Ireland 6 Nations Review
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geoff999rugby
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Ireland 6 Nations Review
My thoughts on the campaign:
If you could go to the website to have a look that would help
http://www.sportpulse.net/content/ireland-6-nations-review-3096
Declan Kidney- on the hot seat?
- Spoiler:
Ireland - 6 Nations Review
In many ways, you could have said Irish Rugby was close to an all time high coming into the 6 Nations. 3 of their main provinces had qualified for the Heineken Cup quarter finals, both Munster and Leinster were in the top 4 (being in the top 4 will get you into the playoffs the end of the year) of the RaboDirect Pro 12 league and Ulster were also in contention for a playoff spot. However, there were still some holes in both the first team and squad that needed to be addressed coming into the Championship.
The first one was to back to Johnny Sexton as a starter. There was constant switching between O’Gara and Sexton during the 2011 season and I think this affected Sexton’s confidence. During the World Cup, he was clearly below par in the goal kicking department and I think Ireland should have kept him in the team, but they should have put Ronan O’Gara at 10 and Sexton at 12 or move Fergus McFadden to 12 with Sexton at 10. If Sexton then had an off day kicking, McFadden would have been capable of stepping up, he frequently takes kicks at goal for Leinster.
The next issue was the centres. Gordon D’Arcy doesn’t look like the imposing player he once was at international level. The problem has been that Irish coach Declan Kidney has persisted with D’Arcy and hasn’t tried anyone else. Paddy Wallace from Ulster would have been an ideal candidate, despite facing the ire of Irish supporters in the past, Wallace is a great playmaker at 12, he is a solid defender and having a man capable of clearing the lines under pressure would help out Sexton tremendously. In some ways, the injury to Brian O’Driscoll helped Ireland coming into the 6 Nations, “BOD” as he is known to Irish fans, surely won’t play beyond the 2013 British and Irish Lions tour and we needed to try and find a replacement for him. In my opinion, Darren Cave of Ulster would have been a prime candidate to play there. Unfortunately, he suffered an injury prior to the tournament and he was unavailable for a large part of it. Keith Earls, who has played centre for Munster over the last few months, seemed to be a decent and logical candidate for the job. Earls has played very well there but unfortunately, such is the legacy of “BOD” his successor is going to have to live up to him and when O’Driscoll is a player that comes along every 20 years or so, it will be difficult to replace him.
So now onto the actual matches played, first up we had Wales buoyed from their 4th place finish at the World Cup in New Zealand. Ireland were awful, still employing similar tactics to the last time they played Wales in the quarter final of the World Cup. The Welsh backline is full of big, physical and quick players. How do you combat that? You get up quickly in defence and try to stop them building up momentum. A simple physics equation tells you that: Force = Mass X Acceleration. What did Ireland do? They employed a drift defence which allowed the Welsh to gain ground and if you try tackling a player who is around 16/17 stone (over 100 kg) who is running at full speed, he is going to continue to make yards after the tackle.
Let’s move on to the round 2 fixture against France, this fixture was originally postponed due to the weather conditions in France and actually took place after the Italy game. If you saw the first half of this game, you would have thought Ireland should win. At half time, Ireland led 17-6. I think that the lead was somewhat undeserved however, Ireland’s tries came from an interception and some individual magic from Tommy Bowe. I think the lead masqueraded some of the deficiencies in the Irish performance, Ireland showed little creativity in attack and some aimless kicking was occurring. This ended up being a feature of Irish performances throughout the 6 Nations and seemed to be a part of the Irish game plan. Ireland were relying too much on their defence, had little of the ball and were stuck in their own half for the first 40 minutes. In the end, it was a case of French pressure telling as Ireland came undone with a final score of 17-17.
