Atmosphere at Irish Games in the "Aviva"

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Hi all,

This is a bit of a puzzler to me. Since the old Lansdowne road has been redeveloped Ireland's win ratio there hasn't been good, losing to S.Africa, France twice and England. Leinster on the other hand seem quite at home there when they play there, with a 100% win record in the new ground.

I've been to a few games in the new Lansdowne Road, to the detriment of my wallet, I might add. I went to the game against S.Africa, Samo and France. I've also been to the Leicester and Tolouse games. My opinion is that the atmosphere at the Irish games has been awful. Does anyone else have this view too?

The IRFU have brought in new music, cheesy voiceovers, girls wearing next to nothing waving flags, drums, yet I think the Fields of Athenry was heard for the first time for an Irish team in the new stadium against the Scots. Correct me if I'm wrong.

In contrast to this. The atmosphere for the Irish games in New Zealand was by all accounts unbelievable. The game versus Australia being an obvious highlight but also the Italian game and Irish fans made a good name for themselves.

So if the Irish team is supported well away from Dublin, and Leinster are supported well in Dublin, how come the atmosphere for the Irish games in Dublin seems so poor? Commentators say it, you can notice it on the TV easily, the games I've been to have had poor enough atmosphere.

Thoughts?
Views?
Past experiences?

Please don't jump on me when I say this, but the int crowd at Ireland games in general are poor, well from what I have seen and been involved with anyway.

I know a lot of my freinds and a fair few number of supporters don't bother travelling anymore to Dublin as it's a nightmare of a city for a Welshman, not through anyones fault in general.

Firstly Dublin is crazy expensive, if everyone I know explain Dublin as stupidly expensive first up, I'm sure the Scots and English do the same thing.

Secondly, if you travel with Family or girlfreind it's ok, but as a group of young lads it's awfull. Bouncers won't let you into bars and clubs in any more numbers than on your own, local pubs tend to get cranky etc...

Thirdly within the stadium you have 3 types of supporter. Very few away fans, that are sparsely spread out and in very small numbers, old school rugby guys who tend to not want to, or let anyone else make a noise, ssshhhh ing anyone having conversations while a kick is being lined up etc... and lastly the plastic supporters, who although get into every rugby stadium in the 6N tend to be very Dublin middle class. They are boring, reserved and have only turned up as a pre curser to something else, or because of a sense of occation.

Now don't get me wrong, I spend a lot of time in Dublin, the missus and all her fmily are from there, and I have had lots of great experiences in and around the city. Sadly international rugby isn't one of them.

fair enough and agree on some of what you say.

but bouncers not letting you into bars? you serious. That was a problem 6/7 years ago mid celtic tiger but surely not any more in recessionary times

I have been back home in Dublin for a few years now and bouncers are no hassle at all and will let you in in tracksuit bottoms hammered as they are desperate for the customers.

Not 3 weeks ago when I was out in the centre with a few friends. There was 4 of us going for a drink, about 9.30 and we were told no stag parties. When a few of the boys said they were local and not on a stag perty they replied with don't argue with me your too drunk.

JEEEEZZZZZ!!!!!

Happened to me last year also, but then we were rather drunk that time.

And the last Wales encounter, we were turned away from numerous places for havng jerseys on, then we were too many in number, even though we had just met a few welsh boys in the queue.

eirebilly wrote:Sorry but i find this thread rather negative. Maybe some of you should start singing and bring the 'so called' missing atmosphere with you?

As i have said ealier, i love my province but i love Ireland as well so when i am at any match i cheer them both on as loud as i can.

Not sure you are getting where we are coming from Eire, we all cheer loudly, we've all said as much, but, the difference is at our provinces there are fans there who will join in and the collective voice is heard. At an Ireland game my experience is that I end up cheering not on my own but in a small group.

The people at Irish games tend to not want to cheer as much as supporters at provincial games and they seem much less up for starting a chant themselves.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Please don't jump on me when I say this, but the int crowd at Ireland games in general are poor, well from what I have seen and been involved with anyway.

