Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
+3
88Chris05
Rowley
Mind the windows Tino.
7 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Boxing
Page 1 of 1
Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Well, where to start with Barney Ross? His name rings down the annuls of boxing history and I approached this thread with trepidation, safe in the knowledge that whatever I write would not come close to doing justice to this incredible man. He is probably the second greatest Jewish fighter of all time after the incomparable Benny Leonard and it is not hard to make a case for Ross being an all time top 10 guy in the Lightweight, Light Welterweight and Welterweight divisions. Not only that, but Ross holds the distinction of being the first person in history to hold three lineal World titles simultaneously. But, as is the nature of this series, I wanted to show another side to these guys, not just focussing on their achievements in a ring , but highlighting how great these men were outside the sport. His ring exploits are just stunning, but some of his actions outside the squared circle, somewhat remarkably, can be considered even greater.
Barney Ross was born Dov-Ber Rasofsky in New York city in 1909 before moving to Chicago where his family lived in the vibrant Jewish quarter. In an early sign of the dramatic life that Ross was to lead, his father was shot dead at the grocery store he owned when trying to resist a robbery. This terrible event triggered a nervous breakdown in Ross's mother, and subsequently led to the families younger children being sent to relatives or orphanages. Ross, himself only 13 years old was pretty much left to fend for himself and took to the streets where he quickly did what he had to do to survive. Ross started to hang with the local street toughs, including guys like Jack Ruby who later found infamy by shooting dead Lee Harvey Oswald, the accused assassin of JFK. Ross also went to work for the infamous Al Capone, who, if legend is to be believed, refused to turn Ross into a 'made' man, citing Barney being the son of a rabbi as the reason, and told his young hood to leave the streets behind.
It is roughly at this point that Ross turned to boxing, and also when he began to fight under the name 'Barney Ross', primarily because his mother disapproved of the sport and he was still plagued by the death of his father and didn't want to sully the family name. Ross took to the sport instantly, originally fighting so he could make some money by selling the trophies he won in amateur bouts. Possessed of great natural speed, an innate boxing brain, tremendous stamina and a heart that was the equal of any, Ross soon became a Golden Gloves Champion before turning professional in 1929.
He picked up a couple of losses on the way up against much more experienced guys but eventually, in 1933, he was matched with fellow all time great, Tony Canzoneri, in his adopted hometown of Chicago, for the Lightweight and Jr Welterweight World title. Ross out-pointed Canzoneri in a hard fight, and now the kid from the tough streets of Chicago was on top of the world. Ross and Canzoneri rematched three months later, this time in Canzoneri's home town at the Polo Grounds, New York city. A huge crowd that included politicians, mobsters and stars of stage and screen, all witnessed a tough and brutal bout in which Ross, displaying huge reserves of willpower, edged over 15 rounds.
Ross made some relatively routine defences of his titles before meeting perhaps his biggest nemesis, the great Jimmy McLarnin at Madison Square Garden for the Welterweight championship of the World. Ross won a terrific battle over 15 rounds, achieving the distinction of holding 3 lineal titles at the same time. Ross gave the gallant McLarnin a rematch just months later, with McLarnin this time taking a controversial victory with a split decision over 15 rounds. They met for the third and final time, exactly one year after their first battle, with Ross finally laying claim to the series with a unanimous 15 round decision. Ross carried on fighting until he met the fabulous Henry Armstrong in 1938. Homicide Hank relived Ross of his Welterweight title in what turned out to the Barney's final bout. He grimly hung on over the last few rounds, taking some serious punishment but remained determined to hold on to his record of never having been knocked out.
Barney Ross the boxer was clearly a phenomenal talent, coming out of a five fight series with Canzoneri and McLarnin with a 4-1 record, as well as beating people like Ceferino Garcia three times, Billy Petrolle twice and Battling Battalino along with a host of other top fighters. But what of Ross the man? Well, for me, his deeds outside the ring are equally as impressive as his battles inside it.
