Ospreys v Munster Pro12 Semi Final match thread

[mrzimmerman]

First topic message reminder :

Teams announced;

Ospreys

15 Richard Fussell
14 Hanno Dirksen
13 Andrew Bishop
12 Ashley Beck
11 Shane Williams
10 Dan Biggar
9 Kahn Fotuali'i
1 Paul James
2 Richard Hibbard
3 Adam Jones
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Capt)
5 Ian Evans
6 Ryan Jones
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Joe Bearman

Replacements:

16 Scott Baldwin
17 Ryan Bevington
18 Aaron Jarvis
19 James King
20 Tom Smith
21 Rhys Webb
22 Matthew Morgan
23 Tom Isaacs

Munster: F Jones; J Murphy, K Earls, L Mafi, S Zebo; I Keatley, C Murray; W du Preez, M Sherry, BJ Botha; D O'Callaghan, M O'Driscoll; D Ryan, T O'Donnell, P O'Mahony.

Replacements: D Fogarty, D Kilcoyne, S Archer, Dave O'Callaghan, P Butler, T O'Leary, R O'Gara, I Dineen.

Big game Friday night. Any other Welsh region would be underdogs against one of the 3 main Irish teams in a big match either home or away BUT the Ospreys aren't. Reason being they aren't afraid of Munster, Leinster or Ulster as results this year have shown. The home side are favourites(this was further cemented by POC being announced as injured for the match). Saying this, there's no way that Munster will fear travelling to the Liberty. They are a strong, physical unit and will be desperate to win the Pro12 and retain their Celtic league crown.

I'm hoping for a flowing game but think both teams will play to their strengths in their respective packs. Where as to an extent the other semi is a David v Goliath I'd say this is far more evenly matched.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's views on the likely teams, key battles and anything else related.

Will update the post with teams as announced tomorrow. Have removed the dr strangelove ref from the title of the thread, got fed up of seeing it after a while.

[Taffineastbourne]

Just a mention for Fussell who gets some stick on here.He was a pretty good player for the Dragons and does pretty well for the Ospreys.He consistently gives 7/10-8/10 performances.He is not a great player but he does the best with what he has got.
He was very good tonight.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Bloody hell- Swansea it is then if 2 weeks !

[The Great Aukster]

Rolland was good tonight - as he always is.

Munster were spineless. O'Donnell and Zebo were as notably poor as O'Mahoney was good. POM wasn't great at getting the ball away behind a retreating scrum, but he was massive carrying and showing TOD and SZ how to make tackles.
Everytime Fussell got the ball the O's looked like scoring and the way Dirksen skinned Zebo it was surprising they didn't spin it wide more often.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Not sure how you could say O'Donnell was poor. Not sure he missed a tackle, and he was one of the reasons that Ospreys didn't score even more. He probably had the highest tackle count of the day. One silly penalty aside, he played very well IMO.

[Rory_Gallagher]

The only tackle O'Donnell could maybe have done better was for Dirksen's try. However, he was just totally outpaced for that one.

[The Great Aukster]

TOD should have left the inside man to POM for the Dirksen try, but for the Bishop try he was dithering in no mans land.

[Valleyboy]

Just got back... W H A T A N I G H T !!!

[Cardiff Dave]

Agree with Jiffy.
THE best Ospreys' performance I have witnessed.
Great game and some fantastic tries.

[Breadvan]

Just got back too. Suberp display be the Ospreys. Ominous signs when Munster scored after 2 mins but wow, Clinical and brilliant rugby by the ENTIRE team. Special mention to the much maligned Richard Fuss. What a run for the second try. Though ROG was poor after he came on, Muns fell apart after that. One of the best displays in years by the O's. Great to shake the players hands after the game as well.

[profitius]

On a positive note, it was Tony McGahans last game in charge.

[LordDowlais]

Just got back as well.

[LordDowlais]

nilld them in the second half, have to go to bed now as I am half cut. It took me five times to read and re-read this post for spelling mistakes. Busy day tomorrow with work, catch you all tomorrow afternoon, just before the BGT final.

[Jenifer McLadyboy]

That was a disgraceful performance from the ref. If not for his obvious Irish bias, Ospreys could have won that game handy.

