Golf and Homosexuality?

First topic message reminder :

A great point brought up by mysti on another thread so thought maybe it was time to revisit an old bbc 606 classic.


Here is the old thread to get a feel for some of the sentiments of past and present posters;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A68851470


The old OP:

"I would like to start this discussion on the back of a show by Mark Chapman that I watched last night on the beeb. It was looking at homosexuality in sport and in particular the fact it does not seem possible for a football player to come out.

However, is golf any better? Given the number of players on the PGA and European tours statistically some of them must be gay. Of course it is not for us to say whether or not a players sexuality should be made public but would the golfing fans and golfing community be excepting of a gay player, at pro or club level?

I do not hold the belief that some do that if one player comes out in a big sport then all will be well and the sporting public will suddenly become enlightened. We need to ensure that any player that does come out can do without subjecting themselves to negative receptions and an over the top reaction.

Your sexuality in sport should not be an issue but is golf such a conservative group of people that no homosexual player could ever come out any time in the near future?"

I don't not approve of him going on, I couldn't care less. I just don't want to read about it or watch it personally. Fair play to those who do though, whatever floats your boat.

so you do approve then?

It's not my place to approve or not, I don't know the circumstances as to why he did it. But assuming he has made reasonable money from his career and I know he did some other TV work, I personally wouldn't do it.

I bet if poultry went on cbb you would a few words to say about it?

sorry diggs not trying to start up an argument just feel as though you do have an opinion on it just being abit obtuse on the subject!

Honestly not mate, I watch loads of rubbish reality TV with my wife, I just don't enjoy or see the point of BB but Id be a hypocrite to slag off those who do or indeed those who go on it.
I wouldn't do it in a million years, but I'd love to go on Relocation or something like that. And I like watching Biggest Loser to laugh at the porkers crying on it.

OK thats cool.

I couldnt go on any reality show not my personal bag- however being offered 200k would be abit tough to turn down. Not sure if gareth did it to help the stigma attached to homosexuality and sport , the money, for the media success or for a mixture of any or all..

Guess only he knows. He does seem to want a media career so Im sure that's part of it. And I'm sure the cash helps as well.

It amazes me how the BBC snap up all the gays as presenters. They seem to have proportionately more gays than non gays. Gareth Thomas, Stephen Fry, Graham Norton, Dale Winton, Sandy Toksvig, Clare Balding and that's without really trying. Not that it bothers me, it's just an observation.

Of that list GM though Id say most are popular and also very good at their jobs. Really like Balding, Frys a national treasure, Toksvig great on radio and Norton is for me the best chat show host around these days.

golfermartin wrote:It amazes me how the BBC snap up all the gays as presenters. They seem to have proportionately more gays than non gays. Gareth Thomas, Stephen Fry, Graham Norton, Dale Winton, Sandy Toksvig, Clare Balding and that's without really trying. Not that it bothers me, it's just an observation.

Yet another comment that confirms to me that most golfers are a bunch of people not worth knowing.

McLaren wrote:

golfermartin wrote:It amazes me how the BBC snap up all the gays as presenters. They seem to have proportionately more gays than non gays. Gareth Thomas, Stephen Fry, Graham Norton, Dale Winton, Sandy Toksvig, Clare Balding and that's without really trying. Not that it bothers me, it's just an observation.

Yet another comment that confirms to me that most golfers are a bunch of people not worth knowing.

Navy

So you agree with me?

abit strong dude lol

McLaren wrote:Navy

So you agree with me?

That would be a "no".

So you enjoy the usual golf club chat?

McLaren wrote:So you enjoy the usual golf club chat?

It's not the "usual" chat. If that's your perception of things, so be it. It's not mine. People at my club talk about golf, other sport, families, work, beer etc etc. They don't spend their time making sexist, racist, homophobic chit-chat but it appears you think most people do exactly that.

McLaren wrote:

golfermartin wrote:It amazes me how the BBC snap up all the gays as presenters. They seem to have proportionately more gays than non gays. Gareth Thomas, Stephen Fry, Graham Norton, Dale Winton, Sandy Toksvig, Clare Balding and that's without really trying. Not that it bothers me, it's just an observation.

Yet another comment that confirms to me that most golfers are a bunch of people not worth knowing.

