So what does Ulster’s Quarter Final win mean? Really!! To me!

This isn’t an article about how many or how few Ulster players get International recognition, nor is it a pop at Munster about who might be the current second best provincial team. It’s not even an “I told you so” to all those good friends who have had to endure countless hours of me telling them how good this Ulster team was and what could ultimately be achieved.

Lat year when the HC draw was made I cringed, as I’m sure many other Ulstermen did. Clermont and Leicester, two heavyweights of European rugby, stood in the way of at least equalling last years Quarter Final achievement. Me, I always though we were good enough. Never bragged though! At least not when I was sober . Like last years team, maybe I was thankful for small mercies. Getting to a QF after 12 years trying was, after all, a marvellous achievement.
Many thought Ulster overachieved last year. Would they settle for another Magners League/Rabo top four place? Would this be seen as progress? Not if you were a true Ulster supporter, we had tasted soup at the top table and liked it. We wanted more. But wait!! After a reasonable start we dipped in the league. Our better players were at the World Cup or injured. We were “a team in crisis”. Could our season be turned around? Clermont came to Ravenhill and the question was answered. The rest, including an amazing night against Leicester, is history.
We needed results to go our way and thankfully they did. Who will ever forget the wet Friday night in Galway when Connacht turned over the mighty Quins?
So an away win in a Quarter Final at Fortress Thomond Park. Not possible they said. Only done once in the HC. This Munster team were unbeaten in this years competition. Even I had my doubts. (See my prediction on Sport Guru!!).
Yesterday’s result was a wake up to anyone who doubted this Ulster team. The desire to win has never been illustrated so well. Players who were prepared to put their bodies in places where most of us mortals wouldn’t even contemplate came through the test. Victory in the “Lions den” achieved, even though there were those who though it wasn’t possible. There were those who predicted an Ulster win but did they really believe it? Am I happy we didn’t beat Clermont in the South of France? Maybe a little bit. It was maybe better to meet Munster in Thomond than in the Aviva!
I went to Milton Keynes last year and stood watching a team that maybe felt they had reached their goal. It was an admirable performance. Sure we might have won but it was great achievement to get to the knock-out stages after 12 years of trying. That and a semi-final in the league was more that we could have wished for. Sure given the success of Leinster and Munster this was more than could be expected. We had closed the gap hadn’t we? But there were those including me who thought we could and should have done better. Especially in Dublin against a Leinster team with an eye on the HC Final.
I was at the HC final last year. Sang my heart out for Leinster (and make no excuses) and came away wishing it was Ulster. In 1999 I don’t think people really realised what Ulster achieved. For many years we have had to endure taunts that the competition was without the English teams. We beat what was put in front of us that year. The best the French (Welsh, Scots and Irish) could put forward!
We now stand in a place where many thought it wasn’t possible. Win against Edinburgh at “home” and a game against Leinster or Clermont awaits us. If we can get past Edinburgh, and I won’t be taking anything for granted, I will sit beside my friends in Twickenham supporting my own team. How good will that be?
Stand Up For The Ulstermen!!

That's what rugby is all about. Great post, gutted,Munster are out but Ulster fans deserve something. They're good enough to go all the way. Nobody believed in them, but they were great over the group stages. SUFTUM

You've pretty much summed it up Rava.

Not much to add. Ulster have already exceded my expectations this season but I feel there is much more to come. I'm starting to believe something very special could happen.....

SUFTUM

Thanks guys. There are many things I would like to say but I don't have the articulation of some others who post here.
I hope you get my drift. This game is about the supporters and the friendships. I think that's what I wanted to get across most of all.

i think tuhoy looks to be a good player as does gilroy and cave but i wouldnt have spence anywhere near the ireland team

LeinsterFan4life wrote:i think tuhoy looks to be a good player as does gilroy and cave but i wouldnt have spence anywhere near the ireland team

LeinsterFan4life not sure what that has to do with my rant but sure you are entitled to your opinion mate

oh wait i read the top part wrong my bad forgive me it is 1 am

Rava wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:i think tuhoy looks to be a good player as does gilroy and cave but i wouldnt have spence anywhere near the ireland team

LeinsterFan4life not sure what that has to do with my rant but sure you are entitled to your opinion mate

Was just about to say the same.

