Who is the worst professional player you've ever seen?

First topic message reminder :

Whilst commenting on another thread about Aussie call-ups for the upcoming Wales tour, I stated that Tom Carter was one of the worst players that I have ever seen...this thought got me in to many a conversations through the day (many mates agreeing with Carter, all mainly Waratah fans) and I was thinking of who else I felt was pants...

So...

Tom Carter
Matt Cardey
Derwyn Jones

So, who are yours? Who are the players that you dreaded seeing in your team's lineup? Or who are the one's you were over the moon with seeing in the opposition's?

Who has been the worst professional rugby player you've ever seen?

I think I may have forgotten this guys name on purpose, but something Jones-Hughes, was truely awful for Munster.

Someone mentioned Andy Goode above, which is pretty harsh in my view, but I do think he is one of the 'least likely' professionals, if you get me. He has the gut that an amateur era prop would be proud of, no real pace to speak of, can be excellent or awful off the ground, but he does have a good boot out of hand. He is does still read the game pretty well though, and at Leicester his mind made up for the bits his body couldn't do.

I suppose the point im trying to make is that watching him start and win things with a club like Leicester and get more than a mere hadnful of England caos gives the slow/lazy/beer gutted types like me hope. So, thanks Andy, you're a goode'un.

Simon Mannix, Shayne Philpott, Mark Carter are in a class of their own.

Liam Messam, Sione Lauaki are examples of players who promised so much and gave so little.

Todd Blackadder and Reuben Thorne made you think is this really all we have and I'm a Cantab. And they were captains to make it worse.

Finally Stephen Donald is a World Cup winning legend. Proof that the argument that you can't be considered a great player until you have a World Cup medal is pure fallacy. Christian Cullen is just a bog-standard fullback who didn't achieve in the game. Is he f...

I think Andy Goode actually brought a lot to Leicester and in fact he was a gifted footballer all round - A Case of getting the best in a particular game plan

To Goode's credit, Tigers had plenty of players try and fill Goode's boots and many failed. Houghaard, Pez, Staunton, Humphreys and many others.

I always thought Goode was better than he got credit for. He was a well rounded player.

...both in technique and waist size.

RubyGuby wrote:I think Andy Goode actually brought a lot to Leicester and in fact he was a gifted footballer all round - A Case of getting the best in a particular game plan

Goode just looked like a guy playing for the local pub team and i think thats what people think when they see him. He was a very very accomplished 10 and one that i used to rate highly.

I always rated him highly too, he may be past it now but he was very good for Tigers. He was second highest points scorer in the French Top 14 one year and went off to play for the Natal Sharks. Thats not bad going at all especially with 18 international caps.

He was a good club player. I remember he was especially good at the chip ahead with a winger running onto it (think Sackey got tries against both Ireland and Wales from this move).

+1 Staggy

Superb club player. Didnt always turn it on for England but for the Tigers, he was bang on the money.

Jason Jones-hughes anyone?

Partnered with Andy Marinos?

I tell you what the last few performances of dan Parks for the Blues were trully woefull, no quality, no heart, no interest and no idea!!!

Wasn't parks Rabo record points scorer? Can't be that bad. Cardiff haven't been great all round to be fair. Though with a few tweaks they could be a pretty tasty side.

Dan Parks.

Mickado wrote:The title is “worst pro player”, not worst international player. So I’d go for someone like Juan Gomez. A shockingly poor player at Leinster, last time I saw him he was being pushed around Tallaght stadium for the Argie Jaguars by Brett Wilkinson.

Wine Gums came to Leeds via Stade Francais his fitness improved as did his scrummaging and became a solid Tighthead now playing for an Argy side in SAF. His fellow country man Octavio Bartolucci was poor he was a 6.4 Winger that when he ran his legs went 4 different directions, he was rugby Carlton Palmer.

Blues - Sam Norton Sh*te

Wales - Robin Sowden Taylor was pretty awful - desperation to replace Martyn back then.

I think Saia Fainga'a is the worst player with an international cap. He's a hooker who cant scrummage, throw tackle or make decent enough turnovers. He's useless as a forward and epitomises Australia's lack of scrum.

Comfort wrote:Jason Jones-hughes anyone?

YES! What a waste of a place on the national team he was! There was some serious barrell scraping going on there...

At the moment, I'm none too fussed on Fotuali'i at the Ospreys. I've only seen one good performance from him since he's been there. Still, there's time for improvement... Fussell's a bit hit-and-miss as well.

Cari wrote:

Comfort wrote:Jason Jones-hughes anyone?

YES! What a waste of a place on the national team he was! There was some serious barrell scraping going on there...

