped first to be able to start again

Haha, fair point, although he was poor today. In fairness to Clancy yesterday in the Welsh match, he was very consistent. Sure, he got a couple of little decisions wrong, but all through the game he showed consistency in his decision making. Rolland today was anything but that, perfectly demonstrated with the yellow card for Sharples for exactly the same thing Fofana had done 5 mins earlier.

by eirebilly Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:52 pm

Rolland is probably the only ref that has the courage to make the truely big calls by the letter of the law. Unfortunately, as i mentioned earlier here, he is not consistent with his calls and generally refs one team in a match.

by smitty100 Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:56 pm

he is the only ref who wants to over shadow the game

by Liam Sun 11 Mar 2012, 6:58 pm

smitty100 wrote:he is the only ref who wants to over shadow the game

Don't know, I'd say Steve Walsh is up there, by the time he's stopped caressing his hair its too late to realise there's been a clear knock on

by Gretgael1 Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:00 pm

Cymroglan wrote:If Rolland was a player then he would be eligible to represent France that in my book should bar him from being considered neutral.

I'm not suggesting that he favours France but he should not be left open to accusations like that.

Rolland was a player and has represented Ireland internationally.

Just because his name is french sounding, people's suspicions are aroused. What if his name was Alan Bolland, would his background be scrutinised and his neutrality be brought into question like it is now? I'd doubt it, because no one would even think to question where his parent, or parents, are from. How many here have researched other referees backgrounds? Maybe there's an Irish mother or an English father to a Welsh or Scottish referee? But it wouldn't be as obvious. I don't think his neutrality should be questioned, and to my eyes he does not favour one team over the other.

by smitty100 Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:04 pm

sorry i don't want to talk about the ref but he is always the same,England are moving forward nicely its nice to see in 3 years we could be a good side at the right time not peaking to early like others

by gowales Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:04 pm

To be fair Rolland is probably the best ref in the world who can speak French!

by Pot Hale Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:14 pm

Duty281 wrote:Alain Rolland is half-French and I really don't understand why he gets to referee games that France play in like today and in the Wales-France WC Semi. As a matter of fact:

"His father is French, he has family in France, he speaks the language fluently and is a regular visitor to the country."

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/878771-rugby-world-cup-semi-final-referee-alain-rolland-receives-death-threats#ixzz1opmIsCDZ

His father is French. He has family in France - how very odd.

He was born and raised in Ireland. Played his rugby in Ireland. And in England. Very suspicious.

And he speaks French fluently! Imagine that - having a French father and speaking French fluently.

Betcha he has visited France as well. He has? He's definitely offside.

I'd say he goes to bed humming La Marseillaise with a bit of God Save the Queen thrown in.....

by eirebilly Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:19 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Alain Rolland is half-French and I really don't understand why he gets to referee games that France play in like today and in the Wales-France WC Semi. As a matter of fact:

"His father is French, he has family in France, he speaks the language fluently and is a regular visitor to the country."

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/878771-rugby-world-cup-semi-final-referee-alain-rolland-receives-death-threats#ixzz1opmIsCDZ

His father is French. He has family in France - how very odd.

He was born and raised in Ireland. Played his rugby in Ireland. And in England. Very suspicious.

And he speaks French fluently! Imagine that - having a French father and speaking French fluently.

Betcha he has visited France as well. He has? He's definitely offside.

I'd say he goes to bed humming La Marseillaise with a bit of God Save the Queen thrown in.....

by Cymroglan Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:20 pm

Pot Hale is there any need for him to ref France simply because he speaks French.
We are told often enough that players should play the ref well the French players surely must have a advantage when Roland is used so often in their games.

by Gretgael1 Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:26 pm

Cymroglan wrote:Pot Hale is there any need for him to ref France simply because he speaks French.
We are told often enough that players should play the ref well the French players surely must have a advantage when Roland is used so often in their games.

Why must French players have an advantage? Does he ref every French game?

by **LondonTiger** Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:27 pm

France have enough disadvantages with most refs talking to sides in English.

Personally I was happy enough with Rolland's performance. I disagree with the yellow card but understand why he gave it. Sharples knew exactly what he was doing and was making no effort to catch the ball there were two player outside him. A french fan will say they could have run the try in from there.

Fofana meanwhile I felt the penalty itself was arguable - and certainly it required the TJ intervention to give. England had no overlap so was different.

by thebluesmancometh Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:31 pm

As I said it's a case of where the ball gets slapped too.

Fofana hits the ball into the air giving him a chance to play it, Sharples slaps it straight to the floor!

by Cymroglan Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:31 pm

Not of course not but the percentage of games he refs France does seem higher than normal.

by maestegmafia Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:35 pm

biltongbek wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Must admit I am starting to think that the sooner Paddy O'Briens tenure is over, the less the game will suffer.

