Vettel 2012

Bonjourno!

Firstly, congratulations to Fernando Alonso on winning the Grand Prix of Malaysia. The rain master gave a strong performance and now currently sits on top of the WDC. Long may it continue!

Now to business...

I have read some absolute plop about how Seb Vettel is now finished in Formula 1 without his exhaust blown diffuser. Suddenly he is the crash kid that can't over take. Then, allegedly, he is going to get a whooping from Mark Webber. If you seriously believe that Vettel in a Red Bull is finished this season then you are going to be in for one hell of a suprise.

Webber out qualifies Vettel at Australia: -

“We would have loved to have been closer to the front, but in Q3 I wasn’t happy with my lap,” said Vettel. “I made a mistake at the beginning and lost some time, so that was down to me.”

Had it not been for that mistake then Vettel would have been closer to the front of the grid rather than back where he was.

Vettels performance in Australia: -

People say that the 'Crash Kid' can't over take. Did you miss his overtake on Rosberg in turn 10 during the GP? A very skillful and brave move. He enjoyed a bit of luck to get him into 2nd place with the safety car, but once there he was no slouch. It is clear that the Mclaren is the quickest car on the grid and he was more than up to the task of keeping Hamilton behind him. In fact he left him behind with his excellent race pace. If I were a Mclaren or Hamilton fan then I would be very worried by this. Hamilton should have seized the day, turned his engine up and regained his position but he could not keep up with the German.

Red Bull Qualifying in Malaysia

Mark Webber: “My KERS power-boost system was not working in qualifying and my teammate Sebastian Vettel made a couple of mistakes on his laps."

So Red Bull is having problems with their car. It reflects on the set up during qualifying where Vettel makes mistakes and they still have this glitchy KERS system. Again this would have put Red Bull in the business end of the grid should they extract the potential from their car.

Red Bull Race Performance in Malaysia

During the race cars with mechanical grip were at the front lapping very quickly considering the conditions. As the track tried up though I remember Martin Brundle saying the Red Bulls were 'coming alive' as their cars were going faster and utilising the aero performance parts of their cars. Both were setting quicker lap times than the Mclaren boys who seemed to be struggling with race pace once the track had dried.

Yes, Vettel had a coming together with an HRT which was deemed the HRT drivers fault by the race stewards and that ruined his race. Who knows how far up the grid he would of finished had he not had that incident.

Vettel needs the best car to win

Absolute nonsense! If you are one of the many people who think Vettel needs the best machinery to win, well you are sadly mistaken. Unlike other drivers, Vettel did time in a 'back of the pack' team and even won Monza 2008. He obliterated his team mate and achieved impossible results in a plastic red bull. The guy is a natural winner.

Malaysia was a race where anything and everything can happen. Australia has been the only race where the cars have shown exactly where the drivers are in relation to each other and The Finger is right up there.

Now I will wait for Vettel to prove me right about having faith in his undoubted ability whilst some people here continue to belittle his amazing achievements.

Forza Vettel!

Forza the Current WDC Leader Fernando Alonso!

Vettel won in a Torro Rosso in changeable conditions. Something Perez would have done if he wasn't warned off by Ferrari International Assistance.

I understand why you like the RedBull model, very similar to Ferrari. Put all the support behind one driver.

Vettel is a good driver but his dominance was helped by having the all conquering blown diffuser. Lets see how good he is without it this season. Alonso's not won a world championship since the mass damper and he's a quality driver, and has got more talent in his eye brows than the finger.

We'll see

Monza 2008 wasn't in changeable conditions. Qualifying and the race were in heavy rain and Vettel completely dominated both. The win wasn't even remotely lucky.

Who said it was lucky? Why didn't he win more races then? The conditions helped immensely, just like the blown diffuser. Lets see what the finger can do when his car isn't a second faster than everone elses

Belgarion of Riva wrote:Lets see what the finger can do when his car isn't a second faster than everone elses

We already know what happens. Vettel's domination ends immediately and he's starts crashing again. Fact! No qualification poles this season and no wins this season.....It can't be much simpler than that!

John wrote:

Belgarion of Riva wrote:Lets see what the finger can do when his car isn't a second faster than everone elses

No qualification poles this season and no wins this season.....It can't be much simpler than that!