At the moment, I'm none too fussed on Fotuali'i at the Ospreys. I've only seen one good performance from him since he's been there. Still, there's time for improvement... Fussell's a bit hit-and-miss as well.

Fotuali'i has been poor for most of the season, but to be fair, he has improved recently - but why Rhys Webb is not first choice I have no idea.

In any case, surely George Stowers is a better example from the Ospreys - A hopeless signing who has been displaced by Bearman, who is not even playing that well.

Rhys Webb can do better and he's still inexperienced. He has the odd moment, but he's still maturing, he's only young. Fotuali'i has been capped for Samoa and played with the Crusaders. Agree with the Stowers example, although I think he's been injured (don't quote me on that though...)

Oh this is going to be fun...

Scoped wrote:I think Saia Fainga'a is the worst player with an international cap. He's a hooker who cant scrummage, throw tackle or make decent enough turnovers. He's useless as a forward and epitomises Australia's lack of scrum.

On that Point you might as well say any Aussie Prop over last 10 years

Fetu Vainakolo
Connaught is welcome to the winger who
is more likely to lose the ball over tryline than dot it down.
Fetu. you got my vote!

For Tigers I'd say Rod Kaffer or Ramiro Pez. Both stank of P#*s.

Rod Kafer won super 15 titles and a Heineken cup. Can't be that bad.

Cari wrote:Rhys Webb can do better and he's still inexperienced. He has the odd moment, but he's still maturing, he's only young. Fotuali'i has been capped for Samoa and played with the Crusaders. Agree with the Stowers example, although I think he's been injured (don't quote me on that though...)

Last year most NZers were gutted Fotuali'i had been let slip (he only opted for Samoa after missing ABs selection in 2010) and Andy Ellis was only starting ahead of him for the Crusaders because the ABs selectors insisted. I suspect that playing over a year without a break has hurt his form.

I think Brad Thorn is one of the most professional players in the modern game. He is meticulous in his preparation and always does the proper work before and after the game to keep his body in top shape.

For my mind, on reflection, the worst professional player is not the player who does not possess much ability or even the one who is psychologically frail as really it's difficult to improve out of sight in those two areas. The worst professional is someone who has the talent but then is not prepared to do the time off the field as well as on the field, whether that be on the training field, in the gym or your habits outside the game. So Caucau springs to mind who had all the talent in the world but not the discipline or application to make the best of that talent. That's much worse than somebody who never really made the grade as a player or just couldn't make the step up from club rugby to international rugby.

tigerleghorn wrote:For Tigers I'd say Rod Kaffer or Ramiro Pez. Both stank of P#*s.

Kafer was poor for us certainly. Pez though was in a league of his own, truly dreadfull.

Kiwireddevil wrote:

Cari wrote:Rhys Webb can do better and he's still inexperienced. He has the odd moment, but he's still maturing, he's only young. Fotuali'i has been capped for Samoa and played with the Crusaders. Agree with the Stowers example, although I think he's been injured (don't quote me on that though...)

Last year most NZers were gutted Fotuali'i had been let slip (he only opted for Samoa after missing ABs selection in 2010) and Andy Ellis was only s
.tarting ahead of him for the Crusaders because the ABs selectors insisted. I suspect that playing over a year without a break has hurt his form.

Ah, didn't know that about him. Thanks for the info.

for me would have to garrin evens llanelli and scarlets total waste of space would not put him on a park pitch. coach gareth jenkins another waste .

john yap and norton night players with dai young coach all from the blues all total crap

SNK, Shontayne Hape, Matt Stevens, Yapp, Chris Ashton.

Are you serious about Chris Ashton???

hmm, his 15 tries in 20 odd matches for ENG makes him a bad player? That gives him a better record then George North... who is in a far superior backline. Glorified club player right???

Danny Care is someone intent on throwing his career away like Cipriani and Henson (damn I shouldn't have mentioned that can of worms!).

Ashton's just absolutely shoite. He can only score tries when all the work is done for him. He has no real pedigree or class he just happened to come along at a low point in English rugby, score a few against the Italians and has been living off that since.

Gav?

Richard Fussell

PerryGee wrote:Gav?

Actually, no he wasn't a bad player at all. That's what made him all the more frustrating.

Shrink, i see your rubbish Welsh team and raise you:

Christian Loader
Nigel Meek
Huw Rees Williams
Paul Arnold
Glyn Llewelyn
Alan Carter
Dr Gwyn Jones
Glen George
Rupert Moon
Adrian Davies
Alan Edmonds
Andy Marinos
Jason Jones Hughes
Rhys Williams
Justin Thomas

Cari wrote:

PerryGee wrote:Gav?

