Are London Irish still better than Connacht?

From the start of professionalism London Irish were a bigger name and better team than the provinces, however,the provinces caught up and got better than LI. However over the last few years LIhave declined and Connacht have improved. So do you think that Connacht have caught up on the Exiles yet?

I dont think they have quite yet.

Next season will be interesting though as the likes of Armitage, Hape, Casey, Hodgson, Kennedy etc are all leaving.

But for now they haven't quite overtaken them.

Connacht are on the way up while LI are on the way down. LI have still a stronger squad you'd think. Connacht could be 3 - 5 seasons off Glasgow/Edinburghs level yet so its still a long term project on west.

No - simple answer.

London Irish is still a much bigger brand and name.

They also made it to a HC semi in 2007/8. Got to the final of the 2008/2009 GP - narrowly losing to Leicester.

In the 2010/11 season London Irish came 6th in the AP, qualifying for the HC without needing a helping hand.

LI are producing a lot of talented youngsters at the minute which is keeping them afloat. Homer, Gibson, Lahiff, Corbiserio, Yarde, Watson, Joseph etc they are looking quite brilliant despite a good number of the big names setting sail for pastures new. What will be a worry for LI is if other clubs start raiding their playing stocks at younger ages. Guy Armitage is probably a one off but that is something they cannot afford to become a trend otherwise they will go the way of Newcastle.

Sure didn't they beat the mighty Quins. Came close enough in the Stoop too.

Did LI beat Quins this year? (Too lazy to look it up)

LI would never make it in the Rabo.

Jenifer McLadyboy the worrying thing is I don't know if you are joking or not.

LI would never make it in the Rabo. Funniest thing I have heard for some time.

They would likely be above Treviso,Dragons,Connacht,Aironi and Edinburgh meaning they would be 7th at least.

Could well threaten the likes of Glasgow,Scarlets,Cardiff and Ulster too.

Of course it helps that London Irish would play a full strength side most of the time whereas their opposition would have one eye on internationals and the other on the HC.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:LI would never make it in the Rabo.

Really? I think they would thrive in it. They churn out quality young players and I think with the right structures leading to player development and protection could really do very very well.

Well taking the three fixtures that both have fulfilled against the same opposition Harequins x2 and Gloucester away the Connacht results stack up favourably.

Connact 1 win 2 loses. Net point difference - 11
London Irish 3 loses. Net point difference - 14.

London Irish need to beat Gloucester to get a better set of results.

What does this suggest - that playing wise, this year, there is nothing between them.
Sounds about right to me

Geoff, I dont think that is an accurate comparison.

The better one I think is what would happen if London Irish played Connacht say 5 times.

How many games would you expect Connacht to win. Id be surprised if they won 2 of the 5.

Geoff Newcastle beat Gloucester the other day and drew with Quins?. Does that make them better than London Irish and Connacht?

Maybe it's a very harsh viewpoint but I still see Connacht as a small club that occasionally punches above it's weight as it did vs Quins.

London Irish in comparison are a medium sized club going through a rough patch.

Didn't Edinburgh beat LI twice in this seasons HEC? Of course Edinburgh put all their eggs in one basket this year and are second last in the Rabo league. Last if you leave out the weak Aironi team.

Gone are the days when teams didn't have to take the Rabo seriously. Nowadays its more competitive than given credit for and thats why Edinburgh are second last.

When Eric Elwood took over the Connacht job he said they were going out to win every match. Although they lack quality in certain areas they do have a good attitude and rarely get hammered. They've picked up more losing bonus points than any other team this season. When comparing LI and Connacht you also need to look at the teams attitude. On one side you have the likes of Delon Armitage, on the other you have Gavin Duffy.

In 4 games against Aviva teams Connachts worst result was an 8 points defeat at the Stoop and that flattered Quins.

Fact is Connacht were compettive in all 4 games so they punched above there weight 4 times out of 4.

I am not saying Connacht are a bigger club but I do maintain that on performances this year Connacht are the equal of London Irish.
London Irish have dished up some pretty poor stuff this year and are one of the weakest 4 teams in the league in my view.

beshocked wrote:They would likely be above Treviso,Dragons,Connacht,Aironi and Edinburgh meaning they would be 7th at least.

Could well threaten the likes of Glasgow,Scarlets,Cardiff and Ulster too.

