Would you want Eddie O' as your coach?

The latest spin of the Premiership coach merry-go-round sees Bryan Redpath exit stage left from the Cherry and Whites with two games to go in the season. Two games that could see them take the last Heineken Cup spot. Over rivals Sale Sharks.
Redpath resigned because he didn't think his performance was good enough - apparently. Also apparently, he'd still be good enough to be appointed as coach of Sale Sharks, according to recent media reports.

Funnily enough, there's another man waiting patiently in the wings to see if he can get a chance to re-ignite his coaching skills. Former Ireland Manager, Eddie O'Sullivan, has been interviewed for the post at Sale. And he's now also being linked with the newly vacant post at Gloucester.

Eddie put himself forward for the England manager job (well he got a first interview anyway), and his name was bandied about in relation to Munster, Ulster and one of the Welsh regions in the last few flurries of coach-switching. But he hasn't won anyone over yet.

Conor O'Shea and Mark McCall have been doing okay at Quins and Sarries, and Mick Bradley has been none too shabby with his deliberate dereliction of the Pro 12 in favour of the brighter lights on the European front for Edinburgh.

Could Eddie follow his countrymen's example across the water in managing and rehabilitating another Premiership club?

Or should he not be allowed next or near one?

Pot - I honestly believe that EoS is the most underrated coach around at present and I think that he was given slightly more of a rough ride by Irish fans than his record would indicate he deserved.I think if he'd been a more combustible and pugnacious type like Gatland, then the press would have left him alone more.

When the nail on which Andy Robinson's coat was placed really started to wobble this spring, Eddie was one of the names bandied around to replace him. I think that at the moment, I would still rather have EoS than AR.

George Carlin wrote:Pot - I honestly believe that EoS is the most underrated coach around at present and I think that he was given slightly more of a rough ride by Irish fans than his record would indicate he deserved.I think if he'd been a more combustible and pugnacious type like Gatland, then the press would have left him alone more.

When the nail on which Andy Robinson's coat was placed really started to wobble this spring, Eddie was one of the names bandied around to replace him. I think that at the moment, I would still rather have EoS than AR.

+1 GC, I am persuaded of his worth, and would gladly see him in place of Robinson

I think hes a good coach and he seems to have a good grasp of back play so i wouldn't mind him at the O's as head coach or backs coach!

EOS has seen a huge increase in reputation since he stepped down from Ireland. The same thing that happened to Robinson at Edinburgh.

Personally I thought he was a disaster as Ireland Coach - he had a fantastic array of players at his available and seemed to squeeze every ounce of talent from them and leave it in the changing room. At the same time he was competing with Robinson, Laporte and Williams in a hard fought fight to be the worst coach in the 6Ns.

George Carlin wrote:Pot - I honestly believe that EoS is the most underrated coach around at present and I think that he was given slightly more of a rough ride by Irish fans than his record would indicate he deserved.

I agree 100%, I think he was a fantastic coach for Ireland. He built of the foundations that Gatland laid and helped turn Ireland into a world class side and one of the fittest and most professional sides in World rugby.

He was clearly a poor man manager at times for sure and stubbornly refused to utilise his bench but his vision and forward thinking helped produce the best Irish side we've ever seen.

He was the first coach to introduce a sport psychologist into Irish rugby, whilst at Connacht, and his role in the implentation of the preseason conditioning programes and player welfare systems helped us compete physically with the SH teams for the first time.

It seems to be lost on most Irish fans that many of Irelands best wins and performances came under EOS. We have never in my opinion hit the heights we did against Australia 2003, 2006, England 2007, SA 2006 or NZ 2005.

Like Woodward with the 2005 Lions, EOS reputation seems to be forever tarnished by the 2007 RWC disaster but his record up until then speaks for itself and he was extremely unlucky not to have guided Ireland to at least 2 Grand slams as well as a first win over the ABs, all with far inferior player resources than we have now.

It's all relative.

If it's a choice between EoS and the likes of Johnson or his ilk, then, yes, EoS wouldn't be the worst choice.

BoyneRFC wrote:It's all relative.

If it's a choice between EoS and the likes of Johnson Declan Kidney or his ilk, then, yes, EoS wouldn't be the worst choice.

Fixed it for you Boyne .......

EOS will do well at Sale.

As an FYI he was never considered for the Ulster job inspite of what the papers say

Pre 07 WC, Irish Posters on the old ScrumV board were calling for his head.

He let the Irish team go stale, constantly picking the same players. He was a top quality back coach though, he'd be a massive asset to any team in that role.

LondonTiger wrote:Pre 07 WC, Irish Posters on the old ScrumV board were calling for his head.

Absolutely right too, the 2007 RWC was a disaster and he'd outstayed his welcome by then but that shouldn't detract from the unprecedented success he had between 2002 and 2007.