Actually, no he wasn't a bad player at all. That's what made him all the more frustrating.

But this thread is not about worst player, it is about worst professional.

Hands down, that has to be Gav. Look at his record of the last 4 or 5 years.

Glas a du wrote:Shrink, i see your rubbish Welsh team and raise you:

Christian Loader
Nigel Meek
Huw Rees Williams
Paul Arnold
Glyn Llewelyn
Alan Carter
Dr Gwyn Jones
Glen George
Rupert Moon
Adrian Davies
Alan Edmonds
Andy Marinos
Jason Jones Hughes
Rhys Williams
Justin Thomas

None of these were professional but I think you have a point. Bit harsh on Rhys Williams though IMO

Some were. Rhys Williams was terrible. As a full back you should know that. He'd put himself in a position so that he didn't have to tackle, but could make a diving attempt. Running around the tackle I called it. If younger posters don't know what I mean, think of Rhys Priestland's dives into touch just behind players, and theatrically buying the dummy when he played full back for the Scarlets.

Glas a du wrote:Some were. Rhys Williams was terrible. As a full back you should know that. He'd put himself in a position so that he didn't have to tackle, but could make a diving attempt. Running around the tackle I called it. If younger posters don't know what I mean, think of Rhys Priestland's dives into touch just behind players, and theatrically buying the dummy when he played full back for the Scarlets.

I recognise the strategy but I only used to use it when confronted with 18 stone forwards charging at you, suddenly I seemed to develop a limp and a hamstring problem and despite my theatrical diving tackle they seemed to just scrape by FB union eh

Heres my worst ever england interantional team, don't get me wrong some of these guys are legends at club level but they should have never been near an england shirt !

1) Jason hobson
2) Andy Long
3) Darren Crompton
4) Rob fidler
5) Roy winters
6) Chris Jones
7) Richard Pool Jones
8) Chris Sheasby
9) Nick walshe
10) Sam vesty
11) Micheal Stephenson
12) Henry Paul
13) Ayoola Erlinie
14) Lesley Vainikolo
15) Dan scarborough

sirtc

I don't remember most of those guys getting caps - presumably from various summer tours when they were the best available after 3 or 4 guys had cried off. The 12, 13, 14 combination is quality, and presumably Bananaman would be on the bench as cover.

Competition for the fullback jersey - Monye and Balshaw must be in the running (both good wingers but proof that 15 is a specialist position), but if we extend back to the amateur days surely Marcus Rose has to take the jersey.

Similarly, we've had a few 10s over the years who've not been that great - Andy Goode (good club player, but his limitations were exposed at Test level), Charlie Hodgson (even better club player, but his mental frailties showed through for England) and Cipriani (natural talent but poor application) all merit a mention, but I think the worst 10 performance of recent years was Mike Catt v South Africa in the RWC 07. In the amateur era though, we obviously have more contenders, such as Hywel Bennett...

Miek Catt was 37 in that RWC... and up against Jaque Fourie and Frans Steyn... in fact the age difference is so great I think Catt was playing Currie Cup for EP before Frans was born. Thats a little unfair to say he is unprofessional due to that.

I'd say alongside of JW, John Smit & Schalk Burger, Mike Catt was the ultimate professional. The fact he could play first class rugby for so long is testimony to this.

I think Phil Christophers would be looking for a wing spot

fa
Don't get me wrong, I think Catt was a good international player, especially once everyone (including him) worked out that his best position was 12. The SA match was really just a freak occurrence because of the limitations of the RWC squad system.

Ruby
Christophers would be under discussion by the selection panel, but I think would fall a bit short of making that team. Similarly, Jamie Noon would be close, but that is some centre partnership sirtidychris has come up with.

HaHa.... Ugo's full back performance was truly woefull and perhaps he deserves his spot just for that one game ! Phil christophers...brilliant forgot about that kid.

Others i thought of were
Dave Walder
Stuart abbott
Fraser waters
Ben skiriving

RubyGuby wrote:Richard Smith was capped at scrum half by Wales not so long ago, well into the 2000's and I bet half of you have never heard of him. Warren Fury is a more famous 9

Calling you on that one! Went to school with Jimmy and he was a great rugby player, great work ethic. problem for him, he was up against Howley for the Wales position....and Howley is world class

PerryGee wrote:

Cari wrote:

PerryGee wrote:Gav?

Actually, no he wasn't a bad player at all. That's what made him all the more frustrating.

But this thread is not about worst player, it is about worst professional.

Hands down, that has to be Gav. Look at his record of the last 4 or 5 years.

gotta agree. Gav had everything except the mentality...he could have been great and ended up......throwing ice cubes on a plane . Not professional and not a proud way for him to go!