Wallaby problems at 10

by **George Carlin** Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:51 am

I'm not sure what the halfback hinge is going to look like for the Aussies when they start their summer test series against Scotland in Newcastle on 5 June.

1. By all accounts, Cooper has resumed light training at best, but has not yet set a particular time to be back and still seems to be in pain.

2. Conventional wisdom has it that they were going to put James O'Connor in at 10 but he was accidentally kneed in the back by Berrick Barnes at the weekend and has now been diagnosed with a lacerated liver. At best, the earliest he could come back from that is 1 June when the Rebels play the Brumbies, at which point he will have had no recent game time at any level.

Anyone have any feel for who will get the 10 shirt instead, assuming that both of these guys are out?

by bluestonevedder Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:55 am

Would say Giteau but he's away in France so will probably be out of favour. Second choice would be Barnes if i'm not mistaken...? Although, I know the Rebels are toying with the idea of Beale at 10, so depending on how that goes...?

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:57 am

I would think Berrick barnes might be a shout, but his form hasn't been great so far. Alternatively Beale could play there he is very talented.

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:58 am

austrlia do have a lot of multi talented backs who have in the past slotted into various positions, if those two don't get it, I am sure Deans will look at a number of other options.

by **George Carlin** Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:10 am

He definitely has a good rugby brain and the speed to get out of some trouble, but can Beale possibly have the tactical sense and kicking game to play 10?
Has he played there before?

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:11 am

I am pretty sure he has played 10 before, will see if I can find anything.

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:13 am

Beale is an exciting backline prospect with raw talent that has allowed him to excel in multiple positions throughout his blossoming career. The youngster has established himself in the Waratahs Super 14 side, with his standout year to date coming in the 2008 campaign when he played every match in the run to the final.

Success at schoolboy level was followed by a Super 14 debut in 2007 at the age of just 18. Beale alternated between fly-half and inside centre for the Waratahs, but settled at No. 15. He was selected for Australia's 2009 tour as back-up for playmakers Matt Giteau and Berrick Barnes and impressed enough in tour fixtures to win a debut Test cap off the bench against Wales in Cardiff.

He earned his first Test start against Fiji the following year before appearing off the bench against England and Ireland but his push for a Tri-Nations role was hampered by assault charges - that he was cleared of - and a A$5,000 fine for urinating outside a nightclub following the victory over the Irish.

He struck a rich vein of form in the 2010 Tri-Nations with a try against the New Zealand in Christchurch, and repeated the feat against South Africa in Bloemfontein, but topped the lot with a 55-metre match-winning penalty in the latter game to propel the Wallabies to their first win against the Boks at altitude since 1963.

He began the 2011 Super Rugby season at fullback but also returned to fly-half as cover for Berrick Barnes, who was ruled out with concussion. In a surprise move, however, he announced that he would be moving south to the fledgling Melbourne Rebels in 2012. Before then - however - Beale will go to the World Cup with the Wallabies having been named in their 30-man squad for the tournament.

by wales606 Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:15 am

Wait! It was Barnes who kneed JOC in the liver.

Very suspicious as he is the backup 10! Wink

Surely Barnes will play 10, the question then becomes - who will play 12?

by ChequeredJersey Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:16 am

by wales606 Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:17 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:AAC?

Seen him play 13 or back 3 - Has he ever played 10/12. I imagine he will stay at 13.

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:22 am

Pat McCabe will most likely play at 12 or rob horne.

by MonkeyOwain12 Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:52 am

Cooper pulled out of some touch at training this week...I'm pretty sure that he's not going to back anytime soon.

Not sure that it's a major problem at the moment with Barnes and possibly Beale to come in and play there. McCabe has looked good and some of the younger outside backs have looked outstanding. Tapuai will be back soon too, a lot of time has gone in to him so I'm sure he'd get the nod. AAC has been very accustomed to 13.

It's still going to be a strong line up.

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:04 pm

Monkey, to be honest I think it would be good for Oz to play this series wothout the maverick Cooper, just so that deans can see what it is like to play with a more conventional and allrounded Fly half.

