Always Look On The Bright Side

With that in mind what are the positives to take from Madrid?

Federer got a nice shiny trophy... well not exactly a trophy and not exactly nice but he won so that should quieten those that think he should retire...

Those that love blue must be happy.

Those that dislike claycourt tennis must be happy

Everyones favourite ex 606v2 poster must be very, very happy. I can sort of imagine he has spent the last 24 hours partying and maybe even jumping on top of a few cars outside hotels in Madrid...

laverfan was able to see the ball on her antique, smoke driven laptop.

Andy Murray was prompted to make one of his wonderful quotes (This was good news for me as I am compiling a book of his quotes with a working title of Murray - A Philosophy)

Rafa and Nole are best of friends again. There is nothing like having a common enemy for bonding a friendship.

My own personal favourite Tiriac got jeered and whistled at by an angry Spanish crowd.

Do all these positives make up for what was the big negative (for me anyway)? I was really looking forward to this claycourt season for so many reasons but now with all the asterisks that keep popping up it's difficult to see exactly what's happening even with a super, high definition screen...

hawkeye wrote: but now with all the asterisks that keep popping up it's difficult to see exactly what's happening even with a super, high definition screen...

If that's representative of what a lot of people are thinking it's mission accomplished for teams Djoko and Nadal. Rather than express reservations about the surface publicly and rage at the organisers privately, they prefer the short-term and disrespectful expedient of junking the competition publicly in the hope that not only will their acolytes agree that it's irrelevant, but so too might others.

I'm intrigued as to what asterisks affected MC and Barcelona?

barrystar

You have not been paying attention! In Monte Carlo Djokovic was not mentally present and Federer was not present. In Barcelona neither Djokovic or Federer were present.

hawkeye wrote:barrystar

You have not been paying attention! In Monte Carlo Djokovic was not mentally present and Federer was not present. In Barcelona neither Djokovic or Federer were present.

That's pretty much been the same for a couple of years now. Since MC was down-graded from a compulsory 1,000 it's been something of a poor relation and Barcelona has always been a "Nadal-only" stamping ground.

I much preferred it when they had Hamburg in there...Madrid feels to have no cache/prestige to it at all and the change of speed between MC and Rome is just silly, whats the point of having to adapt so quickly from Madrid to Rome when they're back to back?

Maybe the ballgirls/models will be painted blue next year too, like the BlueMan Group.

Well barrystar, I can't speak for MC and Barcelona myself, but it's a little known fact that Pat Cash's 1987 Wimbledon victory has forever been asterisked.

And why so, I hear you ask .... ??

Well it so happened that on the day of the Final they had, tragically, run out of Strawberries and Cream in the tented village. This led to a lot of unease for spectators ; and their evident displeasure in turn had the vicarious effect of unsettling Ivan Lendl, who sadly went on to lose.

Not many people know that !

barrystar wrote:

hawkeye wrote:barrystar

You have not been paying attention! In Monte Carlo Djokovic was not mentally present and Federer was not present. In Barcelona neither Djokovic or Federer were present.

That's pretty much been the same for a couple of years now. Since MC was down-graded from a compulsory 1,000 it's been something of a poor relation and Barcelona has always been a "Nadal-only" stamping ground.

See! A few minutes ago you didn't think there were any asterisks attached to Barcelona and Monte Carlo and now you've managed to find some yourself. I did say they keep popping up everwhere...

I'd heard that Lendl was overly distracted by Cash's beauty spot and Karate Kid headband.

Only in the third set. It somehow began to annoy him by then.

hawkeye wrote:

barrystar wrote:

hawkeye wrote:barrystar

You have not been paying attention! In Monte Carlo Djokovic was not mentally present and Federer was not present. In Barcelona neither Djokovic or Federer were present.

That's pretty much been the same for a couple of years now. Since MC was down-graded from a compulsory 1,000 it's been something of a poor relation and Barcelona has always been a "Nadal-only" stamping ground.

See! A few minutes ago you didn't think there were any asterisks attached to Barcelona and Monte Carlo and now you've managed to find some yourself. I did say they keep popping up everwhere...

I was wondering what is supposed to have made this year, 2012, so different compared to other years and I think that the answer is not a great deal. It's far easier to put 'faux' uniformity onto the clay season results after RG than whilst the season is going on. The clay season this year so far is not hugely different to 2008.

Two players who like to attack were in the final.

Makes a change really.

The surface definitely made a change!
(Berdy probably made his first and last ATP clay final courtesy of the bizarre conditions in Madrid circa 2012 - if this is how clay should be then lets carpet the lot and coin the new player phrase "carpetcourter")

I see a big fat ass terisk.

Going by that logic Lydian, Federer should have not made the final as he has been winning tournaments on pretty slow surfaces throughout his career..

Looking forward to an asterikless Rome.

Watching the final yesterday Im sure it never escaped your notice that Federer was less than happy at the back of the court. In fact, he nearly went base over apex on a couple of occasions. Had Birdbrain kept his head and won that match ,as he should have done had he not done what he does best and choked big time, would Federer have been so accepting of the conditions on that court being deprived of that fantastic trophy ?(what the hell is that anyway) and his No.2. slot I think there may have been a different headline in the press this morning ;)

lydian wrote:The surface definitely made a change!
(Berdy probably made his first and last ATP clay final courtesy of the bizarre conditions in Madrid circa 2012 - if this is how clay should be then lets carpet the lot and coin the new player phrase "carpetcourter")

Berdych's appearance in the final is not that weird - he made the MC SF this year and the RG SF in 2010, he has clay titles and finals to his name. Fed can play on the dirt too...