After the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbour in 1941, Ross, showing the courage that was evident throughout his boxing career, signed up for the US Marine corps despite being slightly older than the draft age. It was no Dempsey or Louis type ceremonial role for Barney though, rather he was sent, at his request, into a combat role. He eventually ended up fighting on Guadalcanal in one of the most legendary and brutal battles of the US armies 'Island Hopping' campaign in the Pacific. The conditions on Guadalcanal were truly horrific and the fighting was some of the most intense seen in the entirety of WWII. One night, Ross and three fellow Marines came under attack from Japanese troops and were forced into a shell hole. The other Marines were badly injured and Ross protected them throughout the night, firing off over 200 rounds and throwing 22 grenades at the attacking Japanese soldiers. Ross held them off for around 13 hours, killing, depending on what you read, around 20 enemy fighters. Two of his comrades died during the night but Ross, also injured by shrapnel himself, carried the other surviving Marine back to safety. Truly incredible stuff, and actions for which Ross received the Silver Star, Purple Heart and a Presidential Citation.
Ross struggled after the war, having become addicted to morphine after receiving it in hospital to treat his injuries and a bad case of malaria. At the height of his addiction, he was said to have been spending $500 a day on the drug, falling into a terrible spiral of stealing morphine from hospitals to feed his habit, a habit that cost him his savings. But, Ross being the man he was, eventually beat his addictions and used the experience in a positive fashion, touring US schools and lecturing on the dangers of drugs. He eventually died in 1967 after a long fight with cancer. Probably the only fight he couldn't win.
In the interest of balance, it is probably worth pointing out that despite his considerable achievements in and out of the ring, Ross had his faults like any man. He was a chronic gambler, blowing huge purses and perpetually owing money to bookies, loan sharks and mobsters and also it doesn't take a big leap of faith to assume that people would have been hurt during his time racketeering for Al Capone. He also played a significant part in a gun running business, trying to smuggle arms into Israel, using donations from his underworld connections to fund the buying of weapons whilst maintaining a 'legitimate' public stance of lobbying for the emerging Israeli state. Again, it doesn't take a huge leap of faith to recognise that innocent people would have been hurt and killed as a consequence of these actions, directly or indirectly.
As I alluded to at the beginning of this thread, it is hard to sum up in words, especially with as blunt a tool as my writing, just how immense a figure Barney Ross is. His record is stunning and surely puts him as a top 20 pound for pound great, but as with guys like Young Perez and Max Schmeling, there are so many more facets to their characters. Courage in a boxing ring is one thing, but for it transcend into a wider social context the way it clearly does with Barney Ross is pretty rare. The word 'legend' is bandied around far too much in the boxing world, but if ever it was applicable, it surely is with Barney Ross.
Barney Ross was born Dov-Ber Rasofsky in New York city in 1909 before moving to Chicago where his family lived in the vibrant Jewish quarter. In an early sign of the dramatic life that Ross was to lead, his father was shot dead at the grocery store he owned when trying to resist a robbery. This terrible event triggered a nervous breakdown in Ross's mother, and subsequently led to the families younger children being sent to relatives or orphanages. Ross, himself only 13 years old was pretty much left to fend for himself and took to the streets where he quickly did what he had to do to survive. Ross started to hang with the local street toughs, including guys like Jack Ruby who later found infamy by shooting dead Lee Harvey Oswald, the accused assassin of JFK. Ross also went to work for the infamous Al Capone, who, if legend is to be believed, refused to turn Ross into a 'made' man, citing Barney being the son of a rabbi as the reason, and told his young hood to leave the streets behind.
It is roughly at this point that Ross turned to boxing, and also when he began to fight under the name 'Barney Ross', primarily because his mother disapproved of the sport and he was still plagued by the death of his father and didn't want to sully the family name. Ross took to the sport instantly, originally fighting so he could make some money by selling the trophies he won in amateur bouts. Possessed of great natural speed, an innate boxing brain, tremendous stamina and a heart that was the equal of any, Ross soon became a Golden Gloves Champion before turning professional in 1929.
He picked up a couple of losses on the way up against much more experienced guys but eventually, in 1933, he was matched with fellow all time great, Tony Canzoneri, in his adopted hometown of Chicago, for the Lightweight and Jr Welterweight World title. Ross out-pointed Canzoneri in a hard fight, and now the kid from the tough streets of Chicago was on top of the world. Ross and Canzoneri rematched three months later, this time in Canzoneri's home town at the Polo Grounds, New York city. A huge crowd that included politicians, mobsters and stars of stage and screen, all witnessed a tough and brutal bout in which Ross, displaying huge reserves of willpower, edged over 15 rounds.
