Wrestlemania Discussion - SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

First topic message reminder :

Wow! So that is Wrestlemania 27 done and dusted... a few thoughts for everyone to discuss:

Is it just me or does Vickie look like she's got the mumps?
Is the IC title that worthless now that it wasn't even on the main card?
Are the Corre going the same way as the New Nexus?
Rey v Cody was excellent
Edge v Del Rio first was a real curve ball but the result was confusing as I can't see where ADR's character will or can go from here
Punk v Orton was well done given that it was the likely conclusion - will Orton's (probably kayfabe) knee damage mean a spell out?
I would have preferred to see 888 have his hand drop three times rather than tap... it also felt like no more than trading finishers instead of building a match and as much tension
Lawler v Cole was as rudey poo as I was expecting though the DQ thing does allow Cole's character to maintain some face - that orange swimsuit was ridiculous though - it all went on a bit long imo
The ending to Cena v Miz felt a bit bizarre - is Rocky now looking to challenge for WWE title? Miz still feels like a bit part player in someone else's feud despite regaining title
The Rock's segments through the show were good and offered some nice light relief
Rock v Cena for Summerslam then?

King Beer wrote:After watching it i have decided that Snooki is a better wrestler than John Cena!

Fireman's Carry v The Cartwheel Flop of Death?... I think you have got it right there!

The move prior to the Cartwheel Flop of Death.... The Handspring Butt Splash of Doom was immense.

I thought the end was more suited to a poor episode of RAW. Cena looked like a man who wasn't happy about the ending to the mathc and so he sulked for the duration.

King Beer wrote:I thought the end was more suited to a poor episode of RAW. Cena looked like a man who wasn't happy about the ending to the mathc and so he sulked for the duration.

I am not sure if it was because he thought that it sucked or was peed that for once it wasn't the other guy putting him over at Mania... He seemed to rapidly disappear after the pinfall though maybe he was going under the ring to teach Hornswoggle some more rhymes. I am guessing that that is why they worked so well as a team at the Rumble!

Back to Cena though - in the WWE is he seen as a good team player being willing to put others over, or a bit of a whiny bitch?

I'm working in USA for 6 months so rather than paying the $55 for the event, I watched a (very dodgy) stream of it online so some things I missed. But on the plus side it ended at 10 pm my time so feel resreshed in work this morning.

First impressions, I went to bed feeling very disappointed last night. All titles were devalued in one night. The US, IC and tag titles not being on the show is appauling. Having the heavyweight title on first completely confirmed Smackdown as the Number 2 show. Without a clean finish in the WWE title match, the Miz does not look credible and I feel for the guy because he is working so hard and has improved ten fold since debuting. It also appears as though todays stars can't hang with those of the attitude era due to the Rock standing tall at the end of the show, which shouldn't have happened.

This may be controversial, but I find the Rock cringeworthy at times in this renaissance he is enjoying. Getting the crowd to say Yabba Dabba Doo and Fruity Pebbles (ouch) is lame. At least in Cena's promos, I felt he was speaking the truth in questioning Rock's dedication to the business. Cena is a guy I admire. He is not a technician like Bret Hart, or a great story teller like CM Punk. He is however more than average in the ring. I agree with the selling criticism, that is something he should have sorted by now. But the guy has put on lots of exciting matches over the years, the crowd are normally really into his matches with both cheering and booing (last night was quiet, think that was partly due to the HHH Taker match and Miz's relatively new status as a main eventer, plus also people waiting for the Rock's inevitable involvement).

For this angle to work, I now think Cena should go over the Rock, clean. So we have at the grandest stage, The Rock looking the strongest in the eye of the mainstream media, which will be good for business. At Summerslam or whenever it happens to be (hopefully MITB which I am going to ) have a really hard fought, cleanly contested fight with an exhausted Cena eventually prevailing, and having earned the Rock's respect. Have a mutual appreciation moment without it being too cheesy, maybe cena saluting the Rock and him responding by nodding his head. That will restore credibility to the stars of today, whilst still having the Rock remain strong.

On reflection after having slept on it, the rest of WM wasn't as disappointing as I first thought. Cody Rhodes has won me over (I never saw what the fuss was about before), Rey continues to show despite the hatred from the IWC he is a class performer, Punk as usual excellent,the timing of Orton was incredible, Michael Cole was excellent again, SCSA is always entertaining to me. And the spectacle of WM is just awesome. I second whoever said the video package guys did a great job, they seem to understand the storylines so well, they really should have creative input into the shows.

Regarding the HHH Taker match, I did enjoy it, and thought HHH should have ended the streak. I did feel however it was like a TNA match with finisher after finisher and no flow. I did like the story though that Taker's age is showing and HHH was his old 2002 ruthless self. Did Taker's swan dive remind anyone of WM 24 against HBK when he nearly killed himself?