Same applies to Kidney now. He did a great job building moral and team spirit in 2009 but post 2010 he's been found wanting tactically again and again and its time to step aside. That's no reflection on his role in winning the GS and the good things hes done.

I think EOS would be a better option than Redpath for any side.

I really like Eddie. However he made himself a lot of enemies and as Mickado says constantly picked the exact same team. I personally think he was a lot more conservative in selection to Declan Kidney though was tactically miles ahead of him.

I think he may have burnt too many bridges in Ireland but I think he would be a good fit for a team like Ospreys, Gloucester or Bath.

I think he'd be better in hands off director of rugby type role. He seemed to be a visionary in terms of training and performance, a bit like Woodward but I don't think his man management skills are good enough to work with players day to day.

Am I right in thinking that it's only Celtic fans think he'd be suitable for Ospreys, Edinburgh or Sale?

Any English fans in support of him getting a tenure in the Premiership?

Surprised that as an ex munster player he wasnt shortlisted for the vacant munster job. I mean surely he is more qualified than Rod Penny and Tana Umaga?

He is a very organised coach that takes a very structured approach to on field play. Everything Ireland did on the field under him was preplanned and there was little room or tolerance for players straying from the game plan or expressing themselves beyone their agreed role.

DOC in his autobiography recalled a time he picked from a ruck to go on a solo run (I think) and he lost the ball. He always left the ball for the scrum half or other designated ball carriers after the rollicking he got from Eddie.

Much of the criticism EOS got post '07 WC disaster was centered around his inability to delegate responsibility to and trust the coaching team around him. Essentially he wanted to manage and influence all aspects of Ireland's play. He also had a reputation of being possibly a little unaproachable. Despite that I do think that he was fairly well respected and still is amongst the players and would be perfect for a team like the Cardiff Blues or Bath that would benefit from a kick up the hole and a very methodical organised and statistical approach to the game.

leinsterbaby wrote:Surprised that as an ex munster player he wasnt shortlisted for the vacant munster job. I mean surely he is more qualified than Rod Penny and Tana Umaga?

He is a very organised coach that takes a very structured approach to on field play. Everything Ireland did on the field under him was preplanned and there was little room or tolerance for players straying from the game plan or expressing themselves beyone their agreed role.

DOC in his autobiography recalled a time he picked from a ruck to go on a solo run (I think) and he lost the ball. He always left the ball for the scrum half or other designated ball carriers after the rollicking he got from Eddie.

Much of the criticism EOS got post '07 WC disaster was centered around his inability to delegate responsibility to and trust the coaching team around him. Essentially he wanted to manage and influence all aspects of Ireland's play. He also had a reputation of being possibly a little unaproachable. Despite that I do think that he was fairly well respected and still is amongst the players and would be perfect for a team like the Cardiff Blues or Bath that would benefit from a kick up the hole and a very methodical organised and statistical approach to the game.

I would say this is the reason that he has not been shortlisted for Munster.

All the great club teams have a good coaching team rather than one fella pulling the strings from afar.

Leinster have Gibbes and Schmidt
Wasps had Gatland and Edwards
Munster had Kidney and Williams
Toulouse had Bru, Elissalde and Noves
Clermont had Cotter and Schmidt

It looks like Anthony Foley will call the shots at munster possibly with Umaga backs coach?

What about Guy Noves at Toulouse? Probably the most successful NH club manager of all time. Does he have a sidekick?

He was tactically very good. And was a very good attack coach. Like others said his selections were extremely conservative, but Ireland didn't have huge depth back then. And maybe he's learned his lesson.

If that ball had bounced differently in Croke Park against France in 2007, and he won the Grand Slam with Ireland, his reputation would be much better.

leinsterbaby wrote:What about Guy Noves at Toulouse? Probably the most successful NH club manager of all time. Does he have a sidekick?

Yannick Bru, but soon to be replaced by William Servat, I think

As a backs coach probably yes. As a head coach - not a chance. The book title "How to loose Friends and alienate people" springs to mind. I have met a few ex players who played under him and they had very little respect for him as a person - not good for a head coach!! In saying that his ability as a backs coach is good and he would be great addition to any team if he just focused on that.

Red Right wrote:As a backs coach probably yes. As a head coach - not a chance. The book title "How to loose Friends and alienate people" springs to mind. I have met a few ex players who played under him and they had very little respect for him as a person - not good for a head coach!! In saying that his ability as a backs coach is good and he would be great addition to any team if he just focused on that.

I suppose hes a marmite sort of coach. I spoke to someone recently who played under him and said he was a great coach and the biggest influence on their own coaching career.. that he could really think out of the box and was a real innovator.

I recall the time he said he didn't pick Geordan Murphy against France because he didn't like playing against the French. That is just poor stuff from a coach. He definitely had his faults alright. Made some strange comments about Bowe a few seasons ago too and why he didn't pick him for the 2007 RWC.