I know a lot of my freinds and a fair few number of supporters don't bother travelling anymore to Dublin as it's a nightmare of a city for a Welshman, not through anyones fault in general.

Firstly Dublin is crazy expensive, if everyone I know explain Dublin as stupidly expensive first up, I'm sure the Scots and English do the same thing.

Secondly, if you travel with Family or girlfreind it's ok, but as a group of young lads it's awfull. Bouncers won't let you into bars and clubs in any more numbers than on your own, local pubs tend to get cranky etc...

Thirdly within the stadium you have 3 types of supporter. Very few away fans, that are sparsely spread out and in very small numbers, old school rugby guys who tend to not want to, or let anyone else make a noise, ssshhhh ing anyone having conversations while a kick is being lined up etc... and lastly the plastic supporters, who although get into every rugby stadium in the 6N tend to be very Dublin middle class. They are boring, reserved and have only turned up as a pre curser to something else, or because of a sense of occation.

Now don't get me wrong, I spend a lot of time in Dublin, the missus and all her fmily are from there, and I have had lots of great experiences in and around the city. Sadly international rugby isn't one of them.

The only thing I can agree with from the above is that Dublin is expensive the rest is uninformed nonsense.

Re Bouncers. Compared to Cardiff for example Dublin pubs don't have an anything goes attitude to getting peed and making an ass of yourself. Many people see that as a good thing. That said rugby fans from all six nations countries are very welcome and I've been to 6N matches in all 6N countries bar Italy and I'd say the atmosphere in the bars around Landsdowne is up there with the best of any of the other cities involved.

Re "middle class" Dublin folk. Your comments are pretty ignorant as the majority of "middle class" Dubliners that go to games will have grown up on rugby and have attended or been associated with rugby schools around Leinster with rich rugby traditions. Just because you don't want to mix with them or because they dont wave inflatable daffodils doesn't make them "plastic fans". Commenting on the class of fan you come across isnt very rugby anyway in my opinion.

I thought that all the bouncers in Dublin were Polish or Czech?

Leinster

You have just proved my point perfectly. Looking down your nose at me because I have voiced my opinion based ON RECENT EXPERIENCES!

This holier than thou attitude is partly what I'm talking about. So Cardiff is an inferior city because during internationals anyone can wear and do what they want? Its called being accomodating, just because half of the city doesn't even notice the game is on, doesn't mean that Cardiff is inferior for fully embracing the game.

The examples used were previous experiences, from times I have been drunk and not.

For me Dublin is a lovely city, but when it comes to 6N atmosphere and fun, Cardiff, Edinburgh and arguably Paris beats it hands down. Mind I have only been to Paris for a 6N game once, and it was just the most fun, talking rugby with the depresssed French fans after they gave us a tonking was hilarious. And don't get me started on the French women...

There are huge areas of middle class Dublin that aren't rugby areas, unless youve never been. I am engaged to a middle class girl from Dublin who has no interest in the game. Infact all of her freinds and family care very little, plus most of the guys I work with aren't interested. Yet they have all been to the Aviva, mainly because they were given tickets. I would call these plastic fans, and we are talking a lot of people.

Rugby has always been riddled with class clashes, the underlying issue of class and rugby has tortured the game since it's inception. So class does certainly play a part in rugby, and like it or not always will!!!

No offence was meant, but it is not mere conjecture by a passing supporter. I have lived in Dublin, probably visited 30/40 times in the last 5 years, and currently do some work in and around the region in the sport, it is what I've picked up through first hand experiences.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Leinster

You have just proved my point perfectly. Looking down your nose at me because I have voiced my opinion based ON RECENT EXPERIENCES!

This holier than thou attitude is partly what I'm talking about. So Cardiff is an inferior city because during internationals anyone can wear and do what they want? Its called being accomodating, just because half of the city doesn't even notice the game is on, doesn't mean that Cardiff is inferior for fully embracing the game.

The examples used were previous experiences, from times I have been drunk and not.

For me Dublin is a lovely city, but when it comes to 6N atmosphere and fun, Cardiff, Edinburgh and arguably Paris beats it hands down. Mind I have only been to Paris for a 6N game once, and it was just the most fun, talking rugby with the depresssed French fans after they gave us a tonking was hilarious. And don't get me started on the French women...

