Edinburgh pick up Cardiff pair

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 12 Apr 2012, 10:28 am

Just hearing confirmation that John Yapp will be playing in Edinburgh next year and will be joined by scrumhalf Richie Rees - points to Laidlaw remaining at 10 for at least another year: Yapp & Rees

by **RDW** Thu 12 Apr 2012, 10:46 am

Happy with John Yapp - a good, experienced solid front rower. Not so sure about Richie Rees though. Haven't seen a lot of him but is he any good?

Would be good to hear Cardiff/Wales fans' views.

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu 12 Apr 2012, 10:48 am

Yapp got absolutely hammered in the scrum against Glasgow so I'm not sure what to make of that signing. Plus, he's no where near pretty enough for Edinburgh Wink

Rees a good back up I suppose.

The Blues really are in the brown stuff aren't they!

by XR Thu 12 Apr 2012, 10:51 am

Eh, Yapp can do a job coming off the subs bench but never really an 80 minute man.

Rees, i think we've seen his best days unfortunately. I was a big fan of his and it was a shame he never really took his chance when wales came calling. I thought that maybe the success had made him stop trying as hard because he was definitely a better player before being called up for wales duty than after. Hopefully he can rediscover that form, if he does then it'll be a great bit of business for 'burgh

by Comfort Thu 12 Apr 2012, 10:53 am

Yapp's not the greatest, but Cardiff were trying to convert him into a tighthead before and it messed up his progress as a loosehead. He'll be a decent reserve LH for you guys but I wouldnt be too happy as an Embra fan if he was starting any of the more important games.

Richie rees isn't the smartest of scrum halves, but he gets the ball away quickly and can really up the pace from the bench in the last quarter of games if thats what you're looking for.

Neither would be great as starters but both would make a decent to good impact from the bench, Rees can be excellant on occasion, his form merited call ups to the welsh squad and a few caps in the season before last. Since then he has been overtaken by Lloyd Williams for both the blues and wales.

by **RDW** Thu 12 Apr 2012, 10:54 am

Am actually fairly disappointed about Rees now, thinking again. I really hoped we could get a real top level scrum half to replace Blair and Rees I wouldn't really class as any better than Leck just now IMO.

Happy to be proved wrong and will give him the benefit of the doubt!

by doctornickolas Thu 12 Apr 2012, 10:57 am

Yapp was one of those players who should have been a superb international.

He first represented Cardiff rfc before the regions were formed when he was 18 which is incredible for a prop. He was a naturally stocky solid bloke the same shape as his dad as they were builders. His early performances were characterised by barnstorming runs around the field.

However he never seemed to get any better and even went backwards. For a guy with his size and background I just don't understand why he isn't a great scrummager. He has had 10 years at Cardiff and the Blues and has always really been the reserve loose head. He was tried at tighthead for a while and went to Australia for a short period to try and convert but it never seemed to happen.

Richie Rees is a decent scrum half and did well for Wales when used as an impact sub a year or so ago but has since fallen behind Lloyd Williams at the Blues and is out of the running for any further international honours. I think the Blues could have kept him to be honest as he is a decent enough player when Lloyd isn't there.

So both are solid if unspectacular players. The Blues need to replace them but don't have to set the bar too high to get players of equal quality.

by thedogg25 Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:07 am

To be honest im pretty happy John Yapp has gone, i havent seen a player got backwards as much as him, since his great showing in the grand slam of 2005, he provided great impetus and impact from the bench but is now a penalty machine with hands like feet. Rees on the other hand is a player i would have liked to have kept and keep lloyd williams on his toes as i dont think the back ups are anywhere near as good

by wales606 Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:08 am

gcBlues wrote:Eh, Yapp can do a job coming off the subs bench but never really an 80 minute man.

Rees, i think we've seen his best days unfortunately. I was a big fan of his and it was a shame he never really took his chance when wales came calling. I thought that maybe the success had made him stop trying as hard because he was definitely a better player before being called up for wales duty than after. Hopefully he can rediscover that form, if he does then it'll be a great bit of business for 'burgh

Rees has been playing better than L.Williams recently, in some peoples view he has been very unlucky to fall behind Williams for the Blues (mainly due to Howley deciding that L.Williams was ahead of Rees for Wales)

by **RDW** Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:09 am

To be fair if he's any worse than our current back up props - Kyle Traynor and Jack Gilding, then he must go down in history as the worst prop ever.