He gets good results though. Thing I didn't like about him is he never took any responsibility for bad results and instead let the players take the blame. I'll never forget an interview Setanta did with Felipe C during their coverage of the 07' WC. He knew a lot of the players and very coherently and eloquently argued with the presenter Daire OBrien that there comes a point when a manager should accept some blame for poor results and not continue to let his players take the heat for poor performances. Then bizarrely in one of the strangest moments in rugby punditry I have seen OBrein (a corkman) cut the interview short and angrily apologised to viewers for Contepomis views which I presume he felt were slanderous or something. Strange because Contepomi was completely correct.

roddersm wrote:

Red Right wrote:As a backs coach probably yes. As a head coach - not a chance. The book title "How to loose Friends and alienate people" springs to mind. I have met a few ex players who played under him and they had very little respect for him as a person - not good for a head coach!! In saying that his ability as a backs coach is good and he would be great addition to any team if he just focused on that.

I suppose hes a marmite sort of coach. I spoke to someone recently who played under him and said he was a great coach and the biggest influence on their own coaching career.. that he could really think out of the box and was a real innovator.

I recall the time he said he didn't pick Geordan Murphy against France because he didn't like playing against the French. That is just poor stuff from a coach. He definitely had his faults alright. Made some strange comments about Bowe a few seasons ago too and why he didn't pick him for the 2007 RWC.

The guys I spoke with had no questions about his coaching ability and all seemed to say that he was a fantastic technical coach - just that he had no personal touch. Any of the guys who were on the fringes were rarely acknowledged.
One of the guys I spoke with was one of the bolters on the 07 squad, he said EOS never spoke with any of the fringe players and many would not even be included in squad meetings. The whole thing seemed to get quite depressing for them even before the poor performances.

I think he is perfect for a mid table side you will be comdeitve and be there at the busness end but may not winakin to Ulster and Os not to bad really

Red that would sit with the image I have of him. Great coach, terrible man manager.

We're all basically saying the same thing. He's actually technically a very talented coach, particularly with attacking play. But he was a control freak and a poor man manager.

But his win rate with Ireland was very high in the 6 Nations. In fact it's amazing he never won it with 4 wins from 5 many times. He also beat both South Africa and Australia. The 2006 Autumn Internationals were some of Ireland's best ever displays. He also got closer to beating New Zealand than any other Ireland coach. Had them on the canvass once with 5 minutes to go. He also achieved his goals with the USA in the RWC. Beat Russia and denied Ireland a bonus point.

I think he'd be worth a shot for and English club. At a club, surely he'd have no choice but to form relationships with the entire squad, not just the first 15. Anyway, I think that his conservatism with selection is something he's half acknowledged in interviews since 2008.

being International manger it is easy to forget about people or invest time in someone and then have to crush their dreams when you tell them they aren't good enough.

What was he like with other clubs. Maybe they should get his wife to deal with the players and let him be the mad man in the box pulling strings

Brendan wrote:being International manger it is easy to forget about people or invest time in someone and then have to crush their dreams when you tell them they aren't good enough.

What was he like with other clubs. Maybe they should get his wife to deal with the players and let him be the mad man in the box pulling strings

hmm wasn't that the problem in 2007?.......

who is a useless coach but great with people I would say Nial Quinn but not sure he would go for Rugby

Brendan wrote:I think he is perfect for a mid table side you will be comdeitve and be there at the busness end but may not winakin to Ulster and Os not to bad really

Are you using an iPhone? You're a hard man to follow sometimes. Don't mean to be harsh.

Brendan wrote:who is a useless coach but great with people I would say Nial Quinn but not sure he would go for Rugby

Declan kidney at the moment

What do you mean if its my english or spelling sometimes it is just I am poor at speaking when my mind is going and i shot in posts between work

Should probably do word

Declan though has the poor using those outside of the 22

Brendan wrote:What do you mean if its my english or spelling sometimes it is just I am poor at speaking when my mind is going and i shot in posts between work

Should probably do word

Brendan - there's a simple way to find out if what you're writing makes sense for others to read. Read out loud to yourself what you've written and see if it is coherent for others to understand. I often do this to see if something makes sense.

Writing in the spoken word is different to writing for the printed page, or screen/internet/text, etc. There's no point in firing or shooting off posts "between work" if people aren't going to understand them. Shoot less - hit the target more.

...bit condescending pot.

He has got to be better than Andy 'Mr Bean' Robinson !

I was a big critic of EOS and haven't any reason to change my mind.