Until Connacht stop being treated as a place where the young talent can be poached to sit in Munster/Leinster's A team or somewhere to dump geriatrics they will remain a "small" club. They are however a team that punches well above it's weight.

LI however have failed to maximise their abilities over the last couple of seasons. In current form though it would be hard to see them finishing too high in the Rabo. After all they lost home and away to both Cardiff Blues and Edinburgh.

I believe that LI have the better squad, but on 2011/12 performances it would be hard to justify that belief.

beshocked wrote:Geoff Newcastle beat Gloucester the other day and drew with Quins?. Does that make them better than London Irish and Connacht?

If Newcastle had played as well for most of the season as they have done in the last 4 games or so they would not be in a relegation spot.
They have upped their game but too late baring a miracle in High Wycombe.

beshocked wrote:Geoff Newcastle beat Gloucester the other day and drew with Quins?. Does that make them better than London Irish and Connacht?

Maybe it's a very harsh viewpoint but I still see Connacht as a small club that occasionally punches above it's weight as it did vs Quins.

London Irish in comparison are a medium sized club going through a rough patch.

Connacht would be best compared with Exeter. Both don't have many big names but punch above their weight.

Having said that both have quality players. Connacht have Eoin Griffin, Ronan Loughney and Teirnan O'Halloran who are not far off the Ireland squad. John Muldoon, Mike McCarthy, Gavin Duffy and Bret Wilkinson who have been capped and a few others. Thats not to mention the likes of Michael Swift who is Mr Consistent and a great player for any squad to have. They also have a fair few U20 players on Irish undergae teams in the last few years. Dan Parks is going to them next season which will bring up their winning percentage.

On one side you have the likes of Delon Armitage, on the other you have Gavin Duffy.

One idiot who is being shipped out to France in the summer because he's been replaced by another local lad who is more professional is not really an example of the LI squad.

London Irish have dished up some pretty poor stuff this year and are one of the weakest 4 teams in the league in my view.

As a Tigers fan I'd rather face any of Falcons, Wasps, Worcester, Bath or Sale than LI tbh. LI have had some injury issues but have an exciting backline and mobile forward pack. Should they be able to field a full strength team for the majority of next season they'll be top 6 again.

beshocked wrote:No - simple answer.

London Irish is still a much bigger brand and name.

They also made it to a HC semi in 2007/8. Got to the final of the 2008/2009 GP - narrowly losing to Leicester.

In the 2010/11 season London Irish came 6th in the AP, qualifying for the HC without needing a helping hand.

I agree LI are a bigger name, you list past achievements but the question is now the present and next year who's better.


To be honest saying that Li qualified for hcup on there own and connacht needed a hand, doesn't.t make me think worse of connacht.would li qualify on there own is they had to finish above Leinster, Munster or Ulster?

Domestic Leagues:

LI 7 wins, 2TBP, 9LBP
Connacht 7 wins, 0TBP 7LBP


Heineken Cup

LI 1 Win, 1TBP, 4LBP
Connacht 1 win, 0TBP, 2LBP



Connacht have performed better than previous seasons, and have won the same games as London Irish. While Connacht may be hard to beat, LI keep things even closer.

I'm surprised but it does seam to.be close between,them performance wise.g. London Irish are still the bigger brand. It shows either how far connacht have come or LI fallen or a bit of both.

Profitius

That's really disrespectful to Exeter saying they are like Connacht. Exeter have had a much stronger season. To many Exeter are the NH team of the season. Exeter are on a very much upward curve.

They haven't got as many high profile players as their rivals but it doesn't stop them beating other more fancied sides.

Kingshu my point is that Connacht are regularly one of the weakest clubs in the Rabo.

On paper London Irish actually have quite a decent side. The likes of Joseph,Homer,Armitage,Corbisiero,Ainsbro,Ojo,Tagicakibau are quality players.

They just are not performing.

Connacht in comparison have shown a lot more spirit despite playing much stronger teams on paper and the Quins scalp was a good one.

beshocked wrote:

They also made it to a HC semi in 2007/8. Got to the final of the 2008/2009 GP - narrowly losing to Leicester.

In the 2010/11 season London Irish came 6th in the AP, qualifying for the HC without needing a helping hand.

Is that all?

Morgannwg wrote:

beshocked wrote:

They also made it to a HC semi in 2007/8. Got to the final of the 2008/2009 GP - narrowly losing to Leicester.

In the 2010/11 season London Irish came 6th in the AP, qualifying for the HC without needing a helping hand.