There are huge areas of middle class Dublin that aren't rugby areas, unless youve never been. I am engaged to a middle class girl from Dublin who has no interest in the game. Infact all of her freinds and family care very little, plus most of the guys I work with aren't interested. Yet they have all been to the Aviva, mainly because they were given tickets. I would call these plastic fans, and we are talking a lot of people.

Rugby has always been riddled with class clashes, the underlying issue of class and rugby has tortured the game since it's inception. So class does certainly play a part in rugby, and like it or not always will!!!

No offence was meant, but it is not mere conjecture by a passing supporter. I have lived in Dublin, probably visited 30/40 times in the last 5 years, and currently do some work in and around the region in the sport, it is what I've picked up through first hand experiences.

I actually think it's you that's the snob as it is you that is generalising certain demographics of Irish society because you don't like how they act. I'm not even from Dublin Im from Westmeath so I havent proved any point for you. The only point you have proved is that you have a preconceived perception of Irish fans and you aren't going to change your mind. Fact is people from all over Ireland go to Ireland matches. In my opinion the fact that your experiences haven't been to your liking says more about you than anything else.

...Nobody said Cardiff was inferior. It's different and that why I love going to places like Cardiff, London, Edinburgh etc. To enjoy those differences. For me snobbiness is going to a foreign country and whinging about all the things you hate about it rather than embracing the differences. Feel sorry for you that you aren't able to do that.

I would definately disagree, when living in Limerick and Clare I was surprised that such a rugby community didn't all up and leave but a skeleton staff and spend the weekend in Dublin. Infact part of the reason they massive amount of numbers didn't go were some of the reasons I have given above.

the hours of driving wouldn't help obviously, but I literally only came across a select few who were excited to go and see the game, and they were Dubs in the majority.

Who said I don't like how they act? I said maybe its a possible cause of the atmosphere being lacking in the Aviva. I have also mentioned my Freinds and family being from there, along with work colleagues. Obviouosly I dislike how these people act?

Are you listening to yourself, you have got your back up and become defencive and are border line making things up to suit your argument!

If I had a pre conceived idea of Irish rugby fans, it would be those of old Thomond, which was ripped down and rebuilt while I lived in Limebrick. It would be of a glorious wet and windy friday night bouncing along with the faithfull! It would be walking into Thomond and seeing my message on the paving stones. As I spent a few years there before I had visited Dublin.

I may have been corrupted by the munstermen slightly, told tales of the Lunster boys up north, and how they travel down to watch the real rugby, but as it happens I lived up in Dublin when the Leinster team became popular through success, and began outplaying their southern cousins.

My experiences havn't been to my liking in part, and only on 6N days. You are right about that, but then those same experiences have not been to those around me's likings to, be them, Irish, Welsh or Saffa! So taking my dirty lower class one eyed bias out of the equation, why did they have the same bad experiences?

you know it's funny, as plastic supporters have been a problem recently in the Aviva, the prawn sandwhich brigade in twickers, the cowgirls of the MS etc.. it seems to be a common theme but you disagree with.

The class divide between the south and north is still alive today, well more so fom the south, but it is alive! Even in Ublin city there are regular problems, and the North sider South sider 'joke' is made over and over, but you disagree.

Maybe there isn't a problem with the atmosphere in the Aviva, maybe your right, all is perfect in Dublin, traveling fans are the problem around the city, and if they dare to have a differing culture than you then well, how dare they?!

The reasons I gave for the poor atmosphere in the Aviva, were based on my experiences within the country. It has nothing to do with what I think about the country, or the city of Dublin.

Regarding club rugby I have had nothing but great experiences at all 4 provinces, although for me Thomond is just the best club ground in Eusope (no havnt quite been to all)

Sorry you are ranting: "travelling fans the problem", seriously. Pointless responding to that. Maybe some of my reaction was ott but that's only because some of your points are pretty far removed from reality.