Ross made some relatively routine defences of his titles before meeting perhaps his biggest nemesis, the great Jimmy McLarnin at Madison Square Garden for the Welterweight championship of the World. Ross won a terrific battle over 15 rounds, achieving the distinction of holding 3 lineal titles at the same time. Ross gave the gallant McLarnin a rematch just months later, with McLarnin this time taking a controversial victory with a split decision over 15 rounds. They met for the third and final time, exactly one year after their first battle, with Ross finally laying claim to the series with a unanimous 15 round decision. Ross carried on fighting until he met the fabulous Henry Armstrong in 1938. Homicide Hank relived Ross of his Welterweight title in what turned out to the Barney's final bout. He grimly hung on over the last few rounds, taking some serious punishment but remained determined to hold on to his record of never having been knocked out.
Barney Ross the boxer was clearly a phenomenal talent, coming out of a five fight series with Canzoneri and McLarnin with a 4-1 record, as well as beating people like Ceferino Garcia three times, Billy Petrolle twice and Battling Battalino along with a host of other top fighters. But what of Ross the man? Well, for me, his deeds outside the ring are equally as impressive as his battles inside it.
After the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbour in 1941, Ross, showing the courage that was evident throughout his boxing career, signed up for the US Marine corps despite being slightly older than the draft age. It was no Dempsey or Louis type ceremonial role for Barney though, rather he was sent, at his request, into a combat role. He eventually ended up fighting on Guadalcanal in one of the most legendary and brutal battles of the US armies 'Island Hopping' campaign in the Pacific. The conditions on Guadalcanal were truly horrific and the fighting was some of the most intense seen in the entirety of WWII. One night, Ross and three fellow Marines came under attack from Japanese troops and were forced into a shell hole. The other Marines were badly injured and Ross protected them throughout the night, firing off over 200 rounds and throwing 22 grenades at the attacking Japanese soldiers. Ross held them off for around 13 hours, killing, depending on what you read, around 20 enemy fighters. Two of his comrades died during the night but Ross, also injured by shrapnel himself, carried the other surviving Marine back to safety. Truly incredible stuff, and actions for which Ross received the Silver Star, Purple Heart and a Presidential Citation.
Ross struggled after the war, having become addicted to morphine after receiving it in hospital to treat his injuries and a bad case of malaria. At the height of his addiction, he was said to have been spending $500 a day on the drug, falling into a terrible spiral of stealing morphine from hospitals to feed his habit, a habit that cost him his savings. But, Ross being the man he was, eventually beat his addictions and used the experience in a positive fashion, touring US schools and lecturing on the dangers of drugs. He eventually died in 1967 after a long fight with cancer. Probably the only fight he couldn't win.
In the interest of balance, it is probably worth pointing out that despite his considerable achievements in and out of the ring, Ross had his faults like any man. He was a chronic gambler, blowing huge purses and perpetually owing money to bookies, loan sharks and mobsters and also it doesn't take a big leap of faith to assume that people would have been hurt during his time racketeering for Al Capone. He also played a significant part in a gun running business, trying to smuggle arms into Israel, using donations from his underworld connections to fund the buying of weapons whilst maintaining a 'legitimate' public stance of lobbying for the emerging Israeli state. Again, it doesn't take a huge leap of faith to recognise that innocent people would have been hurt and killed as a consequence of these actions, directly or indirectly.
As I alluded to at the beginning of this thread, it is hard to sum up in words, especially with as blunt a tool as my writing, just how immense a figure Barney Ross is. His record is stunning and surely puts him as a top 20 pound for pound great, but as with guys like Young Perez and Max Schmeling, there are so many more facets to their characters. Courage in a boxing ring is one thing, but for it transcend into a wider social context the way it clearly does with Barney Ross is pretty rare. The word 'legend' is bandied around far too much in the boxing world, but if ever it was applicable, it surely is with Barney Ross.
