Whose win is the more impressive?

Mayweather's over Cotto or Pac's over Cotto?

Mayweather's was more of a masterclass, Pac's more devastating. Would probably edge towards Manny as I think he fought a better Cotto (tho utilising a worse game plan) and won more punishingly.

I would have to say Mayweather, keeping in mind that he fought a rejuvinated Cotto at his natural weight of 154, with a proper trainer.

Mayweather cannot be beaten.

Not much between it

The manner of the win favoured pacquiao as he stopped him

The one vs maywetaher maybe more shopworn but u car help by think the catch weight hindered cotto. Also, cotto had just been beat up by clottey. He had 'mental demons' after the margarito fight, which weren't ther ewhen he fought floyd after he won the rematch

Nothing really in it

Manny's, whilst Mayweather dominated he didn't do so as convincingly. Cotto was a battered man after facing Manny, he at least retained his spring against Floyd.

Both utterly convincing wins, though, but the Manny beating was sickening.

The weight stipulations will always hang over Manny whilst floyd moved up to face Cotto. For that reason I say Floyd's win was more impressive. With a better corner Cotto could/should have made his fight with Manny far closer but he lost his way completely after the 4th.

A better corner? More like a lesser opponent...people generally do lose their way when they get clobbered by 100 punches a round.

I'd give the performance to Pac because he beat him up. But one cannot over-look the weight stips and the fighter Cotto was coming into the fight. He had just lost his unbeaten record in devestating manner and had scraped past Clottey. Plus he was forced to fight under his best weight. So whilst Pac looked better in winning, I'd edge it to Floyd because of the fact that Cotto was entering the fight with more confidence and in full fitness. Not weight drained.

Could Pacquiao have went up in weight to face the Cotto we witnessed last night AND go toe to toe with him?

Talking of Manny, anyone know which channel his fight with Bradley will be on? I'm actually looking forward to it.

Primetime at £15. No chance am I paying that.

No bloody way. I'll need a stream for this

Pacquiao by a distance for me. He demolished Cotto. Mayweather won a competitve fight.

The only equaliser was the weight class.

manny was more impressive - the knockdowns and the eventual stoppage. he forced cotto into retreat. however, he was forced to fight at 145. straight after this he moved to light middle. he fought floyd at 10lbs heavier and was rejuvinated from his revenge over magarito.

the performance - manny's was better. remember manny hadnt fought at welter (or catch weight welter) before. (ok - oscar, but he was a walking punch bag)

but i think mayweather fought a better cotto.

Manny by miles. Cotto was always weighing in at 146 so weghing in a pound less had no effect. Seen as Manny had been a super feather the year before he faced Cotto, the weight was still massively in Miguel's favour.

Cotto got his tactics spot on last night though, against Manny he didn't and was caught in two minds.

There's many different ways you can look at this, last night wasn't Floyds most impressive win but people who critic him and say he can't go toe to toe he proved wrong... and at a higher weight.

However Pacquiao's performance against Cotto was probably some of the best stuff I've seen him.

I genuinely believe that cleverer tactics by Cotto against Manny could have seen him get the win, if he had continued to fight in the same manner behind the jab liek he did in the first round then he could have won it.

There's a moment in the second MAyweather's win has the round where he gets caught by two straight lefts, thats the fight over at that point in my opinion, because Cotto responds every single time after that leading in with hooks and charging in at him wanting to fight fire with fire, just didn't get back to his boxing.

As to who's win is more impressive, it's very close, Mayweathers win has the weight plus added to it, but Pacqiaou has the more dominant performance, would go with Pacqiaou's win, but not by much.

Interestingly, Mayweathers accuracy was down to to only about 25% in the fight. Its normally up around the 40% mark. Shows that Cotto must have been doing something right,especially for a fighter criticised often as being far too hittable.

Mayweather was 179/687: Cotto 105/506

Pacquiao was 336/780: Cotto 93/300

Mannys was more impressive. He busted Cotto to pieces. He won in a far better fashion; you can argue as to whether the weight etc made any difference.

manos de piedra wrote:Pacquiao by a distance for me. He demolished Cotto. Mayweather won a competitve fight.