Well they might be far removed from your reality, but they are common themes in Ireland

thebluesmancometh wrote:Well they might be far removed from your reality, but they are common themes in Ireland

Maybe where you're from but as far as I'm concerned opinions such as branding a certain demographic as plastic fans because of their perceived "class" status are certainly confined to a small minority. I think you have been misguided but we shall agree to disagree.

I think the Bluesmans has made a good point but I dont think its a class thing more the point being made that its the "serious" rugby heads from the clubs who are a bit precious (and yes they do tend to be middle class - whether its Dublin, Cork or Limerick).

In the past there were organised pi.s ups in Juries and the hotels/bars around ballsbridge and there was always good craic in town or out around donnybrook.

I was in college in Cork in the early 80's and there were never problems getting tickets and there would be a gang of us heading up and sleeping on floors of people living in Dublin, always used to be a big gang from Cork and Limerick (and Galway) going to the games mostly from the clubs (the provinces were just a sideshow then). Out on the pi,s in Donnybrook etc etc...the odd time saving the pennies to get to twickers or cardiff arms or on one occassion paris...

Just seems different now...(#feelsmiddleaged)

Nothing beats ravenhill on a Friday night for me. Get the usual spot on the terrace, get the 'beer step' all set up and then belt out whatever is being sung/screamed.

The aviva still suffers from the debacle of when it opened and also the fact that Ireland hav only performed really well once in it. Wales this 6N was like watching in a morgue. Started to hear hints of an atmosphere during the Scotland game but no more than that

thebluesmancometh - very well put and interesting to read.

How do you solve the lack of atmosphere? Get more club players attending? Incentives for clubs to do this? If your club buys more than 20 tickets (for registered players) you get to attend a cheap beer tent with a band playing a couple of hours before (and maybe after) the match......To give it an official name I'd call it 'The Cheap Beer Tent'.

Stadium design? MS is still the best designed modern stadium I've ever been to (despite the pink cowboy hats). The old terraces at Cardiff, Murrayfield, and Lansdowne were fun - but that's not coming back.

I think there are too many corporate tickets.

If there were less that would get more people in and <hopefully> lower the price too.

I think having people placed strategically who the IRFU know come in with the right attitude, who are great fans, put them in a group together (maybe 20) and have maybe 5 pockets of these guys over the stadium and get them singing like crazy.

Because a large group has started the song other people will catch on and start singing too.

That little pit in the RDS, they are the kinda people you'd want the IRFu to get in to those little pockets in the Aviva.

Also, cut out all the stupid cheerleading and cheesy announcer before the game.

Cut out the free tickets to corporate people just because they work in a certain place. Less free tickets to people like that if they are going to bring their "not interested in rugby" family and see it just as a day out.

http://www.v2journal.com/rugby-disco.html

luckless - that article should be in a national newspaper.

The part where the singing fans were drowned out by the daft music shows how little the stadium 'DJs' know about a rugby crowd and atmosphere.

Playing music during breaks in play detracts from the game.

Playing silly drumming sound effects when a side is actually attacking is baffling! The crowd wonder what the noise is instead of cheering their team.

Maybe printing the words to a few songs in the programme is a cheaper and better way of doing it - as long as there aren't any 'song leaders' on a microphone, like happened at some grounds with the national anthems.

Glad you liked it, Gramlin.

It's pretty simple if you ask me when Ireland are playing really well as in the Ireland v England match of last year the atmosphere in the Aviva is incredible. When Ireland play badly as in the match v Wales the crowd isn't going to get as excited.

There is no need for silly inflatable hammers, bananas, beach balls, silly announcements, half time shows, cheerleaders etc. to build an "atmosphere". All these things IMO are for the so called "plastic fans" because in my opinion if you need more entertainment than the rugby on show then you aren't really a rugby fan. Watch the match for God sake!

Landsdowne Road has always been sold out for all big 6N matches for as long as I can remember 25 years or so. The biggest threat to this is ticket prices not the demand for a ticket. Even when Ireland were poor in the mid 90s it was a sell out. There are plenty of people who just want to go watch the match.

There is always room for a beach ball!!!!