[maestegmafia]

Best game of the season by the Ospreys, great night out at the Liberty... Lets hope there are many more like that

Well done Munster, a good season and what wonderful wonderful fans you have.

[Goosestepper]

Jeez - does this remind anyone else of watching Ireland play.

Bish bash up the middle and hope for the best dumb rugby and easy to defend and counter when you know its coming. No attacking threat whatsoever from stunted back line and p*ss weak defence with big Welsh centers and wings making tons of line breaks.....

Can't see how anyone would think that Earls played well. PoM on the other hand looked hungry and up for a fight.

A big clean out is required in Munster. RoG, DoC, Mod, should go but where are the replacements coming from... Casey L seems a straight swap for Mafi..... any other signings or academy players coming through.

Hopefully a new coach will add some much needed vigour and creativity (for Munster and Ireland)

[eirebilly]

Morning all;

Congrats to the O's and thier fans. That was a fantastic performance and one that i havent seen for them in a very long time so

Munster were dire but i can only put that down to being blown away last night. No excuses here, no A-team or missing player excuses as this was still a very decent Munster team on paper. Simply bested on the night in what was an absolutely absorbing game of rubgy.

[Huwball]

Well done the Ospreys - best I've seen them play for years!

Paul O'Connel was sitting a couple of seats in front of me and spent most of the 2nd half with his head in his hands

Let's hope Glasgow can pull one out of the bag against Leinster (although that would take a lot of wishes I think especially with Clancy as the ref )

Once again... Well done the players and the fans who made it the occasion it was

[rodders]

Well done Ospreys, I fancied them to win but not by such a margin.

Totally outsmarted and outmuscled Munster and were superior in every aspect of the game. Leinster will have to bring their A game to have a chance in the final.

Back to the drawing board for Munster, who just seem clueless in attack. I can't understand why ROG is standing so deep and trying to run every ball. All Munsters attacks were miles behind the gainline and it was just so easy for the Ospreys to move up and isolate the ball carrier and effect turn overs.

In the end Munster just fell apart and it was very painful viewing from an Irish point of view.

Penney will have a real job on his hands next season on this seasons evidence.

[Rory_Gallagher]

The Ospreys are real contenders to win the Pro 12 title IMO. Lets not write off Glasgow just yet though rodders

As for Munster, it was honestly hard to watch. They looked like rabbits caught in headlights. They didn't know what to do and just looked so disjointed. I am a bit unsure for Munster next season. Will they manage to fix their problems? I hope so.

[rodders]

Jeez - does this remind anyone else of watching Ireland play.

Unfortunately it looked uncannily like watching Ireland.

[Notch]

rodders, on the topic of ROG;

It's disconcerting O'Gara still has his cheerleaders in the media. Farrelly basically wrote that there was no way Ireland can beat New Zealand without him in the 22 the morning of the game yesterday

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/hugh-farrelly-ideal-time-to-take-on-the-men-in-black-3104686.html

There's a lot of fail in that article. This being a World Cup year, we are not battle hardened but battle weary. He can't have failed to miss Ferris limping around in the semi-final or Trimbles indifferent form for Ulster, whilst Healy and Ross are fading badly as a scrummaging force, O'Connell, Fitzgerald and Bowe all injured and ROG- well he may have done a volte-face on ROG after last night.

This summer tour is something we really, really don't need right now. We needed a nice easy tour to rest established and exhausted frontliners and bring through some hungry new caps.

And the All Blacks are laughing up their sleeves at the idea O'Gara- in this kind of form- is any kind of threat to them. They will eat him alive if he can't up his game.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Jeez - does this remind anyone else of watching Ireland play.

Unfortunately it looked uncannily like watching Ireland.

Those were the exact words that me and my brother said while watching the game! Depressing stuff.

[rodders]

Notch I couldn't believe it man, he was awful. He was about 5 metres behind the gainline and just launching attack after attack and the Ospreys were just lapping it up easily... they didn't even have to break a sweat in defence.

O'Gara is the best tactical kicker in the game and not once did he kick or try and pin the Ospreys back and put them under pressure. He just shipped everything to Mafi, Keatley and Earls. Tommy O'Donnell and POM had no chance as Ospreys were able to just isolate the attackers.

Maybe McGahan is to blame but its something I've noticed about ROG over the past few seasons and hes a liability when he plays like that.