Edit. Sorry just seen Leinsterfans latest post.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:oh wait i read the top part wrong my bad forgive me it is 1 am

Forgiven my friend. I'm pished as well

no probs i just didnt see the "isnt" part of the post...

Ulster qualified from a tough group. They were close to a win in Montferrand and thrashed my team on Black Friday. Their only "poor" performance was the match at Welford Road. The penalty for qualifying from a group where 3 teams beat each other is an away 1/4 final. However Ulster (and Clermont) showed theywere battle hardened and put in fantastic, committed performances.

Well deserved and well played.

Rava my bearded friend, i think you guys can be dead proud of your Ulster team. It was a cracking win and i can see you making the final so the best of luck to you.

When you told me a week before the Leicester match that Ulster would get a TBP i was not so sure, then when it happened i thought to myself that this team would take some stopping. I am not all that upset by Munsters loss on Sunday as i honestly feel that Ulster fully deserved it. Great stuff now go on and win the thing

The Troubles did it for Ulster rugby in my opinion - in my geriatric perception Ulster has always been strong and so to me these recent times have just been a blip so I only expect Ulster to get even stronger and the natural order in Irish to return.

I also hope David Humphries gets involved in the Irish set up - and gives it a good kick up the proverbial

I've written many times before that Ulster are plainly a team on the up. Winning is a habit & they just need to learn how to win.

This was a huge huge game for ulster - a loss to me was unthinkable -

I basically wrote in the "Munster - Ulster" thing here that it was Munster's ability to win or collective spirit versus Ulster's class. Personally I think Ulster is still work in progress in terms of learning how to win and Munster a side that looks like it had better days

Sunday showed that Ulster is a bit further down that road - just about far enough to allow their classier players to make the difference - but it was close and they will have to play as well maybe better to beat Edinburgh.

Clermont would be a real test - but - hey - haven't they beaten them once recently?

Croyman wrote:
Sunday showed that Ulster is a bit further down that road - just about far enough to allow their classier players to make the difference - but it was close and they will have to play as well maybe better to beat Edinburgh.

Really?

I do not want to disparage Edinburgh who shocked most by beating Toulouse - but you have to say that Munster at Thomond Park is a much tougher prospect than Edinburgh at the Aviva. After all we are talking about an Edinburg side who have won just 5 times in the Rabo and lost in qualifying to Cardiff Blues - a side who apparently are so poor they should be disbanded.

Edinburgh should not be written off, and they should be respected. They should also be beaten by Ulster.

exactly - but I think Ulster would like to play with a little more of the ball !

anyway - I was only being polite - (the Scots are cousins of the NIrish) - and yes I know the stats for this year are heavily in Ulster's favour - but there is a touch of a derby match about Ulster v Edinburgh as well - and with Bradley coming over to his home patch as well - so it will be a full on affair I am sure

the Ulster route of Edinburgh plus either Clermont or Leinster to win the trophy should be a lot easier than the route of Clermont (Leinster) and Ulster

Ulster should win but just as importantly leave (hopefully) a lot more in the tank than either or the other semi-finalists

Rava, this is a top post.

It is actually a very small consolation that Ulster have gone through.

The defeat hurt like hell at the time and I am so gutted. However it does actually make me feel a little better the thought of that Ulster will likely make the final.

The 'natural order' restored, Croyman? I assume that means how things were before rugby really caught on in the 'south'?

I'm afraid the cat is out of the bag on that one...and the past won't be returning to kick it back into a bag either.

Munster with a correct choice of new coach will find the bite needed to get back the passionate intensity that seems to have wilted somewhat in recent years. Who knows, maybe even Kidney will return some day in the not too distant future to teach them their old ideals that they seem to have forgotten for the time being.