The only equaliser was the weight class.

I think this strengthens my argument that 145 adversely affected Cotto. Also the whole argument that Pac was smaller so the catchweight was there to equalise things has been rendered ridiculous as Floyd came in at 151, giving away 3lbs. Had Pac made that fight at 147 and won in the same manner as he did, then I would have no alternative but to admit that he was better against Cotto than Floyd was.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Pacquiao by a distance for me. He demolished Cotto. Mayweather won a competitve fight.

The only equaliser was the weight class.

I think this strengthens my argument that 145 adversely affected Cotto. Also the whole argument that Pac was smaller so the catchweight was there to equalise things has been rendered ridiculous as Floyd came in at 151, giving away 3lbs. Had Pac made that fight at 147 and won in the same manner as he did, then I would have no alternative but to admit that he was better against Cotto than Floyd was.

I dont think so. It strikes me as just clutching at straws and trying to find an excuse as to why Pacquiao might hold a more impressive win.

If you adopt the position that Pacquiao cant possibly put in a better performance than Mayweather then you will find a reason. But it seems more like trying to build facts around an argument rather than vice versa.

I think Pacquiao is a fantastic boxer with a style and ability of outperforming Mayweather on occasion. Mayweather beat Marquez for instance more impressively than Pacquiao - i wont go into the into the catchweight. But Pacquiao clearly beat Cotto more impressivelt for me.

Now in the aftermath Im reading things like this was a better version of Cotto, Cotto would have beaten Pacquiao with a better plan, Cotto would have beaten Pacquiao without the catchweight etc

Just seems like its trying to take away from Pacquiao and give to Mayweather. It wasnt even a bad performance from Mayweather. He won the fight clearly in my view. But the commentators in the fight seemed to make up their mind that this was a masterclass before the first bell. I dont think it was. A good win over a good opponent but not up there with the kind of performances like Corrales, Gatti or even Mosley and Marquez.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Pacquiao by a distance for me. He demolished Cotto. Mayweather won a competitve fight.

The only equaliser was the weight class.

I think this strengthens my argument that 145 adversely affected Cotto. Also the whole argument that Pac was smaller so the catchweight was there to equalise things has been rendered ridiculous as Floyd came in at 151, giving away 3lbs. Had Pac made that fight at 147 and won in the same manner as he did, then I would have no alternative but to admit that he was better against Cotto than Floyd was.

I dont think so. It strikes me as just clutching at straws and trying to find an excuse as to why Pacquiao might hold a more impressive win.

If you adopt the position that Pacquiao cant possibly put in a better performance than Mayweather then you will find a reason. But it seems more like trying to build facts around an argument rather than vice versa.

I think Pacquiao is a fantastic boxer with a style and ability of outperforming Mayweather on occasion. Mayweather beat Marquez for instance more impressively than Pacquiao - i wont go into the into the catchweight. But Pacquiao clearly beat Cotto more impressivelt for me.

Now in the aftermath Im reading things like this was a better version of Cotto, Cotto would have beaten Pacquiao with a better plan, Cotto would have beaten Pacquiao without the catchweight etc

Just seems like its trying to take away from Pacquiao and give to Mayweather. It wasnt even a bad performance from Mayweather. He won the fight clearly in my view. But the commentators in the fight seemed to make up their mind that this was a masterclass before the first bell. I dont think it was. A good win over a good opponent but not up there with the kind of performances like Corrales, Gatti or even Mosley and Marquez.

My first response on this thread was "I'd give the performance to Pac because he beat him up.". But there were circumstances in that fight that takes much of the gloss away.

I agree the whole catchweight business tends to make me applaud Mayweather's victory more.....

Plus the fact he's a better fighter that hasn't lost to the same guy three times...

If I was Floyd I'd retire now.

Not sure he can stop Manny and me thinks with Arum promoting that it's his only chance..

A stoppage..

Floyd would have stopped Cotto without the 10oz pillows on his hands. If he had 8oz he would have ended the fight earlier. Cotto wanted 10oz for protection.