All in all, I enjoyed the show for the entertainment aspect it brought. I couldn't have predicted half of what happened. I guess the key is where do WWE go from here, and I think 2011 is going to be an excellent year

PS. 606v2 is awesome! much better than 606 ever was. There are genuine debates here without the stupid stuff, most of which I felt left out of cos I didn't understand.

Great forum, kudos to the founders

Good review Animal...

Yeh i mentioned the production team. All the way through the build up they have done an incredible job and really should get more respect. We are quick to harp on about the negatives of the writers but are a little slow in showing appreciation in the areas that WWE are doing well in.

Ive been thinking about some of the decisions last night...i.e. del rio not getting the rub, Miz not looking strong (though the kick out from the AA was a little bit of a mark out moment) and ive come to a conclusion...

We have seen Vince etc pushing the youngsters alot more this year & I genuinly think that 4-5 months ago the plan was to use Mania as a platform to push them onto new things...however in the build up to Mania & in others pushes i.e. Kingston, Swagger etc I think maybe Vince was put off by the fans reaction. I think most would agree that whilst it was nice to see the young ones getting a push the overall crowd reaction and internet feeling is that alot of them are just not ready. I think Vince maybe felt that the connection is not quite their yet & for that reason decided to delay their inevitable push....Del Rio for instance has looked good and certainly has all the tools...however had Christian not been involved in the build im not sure the fans would have been all that hot on the feud. Then their is Miz...I personally love the guy & not in a 'small lycra pants kind of way'..however id be the first to admit that he isnt quite at the stage where he gets major major heat. Yes he is booed & gets a reaction but to the extent of a JBL title reign era or Jericho..simple answer no.

I do really want the WWE to pull their finger out and there is no doubt they are doing alot of things wrong but I also think that they realise they will have to be stuck in this transitional stage a little while longer yet. You only need to see the reaction (including from the youngsters) when SCSA & Rock came back to know that the current stars just dont do it like the old guys. And yes I know they have to be given the chance to move up to that level but you have to admit they still need to be reasonably close to having that kind of connection with the fans before you can pull the trigger on it!

theanimal316 wrote:o
Did Taker's swan dive remind anyone of WM 24 against HBK when he nearly killed himself?

Yes!! I winced when I saw it and honestly thought that 'Taker had broken his neck! great post by the way Animal; I don't agree with some of your points, but that's the fun of a knowledgeable wrestling forum, and exactly why 606v2 is such a great place to be!

JoshSansom wrote:
Back to Cena though - in the WWE is he seen as a good team player being willing to put others over, or a bit of a whiny bitch?

Good question. I'm not really sure what his "groggy" act last night was all about... reminded me in a weird kinda way of Shawn Michaels overselling all of Hogan's offence at Summerslam(?) a few years ago!

So it's the day after the night before and boy do I have a post Wrestlemania hangover.
Here's my take on last nights proceedings.

Dark Match
Well as it was a dark match I didn't get to see it. But from what should have been a match between Sheamus v Bryan for the US title quickly became something else.
It started off like that but due to the interference of the lumberjacks (isn't that the point of a lumberjack match???) it was suddenly changed mid match into a non title battle royale which Khali won. Seriously I know Khali sells WWE to India but reducing stars like Bryan, McIntyre, Bourne and Sheamus to bit parts in a dark match is shocking.

And now onto the televised bit.
Well firstly due to the removal of the US match this then resulted in a huge two title matches at Wrestlemania. Yes you heard that right, TWO title matches on the biggest night in WWE's calendar (of which both didn't get a new champion either). Intercontinental, tag, and diva titles didn’t get a mention.

The Rocks introduction
Looked nervous initially but quickly got into gear, set up the show really well, looks all good so far!

1st Match WHC Edge v ADR
The positives? Well Christian got airtime even if he was reduced to lackey. Brodus Clay looks immense and hopefully a star of the future. The match itself picked up as it went on and towards the end turned out ok, was it Mania level? No. It was pretty much the same as they've been dishing out on a weekly Smackdown with the added extra of a pointless destruction of ADR's car. What was the reason for this? Two faces without provocation destroy the crying heel's motor. I don't get it. ADR joins Sheamus & McIntyre in the race for Main event to jobber in fastest time possible.

2nd match Cody v Rey Rey
Cody comes out with a Phantom of the Opera style/AJ Styles hoodie get up, sells it well. Rey Rey comes out looking like a fat 5 year old going to a fancy dress costume. Seriously wtf was that about? Captain America? Without sounding stupid, isn't Rey from Mexico?
All in all though this for me was the sleeper match of the show, both guys put on a great show, Rey mistimed as usual but we'll let him off as for once he helps push Cody by laying down. Cody for me was easily a contender for wrestler of the night (oops sorry Vince, not allowed to call them that anymore, Superstar of the night) and I hope that from this he gets the push up to the top level that I frankly think he deserves.

