Referee's!!!

Why do we all seem to be whinging about being on the wrong end of refs this season?

I know we all have a view on refs but we can't all claim to be hard done by, and I don't think a lot of us are.

For me there are certainly no teams who are being continually unlucky with refs, for every mistake that costs I beleive there has been equal mistakes that have benefitted each team.

Who has been hit hardest? And who has the right to whinge about decisions? We can't alll do it, refs are not trying to hurt all of us!!!

Discuss...

The refs are doing an impossible job pretty damn well.

I would love to see a ref wear a head cam so people could see their view of the game, rather than the multi-camera, multi-angle, super slow-mo version we get on TV.

I think the issues around the refs stem from the fact different leagues and nations have refs that interpret the laws of the game differently.

As a generalisation;

AP Refs tend to be more annally retentive but less likely to wield a red.

ML Refs are completely the opposite and will only bother to ping if something is cynical or dangerous.

French Refs are in between in that they ref the scrum and lineout pretty exactly but it's a free for all at the breakdown.

Super 15 refs tend to have optimistic views of 'flat' passes with an ML stance of set plays and a semi strict stance at the breakdown where the like to see both sides have their hands on the ball at least once.

Bluesman - that said i have only seen Tim Hayes at PYS this season, so I can honestly say that we are the only ones suffering at his hand.

But being serious 90% of the time, it is one ref decision that gets blamed for losing a match, when in fairness, the truth is that the team had 80 mins to beat the other team, and one split second decision by someone shouldn't stop you from winning.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Why do we all seem to be whinging about being on the wrong end of refs this season?

I was whinging about Clancy ruining the game for both teams and both sets of fans. Its different...!

LondonTiger wrote:The refs are doing an impossible job pretty damn well.

I would love to see a ref wear a head cam so people could see their view of the game, rather than the multi-camera, multi-angle, super slow-mo version we get on TV.

They tried that.

http://www.sareferees.co.za/news/ref_news/2189940.htm

People didnt care.

To be fair to people moaning about the referees, they more often than not have a point. The refererees are making mistakes.

However no matter what initative is used there will never be a perfectly refereed match.

red_stag wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:The refs are doing an impossible job pretty damn well.

I would love to see a ref wear a head cam so people could see their view of the game, rather than the multi-camera, multi-angle, super slow-mo version we get on TV.

They tried that.

http://www.sareferees.co.za/news/ref_news/2189940.htm

People didnt care.

To be fair to people moaning about the referees, they more often than not have a point. The refererees are making mistakes.

However no matter what initative is used there will never be a perfectly refereed match.

Refs are human beings. We have (or at least want) a fast and flowing game, so naturally they will miss things. If you were to ask two fans sitting next to each other at a game what happened during any given ruck odds are they would not agree with each other all the time, due to there being an offside line, back play, forwards on the floor, forwards stand off the ruck etc, to look at.

If people want flawless officating of matches then there would need to be more officials, and more time with the game stopped in order for them to decide amongst themselves what occured. And that would end up slowing the game down no end.

There are differences between clear cut mistakes and Refs not getting something correct.


Take Scotland v Wales and the try not given by Barnes. At full speed, with just one view, at full speed and at ground level there is a clear knock on. with the benefit of replays, super slow mo, zoom etc we see the ball was probably regathered just before it hit the ground. Barnes was pilloried by the pundits and on here for what was not a bad call at all.

The biggest issue for me is not mistakes - sure refs make some but less than the players do - but interpretations. As Sam outlines different leagues have different priorities. From a parochial view I like to have French refs when we play our Celtic cousins as then we both have to work out what the feck the ref will penalise.

the laws are too complicated, keep being fiddled with for "entertainment" reasons and the game gets harder to ref.

I am convinced we just need to citch quite a few laws and bye laws, especially when it comes to the breakdown and scrum and let the players police it more. Bring back the use of the boot I say! there will be far fewer players falling the wrong side of the ruck if we did!!

I cannot remember the last time I saw a ruck in pro rugby. What we get is a pile of people lying down having a rest, usually one opponent adopting the arse in the air ostritch pose and a SH digging for the ball.

A good point was raised by someone about the Wales v Italy match.

He constantly penalised the attacking team. This was the trend a few years ago which led to the mind numbing ping pong aerial 'displays' we were all subjected to for ages. Players with the ball didn't want to risk being penalised so just booted it away.

Over penalising attacking play just benefits negative defence

London Tiger,

Bringing back use of the boot would work.

However the IRB would never manage to reintroduce it. They would never be able to introduce something like that in todays heath and safety world.

They would have to face the questions of "Why did you remove it in first place", "Are you suggesting that stamping on players wont cause more injury (there will be exaggeration)". You'll have hysterical parents who wont want to see boys raking their little boys legs etc. Even the threat of more injuries can lead to increased insurance costs. I know when the maul was allowed to be collapsed last year there were clubs moaning that insurance for rugby players was more expensive as a result.

It certainly would improve things but it would never manage to get in. Once IRB lost it it was gone.

They will need to find another solution.

Your probably right stag sadly!

Although they wouldn't have to reintroduce it, rather do what they normally do and stealthily manipulate the game the way they want it to go.

At junior level it doesn't have to be allowed, I am quite a fan on rule variation for juniors.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Although they wouldn't have to reintroduce it, rather do what they normally do and stealthily manipulate the game the way they want it to go.

Or like feeds to scrums just turn a blind eye to it.

Yeah they could just turn a blind eye to it in the professional game. They're big boys, and they're paid well.

Blue, I think they do a very shabby job on manipulating the game. It usually has unintending consequences as they change one thing instead of looking overall.

e.g. the rule about carrying it back into the 22 is designed to promote attacking from deep. In reality, the ball was hoofed up the middle of the park.

After the collapsing the maul idea didnt work they brought in the ruling where its a turnover if ball isnt playable after a maul goes to deck regardless if you are going forward. The ruling on choke tackline was designed to have less mauls. In reality we have more as teams like Ireland look to use the maul defensively.

I think they turn a blind eye to the feed because they don't want a contest in the scrum, it is so much of a mess at present, if you give defending teams a chance they will compete harder again and attempt new tactics to get one over the opposition.

Therefore they don't want a competition either at the scrum or breakdown!

Blue,

I dont think thats true. I think the IRB very much want a contest at both scrum and breakdown.

However both such a mess they have a choice. Clamp down and have a few months with a lot of stop start games til players/coaching get the message. Turn a blind eye.

They have dug themselves a hole and need to do something drastic to get out.

The way to stop feeding in the scrum is to make it a penalty offence and then order a zero tolerance policy on it. Teams on their own line won't be trying the dodgey feed then.

Scotland have been hardest done by and have been for year - end of debate

Referee's what?!

Their inconsistency?
Their inability to keep an eye on RMC?
Their choice of cologne?

I think Ireland have been hard done by. Lost one game because of a perfectly good tackle by Ferris. That game could have gone either way. Lost to France courtesy of a harsh call on CH at the ruck. Reffing standard hasn't been great though they do have a bloody hard job.