Cooper can be as poor as he can be brilliant.

by Full Credit Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:15 pm

I'm sure Cooper will be back by then, I thought he was maybe a month away but he won't have had much game time by the start of the test window. Barnes will probably get the nod if Cooper's no good. Lealiifano's probably going to be in the mix somewhere too, he's been in pretty good form for the Brumbies.

by RubyGuby Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:32 pm

Coopers in the driving seat and I see a mini revival iif he's given the chance. He can be a liability on a wet surface and doesn't always fire on all cylinders but aside of those issues he's the man to get the job done. thumbsup

by Majestic83 Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:37 pm

Australia will be fine at 10 for the test series. I would imagine the starting 10 against Scotland will be Christian Leilafano from the Brumbies, at the moment he is the form 10 from the australian sides if not the form 10 in the super rugby series.

by RubyGuby Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:38 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Coopers in the driving seat and I see a mini revival iif he's given the chance. He can be a liability on a wet surface and doesn't always fire on all cylinders but aside of those issues he's the man to get the job done. Would have loved to have seen him play outside Austin Healey

by boomeranga Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:41 pm

I think it'll be Barnes or Beale pending more injuries, with Christian Lealiifano from the Brumbies an outside chance. Lilo carries the reputation as being prone to errors, but I think he has been playing well.

Beale played 10 all the way through school, then for the first couple of years as a pro. His form fell apart leading to him getting dropped altogether before coming back as a fullback. He was big news from about 15 or 16 and said the spotlight as a young guy sent him off the rails a bit. Beale School days video

Losing Tapuai on the weekend was a bit of a blow as well. I thought he would feature in a test or two, but is reported as out for 10 weeks.

by gowales Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:56 pm

How about Mike Harris? he's Aussie qualified and looks pretty assured there. I've heard Deans/ARU wants to cap guys like Harris, Lynn etc. to lock them into the Aussie system

by boomeranga Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:13 pm

Not to say someone like Harris wont get capped, but the Deans/ARU part would just be the rumour mill whirring gowales. People are lining up to slag us at present, so I'd bet a story like that would of emerged from all that talk. I'm currently trying to invent a few of my own just to even up the score. chin

Harris is a player that gets talked about a bit but he hasn't actually been on the field much. Missed most of last year and so far half of this year. He's a terrific place kicker though.

by **George Carlin** Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:02 pm

Please can we have Gitau again? Scotland likes him taking the last minute kicks.
Run

by funnyExiledScot Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:16 pm

I'll bet they're really annoyed that Parks chose Scotland now idea

by anotherworldofpain Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:40 pm

So much is made of New Zeeland so called "world cup hangover" and there is mostly Piri Weepu has no form and has been fat, and player like Nonu playing so far inside of his capability. But so little said about Australia who seem to have trouble across all there super club. Well it is one thing that every year a lot of prediction come from watching super rugby and every year is some different turn out once the combinator to the national team put together and playing. So what is happen about ? In my mind answer comes from they too many clubs add on to super rugby and not the club competition underside that.

Growing rugby across Australia was strategy to move around best player and make a fans all happy and proud and so following rugby. But there now too many club and not even enough Wallabies to play this trick. So all fall down a bit and not much convincement. Needs more playing and less watching growth there in my mind. And once playing then strong staff to training and teaching, or they soon fall back to other team sport quickly and forget about it.Where is this growing? I'm not there, but I can't see it from here.

Compare South Africa and New Zeeland both grow up the players underneath through long strategy and so we see competitive for consistent team like Crusader and Stormers and Bulls and even New Zeeland growing Hailanders and Chiefs up a bit too with player for under age groups.

But we know one thing, first Australian combinator still very strong to beat when all jam is spread in the middle of the bread. So again not much knowledge come from make predictions spring forth from super cup.