Snoop Dogg segment
So is this part of the reason Daniel Bryan & Sheamus didn't get airtime? To quote the Miz, Really??
Starts off brightly with Regal doing a short rap, then goes downhill very quickly with Khali & Beth singing Summer Loving, Zack improves it with a nice cameo from Roddy Piper (how the show needed someone like a young Piper in it), then we're 'treated' to the dancing pecs of Chris Masters while Tatsu sang sings We will rock you, were WWE Creative on a night out with Jeff Hardy when they thought this up? Oh but to top it off Hornswoggle breaks his silence and does a rap.

3rd Match 8 man tag Corre v Kingston, Santino, Big Show & Kane
So Kane is face again? Anyone wish to shed a reason for this? Entrance of Santino was comedy, Kofi looked like he was off to an early 90's rave with his gear.
And here comes the Corre, set of guys that WWE obviously want to push, they've got the first NXT winner in it and the tag champs, this should be go...oh it's finished. Barrett joins the growing list of ME to jobber. Seems a recurring theme tonight.
This was not just the tag champs but the Intercontinental Champion lasting a minute and a half against two over the hill monsters, a comedy character and a botch machine. Way to push the next gen there Vince!

1st Backstage Rock segment
He seems to letch a little over Eve and then builds towards going on about an epic moment with the next person stood behind him, it obviously teases at Austin but they swerve it with Mae Young. Loved the phrase ‘divasaurus’ to describe her.
And then they hit the real deal.
Rock & Austin. 10 years on from their defining Mania 17 match. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t mark out a little for it but should a Wrestlemania 27 have one of its best moments being a reminisce between stars of yesteryear.

4th match Orton v Punk
The build up for this feud has IMO been one of Punk’s poorest in recent times, neither guy has seemed in the zone for it. Match as it goes was average to good, some nice spots but Orton really needs to learn how to sell an injury. Oh my knee I can’t walk, oh but the next minute I’m climbing the top turnbuckle, oh it hurts again I’ll have a rest, oh wait I can hit a RKO. Stupid Randall Stupid!

It was a shame Punk didn’t get any mic time IMO, of any of the current roster I’d have liked to have seen get into a trash talk battle backstage with the Rock it’d have been Punk.

2nd Backstage Rock segment
Yeah best to hit the 30x forward button on this one unless you’re a fan of strange little fellows who touch themselves in cinemas (and who isn’t?). Not what I wanted to see the Rock returning to and again it made me wonder how much Sheamus has irked people backstage not to deserve airtime over this.

HOF segment
Or as it should have been known, a few guys and HBK. I’m a big HBK mark but if they have a HOF then surely each person’s place in it is equal?

5th Match Cole v Lawler
Was it as bad as Bret v McMahon? No. It entertained in parts, Austin really looked like he was trying to mow down Swagger (oh another member of the main event to jobber club, reduced at parts to getting owned by Lawler), the bit when Cole’s face was slamming against the Cole Mine but how long was this match. It degenerated as expected into Stunners left right and centre including a random one for Booker T.
Oh and after drinking several beers Austin then proceeded to DRIVE up the ramp, surprised that isn’t get groups complaining like Cole’s fa**ot comment the other day.

6th Match Taker v HHH
Match of the night, match of the year. Entrance of the show for HHH.
Never been a HHH fan, in recent times I’ve called for Taker to call it a day. I in a million years did not think that the pair of them could have close to HBK’s match last year.
They did. A very different match due them both being heavyweights and Taker genuinely looked like he was taking one heck of a beating at times. Like most I suspended disbelief at Trips’s tombstone, I thought the stream was over, so a big big kudos to WWE for making me believe once again there. Nice selling of the injuries at the end too, a lot of people didn’t think it was a work.

7th match Snooki match
But in an instance Taker obviously wasn’t injured as out comes his wife without a care in the world, perhaps better card booking would have sold that hey Vince? Show Michelle concerned backstage and going off in an ambulance, being replaced by Kong? Naah.
This match should have been about Ziggler v Morrison, two guys who will be maineventers in the coming years for sure. Instead they barely got a look in while it was about Trish and then Snooki hitting a cartwheel elbow followed by a backflip splash, nice gymnastic ability for a fat orange midget.
8th Match Cena v Miz
I’m not a Cena hater. Pair him with someone who can work a match and he’s decent.
Pair him with someone who cannot though and it turns into this.
Cena cannot control a match, he needs someone who can change the tempo, mix it up and generally know what the crowd want leading him. Strong moment when the Miz kicks out of a very powerful AA but then it became hugely predictable on the double count-out. It builds for Cena v Rock to continue but in whole it was a huge letdown of a main event.

Overall
There were good points…honestly!

HHH proved the IWC wrong that he could still put on a show and did his best match in 10 years (since v Foley).
Cody Rhodes’s stock grows by the day.
The production team made some nice intro videos.
Austin meeting Rock.
Miz remaining champ.
Bad points
I’d struggle to list them all and would be better off just retyping my report. The two main ones though were:
The length of matches, really really shocking. 94 minutes of wrestling in 240 available is POOR.
The failure to push a lot of stars they’d thrown their weight behind of late. Sheamus, McIntyre, Bryan, Ziggler, Morrison, none of these benefitted in the slightest from Mania.