So hopefully he is at least better than those two!

by Guest Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:11 am

Rees isn't a bad scrum half. Had a rough season or so injury wise where Lloyd Williams got the 9 shirt off him and he's struggled to reclaim it. A fresh start for him could really breathe some life back into his game I reckon, as when on form he's a very decent scrum half. Could turn out to be a very good move for him I reckon.

by Comfort Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:24 am

a bit off topic but i dont get the fuss about Lloyd Williams, if his dad wasnt brynmoor no-one would be that bothered about him imo.

by Guest Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:24 am

I still rate Rees, hes still a quick scrum half, shame his Welsh career was over because of an innocuous eye gouging accusation.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:26 am

wales606 wrote:

Rees has been playing better than L.Williams recently, in some peoples view he has been very unlucky to fall behind Williams for the Blues (mainly due to Howley deciding that L.Williams was ahead of Rees for Wales)

I prefer Richie as he seems to be better at bossing his forwards at the breakdown and is also more agressive than Lloyd. Yapp is not a great scrummager and went backwards after his trials at TH, but he's a good ball carrier.
All in all two excellent signings for Edinburgh.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:34 am

Not too sure about picking up Rees, I know he is a good enough player but I was hoping with Blair leaving Laidlaw could have gone back to 9 leaving the 10 berth open for Leonard, Hunter or Scott.

What we really need is another lock. Gilchrist and Cox have done pretty well but behind them we have.......? Lozada? Who is ok but is he even haninging around?

by Impossible Standards Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:34 am

Never rated Yapp. For his size you'd expect him to smash people in the loose and in the scrum but he just doesn't seem dynamic at all. Richie Rees is a good signing though, was hoping the Dragons would snap him up.

by SGD prop Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:37 am

I would have rather tried to get Shiels at Newcastle as they look like they are going down.
Rees on the other hand could be handy but we need to start finding some young Scottish scrum halves soon as behinde Laidlaw if/when he goes back there is not much

by **George Carlin** Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:45 am

I think that the fact Rees has been signed almost certainly means that Bradley's intention is to play Laidlaw at 9 and Leonard at 10.

At least, I hope to feck it does.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:47 am

George Carlin wrote:I think that the fact Rees has been signed almost certainly means that Bradley's intention is to play Laidlaw at 9 and Leonard at 10.

At least, I hope to feck it does.

GC, I'm assuming the reverse - Rees at 9, Leck as back-up, Laidlaw at 10, Leonard as back-up, with Rees and Laidlaw both capable of inter-changing

by **George Carlin** Thu 12 Apr 2012, 12:14 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I think that the fact Rees has been signed almost certainly means that Bradley's intention is to play Laidlaw at 9 and Leonard at 10.

At least, I hope to feck it does.
GC, I'm assuming the reverse - Rees at 9, Leck as back-up, Laidlaw at 10, Leonard as back-up, with Rees and Laidlaw both capable of inter-changing

FACEPALM ICON

by Comfort Thu 12 Apr 2012, 12:30 pm

if your going to be using Rees at 10 (at all), i think you're better off signing parks....

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 12 Apr 2012, 12:35 pm

Comfort wrote:if your going to be using Rees at 10 (at all), i think you're better off signing parks....

Not really what I meant, Comfort, apologies for not being clearer. With Edinburgh playing as they do now, you'll notice that from time to time when Laidlaw plays at 10 and Blair at 9, the former will go to the scrumhalf role at a ruck and vice-versa for Blair - just varies the attack a little, keeps the oppo on their toes

by funnyExiledScot Thu 12 Apr 2012, 1:26 pm

I quite like Richie Rees, quite a feisty scrum half who likes to play at tempo. I'm not thrilled by Yapp, but he's better than the current back up to Chunk and if we can get him fitter then he's a good ball carrying prop (which is the way Edinburgh use their props).

I'd have preferred Shiells and Lawson if I'm being honest, but these guys will add something, and neither are really part of Wales' plans so will be available all year round.

These signings also provide a timely reminder to those in a hurry to promote a 3rd team in Scotland that we don't yet have the depth in Scottish rugby to properly service 3 teams.

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Thu 12 Apr 2012, 1:52 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:I quite like Richie Rees, quite a feisty scrum half who likes to play at tempo. I'm not thrilled by Yapp, but he's better than the current back up to Chunk and if we can get him fitter then he's a good ball carrying prop (which is the way Edinburgh use their props).

I'd have preferred Shiells and Lawson if I'm being honest, but these guys will add something, and neither are really part of Wales' plans so will be available all year round.

