IF!!! The Mclarens stay up there. Is it what we all want?

First topic message reminder :

I have been waiting for a season to see the lewis v button match up at the front!

dont care which one wins out, but from a british pride perspective its what i have been waiting for!

Whats everyone elses thoughts.

A match up you want to see or not?

Also i feel as though Vettel in a lesser car will truely show if he is a legend of the sport or just a brilliant front runner.


Off course the way things change in F1 it may not pan out this way. However i am looking forward to this season- gonna be going to spa,budapest and possibly silverstone this year- so it would be nice to get a proper championship going!

Its WAY too early to be discounting Red Bull.

Their time in the spotlight is over? Do me a favour!

I seem to recall they did okay in 2009, starting off on the back foot like everyone else when Brawn had double-diffusers on their cars, but caught up before the end of the season, with a few races to spare.

Some people have short memories.

Lets see how things stand at the halfway point of the season before we start counting our chickens, eh?

If anything, I'd say Ferrari have more ground to make up, even with the win in Malaysia. For the sake of an interresting championship battle I hope both teams are able to sort their respective problems out over the next few races. Would also like to see Mercedes throw their hat into the ring and get a better quali/race balance to their car.

I agree they've always been NEAR the top, but we're talking about dominating. They cant all dominate or it wouldnt be domination.

Critical_mass wrote:I agree they've always been NEAR the top, but we're talking about dominating. They cant all dominate or it wouldnt be domination.

I'm talking about domination the way Ferrari did from 2000-2007. Even if this season is a write-off, Red Bull could still come back next season and return to winning ways.

Even just looking at this season, 2 races is no basis on which to make a judgement. We've had 2 races and 2 different winners.

Williams are what I'd call an example of a once-great team who have dropped out of the spotlight.

Critical_mass wrote:Come on Monty its not a secret, F1 does indeed work in cycles. At the moment Mclaren are coming to the top of the circle, where as RB are making their way down the other side.

Compared to last season it does indeed at least appear that RBs turn is over. Funnily enough this occurred when the blown diffuser was banned.

I just find it unbelievable how ignorant people are that after one bad race for Redbull that their recent success is all a thing of the past. They might not be the quickest, but they are only definately slower than Mclaren. Cycles are a part of F1, but at the end of the day it's always the same teams winning championships, Mclaren, Ferrari, Williams are skint so fair enough they've went backwards without BMW. Redbull are a top team like it or not and have dominated for two seasons, they might not win this season but if they finish second like Mclaren did last season, have they no hope of being the best again?!

Ignorance doesnt come into it, it doesnt take a genius to know Redbull arent where they were last season in relation to the others team.

I might add i didnt say they wouldnt dominate again, but certainly for this season im doubtful they will. If they do next season, then that itself is a cycle is it not - regardless how short the cycles are?

How fast are mclarean anyway in race conditions?

I dont even think anyone could be sure they are.. lotus seem v fast to me. At present there are plenty of teams battleing this out

Myst
In Aus, the McLaren was celarly the fastest car in both quali and race conditions - not by a huge margin, but by enough that they'd have taken a comfortable 1-2 other than for the safety car late in the race that allowed SV to jump Hammy. The RB is up there as one of the best of the rest (Mercedes in quali so far and Lotus in both quali and race conditions being all pretty much on an equal footing), so while they have a little ground to make up, I don't think it is insurmountable from so early in the season.

The only issue I think the RB may have is that it is really just an evolution of the car of the last 3 years, which has been increasingly reliant on the effectiveness of the blown diffuser - take that away and I'm not sure how much scope they really have for performance gains.

Still, I'd rather be in RBs shoes than in Ferrari's for the next few races, unless the FIA can arrange for monsoonal conditions in every race - the Ferrari appears to have some findamental issues with grip in the dry which were glossed over by Alonso's extremely good performance in the wet in Malaysia.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:Whilst Newey is a fantastic designer, he isn't the only one able to design an excellent race car.

Redbull's time in the spotlight is over. F1 goes in cycles and theirs is over

You were saying!!?

Vettel in a far less competitive car takes pole. No blown diffusers just pure grit. Maybe Red Bulls time in the sun isn't over. Will Mclaren be left regretting not taking maximum points from the 1st 3 races?

Come on get real, its ONE race. Infact its not even one race its one quali session where he was only 1/10th ahead of lewis. It was a good, suprising lap from vettel but all this "RB is back" talk means squat unless they prove it over a number of races.

WHo's to say RB wont fall back tomorrow?

Maybe Red Bull will fall back. What if they dont? They have massive updates like Ferrari inbthe European phase of the season. I feel Mclaren will regret not pressing home their superior advantage.

But credit to Vettel. He proved to a lot of people that he does not need a massive car package advantage to get on pole.

I fully expect Hamilton to put him on his place at the start of the race because of the dominance last year. But if he does not break the DRS gap between himself and Vettel...

It's going to cone down to the better tyre manager out of those guys.

red bull look good- its not just vettel is it- its also webber!

Lewis has only done enough first 3 races- if red bull keep up this pace- for him to win this championship he will need 4 or 5 wins

It's a great season because not one drive is dominating. Ferrari still have time to get their act together and give the Great One the car he deserves. Alonso needs somebody else to win a race today like Webber or Vettel to keep him in the hunt come Europe.

no one is out of this yet, its to tight

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:Maybe Red Bull will fall back. What if they dont? They have massive updates like Ferrari inbthe European phase of the season. I feel Mclaren will regret not pressing home their superior advantage.

But credit to Vettel. He proved to a lot of people that he does not need a massive car package advantage to get on pole.