Final point
It wasn’t the worst Mania on record, that’s still Wrestlemania 9. But it’s possibly the worst of the modern era. It could have paved the way for the new generation yet they were often sidelined for gimmick matches or backstage segments.
Overall rating 5/10 (would have been lower apart from the HHH/Taker match).

Im new to this board , though i did have a 606 acount under the same name ( wasnt really a freqent poster, though always went on it to read the articles)

just thought id share my views on last nights wrestlemania. to save time im just going to concentrate on three matches, two of which i really enjoyed and one ( the main event) as it seems to have everyone talking and then just give a sort of round up of the rest of the card further down.

first of all the match of the night:



TRIPLE H VS UNDERTAKER

Fantastic match. First of all hhh's entrance was epic, coming out to 'for whome the bell tolls' by metallica. as for the action in the ring, i cant recall a match starting as quickly as this. infact within 5 minutes ( or so it felt) hhh had been backdropped off the anounce table, which looked really painful, and undertaker shoved through the cole mine. plus it didnt finish there, we had the spinebuster throught the announce table, which had the crowd chanting ''HOLY S%#@ , HOLY S%#@ !!''( rightfully so ) we had taker kicking out of three, yes THREE pedigrees. We got triple h kicking out from the chokeslame, the last ride and the tombstone. But the moment of the match was when hhh picked up undertaker and delivered the tombstone himself. I never saw that coming, as even when he had him up on his shoulders, i was so expecting undertaker to reverse. And when taker kicked out well... lets just say the ''THIS IS AWESOME!'' chants were well justified. The only thing i wasnt too sure on was having the match end with hells gate, mainly as i knew then that hhh was going to loose. I know people will say it was obvious from the start, but i dunno, the match really had me going that the upset was going to happen. to finish... GREAT MATCH, and although not as good as shawn/taker from WM25, i actually enjoyed it more than shawn/taker from WM26. Oh i almost forgot, J.R on commentary made this match so much more special. his reactions were priceless, pure emotion. Plus after the match was i the only one hoping for hhh to attack taker cementing a heel turn? well i could hope...

secondly the main event:

THE MIZ (C) VS JOHN CENA

This match was proof of two things in my oppinion... 1: John Cena is an aweful wrestler ( not that i didnt think that before but last night was a complete joke) and 2: The miz just isnt good enough to headline wrestlemania. YES, john cena was terrible, but miz wasnt much better. He seems to be trying to be a sort of chris jericho sort of heel, but he just aint good enough imo. As for the ending, i thought it was pretty good. Plus i dont see why evveryones complaining, seeing as most got what they wanted i.e miz retains and the rock screws cena. Plus the crowd reaction was off the chart when rock layed out cena.

JERRY LAWLER VS MICHEAL COLE

I missed the start of this match, though thought the ending was really entertaining. Only dissapointment is that Austin didnt give Cole the stunner, but he did give Booker t and Josh Mathews one each which i enjoyed as it meant J.R would be on commentary for the rest of the evening ( i hadnt seen the spoilers on the internet) I so wish the wwe could get austin back full time as the g.m like in 2003. where he would just randomely kick someones ass. Last night showed how he can get the crowd excited like no-one bar maybe the rock.



Two other good matches were CM PUNK VS RANDY ORTON and EDGE VS DEL RIO. Both matches were pretty solid, though really wanted Cm Punk to beat Orton, who i have to say in his face role is starting to become more Cena-like everyweek i.e not selling and burying people ( the new nexus)

the REY VS CODY RHODES was ok thought wasnt amazing imo, though dont really see what everyones going crazy about if im being brutally honest. only part that sticks out in my mind was the standing vertical suplex by cody on the second rope. That was impressive, held him up for what seemed a lifetime haha.

The matches not worth really mentioning are the 8 man tag, lasted about 3 minutes. Cant believe what they've done to Kane again. Gone from ''world champ/monster heel/man who buried the undertaker'' to complete ''joke/afterthought/jobber'' within a few months. I blame edge for completely burying the guy during there fued.

Oh and SNOOKI MANIA.... yer the less said the better

MY RATING

I have to say i really enjoyed this years Wrestlemania. Yes there a few parts that wernt so good ( snoop dogg promo ) but on the whole a really enjoyable show. i give it 8/10. if only they had a MITB, i probs would have givin it a 8.5-9/10.


before i finish, id like to give GOOD OLE J.R another mention. Really good to have him back on commentary/ really made the hhh/taker match and did his best to seem interested in the cena/miz match, which couldnt have been easy specialy when you consider he has to be rusty havig not properly commentated in such a long time. Quick question, does anyone know if this means hes back for good? I sure hope so

anways ... cheers for reading, and i look forwarrd to seeing what yoou think of my views.