Rocked up in Edinburgh a few years ago in hawaiian clobber and a beach ball, the stadium is ok, but very wide open, and the atmosphere was lacking except in our little corner we had a right blast with those around us, lost the beach ball a few times, but we had spares to play with.

Ice cold, dull game, lots of mistakes but as an away fan you want a party at the rugby, not just sit there whinge about the cold drink your beer and sulk as you get beat.

It was cold in the first few games, and I would suggest, not a fact obviously that there are fewer travelling fans in the Aviva, or thats the way it seems anyway. In the past the travelling support was immense, I went to Dublin a few times and there were thousands of welshman in the city, my missus was there a few weeks ago and said that there weren't many at all.

I think a few are looking back on the old Landsdowne with rose tinted glasses, it was a depressing place to be, cold, old, and not a very freindly stadium at all.

Yes it wasn't very nice to look at a bit like the RDS but people like these places because of the memories as much as everything else.

That said if people want to go along and have a laugh, wear a monkey suit, wave a daffodil etc. I don't have an issue with that I just don't think it makes them better fans. Just means they probably aren't entirely there for the match. Is that any better that the corporate hobnobbers who are there to please their clients?

Also I do like the way the IRFU give flags to all seats on the lower tier as it helps support the team.

leinsterbaby,

Maybe we could get the IRFU to put a song sheet along with every flag to let the crowd know that singing is expected along with the flag waving?

the old landsdowne was a cold old place. wind whipping into it at both ends. looked like something from a soviet republic. had character though and the atmosphere could be fantastic at times. Mainly due to 2 large terraces.

if only they had finished the Aviva and completed the North stand it would be far better. We would not fill it with the current pricing structure and form of team however if we dropped prices and offered cheaper seats im sure we would. would make it more of an arena

music mid game is an absolute irritant. thanks to the southern hemisphere for this outrage. It has got to stop. and also annoying announcers. how can you get a sing song going when dj otzi or maroon 5 are blaring over the loudspeakers every stoppage. we do not need gimmicks to create an atmosphere, cheaper tickets, cheaper booze and exciting rugby will do the trick.

i know friday night games represent logistical problems in the 6 nations but the atmosphere would be a damn sight better than sunday when everbody is in work the next day

I cannot stand the music either, a good old fashioned band is all thats needed! What does a mexican fanfare or cheesy dance music have to do with anything????

That said we are on here whinging about atmosphere and plastic fans, yet they are paying the elevated prices and the gimmics are there to entice them. Why would the IRFU lower prices to get real fans in, when they make much more with the plastics.

Baby please stop trying to manipulate everything I say to sound snobby, your the one who implies who are real fans or not, not me. I love everyone, I am merely giving possible resons why the Aviva is currently poor!

A big KLeinster HC game - like Leicester, Clermont and Toulouse last year - or big derby game like Leinster-Munster - generate a great atmo in the Aviva or the RDS for that matter. Never been to Thomond or Ravenhill but am sure same applies there - great atmos for the big matches especially when they're put on a good time - kickoffs 7pm Friday night or anytime between 5 and 7 on Saturdays.

Conclusion to draw - far fewer corporate liggers at the Leinster/Munster/Ulster matches! I know the corporate liggers are the ones paying off the IRFU debt on the Aviva but as long as a quarter of the tickets go to the liggers don't expect atmo tio improve mmuch

"ligger"?

Not heard that term before brennomac.

I don't think it's because there's no terraces or anything to do with the stadium itself. Because the atmosphere at all the Leinster games has been brilliant.

I'm not convinced by the argument that there's to many corporate types and families, because every 6 nations stadium has those. And they can cheer too.

Were there no seats, so everybody had to stand when we played England last year? No. Did the corporate types not turn up to that England game? No.

In my opinion the atmosphere is poor because of the general feeling that the team are underperforming. They're not doing themselves justice, and haven't been for a while. Poor attacking and indiscipline is consistently costing them. I'd imagine that if Munster failed to qualify for the HEC quarter finals three years in a row and kept losing to teams they should be beating at home, it would start to dampen the mood in Thomond a bit.