I make a factual observation and suddenly I am a person not worth knowing! I did state that it doesn't bother me, and I agree that most of those mentioned are good at their jobs. I am inclined to believe that people who are quite that judgemental are probably not worth knowing either!

Hardly "more gays than non-gays" though is it.
To name a few non-gay sports presenters/commentators they have Rishi Persad, Manish Bhasin, Hazel Irvine, Lineker, Hansen, Shearer, Lawrenson, Alliss, Barker, McEnroe, Becker, Cotter, Carter, Grady, Agnew, Boycott, Blofeld, Green, Motson, Butler, Henman, Humphrey, Jordan, Coulthard, etc etc etc. And for entertainment/current affairs programmes they have all the Top Gear people, McIntyre, O'Briain, Dennis and Howard, Hislop and Merton, Jo Brand, Lee Mack, Miranda Hart, Alan Davies, Victoria Coren, Paxman, Wark and Esler, Fiona Bruce, Anne Robinson, Chris Moyles, Chris Evans, Wogan, Steve Wright, Simon Mayo, most of the ones of Flog It/Bargain Hunt/Swap your posh house for some jumble antiques/whatever it's called, all the newsreaders, breakfast tv presenters and so on as far as I know, etc etc. And those are without really trying too.

Mac's reply was a bit excessive, but it really was a stupid comment. The BBC employs tonnes of presenters, of course there'll be a few gay ones, a few black ones, a few from every sort of minority you can think of. There's no evidence that they "snap up all the gays though".

Ned

Stupid it may have been but I did say "proportionately more gays than non-gays". Just out of interest, can you name any gays presenters on ITV?

I'm not sure I can name any presenters on ITV full stop Martin. Ant 'n Dec? Adrian Chiles and Christine thing? Trev McDonald?

Does that make ITV bad for not having any or the BBC bad for having too many ? Must admit its a bit odd as I can't think of a single ITV one though I've imagined Holly Willoughby in a few scenarios involving other ladies....

In sports terms it's no surprise they don't have any, we've already established gay sportspeople are rarer than dodos full stop. Since ITV don't cover cricket, basketball or women's tennis they're pretty short of options there. I genuinely don't know enough of their other presenters to cast judgments, I never watch that channel now. Is one of the Loose Women looser than the rest maybe?

Colin Jackson and Mark Foster. Both gay as you like , so that's two more for the Beeb I guess.

ITV suffering from a chronic lack of athletics and swimming coverage there too.

Didn't Jackson do one of the dreadful reality programmes on ITV/C4 a few years back?

Not sure Ned, I do know he was a brilliant athlete but he is one of the worst pundits/interviewers I've ever watched. Shockingly bad as is his sidekick Denise Lewis. I do like Crammy though.

Is Jackson gay or is he a confirmed batchelor?

I think he is a confirmed gay bachelor Ben, often spotted in the bars on Old Compton St. Him and Foster used to share a house and were I believe an item. We do some personal PR for a few athletes and that is from the dept manager who gets all the gossip.

It has often been mentioned that Ollie is gay, so I wonder if his increased profile as a Ryder cup winning captain will be a chance for golf to tackle the issues of homophobia it is currently plagued with?

McLaren wrote:A chance for golf to tackle the issues of homophobia it is currently plagued with?

Plagued with? In your head maybe. Absolutely nothing on here or anywhere else to suggest golf is any worse than society at large.

Diggers wrote:You could say that players don't feel obliged to announce that they are hetrosexual, why should they therefore come out as homosexual ?

Mr. Hammer? Meet Mr. Nail-head. End of thread.

I would be a bit homophobic if eveybody around me constantly shouted "in the hole".

In rugby, Gareth Thomas came out and he had no problem with fans until he went to play league (no surprise there). One of the best refs in the game Garreth Owens is openly gay but well respected by all. Most of the England team are gay too but they dont get abused about it.

I cant think of any openly gay golfers. Tis true.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Diggers wrote:You could say that players don't feel obliged to announce that they are hetrosexual, why should they therefore come out as homosexual ?

Mr. Hammer? Meet Mr. Nail-head. End of thread.

Not quite end of thread. you dont have to announce to the world that you are gay and run around like a fairy in order to be openly gay. Surely some golfers (statistically 1 in 10) hide the fact that they are gay for whatever reason. When was was the last time a golfer brought their male partner to a Ryder cup dinner for example etc. Never heard it happen. Could it be that some clubs would be quite stuffy and old fashioned about that sort of thing?