Glad you disagree with some Cymru, that's why i love talking wrestling . I have a feeling that Raw tonight is going to be a great show and will really set the direction for the upcoming year, I can't predict whats going to happen. Do you guys have any suggestions as to the person Miz will likely face next? I can't see it being a rematch with Cena. Possibly Orton since he beat Punk cleanly, although Miz Orton has been done alot. Myabe a draft from Smackdown or even HHH?

I think that The Miz has ability though he has the same problem that Cena does. They have both been converted to wrestling and it is not in their blood to the same extent. As such they are not good at telling a story in the ring and dealing with the dynamics and changes of pace that should be there.

They need to be paired with people who can do this (either older guys like Triple H or someone like Punk). Together it doesn't work well.

Just an idea to throw out there and yes I know it won't happen and he is coming off a WM loss but, what about Punk attacking Miz allowing Miz to be more of a tweener character?

If Cena is tied up with Rock for a while there is no obvious face bar Orton

HHH will probably be thrown into it.

For me, i would chuck Bryan into the main event scene. He is obviously at a loose end after the US title loss to Sheamus, and given the previous history with The Miz it's a ready made storyline, it would avoid any more Cena v Miz, Orton v Miz matches, you could also chuck Punk in their but i have a feeling he will have a rematch with Orton.

It felt like it was missing, for me it felt like the whole show was building to Rock winning the title, i doubt he will be back for long and it would lack logic but it just felt like they were building to it, the crock at the end would have been acceptable if Rock won the title afterwords

I have a question for those who would have been happy for Rock winning the title last night,

Why would you be open to that idea? I'm not sure I understand that point of view.

I don't see how it is different than Hogan at WM9 and it says to the fans that the current guys can't compete with those from the Attitude Era. That idea would only sit well with me if Rock were to stick around for at least 6 months of a full time schedule.

I'm not going to write too much feedback about Mania as most of my thoughts have been covered by several people above. However main points -

When this whole transition period set in around WM24 where we started to have a lack of properly built up superstars and the same person with a different costume on, with little charisma, just be thrown into main events it all seemed a bit rushed and the fans didn't care for most of the matches. However I did enjoy WM24, it was the last WM I was glad I had paid for. WM25 then came with massive hype as it was the 25th anniversary (hmm really 24th) and it totally sucked imo apart from the obvious match and the same thing happened at 26 and it has happened again this year at 27, where HHH replaced HBK in facing Taker in the only match up that was class from start to finish. The obvious problem is the fans don't care for these new superstars like they did for the Angles, Rocks, Austins, Guerrero's, Benoits, Jericho's of the past. The main reason for this is the fans have no connection with the wrestler today at all - they have no personality like the guys mentioned before. I don't think they are all un-talented, they just aren't being built properly like they used to be.

Everything just seems to be chucked together now, a different guy gets a title shot every other month and then disapears into the wilderness. What the hell is the point in the Royal Rumble now? It gets built up to the max and you are meant to be in the main event at mania....not first on the card in one of the most rushed title matches in recent times.

I'm going off into a rant about different things now, so I will stop and conclude with -

Best parts of Mania - Rhodes beating that irritating midget (however, no doubt Rhodes will end up in a main event and then lose and get chucked back down to fighting dross on SD!)
HHH v Taker - every main match should have near falls and have the winner look like he bloody earned it at Mania. Why have Cena and Orton never grasped this? Sell the damn move and stay down on the damn mat!
Cena not winning the title was worth the dreadful ending


Bad parts - Too many filler matches and the fact they filled matches that didn't get the viewer gripped in to the action. I could have switched off WHC, Orton, Miz matches as they were so slow and dull.
This is a good part but it is in the bad parts as it should never be the case - The video segments before the matches were actually better than the match itself!
The crowd would have been as well not being there, again this is probably due to the lack of interest in the talent on the show.

Well if he won the title then going with what he has said in promos ect then it would be a clear indication he would hang around for a while, i also dont think its anything like Hogan at Mania 9, Hogans face character was well past it in the WWF in 93, the fans didn't want him, he wasn't truly motivated either and he refused to put the new top star over, Rock doesn't need to worry about his character and i doubt he would refuse to put someone over tho thats just my opinion

Good point Gaffer I do accept it is probably not a fair comparison since Rock is still crazy over with the fans

No mate it was a fair point you made, if Rock won it last night plenty of people would be compairing the two endings, i just don't personally agree

The best part was obviously Trish Stratus.

On a serious note, WWE match was pants. Miz has to defend his title clean soon or else he's gonna look weaker and weaker.

Orton's becoming the new Cena and being a face doesn't suit him. Punk is quality but is being made to look like a fool.

Cody Rhodes v Rey was a good match and I'm glad Cody was put over.

Can't say what's been already said about the Nexus match.

my Wrestlemania review...

JoshSansom wrote:

yarmouth blade wrote:ok what happened to the Shamus and db match were did that go?