Leinster might fall from their loft (even as early as this year) but I think systems there will make it a serious prospect for any opponent in the years to come.

Connacht have who I feel is the best Irish coach working on these islands in the guise of Eric Elwood. That man constantly turns bad/cheap deals, bestowed on him by the IRFU, into minor miracles. Had he real class to work with I think he'd send ripples through rugby bigger than any being sent with either Bradley or O'Shea.

Ulster have some serious Irish talent working through and raising their hands for international inclusion. They'll be a handful in league and Europe from here on in if they can keep the platform and the new coach enhances rather than upsets balance.

The natural order is Irish rugby growing - continuing to grow.... with falters and pauses to draw breath along the way.

As I think is now evident to outside observers, as much as it has been so apparent to us for quite some time now, Irish rugby is pushing itself on. It's not looking to or needing outside forces to do so. Ulster have toppled Munster. Munster now knows what its standards should be to re-topple Ulster. Ulster weren't waiting for exotic French clubs or English ones to test them - Humphreys said the big one they were waiting for and planning for was Munster. Irish rugby fighting itself and growing accordingly.

I really should avoid this but ...... It was especially nice to see an all-Irish match where both teams selected the strongest squad available to them.

I watched this game with interest as there were a number of South African players in it.

Ruan Pienaar kicked very well indeed, the Ulster fly half humphries didn't impres me and was in my opinion one of the reasons why Ulster were under pressure territorially for much of the game.

Munster in my opinion had the collective edge at the breakdowns and was it not for the inidivudual efforts of Wannenberg and Ferris on defence the story could have ended differently.

Ulster won that match on defence, and took their opportunities akin to a surgeon with a knife, few real opportunities but expertly took the points when they were on offer.

i would think there are two things they can work on for the semi final, more collective effort rather than individual effort and their tactical kicking for field position can be executed better.

Well said fly.

Not sure there is a 'natural order' but Ulster have been underachieving for years. Lets face it Leinster are a different class but the gap has been closed with the 'big two' and I would be bold enough to suggest that there is not much between us and Munster now.

We are there or thereabouts but until we lift the HEC and start winning trophies again then Munster are still the 2nd province best imo but its great that we are getting up there now and I want to stay there. Hopefully this is just the start and we will kick on from here.

I agree about Elwood. Lets hope the new natural order is that we have four strong provinces challenging for silverware and pushing each other to new levels.

About 4/5 years ago I could sense Ulster rebuilding and always said that this would be the breakthrough year. Changed it to next year as forgot it was a world cup year, thought players would be tired when they return and not up to usual standard (other teams have bigger squads to rest them more).

In H-cup while others doubted we'd get through I thougth it would be home wins and away loses for the 3 big teams an BP's would decide it and Ulster had a chance.

Been telling ones if they want to jump on the bandwagon, this year was the one to do it as next year would be a big year.

Only one bad feeling, I think we should get past Edinburgh (not easy mind), and I normally support the other Provinces, however Leinster are the one team I don't think we can beat, just the very poor record we have with them (Connacht have beaten Leinster more times uin the last 10 years than Ulster!).

If Ulster beat Edinburgh, I may end up supporting Clermont against Leinster, as I think we could beat Clermont in Twickenham, but I don't think we could beat Leinster there.

Sorry Leinster fans, but it's a complement of sorts. (also a part of me would love an all Irish final, I just don't know who to support in the other semi final If Ulster win).

Getting ready to buy tickets later on, any ST holders already with tickets want to tell me where abouts in Aviva yous will be?

Excellent post Croyman!! Especially about the cousins of the Northern Irish, the Troubles and the Natural Order of Irish rugby.

So gracious.