Would have stopped him earlier.. If he could have got his spinning back fist working properly..

They were 8oz gloves

No they were 10oz

I'm pretty sure that in the fight they said that the gloves were 8oz,

Mayweather said about a month ago that the gloves would be 8 ounces as the 10oz ounces he fought de la Hoya with where 'pillows'

Yes he did say that but Cotto wanted 10oz for more protection. The powers that be had to make a decision and the nodd went to 10oz look it up.

10oz is standerd for light middle anyway.

PAC fought cotto at 145lbs and in the contract cotto wasn't able to rehydrate on fight nite! Mayweather fought cotto at 154 and Floyd couldn't even make the weight (151). PAC 8oz gloves, Floyd 10oz!! Bet PAC get ko by either cotto or Floyd at 154

I was away over the weekend and was unable to see the fight so can't comment but do any of you have a link to where I could rewatch the fight as in work and unable to search until I go home this evening.

Pedro147 wrote:I was away over the weekend and was unable to see the fight so can't comment but do any of you have a link to where I could rewatch the fight as in work and unable to search until I go home this evening.

If its not available on youtube then its on mma-core just hit the boxing tab above. I've put a link for the 1st part anyway, enjoy.

http://www.boxing-core.com/videos/_Floyd_Mayweather_Jr_vs_Miguel_Cotto_Part_1?vid=10004301&tid=107

sohotnot wrote:

Pedro147 wrote:I was away over the weekend and was unable to see the fight so can't comment but do any of you have a link to where I could rewatch the fight as in work and unable to search until I go home this evening.

If its not available on youtube then its on mma-core just hit the boxing tab above. I've put a link for the 1st part anyway, enjoy.

http://www.boxing-core.com/videos/_Floyd_Mayweather_Jr_vs_Miguel_Cotto_Part_1?vid=10004301&tid=107

Thanking you very much.

Manny beat Cotto up and won far more convincingly for my money.

manos de piedra wrote:Pacquiao by a distance for me. He demolished Cotto. Mayweather won a competitve fight.

The only equaliser was the weight class.

Have to agree with Manos.

Mayweather's was a good performance but Manny's was devastating. Even though there was a catchweight that had no bearing on the contest as leading up to the fight Cotto was comfortable coming in a pound or two lighter under the limit. Always though the catchweight Manny imposed was a waste of time due to nothing bein gained from it.

kevchadders wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Pacquiao by a distance for me. He demolished Cotto. Mayweather won a competitve fight.

The only equaliser was the weight class.

Have to agree with Manos.

Mayweather's was a good performance but Manny's was devastating. Even though there was a catchweight that had no bearing on the contest as leading up to the fight Cotto was comfortable coming in a pound or two lighter under the limit. Always though the catchweight Manny imposed was a waste of time due to nothing bein gained from it.

You cant say that with any degree of certainty. I reckon he was weakened with the same certainty you have that he was not weakened.

azania wrote:

kevchadders wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Pacquiao by a distance for me. He demolished Cotto. Mayweather won a competitve fight.

The only equaliser was the weight class.

Have to agree with Manos.

Mayweather's was a good performance but Manny's was devastating. Even though there was a catchweight that had no bearing on the contest as leading up to the fight Cotto was comfortable coming in a pound or two lighter under the limit. Always though the catchweight Manny imposed was a waste of time due to nothing bein gained from it.

You cant say that with any degree of certainty. I reckon he was weakened with the same certainty you have that he was not weakened.

Out of his 9 fights fought at that weight, he only hit the limit 4 times. That strikes me of a man who found 147 very comfortable to make weight in Azania. Asking to come in a few pounds lower than normal in a weight class he is comfortable making weight in, combined with many months to prepare for it makes me believe its a mute point, and should more be aimed at Manny's camp asking what was the point of it all as there wasn't anything team Manny would gain from it.

With those facts I believe we can say with a degree of cetainly the catchweight didnt have any effect on Cotto's performance, or the result.