Was held as a dark match under Lumberjack rules before descending into a battle royal apparently...

ok thanks mate

You Already Know That! wrote:The obvious problem is the fans don't care for these new superstars like they did for the Angles, Rocks, Austins, Guerrero's, Benoits, Jericho's of the past. The main reason for this is the fans have no connection with the wrestler today at all - they have no personality like the guys mentioned before. I don't think they are all un-talented, they just aren't being built properly like they used to be.

While I think you made some good points I would say that it is not a lack of personality that made these guys more popular but a career progression. Even dating back to guys like Shawn Michaels there was a slow career build up: European Title, IC Title, Tag Team reign etc before they reached main event status. For guys like Michaels, HHH, Rock, Edge, Guerrero, Benoit, Jericho it was 5+ years before they reached main event status. They had therefore built up a following, fans who cared about then, fans who had seen them try and fail before.

I don't see that in many of the current generation bar Miz who I think will go on to have a good career. The problem for him is that if he is the "new Rock" if you will where is the new Austin, or Undertaker, or HHH, or Michaels, or Mankind, or Kane etc.

Guys like Del Rio or Sheamus have been pushed to the very top before they have built any fan base meaning people don't care about them. It doesn't feel like as much of an achievement to see ADR in the WHC match as it would have for Eddie G given how he built himself up in the industry and company over a number of years.

This also means that when they are defeated and knocked back into the pack there isn't a strong fan base to catch them and bounce them back up.

They need more lesser singles titles and a better tag division to allow these guys to develop, then they may see people rise up to become true champions.

I agree with everything Josh said, too many guys have got the title with inadequate build up. The first I can think of is Brock Lesnar. Can anyone think of an example before that? I think a slow build up is how people can get super over, take Jeff Hardy for example. He had been with WWE for almost ten years before getting near the main event. And it paid off.
Of the newer superstars, I argee Miz's build up has been slow enough to allow him to yoyo up and down the card successfully. I also think the same for Morrison, once he is put in the main event.

theanimal316 wrote:Can anyone think of an example before that?

The Undertaker maybe? Though I wasn't following wrestling back then.

I don't think it is always necessary to give a long build up and with a Goldberg / Lesnar character it can work quite well. But they should be the exceptions, only done because of their monster heel look etc.

While you could argue for Sheamus in this mould there was no front man manager to work from to make things easier. Plus ADR isn't the right build or size to be able to pull it of. As a result the WHC match felt like an IC match.

I watched the replay this morning and Triple H's entrance no longer had Metallicas - "For Whom The Bell Tolls". Can someone explain?

AberdeenSteve wrote:I watched the replay this morning and Triple H's entrance no longer had Metallicas - "For Whom The Bell Tolls". Can someone explain?

Metallica played and then Triple H came out to Motorhead afterwards....

Del Rio v Edge (c) WHC:
Was shocked this was the opening match but both men enjoyed a fresh crowd as they made their way to the ring. Del Rio’s entrance was great, just as I’d hoped. The match itself was good; both men countered each other’s moves well. At one point I thought Edge was going to tap but his reversal was well executed. I expected more interference from Brodus and Christian although their outside altercation was entertaining. The final spear that won the match was performed fantastically, it looks much more impactful when it comes from out of nowhere and Del Rio sold it well: all in all a solid WHC match and nice way to open the card. Unfortunately the incidents after the match made no sense to me – why would Christian and Edge, (the two faces) vandalise Del Rio’s car? It was a very tweener thing to do and one which just seemed out of place after the match. It soured the result of the match for me slightly. 3/5

8 Man Tag Match – Corre v Kane/Big Show/Santino/Kingston
The word squash match has never been more appropriate! I was very surprised this match was over so quickly – Kane, Barrett, Gabriel, Big Zeke and Kingston didn’t even get involved legally in the match. It just made me wonder why it was on the card in the first place and made the Corre look extremely weak. 1/5

Rey Mysterio v Cody Rhodes:
This match not only lived up to my expectations but it surpassed it. Cody played his character perfectly. This match had a great pace to it, good ring psychology, lots of reversals and spots – my particular favourite was Cody’s suspended superplex on Rey. In the end I thought it had the right result and was happy to see Rey put over Cody; definitely one of the highlights of the night. 4/5


Randy Orton v CM Punk:
A fantastic match from start to finish – Randy sold his injury well; CM Punk was superb as usual and did an excellent job working the crowd. For me this match was a good length – not too short and not too long, it didn’t drag and just like the Rey/Cody match had good pace. The move set was what I would expect from a Mania worthy match and thought Punk’s counters to the RKO were brilliant. In the end I expected Orton to win but wanted a spectacular RKO and the match delivered. I was very satisfied with this match and overall thought both Punk’s and Rey’s matches this year were better than theirs last year (which is no criticism). 4/5

Lawler v Cole w/Swagger Guest Ref SCSA:
SCSA’s entrance was great, naturally he overshadowed the participants. It was great to hear JR on commentary and Cole’s face getting squashed against the wall of his booth was very funny. Overall though this match went on too long for what it was and although the Stunner on Swagger was predictable I thought it made him look weak. The GM’s overruling and the Stunner on Booker T spoilt the match for me. 2/5