Of course, I accept that the surface was quick and slippery and it was responsible for Nadal and Djoko deciding not to go all out and that has certainly affected the way the draw developed, but you can hardly say that the other results were outlandish for a clay tournament. Most of the usual clay suspects did OK.

As far as Fed's attitude - he has certainly been critical of the surface, and I suspect he will have told the organisers in no uncertain terms that this must not happen again. I imagine that his input will have been just as persuasive as anything Nadal and Djoko have said publicly, not least because he has not put Tiriac to the trouble of feeling the need to diss him publicly. I'm sure he wants to support the tournament but not the way that it was conducted this year.

Haddie dunno where you get the idea from that Berdych deserved to win, look at the match stats properly you will notice Federer won more overall points, had more break point opportunities, won more first serve points.

Berdych would have beaten Nadal in that form so congrats Rogi.

Thats your opinion JM and one that I would have expected from you. I have not the slightest problem with that but it does not change mine

Andy Murray was prompted to make one of his wonderful quotes (This was good news for me as I am compiling a book of his quotes with a working title of Murray - A Philosophy)

-------------

Why "Murray - A philosophy"? This would indicate that the book is introspective and deep.

Why not "Murrayballs" or "Murray's mental mutterings"?. You seem to record every word of his like as if his utterances are your fuel for life.

barrystar wrote:

lydian wrote:The surface definitely made a change!
(Berdy probably made his first and last ATP clay final courtesy of the bizarre conditions in Madrid circa 2012 - if this is how clay should be then lets carpet the lot and coin the new player phrase "carpetcourter")

Berdych's appearance in the final is not that weird - he made the MC SF this year and the RG SF in 2010, he has clay titles and finals to his name. Fed can play on the dirt too...

Of course, I accept that the surface was quick and slippery and it was responsible for Nadal and Djoko deciding not to go all out and that has certainly affected the way the draw developed, but you can hardly say that the other results were outlandish for a clay tournament. Most of the usual clay suspects did OK.

As far as Fed's attitude - he has certainly been critical of the surface, and I suspect he will have told the organisers in no uncertain terms that this must not happen again. I imagine that his input will have been just as persuasive as anything Nadal and Djoko have said publicly, not least because he has not put Tiriac to the trouble of feeling the need to diss him publicly. I'm sure he wants to support the tournament but not the way that it was conducted this year.

Far more persuasive I'd imagine, for the reasons you outline.

My point was merely to comment that Berdy has not been a feature in clay Masters finals of late...hence the surface undoutedly helped him given the weight of his game and he's a 6'5' guy. Big guys like him dont tend to dominate on clay and that RG semifinal was some long time ago and an anomaly...his results before and since were nearly always a loss in R1/R2, and in 2010 he faced Aguilar, Roger-Vesselin, Isner, Murray, and Youhnzy to get to the SF - hardly a set of clay illuminaries. My point isnt a negative against him per se, just a reality of him liking faster conditions and thats what he got at Madrid this year. I also agree to an extent that Berdy was his own worst enemy yesterday, choking at key games/moments, DFs, etc. But Federer did play very well no doubt.

Look, my tongue in cheek comment is to reflect that surely we dont want clay courts being this fast? I'm all for fast courts and more variety (have said this many times now) as my S&V comments on the other thread allude to. However, we shouldnt turn what should an inherently slow surfaces into carpet-like conditions. The problem with speed lies elsewhere, not on clay.

lydian wrote:My point was merely to comment that Berdy has not been a feature in clay Masters finals of late...hence the surface undoutedly helped him given the weight of his game and he's a 6'5' guy. Big guys like him dont tend to dominate on clay and that RG semifinal was a long time ago and an anomaly...his results before and since were nearly always a loss in R1/R2. My point isnt a negative against per se, just a reality of him liking faster conditions and thats what he got at Madrid this year. I also agree to an extent that Berdy was his own worst enemy yesterday, choking at key games/moments, DFs, etc. But Federer did play very well no doubt.

Look, my tongue in cheek comment is to reflect that surely we dont want clay courts being this fast? I'm all for fast courts and more variety (have said this many times now) as my S&V comments on the other thread allude to. However, we shouldnt turn what should an inherently slow surfaces into carpet-like conditions. The problem with speed lies elsewhere, not on clay.

I don't really diagree with what you say - my comments were devoted to what I think is the boredom of trying to 'asterisk' tournaments. Nadal and Djoko could no doubt have progressed further if they really wanted to, but they decided not to risk it given that Rome and RG lie ahead - Fed said he understood their criticisms. My criticism of them is that they publicly threatened not to go back, not that they criticised the surface.

I agree that clay is not supposed to be a fast surface, although clay is not all about speed of surface, it's also about how the player moves and slides on the surface. I have found the recent RG's a v. good balance and I think that the overall conditions are faster than they used to be because of the balls (correct me if I am wrong).