Italy was Ireland’s second game of the tournament due to the rearranged French fixture. It was a solid performance, a decent win and no disrespect to Italy, they are a poor enough side. The final score of 42-10 flattered the Irish somewhat, however there were some signs of more creative play, with some very nice tries and some great interplay between backs and forwards. Johnny Sexton took the Man of the Match award and it was one of the game where he took control from 10 and he showed any doubters what he is capable of at the highest level.
Scotland were up next, Ireland lost captain Paul O’Connell through injury during the French match and Rory Best, the Ulster hooker, took over the duties. Ireland set the tone early on, after going 6 points down throw two penalties from Scottish out-half Greg Laidlaw, Ireland had a penalty inside the Scottish 22. Captain Best opted to go for the corner rather than take the points and it proved to be the right call with captain Best barrelling over Mike Blair to score in the corner. It came from a nice lineout move and it was unusual to see Ireland score from first phase ball. Eoin Reddan scored a second try for Ireland, a neat little break by the scrum half led to the try. Richie Gray crossed for Scotland in what was a very fine solo effort but Andrew Trimble crossed the line just before the half time whistle to give Ireland an 8 point lead. Ireland’s began to dominate the Scottish scrum and it led to a Johnny Sexton penalty. The Irish defence was superb throughout the second half and Scotland rarely threatened. Fergus McFadden scored a try with 4 minutes to go and the final score was 32-14.
To round off the campaign, Ireland faced England in Twickenham on St. Patrick’s Day. Both Stephen Ferris and Rob Kearney had fanned the flames prior to the match, citing that England were “sore losers and arrogant”. By the end of the match, both probably regretted their comments. The rain was heavy during the early stages of the match and handling errors occurred throughout the match. Ireland seemed to be having trouble at scrum time from the start. Alex Corbisiero and Dan Cole overpowering Cian Healy and Mike Ross. Soon after, Mike Ross went off with an injury. This was dreadful news for Ireland, Ross has been an anchor of the scrum over the last 2 seasons and Ireland have had a rather steady scrum for the last few years. Tom Court came on to replace him. Court is a magnificent loose head prop but he is not a tight head. The Irish scrum was obliterated during the match. England got a penalty try and several other scoring opportunities because of it. The scrum wasn’t the only problem for Ireland. They had trouble at the breakdown, giving up some poor penalties. Ireland’s lack of cutting edge which was apparent throughout the competition, was also seen yesterday, they made one line break over the course of the game and it occurred when the game was close to being over as a contest. England owned the ball yesterday, in the second half, England had the ball twice as long as Ireland. With the law changes that the IRB has brought in over the last few years, you can’t win a lot of games by relying on your defence like Ireland have. England were full value for their win, they out muscled Ireland up front and on a day with such poor conditions, the forward battle was key.
So where to know for Ireland? I think it is time to replace the coach, Declan Kidney may have delivered Ireland a Grand Slam, but he has done little to help Ireland improve since then. He may have brought through the likes of Sexton, Mike Ross and Sean O’Brien, but one could argue that he did so reluctantly. Kidney has persisted with players who are no longer up to starting at international level. Donncha O’Callaghan and Gordon D’Arcy being just two of those. Ireland are trying to play an outdated form of rugby that simply doesn’t work in the modern game. There are days when it works, like against England in the 2011 Six Nations and in the World Cup against Australia but it simply is not a viable option long term. This can be seen in our results over the last few years.
The Irish Provinces has shown that we have quality players available to us, we are capable of fluid back play and forward work. Ireland need a coach who can combine the two. Who would I like to see replace Kidney? I think former Irish international and current Harlequins FC coach Conor O’Shea would be an ideal candidate. Harlequins are one of the top sides in England and they have shown the perfect combination of forward grunt and devastating back play. They have similar players to Ireland. Nick Evans, the Harlequins out-half is similar to Johnny Sexton and Mike Brown is similar to Irish full back Rob Kearney. To take the next step at international level, Ireland need a change, we will have to wait and see what the IRFU will do about it.