This weekends games were refereed with the same Laws but very much the independent interpretations of each adjudicator.

Well there is your main problem, they interpret the laws differently and inconsistently, now some have suggested there should be more referees on the field of play. Can you imagine the nightmare then.

Simplify the laws so there is less interpretation necessary.

Clarifying laws and making them "not for interpretation" is the difference.

Simplification would be great too, though the IRB have to make decisions on their concept of the sports future first.

I think the larger problem is that the IRB top knobs need to meet more often and be more decisive with the direction of a game that progresses faster than many others.

by **Biltong** Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:42 pm

Maes the laws are clarified in a large document. I spoke to a school teacher who coaches my son's rugby team, he said they get video tapes to look at which is supposed to help with seeing how laws are interpreted by the professional referees (he is a school referee as well). He says they are told not to pay attention too much to the videos as the decisions can also be wrong.

Now that tells you how badly these laws although "clarified" is still too open for interpretation.

The only way you are going to solve this to a point where there is at least a degree of consistnecy between the way games are officiated is by having less laws.

I come back to what I said a few weeks ago.

Let all player compete in the ruck, regardless of whether the ruck is formed or not. This way there is no disputable interpretation that can be disadvantageous to either team.

That is just one aspect of the ruck I would change amongst a few others.

by BATH_BTGOG Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:49 pm

I think he is a very good ref in all honestly but it doesn't sit right with me that he is half French, not that I believe he favours them but like another poster said it does leave him open to criticism sometimes.

by Gretgael1 Sun 11 Mar 2012, 7:58 pm

BATH_BTGOG wrote:I think he is a very good ref in all honestly but it doesn't sit right with me that he is half French, not that I believe he favours them but like another poster said it does leave him open to criticism sometimes.

Again, have people research every referees parentage or just Alain Rollands because of his French name?

by Mike Selig Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:05 pm

1) He is amongst the top 2 refs in the world according to the IRB and anybody who knows anything about anything.

2) He often refs french sides both internationally and in the HC. It's only since his entirely correct red card in the WC semi-final that some 'fans' think this is an issue.

3) He's played international rugby for Ireland. Anyone who has played international sport will testify that that kinda rules you out feeling in anyway french.

4) He had a good game today. England were indisciplined.

5) The french deliberate knock-on was at best marginal, and anyway called in by the AR. The english one was no marginal, and came with a major overlap. Personally I would have given a YC to Fofana as well granted it being a penalty, but not Rolland's decision on that one.

6) Really fed up with people moaning about the referees after EVERY game. Rugby fans should know better, it's becoming as bad as football.

by Cymroglan Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:12 pm

Mike Selig wrote:1) He is amongst the top 2 refs in the world according to the IRB and anybody who knows anything about anything.

2) He often refs french sides both internationally and in the HC. It's only since his entirely correct red card in the WC semi-final that some 'fans' think this is an issue.
3) He's played international rugby for Ireland. Anyone who has played international sport will testify that that kinda rules you out feeling in anyway french.

4) He had a good game today. England were indisciplined.

5) The french deliberate knock-on was at best marginal, and anyway called in by the AR. The english one was no marginal, and came with a major overlap. Personally I would have given a YC to Fofana as well granted it being a penalty, but not Rolland's decision on that one.

6) Really fed up with people moaning about the referees after EVERY game. Rugby fans should know better, it's becoming as bad as football.

Play the ref often enough and you learn their ways. He should not be selected to ref French games just because he speaks French the French players have a very good understanding of English.
Refs should be rotated regularly and not ref certain sides on a regular basis..

by eirebilly Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:13 pm

Mike Selig wrote:
5) The french deliberate knock-on was at best marginal, and anyway called in by the AR. The english one was no marginal, and came with a major overlap. Personally I would have given a YC to Fofana as well granted it being a penalty, but not Rolland's decision on that one.

Thats the thing, Rolland originally ruled it as a knock on and not deliberate. If you take the time to watch the incident again you will also notice that England had an overlap as well.
He had no hesitation to yellow card Sharples for exactly the same offence.

A deliberate knock on is a yellow card offence so he was correct in the sharples decision but in the Fofana incident, he didnt even want to award a penalty. I am sorry but if you cant see the inconsistency there then i am amazed.

by Mike Selig Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:15 pm

Cymroglan wrote:

Play the ref often enough and you learn their ways. He should not be selected to ref French games just because he speaks French the French players have a very good understanding of English.
Refs should be rotated regularly and not ref certain sides on a regular basis..

I'm not sure he refs France more often than any other team, but willing to be corrected if someone produces stats to show that's the case.