Oh and well done Ulster, but Munster were particularly poor. A bit of realism would go a long way ...

you're a very sensitive lot down there (though actually I'm part from a Carlow family) -

no - the natural order is that Ulster should be strong - as should Connacht - no more than that (I usually refer to Elwood as the Great Eric by the way)

Leinster has set the bar in Irish rugby - Ulster is trying to get there -

and yes I am aware of the GAA relaxation of its rules and the lack of professional soccer in Ireland etc etc

I also noticed in a Oxford Cambridge match a few years ago a Prop from St Louis in Kilkeel - not exactly the most historic rugby school in the North - yes rugby is flourishing in Ireland (here it is a minority sport) - and the more stronger sides to feed into the national side the better

I support Ireland but have felt a bit uncared for by the current set up - a team from Ireland - yes - but let's hope we get a full Irish side out moving forwards

Indeed. I honestly hope Leinster meet Ulster in the final. It would be a great day out.

I still remember congratulating an Ulster supporter after the 1999 triumph in Lansdowne. I said to a man (I must have been 17 at that point).. "Well done Ulster!!!!".. He replied "Not Ulster Sonny, Northern Ireland!!"

How glad I am that those games are gone and dinosaurs seem extinct.

Long may it continue and, again, here's hoping for a local Derby in London in May.

*days not games

Kingshu wrote:
If Ulster beat Edinburgh, I may end up supporting Clermont against Leinster, as I think we could beat Clermont in Twickenham, but I don't think we could beat Leinster there.

Sorry Leinster fans, but it's a complement of sorts. (also a part of me would love an all Irish final, I just don't know who to support in the other semi final If Ulster win).

I'd always choose two Irish finalists over any other outcome. Two Irish finalists means what we want for the island and for the provinces is achievable. Wishing/hoping (for whatever justifiable or legitimate reasons! )that perhaps one province doesn't show is in my opinion allowing for the idea that one province alone would carry Irish hopes and burdens into the near future of the next three or four years. That isn't and won't be enough for the success levels I personally crave.
That's why after the serious sense of sorrow I felt for a Munster side that lacked the punch and beligerent (rugby-wise) determination I have long admired, I recovered quickly and felt a real sense of joy for the Ulster fans and players. Ulster success can only deepen the reservoir of confidence on the island. Leinster will obviously be my choice for HC win this year but even if it does, Leinster won't be enough on its own to take Irish rugby through the next 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 years. Success will need to be spread around so that the pool of players really does become deeper and a sense of local joy comes to all supporters.

Like Rodders, my hope is for four lethally combative provinces in Ireland. The harder one plays, the more often the others should want to test themselves against it. Ulster should seek to play the best in the final if they get there - and if Leinster are it, the party should only be sweeter for them.

hope I don't have to repeat this really - but need to go out - the natural order I was referring to was that Ulster was "strong" - recently I would describe them a a bit (somewhat) below par -

and as inferred Ulster could and maybe are also benefitting from getting inclusion from more players from the various "divides" in the community

As someone else has said Ulster might well fear Leinster a lot more than Clermont - and Twickenham doesn't usually have the best memories for French players - whereas Leinster players may be more comfortable there

but on the other hand an all Irish final would be a great event

Croy,

That same "natural order" is that Ireland are whipping boys internationally.

I dont buy "natural order". Professionalism dented that badly.

Kicking myself for not putting a tenner on Ulster for the tournament before the QF's now, was waiting to see if Ferris was fit for Munster match then forgot

I think we can go all the way, but Clermont at Twickenham would be more winnable for us than Leinster, still I would probably prefer an all Irish final and the occasion of an Ulster vs Leinster final would be something to behold.

Croyman.... I was going to comment on something you said again... but I think I need to be certain of one thing first. Am I right in remembering you live in England? I thought it was so but now I'm not so certain as I'm getting the vibes it might be Ulster?

Truth is I don't know, so maybe a hint will help me calibrate my ideas.

SecretFly wrote:
I'd always choose two Irish finalists over any other outcome. Two Irish finalists means what we want for the island and for the provinces is achievable.

Feic off fly ya bollix, you want an Irish final because you always stuff us!

Seriously though, I sort of agree with Croyman. Leinster are the team I am least confident of beating, the team I fear the most. In that respect I'd much rather play Clermont.