But mostly my mind is will be good to watch the tours and see international rugby once more. Whoever will win, then good luck to them.

by wales606 Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:16 pm

anotherworldofpain wrote:So much is made of New Zeeland so called "world cup hangover" and there is mostly Piri Weepu has no form and has been fat, and player like Nonu playing so far inside of his capability. But so little said about Australia who seem to have trouble across all there super club. Well it is one thing that every year a lot of prediction come from watching super rugby and every year is some different turn out once the combinator to the national team put together and playing. So what is happen about ? In my mind answer comes from they too many clubs add on to super rugby and not the club competition underside that.

Growing rugby across Australia was strategy to move around best player and make a fans all happy and proud and so following rugby. But there now too many club and not even enough Wallabies to play this trick. So all fall down a bit and not much convincement. Needs more playing and less watching growth there in my mind. And once playing then strong staff to training and teaching, or they soon fall back to other team sport quickly and forget about it.Where is this growing? I'm not there, but I can't see it from here.

Compare South Africa and New Zeeland both grow up the players underneath through long strategy and so we see competitive for consistent team like Crusader and Stormers and Bulls and even New Zeeland growing Hailanders and Chiefs up a bit too with player for under age groups.

But we know one thing, first Australian combinator still very strong to beat when all jam is spread in the middle of the bread. So again not much knowledge come from make predictions spring forth from super cup.

But mostly my mind is will be good to watch the tours and see international rugby once more. Whoever will win, then good luck to them.

What? Im fair sure large part of that are unintelligible - either that or I am having a stroke.

by anotherworldofpain Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:18 pm

Sorry friend my English is still not so big and I am trying just to learn about natural conversating here and also share about rugby is my big pasion! I hope I make some sense in the future for you.

by wales606 Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:19 pm

anotherworldofpain wrote:Sorry friend my English is still not so big and I am trying just to learn about natural conversating here and also share about rugby is my big pasion! I hope I make some sense in the future for you.

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:20 pm

anotherworldofpain, the problem South Africa still faces is their continual appointment of conservative coaches.

If they don't look outside their country we will fail to be number one due to the fact that coaches can't look past kicking flyhalves.

We need a Robbie Deans, John Mitchell or Graham Henry who will not fear developing our game.

Currently all that talent is being under utilised and wasted at international level.

SARU is the handbrake that stifles evolution of modern professional rugby in SA

by maestegmafia Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:21 pm

Poor James O'Conner has a lacerated liver. Not nice.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:21 pm

Wouldn't the 10 have been Barnes anyway with O'Connor at 12? I have always thought that would be the best backline. Well, it would be between Barnes and Cooper at 10 for me. Has Barnes not been playing well or something? He is a great player IMO.

by anotherworldofpain Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:22 pm

biltongbek wrote:anotherworldofpain, the problem South Africa still faces is their continual appointment of conservative coaches.

If they don't look outside their country we will fail to be number one due to the fact that coaches can't look past kicking flyhalves.

We need a Robbie Deans, John Mitchell or Graham Henry who will not fear developing our game.

Currently all that talent is being under utilised and wasted at international level.

SARU is the handbrake that stifles evolution of modern professional rugby in SA

I never hear Peter Devillier called conservative before. Hug

Perhaps I get this word confuse with another. Hug

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:22 pm

No he was just incompetent.

by ChequeredJersey Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:26 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Wouldn't the 10 have been Barnes anyway with O'Connor at 12? I have always thought that would be the best backline. Well, it would be between Barnes and Cooper at 10 for me. Has Barnes not been playing well or something? He is a great player IMO.

I'd have JOC at 10 over Barnes. But he can play anywhere so when gets back Australia have a lot of options

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:27 pm

O'Connor says his favourite position is 12, and I honestly think his talents are suited there the most.

by **Biltong** Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:27 pm

I doubt O'Connor will be available though, he has a lacerated kidney.

by anotherworldofpain Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:29 pm

Ireland have that problem for a few years and still playing.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:31 pm

anotherworldofpain wrote:Ireland have that problem for a few years and still playing.

At 10? I would say 10 is a position that Ireland have fantastic depth in.

by anotherworldofpain Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:31 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
anotherworldofpain wrote:Ireland have that problem for a few years and still playing.

At 10? I would say 10 is a position that Ireland have fantastic depth in.