Is that all?

Umm what's Connacht's HC record?

Oh and at least London Irish have reached a HC semi.

Profitius, bit tricky to compare Connact and Exe - they played each other in pre-season over in the west of Ireland, but I can't remember the exact score

LI are a bigger brand and bigger club but I'd say Connachts 1st 22 have certainly closed the gap.

One things for sure, on current form I wouldn't back LI to beat Connacht in Galway.

Connacht still have a long way to go though in terms of building a fan and player base and facilities that would be comparable to most established clubs, including LI. They are moving in the right direction though.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Profitius, bit tricky to compare Connact and Exe - they played each other in pre-season over in the west of Ireland, but I can't remember the exact score

Tell you what tho, I'm feeling generous, I've looked it up for you: 10-47

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Profitius, bit tricky to compare Connact and Exe - they played each other in pre-season over in the west of Ireland, but I can't remember the exact score

Tell you what tho, I'm feeling generous, I've looked it up for you: 10-47

Pre season is pre season. I wouldn't take much notice of any results especially since Irish teams don't play many pre season matches.

I wasn't being disrespectful to Exeter btw. I don't know how the other poster came to that conclusion. I mentioned that both teams have a good attitude and lack big names but still have some quality players. I never said Connacht were the same standard, however if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up.

beshocked wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

beshocked wrote:

They also made it to a HC semi in 2007/8. Got to the final of the 2008/2009 GP - narrowly losing to Leicester.

In the 2010/11 season London Irish came 6th in the AP, qualifying for the HC without needing a helping hand.

Is that all?

Umm what's Connacht's HC record?

Oh and at least London Irish have reached a HC semi.

Their HC record? I think it's better or equal to Saracens HC record of zero titles.

profitius wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Profitius, bit tricky to compare Connact and Exe - they played each other in pre-season over in the west of Ireland, but I can't remember the exact score

Tell you what tho, I'm feeling generous, I've looked it up for you: 10-47

Pre season is pre season. I wouldn't take much notice of any results especially since Irish teams don't play many pre season matches.

I wasn't being disrespectful to Exeter btw. I don't know how the other poster came to that conclusion. I mentioned that both teams have a good attitude and lack big names but still have some quality players. I never said Connacht were the same standard, however if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up.

Both clubs played a mixed group of players in the pre-season meet, so you're right we shouldn't read too much into it. But tell me, how would you support your bold statement that "if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up"?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

profitius wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Profitius, bit tricky to compare Connact and Exe - they played each other in pre-season over in the west of Ireland, but I can't remember the exact score

Tell you what tho, I'm feeling generous, I've looked it up for you: 10-47

Pre season is pre season. I wouldn't take much notice of any results especially since Irish teams don't play many pre season matches.

I wasn't being disrespectful to Exeter btw. I don't know how the other poster came to that conclusion. I mentioned that both teams have a good attitude and lack big names but still have some quality players. I never said Connacht were the same standard, however if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up.

Both clubs played a mixed group of players in the pre-season meet, so you're right we shouldn't read too much into it. But tell me, how would you support your bold statement that "if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up"?

Because the likes of Scarlets and Ulster look to be missing out and they're better than Exeter.

I'm not knocking Exeter, they're a well run club and getting better all the time and it'll be great seeing them in the HEC next season.

Morgannwg wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

beshocked wrote:

They also made it to a HC semi in 2007/8. Got to the final of the 2008/2009 GP - narrowly losing to Leicester.

In the 2010/11 season London Irish came 6th in the AP, qualifying for the HC without needing a helping hand.

Is that all?

Umm what's Connacht's HC record?

Oh and at least London Irish have reached a HC semi.

Their HC record? I think it's better or equal to Saracens HC record of zero titles.

Sorry but how can their record be better if they have also won zero titles?

I could go into win-loss records in the HC but I wouldn't want to make you look too silly Morgan.

I would back my side to beat any Pro12 side home or away bar Munster and Leinster in important European competitions so I don't really care.

Looking forward to playing more Pro12 sides in the HC next season. Preferably not Leinster though.

You're right it isn't better, it's equal then like I also mentioned. Also, did I mention Wales finished fourth in the 2011 World Cup?

I also look forward to next year. Ospreys in particular, have a HC record with Sarries to sort out.

however if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up.