That said I won't back an Irish side to lose so I very much hope its an all Irish final and if we don't win I want Leinster to pick up another trophy.

Not looking past Edinburgh though!

Oh yeah hoping to get tickets for the SF. Any advice on the best spots in the Aviva to go for?

Great stuff rava.

I have to say that feeling at the final whistle was something I haven't experienced in rugby before (not even when we finally did the slam). If anything I am more envious now of munster and Leinster fans as they have had those moments in the last 5 years.

If you could bottle that feeling and sell it you would be a rich man. Tickets sorted for the semi and I can't wait.

Standulstermen wrote:Great stuff rava.

I have to say that feeling at the final whistle was something I haven't experienced in rugby before (not even when we finally did the slam). If anything I am more envious now of munster and Leinster fans as they have had those moments in the last 5 years.

If you could bottle that feeling and sell it you would be a rich man. Tickets sorted for the semi and I can't wait.

Agree a million per cent. Did you enjoy Limerick Stand. Didnt realise you were down. Could have met for a bevvy.

Posted in the other thread stag. Loved it. Puts Belfast to shame in a rugby sesnse. Real pride in the people about not just the rugby but the experience of Limerick and thomond lark.

What can I say, I said at the start of the season that I thought Ulster would get out of their group and could even go all the way to the final this year. There were a lot of doubters. I also backed them to beat Munster. I think it's pretty obvious that they are a better team but for some reason journalists such as Thornley backed Munster to the hilt prior to the match. Why? Is it because of Munsters home record? Possibly but Ulster were one of the few teams to have hammered Munster in Munster in recent years plus Munster had lost their last match at home. In any case it doesn't matter Ulster will more than likely be back to the final again and I am very happy for them.

Just now, what Ulster in the semi means to me is that I have to be in 3 places at once on the 28th!!!!



Anyone have a helicopter we could borrow?

hi SF -

I live in England but I do spend time in Ireland -

My family is Irish - Donegal Carlow Armagh approximately - I was schooled in Ulster -

thus - I maybe hate to say it - but we all thought we were wonderful as I imagined boys growing up in any Irish province thought about their own province

I don't profess to be the complete Ulster fan - I don't live it on a daily basis but I have relatives involved in professional rugby and I have followed Ireland for quite a while -

I think from over here one feels a bit left out of the Irish scene these days when not that long ago (OK 15 years) I could wander down to London Irish and watch Humphreys and Henderson or Conor O'Shea et al and feel that I was supporting people I could touch and feel

Now I get the impression that whoever runs Irish rugby thinks it's theirs and now the've got hold of it the're not letting go - and I feel a bit left out

It's an opinion at the end of the day - but maybe more real is the feeling

If Ulster get stronger I assume they will start to figure a little more prominently - and I will feel more inclusion

More importantly - if the base of Irish players was fully and properly utilised then I believe the Irish team would be stronger which is what we all want

Like it or not my opinion at the moment is that over here or anywhere outside Ireland - the Irish side is not highly rated - which to me is pretty daft ------

probably the best set of backs in the world (with a richness of choice) ................. enough for now ........

An Ulster Leinster would be the most fantastic occasion - Clermont maybe easier to beat as the English hate the French and the match would be in London

BUT - Edinburgh first - they won't be shy or scared of the Ulster team - as I said they will regard Ulster as their slightly gone wrong cousins who need taught a lesson

Just bought my tickets! Whoop whoop!

clivemcl wrote:Just bought my tickets! Whoop whoop!

At least the semi was at Aviva and there was an allocation big enough for the bandwagoners

apartentally they are selling out quick.

I got finals tickets back in feb, so glad that Ulster have a really good chance of being there. semi final got today

Croyman I think some deal should be struck between the IRFU and London Irish. LI should try and sign Irish exiles and English lads with Irish parents into the side and encourage them to declare for Ireland. In return the IRFU should give funding to the club, and encourage young Irish players to go there if they can't get into a provincial team.