I hear what you're saying. But you can never tell if that one pound made a difference. If not, why impose it? We know that Roach is on record in wanting fighters (SM) to be weight drained to take away some advantages the other boxer may have.

It doesn't detract from the fact that Pac put in a better performance, but we will never know what sort of Cotto he faced.

I'm surprised that opinion seems so split on this one. Surely Pacquiao's victory over Cotto was more impressive, and by a considerable distance, too? That's how I'd see it in my eyes, at least.

Mayweather didn't really show us anything we've not seen before the other night, and nor did he prove anything to us which we didn't already know, either. On the other hand, there were still a few questions being put to Pacquiao before he squared off against Cotto; could he take clean punches from a genuine Welterweight who could bang? How would he fare if Cotto boxed rather than brawled?

I remember watching the fight unfold and being simply astounded at the quality of Pacquiao's performance that night. He really did blow me away - it's by far the most impressed I've ever been by him. Cotto could do absolutely nothing to contain him.

I'd take slight exception to this idea that Cotto is automatically a better Light-Middleweight than he was a Welterweight, too. An ailment-ridden Foreman, the plainly ordinary Mayorga and a seriously shopworn Margarito to his credit is fair enough, but I don't really think there's any notable improvement in him from his Welterweight days in which he accounted for Mosley, Collazo and like. To be honest, I think Pacquiao actually faced a better version of Cotto, all things considered.

The catchweight doesn't really take any gloss off for me - and that's coming from someone who doesn't like the idea of catchweights in this day and age. Cotto had been 146 lb for his previous two fights; come on fellas, 145 lb was hardly going to kill him, was it? By fight night he was notably the bigger man anyhow.

Mayweather's win and performance against Cotto were both very, very good - but I believe that Pacquiao's were exceptional.

I'm of the opinion that there was very little difference in the Cotto that faced Pac and the Cotto that faced Floyd. On that basis, the Pac win is more impressive and certainly the performance that firmly put a marker on his greatness. Pac's performance that night put him about evens in a match-up with Floyd (if the fight had gone ahead in the monehts following).

Floyd's win was very good but not in the same league in terms of performance.

Obviously doesn't change my view that Floyd wins in a head to head.

I agree with Chris.

Seems to me that the main basis for picking Mayweather is largely down to the concept that Pacquiao is simply incapable of outperforming Mayweather. So when on the surface he does, there must be an alternative reason such as Cotto being weight drained - when there is little or no basis for suggesting this in my view. Not even Cotto has blamed the weight.

Id rate the Cotto performance as in the top 3 best of Pacquiaos career. By contrast, the Cotto performance wouldnt even be top 5 in Mayweathers career in my opinion.

Didn't really comment on this thread as the answer seemed simple, good to see common sense prevail eventually.

Interesting move by Ring magazine to vacate the pound for pound number one spot. Has it ever been done before?

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Interesting move by Ring magazine to vacate the pound for pound number one spot. Has it ever been done before?

Doesnt really make much sense? I mean why are they joint number 2 instead of joint number1?

Ive never heard of it before. Dont really like it if Im honest. I think Mayweather should be number 1 on the basis of the last fights.

manos de piedra wrote:

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Interesting move by Ring magazine to vacate the pound for pound number one spot. Has it ever been done before?

Doesnt really make much sense? I mean why are they joint number 2 instead of joint number1?

Ive never heard of it before. Dont really like it if Im honest. I think Mayweather should be number 1 on the basis of the last fights.

If you were to go on last fights you'd have to drop Pacquiao way down or even off of the list.

Perhaps Ring Mag are overestimating their own influence over the fighters and believe this will encourage the two to meet for the number one spot.

Also, does Ring Magazine have a belt for the Pound for Pound champion?

Pound-for-Pound wrote:Perhaps Ring Mag are overestimating their own influence over the fighters and believe this will encourage the two to meet for the number one spot.

Also, does Ring Magazine have a belt for the Pound for Pound champion?

Thats a fair point, and they did issue a statement recently saying they were adjusting their ranking system. If so then you cant blame them for at least trying!

Not sure about the pound for pound number 1 title being an actual belt. I didnt think it was though.