Although thankfully the last two home games were much better, even if it was against the two weakest teams. We beat them more convincingly than anyone else. If we start to do what we should be doing and beating Wales, England and France at home (or at least make them have to play brilliantly to win), the Lansdowne roar will return.

mrsp - an old term originally for corporate types who turn up in pressed jeans for rock gigs after they've been wined and dined by their corporatre hosts, seems just as apt for sports events

have to confess that i worked as a journo (boring old financial sh1te) and got lots of invites to big rugby, soccer and gaa matches. have to say watching matches from the corporate boxes was sanitised and boring as hell especially if you were stuck sitting beside the chief executive's wife, afraid to engage in my traditional raucous rants against refs, the munster rugby team in those dim and distant days when they used to beat leinster, any gaa team playing and usually beating the the dubs Until this year) etc.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I don't think it's because there's no terraces or anything to do with the stadium itself. Because the atmosphere at all the Leinster games has been brilliant.

I'm not convinced by the argument that there's to many corporate types and families, because every 6 nations stadium has those. And they can cheer too.

Were there no seats, so everybody had to stand when we played England last year? No. Did the corporate types not turn up to that England game? No.

In my opinion the atmosphere is poor because of the general feeling that the team are underperforming. They're not doing themselves justice, and haven't been for a while. Poor attacking and indiscipline is consistently costing them. I'd imagine that if Munster failed to qualify for the HEC quarter finals three years in a row and kept losing to teams they should be beating at home, it would start to dampen the mood in Thomond a bit.

Although thankfully the last two home games were much better, even if it was against the two weakest teams. We beat them more convincingly than anyone else. If we start to do what we should be doing and beating Wales, England and France at home (or at least make them have to play brilliantly to win), the Lansdowne roar will return.

Completely agree.

Disagree Feckless, I think the reasons you suggest may effect attendance but not atmosphere!

Unless your suggesting the die hards don't bother going anymore?!

I think rugby has always suffered when in comparison to the Hurling or football, infact I'd go as far to say that Dublin on an all Ireland day is quite similar to Cardiff on a rugby day!

I was at the HCup final last night and I have never witnessed better supporters. Leinster have huge attendances, Munster have the culture of being the best fans in Europe but Clermont's supporters dwarfed them both last night.

The amount of singing, chanting and vocal noise was so intense. Watched it back on TV and the noise did not come across like it does in real life.

With this in mind, the issue with the atmosphere at the Aviva stadium is not the stadium. I will let you all fill in the gaps in to what this means.

... that when supporters care about the team they... er... shout?

The old LDR had unified support behind one team. With the rise of the provinces some sections only cheer for their provincial players and worse jeer those not from their province.
It's obvious from the Ireland threads on here that there are major divisions in support and the support from the stands is no different.

The Great Aukster wrote:... that when supporters care about the team they... er... shout?

The old LDR had unified support behind one team. With the rise of the provinces some sections only cheer for their provincial players and worse jeer those not from their province.
It's obvious from the Ireland threads on here that there are major divisions in support and the support from the stands is no different.

Agree entirely.

We'll see if Schmidt led Ireland can't get Irish Provincial supporters back supporting Ireland with a passion.
Still say a lot of the lack of passion in the stands is down to the extended period of passionless rugby from Ireland. A full 80 minutes of hard edged commitment from the team on a consistent basis and the crowds will be turned back on.

Nothing wrong with the stadium. On the occasions I've been there not watching Ireland the atmosphere has been great and it wasn't full either time.

Notch wrote:Nothing wrong with the stadium. On the occasions I've been there not watching Ireland the atmosphere has been great and it wasn't full either time.

There is a lot wrong with the stadium with the main one being where the bars are located so people can't get in and out easily especially in the middle tier. You have people taking their seats well over 10 mins into the game.

close the bars ten minutes before the game.... and open them again ten minutes after it...............

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:Nothing wrong with the stadium. On the occasions I've been there not watching Ireland the atmosphere has been great and it wasn't full either time.

There is a lot wrong with the stadium with the main one being where the bars are located so people can't get in and out easily especially in the middle tier. You have people taking their seats well over 10 mins into the game.