Poor old Mafi was working his socks off to get Munster on the front foot.

Awful stuff.

[rodders]

It's just a fact that Leinster are the only team in Ireland who can play effective attacking rugby with the ball. Munster and Ireland are clueless.

Ulster are at least playing to their strengths, using their pack to create a platform and not overcomplicating things. Pienar controlling things with the boot and using Ferris carrying ability.

On this evidence Wales are leaving us behind in terms of physicality and the way they are playing the game.

[maestegmafia]

Looks like you guys have found a smart player in POM though... Really really impressive lad.

[rodders]

Individually Munster have quite a few very good players, young ones too.

As a team they have a lot of building to do and they need to find a game plan with the ball.

Attacking rugby is simple, its about getting across the gainline and generating quick ball. I can't understand professional, experienced sides who don't get this and Munster and Ireland don't seem to right now.

Even the all blacks kick slow ball away...Munster were a shambles last night.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Looks like you guys have found a smart player in POM though... Really really impressive lad.

As I said earlier, I think the irish backrow in the future could potentially be all Munster players. O'Callaghan, O'Donnell and O'Mahony look like a perfectly balanced and exciting backrow. Maybe a bit lightweight, but they are all very talented players.

[Rory_Gallagher]

O'Donnell IMO has to go to NZ as our 7 backup.

[Morgannwg]

People are being harsh on Munster. They'll be back next season. They might have a few aging players, but they still have a lot to offer the Province. I seen a few guys in your A team that you can promote.

[Rory_Gallagher]

They have talent Morgan, but honestly that is the worst I have ever seen them play. They played as individuals.

[Comfort]

Rory, after the claims you made about the welsh being ref-bashers etc, after watching munster being hammered 45-10, the first thing you come up with, 'OH THE REEFF',i couldn't help but laugh dude

POM was massive for munster.

Ospreys were undeniable, AWJ over-rated? Paul James showed Bath what they are getting next season. Dirksen really has something about him, if Fussell puts in another performance like that in the final, ill take back most of what I've said about him, most.

So Tandy turns the ospreys round with some very basic changes to their attacking game and gives them some real fire in their bellies.

The last 6 weeks is the most intense Ive seen the ospreys, no feet-draggers, Tandy's proved how bad Scott Johnson is. good luck scotland!

[Rory_Gallagher]

As I said though, I felt the ref gave more chances to Munster than to the Ospreys so it isn't an argument about bias. I just thought he pinged both teams way too early and was very very strict at the breakdown. Not sure that I like that really.

[Thomond]

Things looked good until ROG came on. He stands far too deep in attack and negates any quick ball, which doesn't happen a lot anyway, leaving Mafi and Earls to dig him out of holes that are pretty hard to get out of. Let's back Keatley or play Hanrahan because unless Penney can get ROG to take the finger out he is done.

Ospreys played very well but it was the most abject performance from Munster I have seen in my days following them. No "juice" or nothing, just completely flat and a lack of interest. Earls showed great work for Keatley's try and even an ability to run lines like a centre but was anonymous after that. Until ROG came on you could have seen Munster winning it. Lineout was a shambles, the timing of the throw and lift was poor, that's down to bad communication. I don't care how old he is, Stringer is needed to deliver quick ball and get Murray to not take that freaking step.

Munster played decent attacking rugby with Keatley at 10 and have played some good stuff with Deasy there too. It's with ROG that our attacking play turns to shoite.

[rodders]

Munster were terrible, theres nothing harsh about it. They were outsmarted and outmuscled.

They aren't physical enough, not committed enough and have no gameplan in attack.

They have good players but they need a real over hall in terms of their gameplan and they need to re find their old Munster spirit and fire because it isn't there right now.

[rodders]

Totally agree Thomond.

[Morgannwg]

Munster were terrible, theres nothing harsh about it. They were outsmarted and outmuscled.

They aren't physical enough, not committed enough and have no gameplan in attack.

They have good players but they need a real over hall in terms of their gameplan and they need to re find their old Munster spirit and fire because it isn't there right now.

They were awful for most of the game last night. But honestly, that's the only single time in my history of watching rugby I've seen a Munster team play that badly. Perhaps they needed a kick in the ass to set the foundations for being a better team next season. I also thought they were very impressive in the HC pool stages.