These signings also provide a timely reminder to those in a hurry to promote a 3rd team in Scotland that we don't yet have the depth in Scottish rugby to properly service 3 teams.

Oooh, ye just couldnae resist!!! kiss

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 12 Apr 2012, 1:54 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:I quite like Richie Rees, quite a feisty scrum half who likes to play at tempo. I'm not thrilled by Yapp, but he's better than the current back up to Chunk and if we can get him fitter then he's a good ball carrying prop (which is the way Edinburgh use their props).

I'd have preferred Shiells and Lawson if I'm being honest, but these guys will add something, and neither are really part of Wales' plans so will be available all year round.

These signings also provide a timely reminder to those in a hurry to promote a 3rd team in Scotland that we don't yet have the depth in Scottish rugby to properly service 3 teams.
Oooh, ye just couldnae resist!!!

Got to disagree. I reckon we would have enough playing at home an abroad to have 3 pro teams.

by **RDW** Thu 12 Apr 2012, 1:56 pm

My opinion is that we'd have lots of players to fill a 3rd team, but how many of them would actually want to sign for an untried, untested team in a part of the country that most of them will have no ties to?

by funnyExiledScot Thu 12 Apr 2012, 1:57 pm

Sorry - I couldn't help it!

GC - we have enough if you count all the players playing abroad, just, but obviously a 3rd region isn't going to be able to afford to repatriate all the Scots playing abroad on higher salaries (assuming they want to come). The only real outcome for a 3rd team at the moment is to pack it full of kids and journeymen, diluting Edinburgh and Glasgow, and letting all three sides get smashed and setting Scottish rugby back about 10 years.

by SGD prop Thu 12 Apr 2012, 2:41 pm

Well in my opinion the money generated by the HC should be reinvested into the academies/youth systems of the pro teams/Scotland to try and increase the number of youngsters that get an opportunity to play and train in a professional environment. Hopefully this will increase the number of players pushing for each position, hopefully enough to either have A-teams like the Irish or ideally create a 3rd team and eventually a 4th (well I can dream). At least make the U18 and U20 more competitive with resources closer to the other nations.
I just can’t see how we will be able to compete internationally with only 2 team’s long term, and I would like to keep a good proportion of the Scotland team to be brought through the Scottish system.

by Kingshu Thu 12 Apr 2012, 3:34 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but does Scotland not have one acamady, the players assigned to Edinburgh and Glasgow each year in a Draft?

or is it players from the Glasgow and Edinburgh are assigned to clubs in the area via a draft, was never sure about this.

I think the funding should go to creating a third acamady, with 3 Under age teams Glasgow/Edinburgh/Gaels. in a few years have this acamady become a professional team,

by **George Carlin** Thu 12 Apr 2012, 4:00 pm

I'd rather have two pro teams with budgets that are at least comparable to the likes of Munster, Os and Leinster and have regular competition for places between established internationals and good national prospects than three who are thinly capitalised and regularly have their backsides handed to them.

Perhaps in my current tiredness I am oversimplifying.

by nickj Thu 12 Apr 2012, 4:00 pm

I say spend it on about 12/13 more places on the McPhail scholarship.

by 123456789 Thu 12 Apr 2012, 5:48 pm

This means nothing in regard to another pro-team it just shows that our teams are viable options to players from other parts of the league; Welsh and Irish teams have signed our players in the past (Sean Lamont, Nathan Hines, Simon Danielli, Nikki Walker, Dan Parks etc.) it is just good business. These are positions we are short in. A third team would dilute the teams to an extent for now but not too much, some players would probably be brought back, other places would be taken by premier 1 players or young players meaning less and less players will be lost to the system. If we could get players playing earlier at the highest level then they will be available to our national side quicker.
I agree we need to work on our strength in depth but what better way would there be to achieve that than to have three/four teams with three/four academies producing Scottish players meaning more players are playing regularly meaning more are good enough to play for Scotland. It would also mean that there would be more places at our top teams to sign top quality international players therefore our teams would reach the latter stages of the Heineken and Amlin more often and so would be used to closing out and beating the best or at least playing against them so then we would have the composure to win games such as the England game or the French game this year. What would be stupid is to open one when the funds aren't available and risk bankrupting our existing teams so the only way forward would be private investors.

by glamorganalun Thu 12 Apr 2012, 5:52 pm

Rees is a good 9 so a good investment but Yapp is a poor choice, he always goes backwards at scrum time but is not bad in open play. He reminds me of Ben Evans a big guy but can't trnsfer his size into momentum.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 12 Apr 2012, 6:14 pm

George Carlin wrote:I'd rather have two pro teams with budgets that are at least comparable to the likes of Munster, Os and Leinster and have regular competition for places between established internationals and good national prospects than three who are thinly capitalised and regularly have their backsides handed to them.