They mightn't want the expense of funding LI but I think there would be tangible rewards. It would be like having a 5th province for player development. But they'd be playing in a different league. In particular I'd like to see Irish props playing in the AP. Because the provincial academies are simply not producing them.

There are some decent players in Ireland who can't get game time at their province. If they don't fancy going to Connacht, it would be nice to have them gathered together in one English club with an old traditional Irish connection.

Id like to see our props in the English CHAMPIONSHIP not the Premiership.

Put them with Cornish Pirates, Nottingham, Bristol etc and let them get them play every single week.

Rouge, I think that would be a good idea if we could get more ex-pats/exiles into London Irish, however how about this one - there's been talk about a "fifth province" how about putting London Irish into the Rabo ?

red_stag wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Just bought my tickets! Whoop whoop!

At least the semi was at Aviva and there was an allocation big enough for the bandwagoners

Bandwagoners and the non-rich who dont have a spare £150 each season!

yep - you don't have to be a genius mathematician

If you now say that Ulster players were to get a decent look in going forwards then 3 provinces x 15 starting less NIQs = 30+ (well better than the x 2.5 going on now) = Irish squad - so where are all the back-up players - main provinces bench = almost 15 plus Connacht ?? = almost 30

All pretty tight I would say because where are the rest ? B&I Cup ??

I know it does me in - Exeter (my son is at the Uni there) has quite a large Irish base - their captain was voted into the Aviva Team of the Year last - Tom Hayes - 2nd Row - brother of the Bull - articulate - a leader (got initiative) - . . . . .. . . you've got to think he's upset someone - or - is he just like Coughlan ?

also got Andress (is he injured or just not picked) Steenson (OK got limitations and a bench man now) but Whitten is off there and I think he has talent - and they had a bunch of Ireland U-20s as well

Whatever - the playing base could do with being a bit larger

Feckless Rogue wrote:Croyman I think some deal should be struck between the IRFU and London Irish. LI should try and sign Irish exiles and English lads with Irish parents into the side and encourage them to declare for Ireland. In return the IRFU should give funding to the club, and encourage young Irish players to go there if they can't get into a provincial team.

They mightn't want the expense of funding LI but I think there would be tangible rewards. It would be like having a 5th province for player development. But they'd be playing in a different league. In particular I'd like to see Irish props playing in the AP. Because the provincial academies are simply not producing them.

There are some decent players in Ireland who can't get game time at their province. If they don't fancy going to Connacht, it would be nice to have them gathered together in one English club with an old traditional Irish connection.

I was thinking of this but I'd fear that LondonIrish would fall foul of the RFU. Think they would hatre to have a team in the prem that isn't concentracing on turning out English players, they would cut there funding. Think if Munster had a second generation player and encouraged him to play for England instead of Ireland, they wouldn't be to happy, just like the RFU wouldn't be to happy if London Irish kept doing it.

I would like to build a Connection with them again (now Connacht are safe and a plan is in place for them), If an Irish player isn't going to Connacht then try to place him with London Irish, send coaches over to Li every now and again keep an eyey on things, IRFU scratch LI's back they scratch ours.

I want us to win the Heineken Cup now! I'm greedy like that.

I'm very proud of my team.

Notch wrote:I want us to win the Heineken Cup now! I'm greedy like that.

I'm very proud of my team.

They have a great chance. The likely final is Ulster v Clermont in which case I'd make Ulster favourites given the venue. Leinster are probably the best team in the semis but I have a feeling it will be Ulsters year.

roddersm wrote:
Oh yeah hoping to get tickets for the SF. Any advice on the best spots in the Aviva to go for?

In my opinion (and I've been to new Lansdowne about 12 times in all stands bar the little north one) The best seats remaining are in section 516 towards the middle.

Just bought 4 myself. (as I can't afford to go to Bordeaux )

If you feel like spending double the money go 427. Much plusher but feck all atmosphere. They're in a corporate box.