[Thomond]

Rodders, it's weird about the whole fire/passion/juice whatever you want to call it. It dragged them through the HC at tiems when they didn't deserve to win but it's been completely lacking since before the HC 1/4s. There's some talent there, TOD had an alright game, he got burned by Dirksen and should have tried to show the man outside and leave the guy inside for Zebo but it happens. Penney has work to do but it's more of an exploratory surgery as opposed to quadruple bypass surgery.

[rodders]

I think Munster 1st half of the season flattered them a bit. They weren't playing well but were getting big results in the HEC but this masked the underlying problems in the side... namely their attacking play or lack of it.

Its funny that they finally sorted out their scrum this season but the rest of the game has fallen apart.

They've been very unlucky with injury but fundimentally they don't have an effective game plan and frequently put themselves under pressure.

ROG has been fundimental to this by standing to deep and not reading the game well and Murray and TOL have both been poor, producing slow ball. Its a recipe for disaster and hopefully Penney will sort it out.

They've missed Howlett badly too and Jones has been a shadow of his self this season. David Wallace is a huge loss too and they still have no decent centre combination.

Coughlan, Mafi, POM, POC and Ryan have really tried hard but its been a very disappointing second half of the season for Munster.

[maestegmafia]

I was surprised to see how the Ospreys dismantled Munster's lineout. The O's have had a better scrum than Munster for a few seasons, but we always struggled in the lineout.

The Munster SA props weren't up to the job. You need some good young IQ players to fill the gaping void left by Horan, Flannery and Hayes.

[Comfort]

Gotta be fair I agree with a lot of the criticism of Rolland, he seems to be getting worse in each game he refs, still, reffing is a thankless task these days!

The Ospreys have flattered to deceive in nearly every season since their inception, so I'm not sure how to feel about the final yet, one swallow doesn't make a summer but they've been playing nice rugby for the last while.

Munster pulled out a performance the Ospreys usually keep hidden in their draw for when the pressures on.

Still, a lot of munsters bad performers last night are players who have massive potential (Sherry/Zebo for example) or known solid performers. It wasn't a typical Munster performance, they just seemed to have no drive or answer when the ospreys went up the gears. They are in a season of transition though, it was an interesting reminder of the 1 - 10 list Red Stag posted and the difference in the side tonight.

I don't see any real problems for munster in the future, they just need to expand (or find - depending on which way you look at it) an offensive game, having the 2 new centres will help, Casey can be electric in midfield. I wouldn't worry too much if I were a munster fan, although perhaps the usual dazzling highs are a season or 2 away.

[rodders]

Flannerys a big loss too.

Like you'd never see the likes of Flannery, Quinlan, Wallace etc. just drop their heads like that.

Munster didn't seem to be able to adapt and work out what the Ospreys were doing and change things.

If Munster had of used the boot to pin the Ospreys back with 15 min to go and there were 1 or 2 scores in it they may have turned things around but they kept throwing the ball around and getting turned over.

It was so un Munster like to panic and look so clueless. Munster have always been so good at winning but that seems gone now and there is a lack of leadership.

[Thomond]

I think Munster 1st half of the season flattered them a bit. They weren't playing well but were getting big results in the HEC but this masked the underlying problems in the side... namely their attacking play or lack of it.

Its funny that they finally sorted out their scrum this season but the rest of the game has fallen apart.

They've been very unlucky with injury but fundimentally they don't have an effective game plan and frequently put themselves under pressure.

ROG has been fundimental to this by standing to deep and not reading the game well and Murray and TOL have both been poor, producing slow ball. Its a recipe for disaster and hopefully Penney will sort it out.

They've missed Howlett badly too and Jones has been a shadow of his self this season. David Wallace is a huge loss too and they still have no decent centre combination.

Coughlan, Mafi, POM, POC and Ryan have really tried hard but its been a very disappointing second half of the season for Munster.

Part of ROGs shoiteness in the last season is him trying to prove he can do it like Sexton. He is failing miserably at it, he has some qualities that Sexton will never have and there are some facets he is better than Sexton in so I think he should stick to them.