Perhaps in my current tiredness I am oversimplifying.

Then we are agreed.

No-one should doubt that I would dearly love a 3rd pro side in Scotland, but it absolutely must not come at any expense to the existing 2 pro sides, who are finally starting to achieve results and produce players capable of international rugby, and the crowds are only now starting to respond to that.

by SGD prop Thu 12 Apr 2012, 6:19 pm

But if you read what I put I said invest in the youth and hopefully we would get in the position to have a 3rd team. Or hope one of us wins the euro millions rollover.

WHAT you can dream Tumbleweed

by 123456789 Thu 12 Apr 2012, 6:20 pm

yes but surely we should take advantage of the current buzz around the existing 2 and make a third team; the way to achieve this would be to sign foreign players of tier two teams, sign well-known ex-Scottish players such as Scott Murray and Jason White as well as someone like Chris Paterson and also play the top premier 1 players and a few age grade players as well as a few squad players from the existing two freeing up spaces for them to sign more top quality foreigners. this wouldn't be too detrimental to the current sides but it would undoubtedly improve the Scottish team in the long run, the SRU don't have the funds for more teams so why not let outside people do it, it won't cost much if any.
I'd suggest making an academy in four district (North - Caledonia Reds, South - Borders, West - Glasgow, East - Edinburgh) which compete against each other and possibly other pro12 academies. They should plough money into these assigning the best equipment and coaches, in this time they should find investors and put in place infrastructures for pro-teams well as advertising it and sign players.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 12 Apr 2012, 7:07 pm

All very nice. Won't cost the SRU a penny and Scottish rugby benefits. All win win.

Only one problem. Money. Whoever bank rolls this will lose an awful lot of money, and no, Carruthers doesn't have enough money or the willingness to lose what little he has all over again.

If there's spare money at the moment, it should be used to improve (a) the existing pro sides (absolutely the key priority), and then (b) age grade rugby.

by SGD prop Thu 12 Apr 2012, 7:29 pm

I would have it the other way round but hey ho at least we are singing from the same sheet

by 123456789 Thu 12 Apr 2012, 7:37 pm

I agree that they should put money into age grade rugby with a view to open a third side within 5 years and a fourth within 10, the earlier the better, but only when the money is available. I fully agree that we shouldn't risk the competitiveness of the existing teams but surely we can't even dream of winning the six nations let alone the World Cup or even regularly competing with the tri-nations teams until we have at least three teams.
Carruthers has said many times he wants to do it again and has claimed he can get a group together as has Keith Robertson in the Borders, the backers are, apparently, there and if it won't cost the SRU then it won't harm the existing teams

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/bob-carruthers-ready-to-try-again-with-pro-rugby-1-2199716

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/rugby/robertson-moots-revival-of-borders-pro-club.16205131

by funnyExiledScot Thu 12 Apr 2012, 10:58 pm

Yeh, I've read those stories. I'm not convinced sadly. I do think though on the other hand that a 5 year timeline isn't unworkable from a player pool perspective when you look at the strides we've made in recent years in bringing through players.

In the long-term you're right, ultimately Scotland should be able to support at least 3 sides. Just not yet. The money isn't there, and neither are the players, not without the massive expense of getting each and every one of the exiles back.

by 123456789 Thu 12 Apr 2012, 11:20 pm

To bring back all exiles would be stupid, it lets players experience a different style of rugby which will benefit the national side, in a squad of 35 I think 7 would be a healthy number of exiles. Obviously you want the majority in Scotland but I don't think that Wales' upsurge in fortunes is a coincidence with some players playing abroad.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 13 Apr 2012, 1:32 pm

I tell you a trick that Edinburgh have missed, Dean Schofield, returning from Toulon to Worcester (?).

Surely Edinburgh could have come up with a better option, offering HC rugby as well. This guy is a beast of a second row with great pace and hands. He'd be absolutely ideal to plug that second row gap. A 2 year deal would have been perfect. He must also know Cox from Sale.

by **RDW** Fri 13 Apr 2012, 1:44 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:He must also know Cox from Sale.

Knowing what Cox is like, that's maybe why! boxing

Great shout though - he's the kind of guy we need.

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