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
- Posts : 21145
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Another crackign piece Tina and on a subject that is definitely worthy IMO, you could fill ten threads on Ross' in the ring acheivements which for me mark him out as a top 20 all timer as you have already said but outside the ring his life is no less remarkable. His record in the war is staggering, obviously he is not alone in that respect but as you have already alluded to the fact he never sought to duck what he saw as his duty or use his status or fame to secure himself an easier berth through the Army speaks volumes of the man. In fact he did quite the opposite throwing himself into the combat on Guadalcanal, known for some of the fiercest fighting and toughest conditions of the whole war.
Again Tina, another cracker in the series, you have raised the bar yet again, suspect I may have to give my next Colour Line greats inductee some serious effort and attention.
Again Tina, another cracker in the series, you have raised the bar yet again, suspect I may have to give my next Colour Line greats inductee some serious effort and attention.
Rowley- Admin
- Posts : 22053
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 51
Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Lovely stuff, Tino. Ross is one of my all-time favourites, not just for his ring exploits but for a host of other reasons, most of which you've touched on in the article.
I was always under the impression that his birth name was Beryl Rosofsky, mind you - I'll jump to the assumption that I must have got it wrong, as I'm not going to argue against the excellent research you've obviously carried out in writing this! Not much else to add from me as you've done the great man proud already.
Inside the top fifteen, pound for pound, of all time in my opinion. And what a life he lived, too.
I was always under the impression that his birth name was Beryl Rosofsky, mind you - I'll jump to the assumption that I must have got it wrong, as I'm not going to argue against the excellent research you've obviously carried out in writing this! Not much else to add from me as you've done the great man proud already.
Inside the top fifteen, pound for pound, of all time in my opinion. And what a life he lived, too.
88Chris05- Moderator
- Posts : 9661
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 36
Location : Nottingham
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
88Chris05 wrote:Lovely stuff, Tino. Ross is one of my all-time favourites, not just for his ring exploits but for a host of other reasons, most of which you've touched on in the article.
I was always under the impression that his birth name was Beryl Rosofsky, mind you - I'll jump to the assumption that I must have got it wrong, as I'm not going to argue against the excellent research you've obviously carried out in writing this! Not much else to add from me as you've done the great man proud already.
Inside the top fifteen, pound for pound, of all time in my opinion. And what a life he lived, too.
Thanks guys, I really enjoyed looking a bit further into his life. Amazing character.
You're quite right Chris, there is plenty of research that quotes his name as Beryl as well as Dov-Ber. Excuse my ignorance, but I am guessing it is just some kind of Hebrew translation or something. Either seem acceptable, I just picked one of them at the time I started writing.
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
- Posts : 21145
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Have got a biography of Ross at home, which is part of a Jewish books series and is written very much from that perspective, seem to remember the name thing is covered in there so will have a look when I get home.
Rowley- Admin
- Posts : 22053
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 51
Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
rowley wrote:Have got a biography of Ross at home, which is part of a Jewish books series and is written very much from that perspective, seem to remember the name thing is covered in there so will have a look when I get home.
Good man. I would be interested to see if they can give a definitive answer on it.
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
- Posts : 21145
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Another insightful article, nice one. Have read about him as a fighter but didn't know much about his life outside the ring.
If I could play devil's advocate, do his faults listed above not seem a bit worse than your average mans and take away from his heroics? While not ideal traits for a hero I'm not too bothered about drug or gambling addictions as they're his own business. But anything that causes death or injury to innocent persons (Mob side and gun running) would take away from his greater exploits for me.
If I could play devil's advocate, do his faults listed above not seem a bit worse than your average mans and take away from his heroics? While not ideal traits for a hero I'm not too bothered about drug or gambling addictions as they're his own business. But anything that causes death or injury to innocent persons (Mob side and gun running) would take away from his greater exploits for me.
paperbag_puncher- Posts : 2516
Join date : 2011-02-25
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
The thirties really were a phenomenal era for the Lightweights / Welterweights in terms of sheer depth; Ross, Canzoneri, Arizmendi, Armstrong, McLarnin, Ambers and a host of other serious operators. Says a lot about Ross that he managed to distinguish himself from even this most esteemed company.
Obviously, Armstrong belongs out on his own amongst that group, but Ross simply has to be second. His consistency was remarkable; remember, these men were all meeting with great frequency, and yet Ross dropped just four decisions across a career which, if my memory serves me, spanned over eighty fights. The likes of Ambers and Canzoneri were, of course, incredible fighters, but neither can match Barney in that department.