I fully expect Hamilton to put him on his place at the start of the race because of the dominance last year. But if he does not break the DRS gap between himself and Vettel...

It's going to cone down to the better tyre manager out of those guys.

If they dont and finish well in the race, then fair play. I'll see that as they're heading the right way now. But they'll have to do it again to convince me they're back.

Webber also is showing what he can do.

RedBull took a risk today underfueling their car and as usual Mclaren let their drivers down.

Vettel won the race but he doesn't look as dominant as last year. Let's see what happens at the next race

That's because he doesn't have the best car. Also teams always under fuel they're car's it's common knowledge.

The Mclaren driver's were nowhere on pace anyway today, i think even finishing 4th would have been a step too far for them today.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:RedBull took a risk today underfueling their car and as usual Mclaren let their drivers down.

Vettel won the race but he doesn't look as dominant as last year. Let's see what happens at the next race

That was interesting. Its a tactic McLaren adopted on a few occasions over the last couple of seasons. The lower fuel helps explain why Seb was so much quicker at the start. Agree it'll be interesting to see if this was a one-off or whether they will start to dominate again.

Critical_mass wrote:

Come on get real, its ONE race. Infact its not even one race its one quali session where he was only 1/10th ahead of lewis. It was a good, suprising lap from vettel but all this "RB is back" talk means squat unless they prove it over a number of races.

WHo's to say RB wont fall back tomorrow?

Hmm. So you're happy to say RB have fallen off their perch after 3 races, but think its ridiculous to say they're back after 1 race?

I think you need to pick a definition of "cycle" and stick with it.

Quote where i said RB have "fallen off their perch". Also after 3 races it was more reasonable to say RB arent current front runners, than saying they're back after 1 good race.

Ive not once contradicted myself in regards to F1 Cycles, thanks.

Though i do hold the opinion, certainly before this race, RB werent as strong as Mclaren and they dont look as dominant as last year. But then im not the one saying RB are now as strong as others after one race!

Im trying to keep an open mind and not jump to conclusions after 4 races. 3 of which RB havent look no where near the team they were in 2011 in relation to the other teams. If RB continue as they have today, i'll say yes they've turned things around and are serious contenders. Lets not jump the gun though ey...

monty junior wrote:That's because he doesn't have the best car. Also teams always under fuel they're car's it's common knowledge.

The Mclaren driver's were nowhere on pace anyway today, i think even finishing 4th would have been a step too far for them today.

To be fair I think Hamilton could have bagged 4th if his pit stops hadn't been messed up. Webber didn't look especially quick today. Vettel and the two Lotuses though were in a different league.

What Webber and Vettel did today was show how the RB works in and out clean air

Critical_mass wrote:Quote where i said RB have "fallen off their perch". Also after 3 races it was more reasonable to say RB arent current front runners, than saying they're back after 1 good race.

Ive not once contradicted myself in regards to F1 Cycles, thanks.

Ahem...

Come on Monty its not a secret, F1 does indeed work in cycles. At the moment Mclaren are coming to the top of the circle, where as RB are making their way down the other side.

Compared to last season it does indeed at least appear that RBs turn is over. Funnily enough this occurred when the blown diffuser was banned.

It is no more reasonable to assume Red Bull's dominance is over after 3 races that it is to assume they are back after 1 good race (although Seb was 2nd in Australia).

True your comment that they haven't dominated like last season stands, but RB are far from on the slide, as you said in the above post.

Ok, in the above quote maybe i should have said it appears, as it stands when i made the comment, that Mclaren were coming back up to the top of the circle and RB are going down the other side.

Infact in the second paragraph i did say -

"Compared to last season it does indeed at least appear that RBs turn is over."

So really i didnt diffinatively say RB was over and a new team was in.

I dont agree with what some have been saying on here, that RB is now back, as its premature to say. If RB contine, then i'll happily admit RB look to have got things sorted.

Same applies to Lotus.

Who's to say RB or Lotus for that matter wont finish consistantly in the top 3 for the remaining races and it was Bahrain that suited their car.. we just dont know yet.

Fascinating start to the season.
McLaren clearly had the fastest car for the first two races but were scuppered in Malaysia by the wet weather, then China Button was the only person who could have challenged Rosberg (even without the pit stop issues I think he'd have come up short). A bit disappointing yesterday though - even without the pit stop issues, they wouldn't have been better than 4th, having been almost level with RB in quali.

Ferrari lucked into the win in Malaysia with what has so far been a bit of a dog of a car. Alonso particularly has done well in what even he described as 'damage limitation'.

Rosberg and Mercedes looked quick in quali for all races, although with some tyre wear issues compromising their race pace in the first two races, and then were dominated in China. Surprisingly well off the pace in Bahrain.

Red Bull weren't great in quali for the first 3 races but showed good and consistent race pace to get Webber consistently 4th and Vettel onto a podium. Then in Bahrain they've rediscovered some one lap pace and Vettel was able to run consistently well in the race. However, he was lucky to take the win in that Raikkonen probably had the best car in the race but just had a fraction too much to do coming from 11th on the grid.

So we seem to have at least 4 teams with cars with potential race-winning pace in dry conditions (McLaren, RB, Mercedes & Lotus), with their relative performances seeming very sensitive to setup and to track temperature. Add to that the wet race in Malaysia, with Ferrari and Sauber being competetive. Certainly the most open early season I can remember for a long time.

Vettel is the man. I was in Devon watching it and all the English were cheering on Hamilton but I was cheering on Vettel and gave a big cheer when he won

you fishing steffan

mystiroakey wrote:you fishing steffan

Nah stag weekend mate. Nice place though if you diud want to. Havnt fished in years