[quote="McLaren"]It has often been mentioned that Ollie is gay[quote]
His dance on the green after a Ryder cup that time was probably the gayest thing I've ever seen, perhaps it was his way of coming out.

GunsGerms wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Diggers wrote:You could say that players don't feel obliged to announce that they are hetrosexual, why should they therefore come out as homosexual ?

Mr. Hammer? Meet Mr. Nail-head. End of thread.

Not quite end of thread. you dont have to announce to the world that you are gay and run around like a fairy in order to be openly gay. Surely some golfers (statistically 1 in 10) hide the fact that they are gay for whatever reason. When was was the last time a golfer brought their male partner to a Ryder cup dinner for example etc. Never heard it happen. Could it be that some clubs would be quite stuffy and old fashioned about that sort of thing?

Maybe not but Diggers point is still valid. Haven't we moved on enough to be able to say, literally, "Who cares?"?

navyblueshorts wrote:

Diggers wrote:You could say that players don't feel obliged to announce that they are hetrosexual, why should they therefore come out as homosexual ?

Mr. Hammer? Meet Mr. Nail-head. End of thread.

Are people shocked when a player kisses and hugs his wife after a big win?

Would people be shocked if a player kissed and hugged his boyfriend after a big win? (If there wasn't any 'pre-warning')

Until both these questions are answered no - then these announcements are actually required.

The kissing and hugging of a bloke would be seen as an announcement anyway, and it would also be received a lot more negatively than if they had offered some sort of pre-warning for the less tolerant among us.

Came across this sort of rumours before about Olly and even Sergio (couldn't care less myself if they like men, women or both).
Not sure on what these rumours are based though...

http://network.yardbarker.com/golf/article_external/sergio_garcia_interrupts_jose_maria_olazabal_interview_with_big_kiss_on_the_cheek/11849215

Simply because the global statistic for being gay might be 10% (says who anyway) it doesn't follow that one in ten Golfers are gay. People misinterpret statistics terribly and this is certainly that.

G mac proposed to his girlfriend recently, so hopefully any rumours of homosexuality will now be put to bed.

incontinentia wrote:G mac proposed to his girlfriend recently, so hopefully any rumours of homosexuality will now be put to bed.

On the helipad of the Jumerah beach hotel too wasnt it?

Indeed, I believe so.

Ha, the earlier posts on this thread clearly pre-date Fader coming out as Maverick...or rather being outed!!!

For the record I'm in complete agreement with Diggers, no one should have to feel obliged to have to announce their sexuality.

GunsGerms wrote:On the helipad of the Jumerah beach hotel too wasnt it?

Ooo! How romantic. I guess it might be but it's hard to see.

What did the beautiful lady see in the short, portly millionaire golfer.....
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?num=10&hl=en&biw=1182&bih=860&tbm=isch&tbnid=4EnTQsnUwqw5cM:&imgrefurl=http://www.golfchannel.com/news/fashion-focus/best-dressed-ryder-cup-gala-2012/&docid=q44BO-ekOvh26M&imgurl=http://www.golfchannel.com/news/fashion-focus/best-dressed-ryder-cup-gala-2012/~/media/A11BDC2F50064CBFAF3771E1FD420AD6.ashx&w=610&h=441&ei=c8SsULX7Euqx0AXznYDoBA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=470&sig=103366870956980491333&page=1&tbnh=161&tbnw=237&start=0&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:83&tx=95&ty=127

She maybe likes fat men who look older than they are. Even the grotesque Shane Lowry is punching above his considerable weight.

JAS wrote:For the record I'm in complete agreement with Diggers, no one should have to feel obliged to have to announce their sexuality.

Yes but equally no one should have to feel afraid to the point that they have to cover it up which is more likely the case in golf as it is in other sports.

You have to be realistic, no matter how many people claim to be completely fine about it, an awful lot of people to a greater or lesser degree are homophobic. I suspect an awful lot of sports fans are homophobic.
Unless you feel you are a crusader then why bother putting yourself through any potential grief when you can just get on and live a quiet life. Its not like thse things are actually big secrets to those in the know, its just that agreements are made to keep the facts quiet and quite rightly so if thats what the person concerned desires.