Well thats just people with dopey priorities. Why pay €50 for a ticket only to miss 10-20 (start of each half) minutes of the game at the bar.

Ok, let me rephrase that- there is nothing wrong with the stadium in terms of atmosphere or acoustics.

There is quite a lot wrong with it in terms of basic design.

SecretFly wrote:close the bars ten minutes before the game.... and open them again ten minutes after it...............

The guy who spends half the game buying drinks in the bar and chatting to his mate while watching on TV makes a lot more money for the IRFU than the guy screaming his head of for 80 minutes in his seat who doesn't buy any refreshments.

I think TV is the way to go for the national team.

Yeah... the bars are a money earner, but there you go.

Some of the people who would criticise the atmosphere at the ground are also some of the people who come in late, leave early and make regular trips to top up. That might be enjoying the game on their terms but it isn't exactly adding to the impact a crowd might bring to bear if drink wasn't required to enhance the sense of enjoyment in the first place.

Not guilty! Speaking from a personal point of view, I just have found going to Dublin to watch Ireland a lot more of an inconvenience than a pleasure (unlike away trips at provincial level which are often a joy) and the atmosphere in the stadium is accurately replicated in a living room, sad to say.

It's very sad. In 2005 international rugby was everything for me and Ulster was a footnote. Now in 2013, the poor matchday experience means I really do feel like an Ulster fan and an Ireland consumer. The fan in me wins every time.

I have been to Leinster games in the Aviva and the atmosphere has not been as good as in the RDS. It is better than at Ireland games where you can almost feel the skepticism of some fans to get out of their comfort zone and shout/let loose.

It really bothers me I have to say.

I was absolutely blown away by the Clermont supporters, I felt so envious of them.

I'm really not much of a football fan at all.... watched some during the 90s more than I'd ever watch it now. But the one aspect that I've always really disliked about it since the 70s, with all the muck and rain and crowds all kitted out in shades of brown and grey!.... is the terrace chants.

I've always hated football chants. but it's only recently that I've probably realised why. English fans, and I suppose I include Irish people here too, just don't do it well.

I watched a game this year...and I think it was a German side (might be wrong) but the fever of excitement caused by their warlike chants.... in tingled the hairs on the back of my neck. But it was classy...the sounds were used to create a beautiful noise. It wasn't just badly chanted half-drunk sing songs - they seemed actually designed to fill a stadium with adrenaline. It reminded me of the movie Zulu and the warriors who used sound so skillfully in their war cries.

You listen to Leinster fans and Munster fans and Ulster fans and Irish fans and it's all so generic and pale. "Leinster! Leinster!", "Munster! Munster!", "Ulster! Ulster!", "Ireland, Ireland!"......

The only time I get that good feeling recently is when I hear chants of "Isa, Isa" It's more rhythmic and less sing songy.... it tickles the emotions and gets those passion feelings stirring. We need more of it in every context. Not intimidating yobbish chants (I want to see kids and ladies still attending!!!!) but more skilled new songs/chants/rhythmic stamping etc developed that give the chills.

I'd like more actual songs too, even if they are just 2 lines or something that would be something but yeah something a bit more passioned and less aggressive

Fly we're coming on a lot though.

Leinster have got Come On You Boys in Blue, Molly Malone and the 'Isa' chant you mention to sit in alongside "Leinster, Leinster etc."

Munster have got a "Zeee-booohhhh" chant and "Stand Up & Fight" and the Fields of Athenry are still common.

Not sure if Ulster have another song.

Point is thought we're a lot better than we used to be in that regard and I think that we will see these happen over time.

Dont forget provincial rugby is still a new phenomenon for many supporters. These things evolve naturally over time. For example in 2009 when Munster played Ospreys in the quarter finals of the Heino we all belted out "The Black Velvet Band" in honour of Tommy Bowe (who gave the crowd a big wave).

I was at the recent Musnter v Leinster game and saw dozens of Leinster fans leaping up and down shouting "If you're not jumping, you're not from Leinster" obviously having been impressed by Clermont Auvergne's trademark Ceux qui ne saute pas ne sont pas de l'Auvergne chant that they do.