It's a bit early to judge tbh John, I could easily just say Hamilton has a mental weakness from bottling pole twice but it would be wrong because it's way too early in the season to judge.

fernando wrote:

John wrote:

Belgarion of Riva wrote:Lets see what the finger can do when his car isn't a second faster than everone elses

No qualification poles this season and no wins this season.....It can't be much simpler than that!

It's a bit early to judge tbh John, I could easily just say Hamilton has a mental weakness from bottling pole twice but it would be wrong because it's way too early in the season to judge.

That's it though......is it too early to judge? Vettel dominated, broke nearly every record in the book thanks to the blown diffuser and now suddenly it gone and so have his wins. Vettel not winning for two races is unbelievable.......that's how much he dominated and how this season has dramatically changed him and the position he finds himself in on the grid. Yes, I understand it's only two races in but let's face it.....the RB8 is nowhere near last year's car and Vettel knows it and that's why he's making mistakes......YES, Vettel makes mistakes....unheard of in 2011!. Hamilton taking two poles and blowing them is also shocking in my opinion, albeit one was in changeable conditions but his record or pole/win conversion rate is nothing spectacular. I think Lewis is far more comfortable and suits his racing style when he has a car to chase and overtake. That's why his best performances come when coming through the field, e.g China

well personally i feel this championship is wide open. different teams loook better in different scenarios, some seem to be quicker on certain tyres, certain fuel loads, worn tyes, straights. drs also helps bring other teams into racing- anyone could win this and that also includes vettel- who lets be honest come second first race!!

Mark Webber had the same car last year. Why didn't he finish second in every race if that car was so good?

I could tell you why but you won't like it. Didn't Hamilton come through the field because other teams made bad calls in China with tyres and two stopping? While he fluked a three stop and had easy over takes.

Vettel came second in Australia... By coming through the grid... Wheel to wheel racing... Without crashing... In a car not regarded as the best on the grid... To finish ahead of the pole sitter!!!

And you say this boy can't race!!!

Vettel is a good driver, so is hamilton, so is alonson, so is button, schuy is also getting back into it, that french dude grungeng(sorry for not checking spelling!!) also looks decent.

I reakon this season is gonna be as tight as imaginable and the best driver will come out on top.

my money is on Ham head!!

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:Mark Webber had the same car last year. Why didn't he finish second in every race if that car was so good?

I could tell you why but you won't like it. Didn't Hamilton come through the field because other teams made bad calls in China with tyres and two stopping? While he fluked a three stop and had easy over takes.

Vettel came second in Australia... By coming through the grid... Wheel to wheel racing... Without crashing... In a car not regarded as the best on the grid... To finish ahead of the pole sitter!!!

And you say this boy can't race!!!

Alessando you've started again, as usual with half the facts and the rest rubbish. Webber had so many issues with reliability last year and Vettel had the full support of RedBull.

Hamilton was fantastic in China, anyone with a brain will say that and he got his strategy perfect and beat everyone on the day making superb overtakes, none of them easy.

Vettel came second in Australia because of the safety car, he wouldn't have if there had been no safety car.

Webber's beating him already this season just like the majority of his first championship season but got undone with a pitstop like Alonso.

No one is saying Vettel can't drive a race car really fast, we are saying he isn't the all conquering superman and now he struggles to properly overtake backmarkers.

Let's see how the season goes, the crashkid is back with a vengeance.

Alessandro's ability to be outrageously selective with his "facts" never ceases to amaze me.

The ONLY fact is that the 2012 Red Bull is only "up there with the best" instead of decisively better than the rest of the grid as the 2011 car was.

All the rest is just speculation and opinion.

Obviously when you don't have a dominant car, you have to try harder and use whatever skills you've been blessed with/developed, to increase performance, which inevitably leads to a greater chance of human error.

As I said on another thread, lets see how things stand when we're halfway through the season, before we start getting cocky about particular drivers / teams. As anyone who's followed F1 for more than a couple of seasons knows, things can change pretty quickly over the course of a season.

mystiroakey wrote:Vettel is a good driver, so is hamilton, so is alonson, so is button, schuy is also getting back into it, that french dude grungeng(sorry for not checking spelling!!) also looks decent.

I reakon this season is gonna be as tight as imaginable and the best driver will come out on top.

my money is on Eagle iThrust Ham head!!

I knew I recognised the new HRT from somewhere!

mystiroakey wrote:Vettel is a good driver, so is hamilton, so is alonson, so is button, schuy is also getting back into it, that french dude grungeng(sorry for not checking spelling!!) also looks decent.