HHH v Taker:
HHH entrance was more impressive than I thought it was going to be and I thought that the match got off to an intense start. Some good hardcore moments outside the ring to begin with, I particularly liked HHH taking the backdrop off of the announce desk and Taker getting spinebustered through the Spanish announce desk. Throughout the match there were some great spots and both men took some bumps; I wasn’t expecting Taker to Last Ride HHH but it was very impressive and both men kicked out of their finishers just enough times to make it an edge of your seat type of match. Both men sold their fatigue well and HHH’s repeated chair shots to Taker reinforced his ‘remorseless’ image. The highlight of the match for me was definitely HHH Tombstoning Taker; it was the only real mark out moment for me. In the end though I was left slightly disappointed with the result – I would have been perfectly happy with HHH falling unconscious to the Hell’s Gate sub but having him tap made him look weak(er). I also thought that some of the psychology was wrong – HHH showed Taker too much respect at times and contradicted the commentator’s efforts to portray him as remorseless. Yet in the end despite HHH nearly passing unconscious Taker seemed to come off worse. This seemed strange to me – if it was kayfabe (which I suspect it was) why portray Taker as so weak? The Streak really can’t go on for too much longer with Taker unable to finish looking strong. But despite my gripes with the ending this match was very, very good. 4/5


Team Snooki v Team Flawless
Three words: waste.of.time.
1/5

John Cena v Miz (c) WWE title:
The vignettes for both men were well put together and tastefully done; I enjoyed them very much. The match itself wasn’t bad except Cena’s typical overselling. I thought the Miz looked impressive at times, especially kicking out of the AA. If I wasn’t mistaken Cena got a lot of heat from the crowd, the boos sounded louder than the cheers. It seemed obvious to me that they need to turn Cena’s character soon judging from his recent fan reaction. I thought the Miz ripping the padding off of the turnbuckle was a little premature and smacked of him doing something ‘heelish’ just to try and get heat. When the match finished in a double count out and draw I knew the Rock would turn up to end the night on a high and as soon as he sanctioned a no DQ match I knew what was coming. Despite the predictability of his actions against Cena I was just happy Cena lost – Miz needed to win. Frustratingly though the Rock then made Miz look weak when I think they should have had Rock walk away with Miz standing tall, albeit confused. 3/5

Summary:
This Mania for me was a Mania of highs and lows in a very bipolar way. The PPV wasn’t mediocre anywhere – it was either fantastic or awful. The matches I was looking forward to most delivered on one level or another, so in that respect I have no complaints. Yet on another level there were so many disappointing moments. There were definitely a lot of Mania worthy moments and on the whole the card was strong. However the ending of the Taker match jarred with me and the Rock making the Miz look weak annoyed me. I would say on the whole this Mania was better than Mania 26 only for virtue of the best moments being better than those of 26 (bar the HBK retirement match), but it still had a lot of ‘filler’ moments, which I think weren’t needed.

Below is the review I posted to Pro Wrestling Torch. At the bottom I have added a couple of extra notes...

"3.5/10. WWE has managed over the last couple of years to consistently produce decent to good PPVs, despite some very short-term, self-defeatist booking with zero evidence of any kind of bigger picture, a failure to really get behind any genuine new stars, and a greater emphasis than ever before on 'entertainment' over wrestling. Wrestlemania 27 felt like the night all those mistakes came back to haunt them.

The fact is that only the most staunch apologist could seriously claim that the crowd was anything other than zombie-like, that Jim Ross sounded anything other than disinterested on his grand return to the commentary desk, or that Triple H and Undertaker rescued the show with a bag of tricks match that would have Jeff Jarrett hung, drawn and quartered. And what was up with Cena? I was having Jeff Hardy flashbacks watching him stumble around and blow spots. Cole vs Lawler was dreadful, and about ten minutes too long. If Lawler had been given any mic time in the last month he might have actually been over, but instead the crowd just sat there waiting for the next stunner. Seriously, Sheamus against Bryan was bumped because they needed 20-plus minutes for that segment?! Last year I said the event missed JR; he added absolutely nothing this year. It may have been the biggest disappointment of all. He sounded like he was recording commentary for a video game!

I felt the WWE title match needed to deliver big time if it was to save this event. It bombed. Cena was particularly dreadful, but this match just had no intensity to it at all. I felt sorry for The Miz, who finally made it to the main event of Wrestlemania, against all the odds, only to find himself facing an impossible task. It did not feel like a WWE title match; it barely felt like a TV main event. The ending was awful. I went into this event feeling that if The Rock cost Cena the strap I'd be happy, but it wasn't even satisfying to watch that unfold. Just a terrible main event and terrible ending for the biggest show of the year. I don't blame the fans for not caring.

WWE needs to properly address its flaws. They can bring back whoever they want but the problem is a philosophical and promotional one. My 3.5 is for the efforts of those talented, fresh, young wrestlers who are the only hope for this company's future, yet found themselves in completely irrelevant matches on a card that was supposed to showcase the next wave of stars. I wouldn't go as far as saying this was the worst Wrestlemania ever, but it was the worst in a long, long time."