I don't think the Musnter scrum were killed Maesteg. It wasn't great but I don't remember them giving up a lot of penalties or free kicks (I have tried to blank the game from my mind though)

[rodders]

Part of ROGs shoiteness in the last season is him trying to prove he can do it like Sexton. He is failing miserably at it, he has some qualities that Sexton will never have and there are some facets he is better than Sexton in so I think he should stick to them.

Totally agree. I've thought that for a while. ROG needs to go back to playing his own game and stop trying to prove hes something hes not. Same with Munster, they need to stop looking East and trying to outdo Leinster and go and find a way to play which is effective and suits their players.

[maestegmafia]

I don't think the Musnter scrum were killed Maesteg. It wasn't great but I don't remember them giving up a lot of penalties or free kicks (I have tried to blank the game from my mind though)

No, compared to previous games over the last few seasons Munster actually competed well at the scrums. But those two SA lads looked worn out quickly, there were a number of scrums in the second half where Botha hit the deck, and a re-scrum was called, he was only penalised once. Du Preez faired better, dropped once, but countered by earning a penalty out of Adam Jones.

But the line out...?

All your comments about ROG and his kicking game is understandable when Munster lacked their infamous lineout. In the old days ROG could hump the ball down field and even on opposition throw ins Munster were a massive threat. It was their weapon. Last night Munster lost several own throws to the Ospreys.


As said above in numerous posts there is so much promise within the Munster squad, it is a resurgent team. That backrow WILL be superb in a season, magnificent in two. Sherry looks to be a great player, I thought Keatley was impressive, Zebo is lightening, Earls picks lines in attack that caused the Ospreys fans to applaud last night, it was a work of art.

Not their night, but the future looks great for next season. Munster are one of the biggest clubs in the world, They will always be near the top.

[Sin é]

Part of ROGs shoiteness in the last season is him trying to prove he can do it like Sexton. He is failing miserably at it, he has some qualities that Sexton will never have and there are some facets he is better than Sexton in so I think he should stick to them.

I don't think the Musnter scrum were killed Maesteg. It wasn't great but I don't remember them giving up a lot of penalties or free kicks (I have tried to blank the game from my mind though)

Most of ROG's shoiteness this part of the season is the fact that he has hardly played since January (nursing Sexton through the 6Ns). The fact that he didn't start any games in the last few weeks and he was on the bench last night might suggest that he hasn't recovered from his leg injury which would be like a hooker trying to perform in the lineout with an injured shoulder for an outhalf to have a leg injury.

Anyway, well done Ospreys. Excellent and well deserved win. I'm pleased for Welsh regional rugby & the Rabo that they have made the final this year as it was looking grim for the Welsh regions.

[Thomond]

Sin, if you think ROG has been playing well for most of this season and last, you're deluded. He stands far too deep in attack and shifts the ball on. I know guys who have wanted him gone for 3 years and I have seen for the last year why. He offers little in attack for Munster and frankly our back play looks a lot better with other options.

[rodders]

Sin 2 drop goals and some supersub appearances for Ireland apart ROG has been shoite for 2 seasons.

The sooner the IRFU and the rest of Irish rugby wake up and accept he's had his day, like a few other guys, the sooner things will get back on track.

Unfortunately the pro ROG mafia have the world brainwashed into believing that ROG is still on top of his game and can do no wrong.

He's playing total shoite but hes so popular with the Irish public no one will come out and say it.

[maestegmafia]

As I said above, Keatley looks impressive, if Munster had not of lost Murphy they may well have faired better with Keatley's youthful enthusiasm and creativeness at ten.

[rodders]

They need to decide what they want to do, same as Ireland.

If they want to stick with ROG then they need to play a game that suits him. Kick to the corners and try and execute set plays of the set piece. Do Munster or Ireland have a setpiece strong enough to play that way? Not in my opinion no.

If however they, Munster and Ireland, want to play a faster pace, multphase game then they need to pick players at 10 who can the run the ball, stand flat and draw defenders and play a varied game.

It's not rocket science .

[Sin é]

Sin, if you think ROG has been playing well for most of this season and last, you're deluded. He stands far too deep in attack and shifts the ball on. I know guys who have wanted him gone for 3 years and I have seen for the last year why. He offers little in attack for Munster and frankly our back play looks a lot better with other options.

If ROG was so Poopie this season, how in the name of god did that rabble win 6 out of 6 in the Heineken Cup?

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