Sorry I try to make a joke. But was slowly because first I have to look up what is lacerated.

by Full Credit Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:52 am

JOC wasn't kneed in the back, he was running at full speed to contest a bomb and while up in the air copped a knee front on in the ribs. Anyway, the rebels are thinking of playing Beale at 10 this weekend so if they do that we might get some better idea of Kurtley's capabilities there. The Waratahs tried Beale at 10 last season from memory but I don't recall being overly impressed with him there.

I wouldn't say Barnes has been in scintillating form either. So many aimless kicks, but in fairness to Berrick that's not just his problem but is endemic at that club right now.

by MonkeyOwain12 Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:57 am

Completely forgot about Tapuai and his collarbone...fantastic tackle!!

I think you play Barnes at 10 and keep Beale at 15. There's nothing stopping him coming in at first receiver now and again, but to miss out on his counter attacking ability would be scandalous!!
Barnes can steady a ship (his/tags kicking has been poor though) but he's still a class act.

Plenty of young guys to fill voids elsewhere...

Can't see Cooper playing to be honest, if he's pulling out of light training (touch) I think he'll need a bit more time. Even to build his confidence again...

by Full Credit Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:08 am

If I had to guess I'd say our backline (barring any injuries) will probably look something like Barnes, McCabe, Tapuai/AAC, JOC (if fit), Beale. But there are any number of other blokes pushing for test spots that could slot in on the other wing, Kingston, Shipperly, Mogg (although he's more a fullback)

I'm not a big fan of playing good players out of position. Keep JOC on the wing and Beale at the back. These guys thrive on a bit of space.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:52 am

Well according to O'Connor his best position is 12. I don't think he is a winger at all.

by Full Credit Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:25 pm

Well according to my missus she's a genius but that doesn't make it so. It might be his favourite position but not necessarily his best. Having Cooper at 10 and O'Connor at 12 is a massive risk defensively. Watching Pat McCabe steamroll O'Connor a few weeks ago showed that it might be a bridge too far against the big Welsh backs.

by formerly known as Sam Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:44 pm

Could Tom Carter slot in at 12 for the Wallabies if required? He's a strong defender and he carries well, could be a good option if the Welsh are bringing big boys in the backs.

For me JOC is best in the back three, give him space to attack and he is a menace but in the line his lack of physicality is made more evident and there is less opportunity to use his speed. Now Beale I think should be trialled at 12 again as he looked good at 10 for the final 15 or so at the weekend playing there. Genia, Cooper, Mitchell, Beale, AAC, Iaone, JOC.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:44 pm

The massive welsh backs that aren't likely to be available? Roberts and Davies aren't going to be playing probably. Plus, O'Connor has put in some very good tackles before as well, and has great experience at his age. There is no reason to cotton wool him and stick him on the wing (where the biggest welsh backs are) just because he missed one tackle on McCabe. I think O'Connor could become the world's best 12 easily.

by Full Credit Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:05 pm

Whether it's the big Welsh backs that may or may not be playing, or Sonny-Bill, or Nonu, or deVilliers, or Tuilangi, every country these days have big, hard running backs. You can't just say, well today we're playing so and so, lets play everyone here because they don't have any big backs, but next week they will so we'll try something different.

The big guys for Wales might be on the wing but by the time it gets to them from phase ball the gap has been closed somewhat in theory making the tackle easier. If it's first phase ball and these guys are coming in off their wings to crash it up off a long run and you've got Cooper and O'Connor as the defensive line then you've got yourself a big problem.

I can certainly see what you're saying but so long as Cooper is the favoured 10, I don't think we'll ever see O'Connor at 12. That said, I'm not a huge fan of McCabe's either as he often seems incapable of passing the ball but at least he offers a bit of starch in defence.

by Imperialbigdave Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:37 pm

While the obvious candidate for the 10 shirt is Barnes, in the context of the scotland game, itll probably be Harris, Lealifano, Tomua or at an outside bet, Haliagnahu (spelling?), with Mccabe at 12.

Beale played 10 for the tahs a few seasons back, but it was the move to 15 that got him recognised, so i doubt hell be moving back.

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