Additional thoughts:
- I didn't think 888-Taker was an awful match, but my feelings are that WWE could pretty much have said to anyone "you've got 30 minutes, you can destroy the ringside area all you want, and you can kick out each other's finishes four times" and it would have been a decent match. In fact if Daniel Bryan and Sheamus or CM Punk and Orton had been given that kind of license, I think they'd have done it a hell of a lot better. I didn't think it was epic at all; it just seemed epic because they used every short cut in the book to create drama. I thought it was paced terribly, and it was obvious how out of shape they both were from the constant formula of "finisher, kickout, lie down for a minute". If you have to kill yourself to have a three-star match, it's time to quit.

- I'm bored of The Rock already. I'm sick of him sucking up to the crowd, and I don't like that a guy who hasn't wrestled in seven years was able to beat up the two combatants in the main event world title match at Wrestlemania. The Rock Bottom didn't even look painful and yet it knocked Cena out for the rest of the show!

- Has WWE given up on Del Rio? It seemed weird to have Edge escape his finisher twice and then win clean. Also I can't say I had any enjoyment from watching Edge and Christian vandalise a beautiful car, although if it helps flesh out Del Rio's character that's probably a good thing.

after reading reports that Taker could have been legitimately injured then my opinion of the ending to his match is slightly changed. If he indeed did suffer real injuries during the match then the stretcher was completely justified. However this just goes to show what kind of state the UnderTaker is in. How can he legitimately be billed as the Phenom when he is so prone to injury? The match was excellent and I am not taking anything away from his performance - he took some awesome bumps and I know not every mania match will be no holds barred. Nevertheless next year has to be the last year he can credibly defend his streak after coming so close to losing it 3 years in a row.

I still think it's legit injured because you can see HHH clearly tries to help him when he stacks it.

I thought the announce team did a very poor job of selling it, i don't recall JR using the word 'hellacious'.

As for the state of 'Taker and how close it's been pushed i actually think it's a brilliant way of selling 'Taker and the Streak. People are genuinely starting to believe the streak could go and the more and more beatings he takes only goes to emphasise how important it is, and the lengths people will go to get it.

I know people thought it was weak HHH tapping out but i thought it was done very well. He struggled for what seemed like eternity and the tap was very weak and subtle like he'd done everything he could.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:Below is the review I posted to Pro Wrestling Torch. At the bottom I have - I didn't think 888-Taker was an awful match, but my feelings are that WWE could pretty much have said to anyone "you've got 30 minutes, you can destroy the ringside area all you want, and you can kick out each other's finishes four times" and it would have been a decent match. In fact if Daniel Bryan and Sheamus or CM Punk and Orton had been given that kind of license, I think they'd have done it a hell of a lot better. I didn't think it was epic at all; it just seemed epic because they used every short cut in the book to create drama. I thought it was paced terribly, and it was obvious how out of shape they both were from the constant formula of "finisher, kickout, lie down for a minute". If you have to kill yourself to have a three-star match, it's time to quit.

Said something similar yesterday. I was left quite underwhelmed by the 'taker/HHH match. My mate, who watched the matched it with me felt the same.

liverbnz wrote:Reports saying there were no major injuries from last night. 'taker was just selling the beating he took. I wasn't that impressed with their match to be honest. They went too hard too early and then the match slowed way down to a standstill at times. I appreciate the story they were telling, I just think it could have been executed a bit better. I thought it was lazy booking if I'm being honest.

I was actually expecting a lot of criticism for this match upon awakening yesterday morning. Was really surprised to see it received so well from all corners

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talkingpoint wrote:after reading reports that Taker could have been legitimately injured then my opinion of the ending to his match is slightly changed. If he indeed did suffer real injuries during the match then the stretcher was completely justified. However this just goes to show what kind of state the UnderTaker is in. How can he legitimately be billed as the Phenom when he is so prone to injury? The match was excellent and I am not taking anything away from his performance - he took some awesome bumps and I know not every mania match will be no holds barred. Nevertheless next year has to be the last year he can credibly defend his streak after coming so close to losing it 3 years in a row.

Is he still billed as the Phenom? I thought he was the last outlaw now, and regardless his injuries are rarely mentioned on screen as far as I'm aware.

AberdeenSteve wrote:I watched the replay this morning and Triple H's entrance no longer had Metallicas - "For Whom The Bell Tolls". Can someone explain?

WWE probably only paid the royalty for the 1 live airing of the song. If Metallica had have played on the show, that would have been a different matter.

I don't remember JR saying "Slobber-Knocker" either. Sad face.

David Tails wrote:I don't remember JR saying "Slobber-Knocker" either. Sad face.

He didn't seem to have much enthusiasm and that carried on to Raw as well...

I tell you something, i prefer JR to commentate over Michael Cole any day of the week.