Anyway I'll take that comment seriously when you link me to your similar complaint a few years ago when Nigel Owens refereed Munster in the QF, SF and Final of a Heineken cup (which they won by beating Toulouse) then Ireland-France in the subsequent 6N when France's first penalty (of 2) was awarded in the 70th minute.

by Cymroglan Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:18 pm

Mike what on earth are you talking about ?

by eirebilly Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:21 pm

Mike Selig wrote:1) He is amongst the top 2 refs in the world according to the IRB and anybody who knows anything about anything.
Not sure what you mean here?
2) He often refs french sides both internationally and in the HC. It's only since his entirely correct red card in the WC semi-final that some 'fans' think this is an issue.
I am pretty sure that it has been an issue between said 'fans' for several years now, maybe you have missed that.

3) He's played international rugby for Ireland. Anyone who has played international sport will testify that that kinda rules you out feeling in anyway french.
How does that rule you out from feeling anything for the French, not that it matters anyway?
4) He had a good game today. England were indisciplined.
He had a reasonable game today and England were indisciplined but that still doesnt explain his inconsistency
5) The french deliberate knock-on was at best marginal, and anyway called in by the AR. The english one was no marginal, and came with a major overlap. Personally I would have given a YC to Fofana as well granted it being a penalty, but not Rolland's decision on that one.
Please refer to my earlier reply to you.

6) Really fed up with people moaning about the referees after EVERY game. Rugby fans should know better, it's becoming as bad as football.
People are not moaning at the ref here, they are debating a decision that was made.

by Mike Selig Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:23 pm

Consistency: if you criticise the instances that be for consistently nominating Rolland for french matches (which I'm not sure is the case, but I'm sure you can back it up with statistics) then surely you did the same when Owens kept refereeing Munster and Ireland in crunch matches. Not to have done so would be hypocritical, and show you merely still hold a grudge against Allain Rolland after the WC semi-final. I'm merely asking you to supply evidence that this is not the case and that you are nothing if not consistent in your criticisms...

by Mike Selig Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:26 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Mike Selig wrote:1) He is amongst the top 2 refs in the world according to the IRB and anybody who knows anything about anything.
Not sure what you mean here?
2) He often refs french sides both internationally and in the HC. It's only since his entirely correct red card in the WC semi-final that some 'fans' think this is an issue.
I am pretty sure that it has been an issue between said 'fans' for several years now, maybe you have missed that.

3) He's played international rugby for Ireland. Anyone who has played international sport will testify that that kinda rules you out feeling in anyway french.
How does that rule you out from feeling anything for the French, not that it matters anyway?
4) He had a good game today. England were indisciplined.
He had a reasonable game today and England were indisciplined but that still doesnt explain his inconsistency
5) The french deliberate knock-on was at best marginal, and anyway called in by the AR. The english one was no marginal, and came with a major overlap. Personally I would have given a YC to Fofana as well granted it being a penalty, but not Rolland's decision on that one.
Please refer to my earlier reply to you.

6) Really fed up with people moaning about the referees after EVERY game. Rugby fans should know better, it's becoming as bad as football.
People are not moaning at the ref here, they are debating a decision that was made.

1) I'm sorry I was being mischevious. Anyway the fact remains the IRB do rank him in the top 2 (after Joubert).

2) obviously I did. Could someone link me to posts showing this.

3) If he doesn't feel french then bias doesn't come into it.

4) What inconsistency? Simply saying "he was inconsistent" doesn't make him so.

5) If you're blaming him for AR calls you're clutching at straws.

6) People are moaning about the ref. Yesterday people moaned about Clancy. After every knock-out game in the WC people moaned about the refs. It's becoming wearisome.

by eirebilly Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:26 pm

Mike, what are you on about? This is a thread to discuss Alain Rolland and the decision that he made in the match today. What on earth has Nigel Owens, Munster and and Ireland got to do with this thread?

by Pot Hale Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:28 pm

I think you'll find that a number of refs have taken the trouble to learn French because they come up against French teams in league, cups and tests. Wayne Barnes, George Clancy are two I can think of.

People may not be aware that in the SH, they have trialled using refs from same country during Super Rugby - and I think in the 3N.

If Nigel Owens was reffing the game today, you could argue that he could potentially be biased as his home country would be playing one of the teams next week. I'm not sure if there's an actual IRB policy or edict about this to avoid refs being accused of potential bias.

by Cymroglan Sun 11 Mar 2012, 8:29 pm

As far as I'm aware Nigel Owens has no Irish or French connections so it would not leave him open to accusations..

Mike I'm a adult I do not hold grudges I deal with them thumbsup

I had not even mentioned Wales in this or to be honest even thought of the red card incident.
All I have said was that Rolland does leave himself open to accusations when he is selected to ref France.

What you read into that is your choice but I can assure you my opinion is not based on any grudge but you on the other hand seem to carry a grudge against me for some reason.

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