He had one plan - basically pick the same XV every game and they would know each others games so well they were bound to succeed. In order to pick the same XV he became very innovative with medical care and enforced rests away from the Test side. He was the first to go to the freezer in Spaala so he could get his untouchables even more fit and spend even more time together on the pitch.
That was all well and good but it wasn't surprising that Ireland never won a GS, simply because that strategy doesn't work. In a series of tournament games, sooner or later a player will get injured and he would have no plan B so he would have to draft in someone who had hardly played in the team and then blame them when they lost. He built zero depth for the future despite having plenty of the same players who are considered Test class today.

He lived completely in the present with no vision for the future as could be seen by his bringing Reggie Corrigan out of retirement when Horan got injured rather than "risk" Simon Best - his supposed bench back up. Even if a fill-in player was fantastic they still would get dropped as soon as the untouchable regained fitness, so there was no motivation or competition for places.

Singling out and slating Bowe after the 2006 debacle in France was unforgivable treatment of a young player, but obviously he had to excuse his untouchables, some of whom were far worse that day. Not taking Bowe to the RWC was the clinching factor for Tommy's move away, especially as the IRFU felt compelled to give EOS a vote of confidence with a new long term deal, and EOS had preferred the dubious merits of Brian Carney.
Despite being one of "the players of the year", Jamie Heaslip was also left behind. EOS did take Ferris but didn't play him. He preferred to let his untouchables 'sleepwalk' through the early games because they had to preserve themselves for the later ones - and everyone knows the result.

EOS is a methodical perfectionist, who will find all his tactics in a computer spreadsheet rather than from inside his head. Some teams might thrive on that, just don't expect any creativity or anyone who gets on the wrong side of him to get a second chance.

leinsterbaby wrote:...bit condescending pot.

That's so true, baby.

I could have gone a lot further, but I restrained myself.

Oh put him out of his misery and someone give him a job please - will get him off Ulster TV

ref The Great Aukster - absolutely spot on particularly about Bowe

I would add / reinforce (having seen him speak)

Yes - the small Irish squad was based on the premise that Irish players never got injured unlike all those over-played English ones (ha ha ha)

thus Ireland's disarray every time someone crucial is injured (Ross, POC, BOD didn't we have no full-backs one year - etc) and this culture of the Untouchables means that perfectly good and potentially international players such as Coughlan, Wilson, Cave, Hayes, etc etc get under-developed (you could possibly attribute DOB's lack of form to his Irish treatment though that might be a conflict of coaching)

while the chosen few get over-hyped - Fitzgerald, Earls (not that bad just over-rated and there are other perfectly good centres around), Leamy!!!!!

and -------

his exact words prior to the WC - we will get the best 15 footballers onto the pitch --- - -- just a pity everyone else was playing rugby ...........

finally, he did walk around with a few chips on his shoulder and gave the impression that as long as Ireland beat England an Irish coach would always keep his job - and that a Triple Crown was pretty good - all of this in comaparison to the way Irish rugby was run in the past

In the 07 WC ROG played worse and worse as each match went by. He was abysmal yet Eos refused to drop him. There was no plan B.

To be fair Eos's only other choices were Paddy Wallace and Jeremy Staunton

I would have started Wallace. He definitely would have played better.

I find it easier psychologically, to just pretend there's no such thing as Rugby World Cups.

To be fair Eos's only other choices were Paddy Wallace and Jeremy Staunton

Geordan Murphy would have done a better job. Better than him sitting in the stands watching an Irish backline devoid of imagination lifelessly list through each game.

I rate EOS as on a par with Andy Robinson as semi competent but dislike him quite a bit for his wasting of Murphy's considerable talents even more so for having him either sat on the bench or in the stands in 2007 where if he was going to be ignored he could have been left back in Leicester where we appreciate him. Annoyingly Murphy was to proud an Irishman to ever tell EOS to stick his selection policy.

formerly known as Sam - you are looking at the situation through decidedly tiger colored glasses there!

GM was a decent servant to Irish rugby, no more. He had some absolute howlers in the green jersey and 2007 wasn't that long after the notorious game in Paris v France where he was directly responsible for us conceding 4 tries.

The reason why ROG was so bad was he had no competition for the jersey.

I personally cannot see him starting another Irish test match and may pick up 2 or 3 more caps. No more.

formerly known as Sam - you are looking at the situation through decidedly tiger colored glasses there!

Well it also stems from how EOS used Murphy, for years Geordan has been integral to Tigers backline play because he is both a strike runner and secondary play maker but under EOS the Irish backline was so restrictive in it's style that Tigers fans often thought Murphy was wasted on EOS. I can even remember an irrate friend of the family pointing out that England could have nabbed him under residency if his Irish international call up had come a bit later. There is certainly some bias though as Geordan is a legend in Leicester to the same extent if not more so than BOD is in Leinster because it's rare for a Tigers back to get that status.

Dempsey was a pretty damn good fullback Sam. Eos tried Murphy on the wing but that didn't really work, probably should have used him off the bench a bit more though.