True, the Armstrong defeat was a heavy one, but it's not as if Ross should really be deducted too many points for that - after all, the 1938 version of Armstrong was quite possibly the most irresistable and unstoppable force in the history of boxing.
Obviously, Armstrong belongs out on his own amongst that group, but Ross simply has to be second. His consistency was remarkable; remember, these men were all meeting with great frequency, and yet Ross dropped just four decisions across a career which, if my memory serves me, spanned over eighty fights. The likes of Ambers and Canzoneri were, of course, incredible fighters, but neither can match Barney in that department.
True, the Armstrong defeat was a heavy one, but it's not as if Ross should really be deducted too many points for that - after all, the 1938 version of Armstrong was quite possibly the most irresistable and unstoppable force in the history of boxing.
88Chris05- Moderator
- Posts : 9661
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 36
Location : Nottingham
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
I struggle to split Ross and McLarnin Chris, appreciate their series was in Ross' favour but everything I have read suggests they were all cigarette paper close affairs and there is some merit to the argument Jimmy was on the downslide whilst Ross was on the way up when they happened. Think with Canzoneri, Corbett, Fuller, Petrolle, Mandell and Ambers on his ledger, particularly as most of these were faced back to back there really is an argument for putting Jimmy on a par with Ross, although Ross' ledger does contain most of the highlights of Jimmy's but with the added bonus of the likes of Garcia and Jannazzo. Genuinely too tough to split em.
Guess the main reasons I could find for putting Ross above Jimmy is McLarnin did have a tendency to dump decisions to guys he really had no business losing to such as Johnny Farr and also did like a catchweight fight, but really is difficult to find much daylight between them.
Guess the main reasons I could find for putting Ross above Jimmy is McLarnin did have a tendency to dump decisions to guys he really had no business losing to such as Johnny Farr and also did like a catchweight fight, but really is difficult to find much daylight between them.
Rowley- Admin
- Posts : 22053
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 51
Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
paperbag_puncher wrote:Another insightful article, nice one. Have read about him as a fighter but didn't know much about his life outside the ring.
If I could play devil's advocate, do his faults listed above not seem a bit worse than your average mans and take away from his heroics? While not ideal traits for a hero I'm not too bothered about drug or gambling addictions as they're his own business. But anything that causes death or injury to innocent persons (Mob side and gun running) would take away from his greater exploits for me.
I understand your points, PP, but I guess there has to be consideration of the situation he was in, particularly as a young man. Losing your father, effectively losing your siblings and having to fend yourself in a tough city would be enough to test the moral fibre of a emotionally developed adult, let alone a teenager. He did what he had to do and I don't think it should detract too much. The gun running is clearly more contentious, and there is little doubt it would have resulted in innocent deaths, but again I would just attempt to contextualise it in that he was a proud Jew and prbably felt his people were owed something, especially after the persecution they had suffered over the previous generations. I am not a religious man myself, but I can understand how it motivates people to do things without thinking of consequences to others. It is not ideal, but I would guess Ross was trying to 'help', although it doesn't really fit with with a 21st century, sanitised hindsight.
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
- Posts : 21145
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
rowley wrote:I struggle to split Ross and McLarnin Chris, appreciate their series was in Ross' favour but everything I have read suggests they were all cigarette paper close affairs and there is some merit to the argument Jimmy was on the downslide whilst Ross was on the way up when they happened. Think with Canzoneri, Corbett, Fuller, Petrolle, Mandell and Ambers on his ledger, particularly as most of these were faced back to back there really is an argument for putting Jimmy on a par with Ross, although Ross' ledger does contain most of the highlights of Jimmy's but with the added bonus of the likes of Garcia and Jannazzo. Genuinely too tough to split em.
Guess the main reasons I could find for putting Ross above Jimmy is McLarnin did have a tendency to dump decisions to guys he really had no business losing to such as Johnny Farr and also did like a catchweight fight, but really is difficult to find much daylight between them.
Ross wasn't a thunderous puncher either, which has to be considered. Brittle hands and relatively weedy arms put paid to that. Imagine how good he could have been if he was blessed with a top 20 pound for pound punch as well.