If you could go to the website to have a look that would help
http://www.sportpulse.net/content/ireland-6-nations-review-3096
Thomond- Posts : 10663
Join date : 2011-04-13
Location : The People's Republic of Cork
Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
Can't argue with any of that,Kidney has lost it with this team and I can't see how he can hope to turn things around.He's had had a lot of grace due to the 2009 campaign but that's history now and his last 3 years have seen this team fall further and further into decline.
I don't know who would be the best choice to replace him but the search should start now as nothing is going to change under the current management.
I don't know who would be the best choice to replace him but the search should start now as nothing is going to change under the current management.
asoreleftshoulder- Posts : 3945
Join date : 2011-05-15
Location : Meath,Ireland.
Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
I wish people would stop suggesting Conor O'shea as the Ireland coach - he has no intention of leaving Quins. Said last week in an interview on The Last Word when asked about coaching Ireland "Its a long way off and I'm not remotely qualified for the job." (which is a nice way of saying he isn't interested).
http://audioserver.todayfm.com/audio/mediamanager/todayfm/audio/cosh090312.mp3
http://audioserver.todayfm.com/audio/mediamanager/todayfm/audio/cosh090312.mp3
Sin é- Posts : 13725
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Dublin
Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
Good article thomond. I agree nearly 100% although i dont think Conor O'Shea is the answer. If england dont get him is Nick Mallett an option. Lets not forget that all the coaching staff got new deals so would a new head coach be forced to work with Kiss, Smal etc if they had preferences of their own.
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 41
Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
I think we need an outsider. Cant see it being Kirwan he has upset the Irish rugby authorities re the Ulster appointment.
geoff999rugby- Posts : 5923
Join date : 2012-01-19
Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
I am interested to know why some of the Irish posters believe Ireland do not have the "big" forwards to really dominate.
Can't remember who it was but I was suggesting Nick Mallet might be an option and I was told that his coaching style won't work because it will be forward orientated and Ireland don't have the necessary size.
Can anyone clarify this?
Can't remember who it was but I was suggesting Nick Mallet might be an option and I was told that his coaching style won't work because it will be forward orientated and Ireland don't have the necessary size.
Can anyone clarify this?
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
Did Mallett not play some of the more expansive Rugby SA have produced for a good while?
Our scrum held up fine against France, Scotland, Italy and to a large extent Wales. Really bad day at the office yesterday but the players by and large are there. Some arent being selected and some arent in form.
Yesterday things caught up with us though.
Our scrum held up fine against France, Scotland, Italy and to a large extent Wales. Really bad day at the office yesterday but the players by and large are there. Some arent being selected and some arent in form.
Yesterday things caught up with us though.
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 41
Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
Standulstermen wrote: but the players by and large are there.
This is where you and me differ - at 3,7,9 and 12 I dont think the players are there.
We are praying Ross has the fitness levels of Hayes, we hope POM can develop into a Wallace type player, we hope Murray develops at 9, we pray BOD can be patched up to play 12.
Thats a lot of praying and hoping
A very simple question Ross is ruled out of the summer tour - who play TH against the All Blacks - there is literally no one we are totally, totally screwed.
geoff999rugby- Posts : 5923
Join date : 2012-01-19
Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
geoff999rugby wrote:I think we need an outsider. Cant see it being Kirwan he has upset the Irish rugby authorities re the Ulster appointment.
I think we need a few international standard props. rather than a new coach first. O'Shea, schmidt can get the old cheque book out, the international coach can't.
Sin é- Posts : 13725
Join date : 2011-04-01
Location : Dublin
Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
That's avoiding the issue Sin.We coped without props for the last 3 years under Kidney yet still have mediocre results,don't just concentrate on yesterdays result look at the overall picture and it shows Kidney has consistently failed to even stand still never mind progress.Ireland are becoming a poorer team the longer he stays in charge.
asoreleftshoulder- Posts : 3945
Join date : 2011-05-15
Location : Meath,Ireland.
Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
Yes but geoff at 7 we could try POM or Henry or look longer term and identify someone like Dominic Ryan. Im not saying any of them will make it but the former two have both stood out at the next level down from international. They can be tried.
POM came in, performed admirably in our best performance of the tournament and then is promptly dropped.
At 3 i agree completely. We are screwed.
At 9 it is something similar but Murray is learning and Reddan is a decent old head to have around. Arguing over paul marshall and TOL mistakes the fact that neither are 1st or 2nd choice.
At 12 we have wallace who has played out of his skin for Ulster lately and is ignored. We have McFadden who hasnt taken his chances and isnt a regular at HEC level (certainly not in one position) anyway but he hasnt had a couple of games in a row at 12 either.
In the 2nd row we have overlooked Tuohy and to a large extent McCarthy for a guy who isnt starting at his province. All down to experience, or his ability to lock the TH side at the scrum or some other reason that changes with each game.
A lot of the options might not work but we are guilty of not trying them. I realise that the 6N is our bread and butter and we need to maintain levels but the fact is we arent maintaining our levels of performance with the older guys so it is a no brainer to try other options.
All this is before we consider the youngsters.
POM came in, performed admirably in our best performance of the tournament and then is promptly dropped.
At 3 i agree completely. We are screwed.
At 9 it is something similar but Murray is learning and Reddan is a decent old head to have around. Arguing over paul marshall and TOL mistakes the fact that neither are 1st or 2nd choice.
At 12 we have wallace who has played out of his skin for Ulster lately and is ignored. We have McFadden who hasnt taken his chances and isnt a regular at HEC level (certainly not in one position) anyway but he hasnt had a couple of games in a row at 12 either.
In the 2nd row we have overlooked Tuohy and to a large extent McCarthy for a guy who isnt starting at his province. All down to experience, or his ability to lock the TH side at the scrum or some other reason that changes with each game.
A lot of the options might not work but we are guilty of not trying them. I realise that the 6N is our bread and butter and we need to maintain levels but the fact is we arent maintaining our levels of performance with the older guys so it is a no brainer to try other options.
All this is before we consider the youngsters.
Standulstermen- Posts : 5451
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 41
Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
Do we really need a 7? If you look at the numbers, there was only one game we lost in turnover ratio. That was England. We beat Wales and Italy and were equal with Scotland. I don't think the backrow is that big an issue. Just drop Heaslip!
Last edited by Thomond on Mon 19 Mar 2012, 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
Thomond- Posts : 10663
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
O'Mahony can be our seven long term. He's capable of developing into a very good openside if he gets gametime there. Different style to Wallace.
Notch- Moderator
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
He is capable alright. I don't think it's our greatest need. All our forwards are decent at disrupting the ball so we can just pick a backrow unit rather than just a 7.
Thomond- Posts : 10663
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
I agree with the sentiment that a specialist 7 isn't necessary, the all round skills of a backrow in combination can be as effective.
Biltong- Moderator
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
I agree some positions are better than other - we need Murray and POM to get extended runs at 9 and 7 respectively.
We need Ryan to be a regular in the 2nd row.
We need BOD to fill in at 12 for a short period and I believe Cave should get a run at 13.
Also when ROG retires 10 is a potential banana skin and I would like to see Madigan getting more game time.
LH I think we will cope as for example I honestly believe Callum Black (Ulster's 3rd choice LH) is as good a LH as Ireland's second choice TH - whoever you think that is. I actually think Declan Fitzpatrick is technically the next best TH but he struggles with the physicality of the game.
3 is the killer position
Ireland would really benefit if Madigan and Hagan were at clubs where they get more game time. Also we need to swallow our pride and get Andress involved.
We need Ryan to be a regular in the 2nd row.
We need BOD to fill in at 12 for a short period and I believe Cave should get a run at 13.
Also when ROG retires 10 is a potential banana skin and I would like to see Madigan getting more game time.