I reakon this season is gonna be as tight as imaginable and the best driver will come out on top.

my money is on Eagle iThrust Ham head!!

Geoff > Eagle iThrust Ham head

Just seen Johnny Herbert on the Sky F1 magazine show and he was explaining why he awarded the penalty to the HRT driver and not Vettel. The HRT was positioned far left of the track near the White line. As Vettel completes the overtake you can clearly see the HRT drifting over to the right because re driver is looking on his left mirror to see what was behind him. Mark Webber was 6 seconds behind and not even insight. I'm guessing as he looks left his habit is to drift right. But the idiot had no spacial awareness around his car at the point of impact.

It was poor blue flag management from the HRT and Vettel clearly was not at fault. You can see this on YouTube. The Finger is awaiting an apology!

Herbert is quite clearly a great ambassador from Britain to represet fairly as a race steward advisor. One of the best on fact an again he proved that with this decision.

Haters will continue to call him the crash kid I am sure. What ever makes you confident in your own drivers abilities.

I don't see the point of debating this event anymore. I agree it wasn't Vettel's fault but he has known previously that the HRT was a 'enhanced hazard' to overtake, especially in the hands of NK. Look I'm not slating Vettel, he drove superbly in Australia, however without the blown-diffuser he is half the driver......and that is the main point or worry for Vettel himself and for his fans. He's lost his untouchable aura and his crucial qualifying pace which was the foundation for his success.

I must concede, i also saw that footage and now have done a U turn on what i said previous. It did indeed look like NKs fault.

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:Just seen Johnny Herbert on the Sky F1 magazine show and he was explaining why he awarded the penalty to the HRT driver and not Vettel. The HRT was positioned far left of the track near the White line. As Vettel completes the overtake you can clearly see the HRT drifting over to the right because re driver is looking on his left mirror to see what was behind him. Mark Webber was 6 seconds behind and not even insight. I'm guessing as he looks left his habit is to drift right. But the idiot had no spacial awareness around his car at the point of impact.

It was poor blue flag management from the HRT and Vettel clearly was not at fault. You can see this on YouTube. The Finger is awaiting an apology!

Herbert is quite clearly a great ambassador from Britain to represet fairly as a race steward advisor. One of the best on fact an again he proved that with this decision.

Haters will continue to call him the crash kid I am sure. What ever makes you confident in your own drivers abilities.

Or "The Finger" could simply have waited a second or two longer before pulling back in front of NK, to make sure there was no chance of their cars colliding. I don't think either driver was to blame, as such. It was more of a racing incident than anything, though one Vettel could have avoided with a little more prudence.

Last years Vettel was never going to lose the championship, I would even expect Karthikeyan to win the championship in the car that Vettel had. This year its back to normal, hopefully the Vettel lovers didnt have delusions that he MADE the car be that good, he'snot a terrible driver but he aint the best.

Karthikeyan would beat Webber to the championship? get a grip the car wasn't that fast, it was great in qualifying but during the race the gap over Mclaren especially wasn't really that big.

vettels first fail to get to q3.

interesting

This is interesting, Vettel (the finger) won 2 championships because of a massive performance advantage and flexi wings is now looking rattled and doesn't look as dominant as we were forced to believe by a lot of pundits.

I've seen this somewhere before, anyone remember Renault and the mass damper during Alonso's stint there? 2 titles, then medicority. To be fair to Alonso though, he's clearly a special talent but due to his inability to co-exist with competitive team mates, scuppered additional multiple championships.

Using our dear Ciabatta's logic, is Vettel the second coming of the mass damper Alonso (without Alonso's talent of course)

Well said BoR. Vettel, it appears, was so "magnificant" due to the car. Although he could be doing worse (5th wasnt TOO bad), he's not challenging the front really.

Lay off the guy, he won the title with the best car two year's in a row yes, but virtually every season whoever's won the title has had the best car or at the very least a close second. He did however completely dominate, barely made a mistake last season.

5th from 15th at one point is a very good effort, with no driver dominating this season he's still very much in it.

Well said Monty.

After 2 years of being the dominant force in F1, Seb is going to have to get used to fighting for position on a regular basis. So far he's not looked too shabby.

I would imagine all but the most blinkered fanboys will have conceded the superiority of the Red Bull played a big part in his title wins, but this year we will get to see how he measures up when given a car thats only on a par with the front-runners.

If he continues how he's done so far, I think my respect for him will actually grow.