There are some reports that Armstrong asked Ross how he was feeling towards the end of the fight. Ross replyed along the line of "I'm finished", so Henry told him that if he kept throwing the left, he would see the end of the fight but if he started shooting his right hand, then Henry would knock him out! Not sure how much truth is in it, but says alot about the respect Armstrong must have had for Ross.
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
- Posts : 21145
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:paperbag_puncher wrote:Another insightful article, nice one. Have read about him as a fighter but didn't know much about his life outside the ring.
If I could play devil's advocate, do his faults listed above not seem a bit worse than your average mans and take away from his heroics? While not ideal traits for a hero I'm not too bothered about drug or gambling addictions as they're his own business. But anything that causes death or injury to innocent persons (Mob side and gun running) would take away from his greater exploits for me.
I understand your points, PP, but I guess there has to be consideration of the situation he was in, particularly as a young man. Losing your father, effectively losing your siblings and having to fend yourself in a tough city would be enough to test the moral fibre of a emotionally developed adult, let alone a teenager. He did what he had to do and I don't think it should detract too much. The gun running is clearly more contentious, and there is little doubt it would have resulted in innocent deaths, but again I would just attempt to contextualise it in that he was a proud Jew and prbably felt his people were owed something, especially after the persecution they had suffered over the previous generations. I am not a religious man myself, but I can understand how it motivates people to do things without thinking of consequences to others. It is not ideal, but I would guess Ross was trying to 'help', although it doesn't really fit with with a 21st century, sanitised hindsight.
Fair enough Tina. I won't push it too far. These things can sprout wings pretty quickly and I don't want to turn your article into an Israeli/Palestine conflict minefield.
Although it might gather a few more comments and could help you win the ratings war with Rowley....
paperbag_puncher- Posts : 2516
Join date : 2011-02-25
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
paperbag_puncher wrote:
Fair enough Tina. I won't push it too far. These things can sprout wings pretty quickly and I don't want to turn your article into an Israeli/Palestine conflict minefield.
Although it might gather a few more comments and could help you win the ratings war with Rowley....
Believe me, PP, the last thing I anticipated was a Israel/Palestine debate, lord knows who that would attract out of the woodwork! It is an interesting aspect to his life though and I didn't think it should be ignored completely.
It's not a war, just some friendly inspiration!
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
- Posts : 21145
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
paperbag_puncher wrote:
Although it might gather a few more comments and could help you win the ratings war with Rowley....
It really is no great feat, just wait until the next colour line great thread arrives, am mulling over three possible candidates, suspect the contrary side of my nature will lead me to pick the most obscure, it alienates 99% of the board and gives Tina a warm feeling inside when he wins the ratings war yet again, what more could I hope to acheive.
Rowley- Admin
- Posts : 22053
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 51
Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
You have to hate him to beat him Tina... He's trying to take food out of your family's mouths. Don't forget that.
Seriously though glad you put in the flaws. As I said I knew nothing about him outside of the ring so relying on the article to form my initial opinion of him.
Seriously though glad you put in the flaws. As I said I knew nothing about him outside of the ring so relying on the article to form my initial opinion of him.
paperbag_puncher- Posts : 2516
Join date : 2011-02-25
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
With regards to McLarnin, Rowley, I'd agree that he can't be all too far behind Ross - as you've touched on, the 2-1 scoreline Barney had over him could easily have been 1-1-1, and who knows, but for the odd eye-catching punch here or there, may have even been 2-1 to Jimmy. I just think that Ross' outstanding record in title fights and sheer consistency entitle him to a higher spot in the all-time sceme of things.
Not really pondered the ol' rankings for a while, but I imagine McLarnin would certainly be, at least, on the cusp of my top thirty, or more likely the top twenty-odd.
Not really pondered the ol' rankings for a while, but I imagine McLarnin would certainly be, at least, on the cusp of my top thirty, or more likely the top twenty-odd.
88Chris05- Moderator
- Posts : 9661
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 36
Location : Nottingham
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Think if I was to give it serious thought Chris would probably have to come to the same conclusion, was obviously through his own choice but McLarnin did not hold a title for particularly long and his losses to second tier guys which spot his record probably give the edge to Ross
Rowley- Admin
- Posts : 22053
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 51
Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Cracking read for a lunch time. Keep them coming if you're able
bhb001- Posts : 2675
Join date : 2011-02-16
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
I'll do my best, buddy. Got an idea for the next one but need to do some research.