LH I think we will cope as for example I honestly believe Callum Black (Ulster's 3rd choice LH) is as good a LH as Ireland's second choice TH - whoever you think that is. I actually think Declan Fitzpatrick is technically the next best TH but he struggles with the physicality of the game.
3 is the killer position
Ireland would really benefit if Madigan and Hagan were at clubs where they get more game time. Also we need to swallow our pride and get Andress involved.
geoff998rugby- Posts : 5249
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
Selecting your international side from. effectively, only 3 teams will always leave the risk of lack of depth in certain positions. This is partly alleviated by IRFU's new NIQ rules.
There are good players however, as can be seen in European campaigns. Wales are perhaps the only team in the 6Ns who are better than the sum of their parts. So Leinster & munster (Ulster to a lesser degree) would perform better against international sides than Ireland would. This highlights the achievements of Gatland and perhaps the deficiencies of Kidney?
Since the 09 Slam Ireland have underperformed on the international stage. Last year a pretty poor campaign was rescued by the performance against England.
The WC warm-ups were poor and looking just at the England game, Ireland were perhaps outplayed by more than at the weekend. Suddenley in th ewC itself you manage a ferocious performance against australia to win and top the group. Suddenly we hear "In Deccie we trust" and all is rosy - till the Q/F.
Things could have been different this 6Ns if you had beaten Wales. While Wales probably deserved to win on balance of play - it took a marginal decision to give them the winning kick. This papers over the issue of the back row balance - Heaslip is magnificent for Leinster but a shadow for Ireland; SOB is not a 7. A more balanced back row (lesser players perhaps but round pegs in round holes) could well have won that game and who knows where the chamionship would have gone.
In summary - development of players in key positions has been poor. IRFU trying to address but will take time.
Kidney seems short of ideas on how to develop the side.
There are good players however, as can be seen in European campaigns. Wales are perhaps the only team in the 6Ns who are better than the sum of their parts. So Leinster & munster (Ulster to a lesser degree) would perform better against international sides than Ireland would. This highlights the achievements of Gatland and perhaps the deficiencies of Kidney?
Since the 09 Slam Ireland have underperformed on the international stage. Last year a pretty poor campaign was rescued by the performance against England.
The WC warm-ups were poor and looking just at the England game, Ireland were perhaps outplayed by more than at the weekend. Suddenley in th ewC itself you manage a ferocious performance against australia to win and top the group. Suddenly we hear "In Deccie we trust" and all is rosy - till the Q/F.
Things could have been different this 6Ns if you had beaten Wales. While Wales probably deserved to win on balance of play - it took a marginal decision to give them the winning kick. This papers over the issue of the back row balance - Heaslip is magnificent for Leinster but a shadow for Ireland; SOB is not a 7. A more balanced back row (lesser players perhaps but round pegs in round holes) could well have won that game and who knows where the chamionship would have gone.
In summary - development of players in key positions has been poor. IRFU trying to address but will take time.
Kidney seems short of ideas on how to develop the side.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
Don't worry, Ireland have got it sorted out. We've moved Keatley and Hagan to bench warming roles in Munster and Leinster so that Nathan White and Dan Parks can get gametime with Connacht
Notch- Moderator
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
You're kind of spot on there Tiger, I don't think Heaslip has been that good for Leinster either though.
Thomond- Posts : 10663
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
Thomond wrote:You're kind of spot on there Tiger, I don't think Heaslip has been that good for Leinster either though.
Perhaps my view is inflated by his performance in one of teh HC matches with Glasgow where he put in the best performance I have seen from a No* this year. Personally I would play 6 Ferris, 7 POM, 8 SOB - but again you have the issue of players being selected in non-club positions.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations Review
I think backrow isn't as big a problem as some are making it but I would be happy with that unit.
Thomond- Posts : 10663
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Location : The People's Republic of Cork
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