I wouldn't bet against Exeter they are a real pain the ar$e to play against as they have good set pieces, defence and both tactical and points kicking games. A well rounded team that is starting to show some good stuff in attack without any big player razzle dazzle (though that massive centre does help). They've managed something which no one else has managed and that was to do the double over the Tigers, Clermont and Ulster couldn't beat Tigers at WR.

profitius wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

profitius wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Profitius, bit tricky to compare Connact and Exe - they played each other in pre-season over in the west of Ireland, but I can't remember the exact score

Tell you what tho, I'm feeling generous, I've looked it up for you: 10-47

Pre season is pre season. I wouldn't take much notice of any results especially since Irish teams don't play many pre season matches.

I wasn't being disrespectful to Exeter btw. I don't know how the other poster came to that conclusion. I mentioned that both teams have a good attitude and lack big names but still have some quality players. I never said Connacht were the same standard, however if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up.

Both clubs played a mixed group of players in the pre-season meet, so you're right we shouldn't read too much into it. But tell me, how would you support your bold statement that "if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up"?

Because the likes of Scarlets and Ulster look to be missing out and they're better than Exeter.

I'm not knocking Exeter, they're a well run club and getting better all the time and it'll be great seeing them in the HEC next season.

We'll see whose better hopefully in the HC. I can see Exeter suprising both. I think Scarlets are bit overrated. Ulster have had a decent run in the HC so deserve to be rated this season.

How does a thread about Connacht and LI become an England/Wales, Sarries/Ospreys bun fight?

Morgannwg wrote:You're right it isn't better, it's equal then like I also mentioned. Also, did I mention Wales finished fourth in the 2011 World Cup?

I also look forward to next year. Ospreys in particular, have a HC record with Sarries to sort out.

I didn't realise Wales played in the HC.

Yes 3-0 is not great is it. Sick of playing you now. Osprey's fans seem to have a tendency to whine when you lose - talk big before the game but when you lose the excuses come thick and fast. Maestegmafia,AlynDavies and you being perfect examples. We need some variety. I would like Cardiff as the Welsh team. That's a Welsh team who has done well in European competitions.

LondonTiger wrote:How does a thread about Connacht and LI become an England/Wales, Sarries/Ospreys bun fight?

Ever since resident Welsh wum Morgannwg posted.

As a London Irish fan this is a very interesting question. The answer I guess could depend on how you define 'better'.

It is fair to say that with the pool of players available to us we have underperformed this season, and I would imagine that a match between us and Connacht would be a close affair on current form.

I have the impression with Connacht that Eric Elwood is building solidly and trying to improve them on and off the field, and is succeeding with small steps being taken all the time. At London Irish this season there has been no improvement and there have been off field issues and question marks raised about Toby Botth's stewardship of the club. Since the return of Brian Smith there is a different atmosphere around the place and I believe that he has already made some astute signings who could do very well for us next season. I am not overly concerned about any of this seasons leavers, as none are palyers who have set the world alight this season and as others have stated we have good youngsters coming through who will benefit from this years experiences.

Off field, I think the London Irish 'brand' is still bigger than Connacht although through a lack of Irish players in recent years means that it may have lost some of it's draw with the exiled community in and around London. I know that this is something that Brian Smith is also looking to address.

I don't think there is any real answer as to who is 'better' of Connacht and London Irish to be honest, but both look to be trying to make improvements to 'better' themselves. Hopefully both will be on an upward curve next season and will have better seasons than they have this.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

however if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up.

I wouldn't bet against Exeter they are a real pain the ar$e to play against as they have good set pieces, defence and both tactical and points kicking games. A well rounded team that is starting to show some good stuff in attack without any big player razzle dazzle (though that massive centre does help). They've managed something which no one else has managed and that was to do the double over the Tigers, Clermont and Ulster couldn't beat Tigers at WR.

Exeter didn't put 41 points passed Leicester at home though

I think that 5th/6th is about as good as Exter would do in thePro 12.
Behind 3 Irish provinces and Ospreys and slugging it out with Glasgow and Scarlets

profitius wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

profitius wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Profitius, bit tricky to compare Connact and Exe - they played each other in pre-season over in the west of Ireland, but I can't remember the exact score

Tell you what tho, I'm feeling generous, I've looked it up for you: 10-47

Pre season is pre season. I wouldn't take much notice of any results especially since Irish teams don't play many pre season matches.

I wasn't being disrespectful to Exeter btw. I don't know how the other poster came to that conclusion. I mentioned that both teams have a good attitude and lack big names but still have some quality players. I never said Connacht were the same standard, however if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up.

Both clubs played a mixed group of players in the pre-season meet, so you're right we shouldn't read too much into it. But tell me, how would you support your bold statement that "if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up"?

Because the likes of Scarlets and Ulster look to be missing out and they're better than Exeter.

I'm not knocking Exeter, they're a well run club and getting better all the time and it'll be great seeing them in the HEC next season.

Best not mention that Exe beat Scarlets in pre-season too.

geoff998rugby wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

however if Exeter were in the Rabo league they wouldn't be as high up.

I wouldn't bet against Exeter they are a real pain the ar$e to play against as they have good set pieces, defence and both tactical and points kicking games. A well rounded team that is starting to show some good stuff in attack without any big player razzle dazzle (though that massive centre does help). They've managed something which no one else has managed and that was to do the double over the Tigers, Clermont and Ulster couldn't beat Tigers at WR.

Exeter didn't put 41 points passed Leicester at home though

I think that 5th/6th is about as good as Exter would do in thePro 12.
Behind 3 Irish provinces and Ospreys and slugging it out with Glasgow and Scarlets

Not looked at the Rabo table recently then, geoff?

formerly known as Sam wrote:They've managed something which no one else has managed and that was to do the double over the Tigers, Clermont and Ulster couldn't beat Tigers at WR.

You're comparing apples and oranges there Sam. You can't compare a league game to a one-off, must win HEC game.

Do you seriously believe Exeter are better than Clermont?

It's a pointless comparison.

beshocked wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:You're right it isn't better, it's equal then like I also mentioned. Also, did I mention Wales finished fourth in the 2011 World Cup?

I also look forward to next year. Ospreys in particular, have a HC record with Sarries to sort out.

I didn't realise Wales played in the HC.

Yes 3-0 is not great is it. Sick of playing you now. Osprey's fans seem to have a tendency to whine when you lose - talk big before the game but when you lose the excuses come thick and fast. Maestegmafia,AlynDavies and you being perfect examples. We need some variety. I would like Cardiff as the Welsh team. That's a Welsh team who has done well in European competitions.

Me?

rodders wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:They've managed something which no one else has managed and that was to do the double over the Tigers, Clermont and Ulster couldn't beat Tigers at WR.

You're comparing apples and oranges there Sam. You can't compare a league game to a one-off, must win HEC game.

Do you seriously believe Exeter are better than Clermont?

It's a pointless comparison.

No more pointless than the original comparison between Connact and Exeter, rodders?

I think I'd agree with Ozzie about the current situation - Irish should just about beat Connaught but it wouldn't surprise me if they lost.

Connaught are in a good position in that rugby is slowly developing in the west and they will get better in a sustainable way. LI are in a "state of chassis" at the moment and the sooner this season draws to a close the better for us.

That said the signings so far and the noises from the club are all good so hopefully next season will see a return to our rightful place (i.e. about 5th or 6th)...

Yes you Morgannwg.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

rodders wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:They've managed something which no one else has managed and that was to do the double over the Tigers, Clermont and Ulster couldn't beat Tigers at WR.

You're comparing apples and oranges there Sam. You can't compare a league game to a one-off, must win HEC game.

Do you seriously believe Exeter are better than Clermont?

It's a pointless comparison.

No more pointless than the original comparison between Connact and Exeter, rodders?

Exactly.

To answer the original question. Yes, of course London Irish are still better than Connacht

You're comparing apples and oranges there Sam. You can't compare a league game to a one-off, must win HEC game.

Do you seriously believe Exeter are better than Clermont?

It's a pointless comparison.

Nope just an idication of the quality Exeter can manage. Small name but big team performances. It was in reply to the assumption that Exeter would not accomplish the same level of performance in the Rabo as they would in the AP.

rodders wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

rodders wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:They've managed something which no one else has managed and that was to do the double over the Tigers, Clermont and Ulster couldn't beat Tigers at WR.

You're comparing apples and oranges there Sam. You can't compare a league game to a one-off, must win HEC game.

Do you seriously believe Exeter are better than Clermont?

It's a pointless comparison.

No more pointless than the original comparison between Connact and Exeter, rodders?

Exactly.

I compared Connacht and Exeter on other things then who they beat. Its not hard logic to grasp for most people. I didn't mention anything about who Connacht beat or who Exeter beat!