One other thing I did read about, but subsequently left out, was a story that Ross, when he had recovered from his morphine addiction attempted to join a group of Israeli independence fighters but was refused for a variety of reasons, mainly his injuries that caused him constant pain, and the fact he was seen as more useful to the 'cause' by staying in the US and lobbying for the Israeli state. It is incredible that after all he had been through on Guadacanal, he still wanted to fight for his people in another warzone. That may go someway to answering PP's questions earlier about his dealing in arms trades. If you are that commited to your people, then I guess you would do pretty much anything to further their aims. Doesn't necessarily make it right, but gives some context to the depth of his feelings.
One other thing I did read about, but subsequently left out, was a story that Ross, when he had recovered from his morphine addiction attempted to join a group of Israeli independence fighters but was refused for a variety of reasons, mainly his injuries that caused him constant pain, and the fact he was seen as more useful to the 'cause' by staying in the US and lobbying for the Israeli state. It is incredible that after all he had been through on Guadacanal, he still wanted to fight for his people in another warzone. That may go someway to answering PP's questions earlier about his dealing in arms trades. If you are that commited to your people, then I guess you would do pretty much anything to further their aims. Doesn't necessarily make it right, but gives some context to the depth of his feelings.
Last edited by Mind the windows Tino. on Mon 23 Apr 2012, 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : My speeling is teribol.)
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
- Posts : 21145
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Not much in it between Ross, Canzoneri or Mclarnin but Ross' had the greater consistency of the three with Canzoneri possibly the lowest of three despite having the greater longevity, pros and cons for all three really.
Imperial Ghosty- Posts : 10156
Join date : 2011-02-15
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
As I am sure Tina and many others have been on tenterhooks I will leave you waiting no longer for the clarification on Ross' birth name, according to Douglas Century's biography of him he was christened (or probably not in all likelihood) Dov-Ber Rasofsky which is an Ashkenazic doubling of the Hebrew and Yiddish words for bear. However amongst family and friends he was known as either Beryl, Beryleh or Berchik which are affectionate Yiddish nicknames and variants of little bear.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Rowley- Admin
- Posts : 22053
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 51
Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Good work, Jeff. Thanks for taking the time to look it up.
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
- Posts : 21145
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
Not a problem Tina, to be honest a lot of it is pretty much as we expected as I am sure most of us already knew Dov Ber was an Ashkenazic doubling of the hebrew and yiddish for bear but is always nice to have these things confirmed
Rowley- Admin
- Posts : 22053
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 51
Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
I think you will find I hinted at it being some kind of hebrew translation when replying to Chris near the top of the thread. That is without looking in your book.
I surprise myself at how smart I really am sometimes.
I surprise myself at how smart I really am sometimes.
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
- Posts : 21145
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
I surprise myself at how smart I really am sometimes.
.. and doubtless those who have met you as well.
Nice article, tina.
superflyweight- Superfly
- Posts : 8643
Join date : 2011-01-26
Re: Real Boxing Heroes III: Barney Ross
superflyweight wrote:I surprise myself at how smart I really am sometimes.
.. and doubtless those who have met you as well.
Nice article, tina.
You're too kind, superfly.
I think.
Mind the windows Tino.- Beano
- Posts : 21145
Join date : 2011-05-13
Location : Your knuckles whiten on the wheel. The last thing that Julius will feel, your final flight can't be delayed. No earth just sky it's so serene, your pink fat lips let go a scream. You fry and melt, I love the scene.
Similar topics
» Real Boxing Heroes II: Max Schmeling
» Real boxing heroes: Young Perez.
» Real Boxing Heroes IV: Pancho Villa
» Boxing Heroes - Tony Sibson
» Britain's early boxing heroes - Tom "The Black Diamond" Cribb
» Real boxing heroes: Young Perez.
» Real Boxing Heroes IV: Pancho Villa
» Boxing Heroes - Tony Sibson
» Britain's early boxing heroes - Tom "The Black Diamond" Cribb
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Boxing
Page 1 of 1
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum