Irish Province Attendances This Season

We're about to see two Irish teams contest the European Cup final and the PRO12 final will be played in Dublin. So I thought I'd look at the attendance figures for the provinces.

Munster

League Average = 15,421
- Musgrave Average = 7,896
- Thomond Average = 19,722

Heineken Cup Average = 26,375


Ulster

League Average = 8,349

Heineken Cup Average = 18,481
- Ravenhill Average = 9,593
- AVIVA 1 game = 45,147


Connacht

League Average = 4,653

Heineken Cup Average = 6,552


Leinster

League Average = 18,644
- RDS Average = 17,903
- AVIVA 1 game = 48,365

Heineken Cup Average = 33,282
- RDS Average = 18,212
- AVIVA Average = 48,632

Not surprisingly, Leinster are close to filling the RDS every week and nearly fill the AVIVA stadium for their annual home match with Munster as well as at least three HC games. Their only problem is that they don't own either ground. They're renting, so have to hand over a wad of attendance cash to the owners. Does anyone know if there's any possibility of Leinster building a new stadium? Or acquiring ownership of the RDS?

So Leinster have the biggest numbers. But if Munster played all their league games in Thomond they'd probably be slightly higher. And they pretty much completely sell out Thomond for every Heineken Cup game, despite the dip in their fortunes recently. That's a good sign. We couldn't have been sure the army of fans they won over the last ten years would stay if Munster declined on the field. But it looks like they still enjoy huge support.

I was actually surprised by how low Ulsters attendances were. They're not terrible. But I thought they'd be higher, given that Ulster have improved so much in the last two years. Why hasn't there been a corresponding growth in attendances? As it is they're just a little bit above the Welsh regions. Aren't they expanding Ravenhill to 18k? How will they double their support? Because that's what they'll have to do if they want to avoid large empty Welsh style spaces in the crowd. But they pulled a huge crowd to the HC semi in Dublin, which suggests the potential for bigger attendance figures is there.

Connachts attendances are very low. It's traditionally the province with the least interest in rugby. But I think they were actually lower in previous years, so at least they are growing. Attendances grew as the season went on too. And they seem to have about 3000 or so hardcore fans who'll turn up in any weather to watch Connacht take on any team. So they have something to keep building on. I think Elwood will build Connacht into a better side over the coming years and they'll keep a gradual improvement in attendance figures.

I think Ulster and Connacht could get much higher numbers. Munster and Leinster seem to be in grounds that are just the right size for them.

Getting to the final of the Heineken this season should give us a timely boost for next season, and as we are planning on getting to the knockouts stages next season as well, the average should push up.

Yeah, I remember looking at a graph of PRO12 attendances since it began. Munsters attendances exploded around 2006, and Leinsters around 2009. So maybe Ravenhill's expansion is very well timed.

And Ireland national attendances are probably falling in direct proportion as the gap widens between provincial and national performances.

Are Ulster just a little above the Welsh regions?

Do you have their figures?

I know the Scarlets get good numbers but do any of the other 3 come close to Ulster? I would indeed be surprised to hear that.

Pot Hale wrote:And Ireland national attendances are probably falling in direct proportion as the gap widens between provincial and national performances.

Not so sure - a lot of people that don't support the provinces will support Ireland, ie; people who aren't really rugby supporters but will support Ireland at anything.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:And Ireland national attendances are probably falling in direct proportion as the gap widens between provincial and national performances.

Not so sure - a lot of people that don't support the provinces will support Ireland, ie; people who aren't really rugby supporters but will support Ireland at anything.

And presumably vice versa too.

MrsP wrote:Are Ulster just a little above the Welsh regions?

Do you have their figures?

I know the Scarlets get good numbers but do any of the other 3 come close to Ulster? I would indeed be surprised to hear that.

I get the impression we're a few thousand ahead but hardly huge amounts. We have an appropriately sized ground for demand atm. Logan is on record as being very disappointed with the lack of growth and I agree; I think our attendances have been disappointing by and large. They haven't increased at all on average although we've had better crowds in the second half of the season. Big crowds in our last two Pro12 home games against Aironi and Leinster. I think our two biggest home attendances in the Pro12 have been the two games we've played around the time of the quarter-final onwards. The warm-up to Thomond and the Aviva.

I wish we could have 8pm kick-offs. Would make it much easier for anyone outside Belfast to come to watch us play to be honest. Having an inconvenient time slot isn't the killer, but combined with free to air TV coverage certainly means people aren't going to be fighting and rushing to make it live if they don't have to.

I would like us to negotiate later kick off times with BBC NI. I do think we'll see some growth next year.

Notch wrote:

MrsP wrote:Are Ulster just a little above the Welsh regions?

Do you have their figures?

I know the Scarlets get good numbers but do any of the other 3 come close to Ulster? I would indeed be surprised to hear that.

I get the impression we're a few thousand ahead but hardly huge amounts. We have an appropriately sized ground for demand atm. Logan is on record as being very disappointed with the lack of growth and I agree; I think our attendances have been disappointing by and large. They haven't increased at all on average although we've had better crowds in the second half of the season. Big crowds in our last two Pro12 home games against Aironi and Leinster. I think our two biggest home attendances in the Pro12 have been the two games we've played around the time of the quarter-final onwards. The warm-up to Thomond and the Aviva.

I wish we could have 8pm kick-offs. Would make it much easier for anyone outside Belfast to come to watch us play to be honest. Having an inconvenient time slot isn't the killer, but combined with free to air TV coverage certainly means people aren't going to be fighting and rushing to make it live if they don't have to.

I would like us to negotiate later kick off times with BBC NI. I do think we'll see some growth next year.

BBC are the biggest obstacle to increased attendances.

Agree with the above - sometimes having the BBC option is irresistible on a cold, wet night or at the end if the month when you've spent more than you've planned to.
It has helped generate new interest in Ulster Rugby, but it may be time to pull the plug on BBC and attempt to reap some revenue from those new fans.

MrsP wrote:Are Ulster just a little above the Welsh regions?

Do you have their figures?

I know the Scarlets get good numbers but do any of the other 3 come close to Ulster? I would indeed be surprised to hear that.

NOT according to this
NB - I cannot vouch for the accuracy (I mean they even have just Llanelli ) and these are Rabo Direct Pro 12 only

http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=394&statType=home_Att

I got my figures from the PRO12 website. They give the attendance of each game on the Fixtures & Results page. I worked out the averages myself. I've gone over it again, but I can't see how mine has Ulsters average at a thousand higher than Pete's link. The Ulster Rugby website has the same figures as the PRO12 one.

Anyway it doesn't really matter. My point was, that Ulsters figures are a bit lower than I expected. Although over the history of the Celtic league I think they've stayed remarkably steady.

Here's that graph I was talking about. Goes up the the 10-11 season.

Spoiler:

In the first season, Munster and Leinsters attendances were lower than Glasgows! So it shows that big increases are possible. Even if the regions and Ulster are finding it frustratingly difficult get those big increases.

Notch wrote:
I wish we could have 8pm kick-offs. Would make it much easier for anyone outside Belfast to come to watch us play to be honest.

Absolutely, I'd come to a 3rd more games if KO was at 7.45pm or there were more Saturday afternoon/evening games. I'd imagine we must lose out on away supporters too?

That said I love the Friday night games, maybe I'll just move to Belfast and buy a season ticket.....

Nah just move to Ballymoney and travel with me

...one can only dream Rava!

Here Rodders, make sure you shave on Saturday morning

Goes without saying Rava

Ulsters average attendance in a season where they reached the Heineken Cup final is lower than the season they nearly finished behind Connacht. Is the fact games now have terrestrial TV coverage the main factor? It's pretty shocking.

We were terrible in 07/08. But games started later and were not televised. Now we have a very good team but we basically play at a time which makes it a massive hassle for anyone outside Belfast to attend our games and all our matches are free to air. The viewing figures for Ulster Rugby Live are, I understand, quite good. There is definitely way more interest in the team than 2007/2008.

It's something we might see improve next year, but we definitely need to try and get our games kicking off later. These 7.05 kick offs are terrible for our fans outside Belfast.

The out of Belfast fans getting to the games has been well discussed but surely there must be more greater Belfast based fans who aren't going to the games too Notch?

Definitely we need to double our attendance. I'm pretty positive we can but Ulster need to really identify the reasons why people aren't going and address the issues because the interest is there.

Ticket price has been mentioned before, price of family tickets, student concessions etc... theres a lot of work to be done.

Feckless Rogue wrote:

Not surprisingly, Leinster are close to filling the RDS every week and nearly fill the AVIVA stadium for their annual home match with Munster as well as at least three HC games. Their only problem is that they don't own either ground. They're renting, so have to hand over a wad of attendance cash to the owners. Does anyone know if there's any possibility of Leinster building a new stadium? Or acquiring ownership of the RDS?

Don't think so. RDS are planning a €17m upgrade at the moment. Hoping to sell the naming rights.

The society continues to press ahead with plans to sell the naming rights to its main arena, where Leinster rugby plays its home matches. The funds would be used to help fund a proposed €17 million redevelopment of the stadium that would boost capacity to 23,000.

“There are a number of parties that we’re engaged with at the moment, but the process still has some time to run,” Mr Duffy added.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0420/1224314968405.html

Also see from that report that the IRB have leased their offices from them on Simmonscourt Road. Think the B+I Lions hang out there as well!

PS - I know Leinster are doing well, but its unlikely that a 281 year old institution (which is what the RDS is) would sell out now to Leinster Rugby

Leinster would be better off building their own stadium. The problem is they won't budge from south Dublin.

The naming rights for the RDS are thought to be worth 15-20m*, which is due in no small part to Leinster playing most of thier home games there (feic all else happens there until the summer). So if they stay there they get a free stadium upgrade essentially. They do rent but it makes a lot of sense for the finances right now.

*theyre only selling the name of the arena where we play, not the whole complex.

The figures in that statbunker link are just that bunk.
If you do the maths the Ulster figures done add up.

From what I have seen we are behind Scarlets, just above the Blues and comfortably above Ospreys and Dragons.

Tv has hit us as has the earlier kick off time.

However good news to report - there has been a significant increase in season ticket interest for next year - looking like a 33% increase so expect our crowds to rise.

That is the benefit of success - I predict we will average close to 10000 next year.

Thanks they are the figures I have seen

I still don't think those figures are correct.

Where did you get them Bikkies?

MrsP wrote:I still don't think those figures are correct.

Where did you get them Bikkies?

I have them on a spreadsheet MrsP, the averages weren't pulling from the last two games. Will update momentarily.

Updated now.

There is no figure listed for the Ulster v Leinster match but it was a sell out so it was 11,900 bar a couple.

But, where did you get the data?

MrsP wrote:There is no figure listed for the Ulster v Leinster match but it was a sell out so it was 11,900 bar a couple.

No official attendance listed. But i got a figure of 10k exactly from somewhere.

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/13860.php

There are a few surprises there.

- Cardiff Blues had more fans than the Ospreys.
- Scarlets had more fans than Ulster.

Bikkies.

It was definately a sell out.

Ask Rodders. Him and MrP ended up standing behind the goal posts as they were the only tickets left.

Ok, well a sell out with up the average from 8213 to 8386.

That's what I had!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17739308

Attendance listed by BBC as 10,500

That's just nonsense Stag.

I was there and Rodders nearly didn't get a ticket.

MrsP wrote:That's just nonsense Stag.

I was there and Rodders nearly didn't get a ticket.

Well I'm guessing the BBC didn't make up the figure. The fact Rodders nearly didnt get a ticket is not proof to me that the attendance was 11,900

I don't know where it came from but neither the Rabo site nor UR have figures for it and it is a suspiciously round number so....

Anyway,

the great news is that the gates for the second half of the season were significantly better than the first half so things are improving!!!!

red_stag wrote:

MrsP wrote:That's just nonsense Stag.

I was there and Rodders nearly didn't get a ticket.

Well I'm guessing the BBC didn't make up the figure. The fact Rodders nearly didnt get a ticket is not proof to me that the attendance was 11,900

Stag I'm shocked you'd trust the beeb over Mrs P! ....

Definitely there were more than 10,500... the Terrace and promenade were sold out before the game.

Jaysus, you must be accurate or MrsP will have you

I don't know about the accuracy of these figures, but I don't care if were a few hundred short of selling out against Leinster or a thousand short. I think we're slightly higher than the reported attendance for that one but it's more important to me the trend of our attendances rising throughout the season continues into next year.

Lads!

MrP was down trying to get 2 extra tickets for that game and it was virtually sold out by that stage.

But Stag is just being a rascal!

Again!!!!

It is excellent news for Ulster that attendances are on the rise. They have played some attractive rugby this last eason so its good for them that is resulting in extra interest from the general public.

eirebilly wrote:It is excellent news for Ulster that attendances are on the rise. They have played some attractive rugby this last eason so its good for them that is resulting in extra interest from the general public.

Attendances have bee on the rise throughout the season, slowly, but the wider trend is that attendances have stagnated over the past few years. But hopefully the increase in season ticket sales will make 2012/2013 a big year of growth.

Mind you, I wouldn't put too much store in the official attendances before Logan. I'd say there's certainly some massaging of the truth. Call it the Ospreys approach!

It was so busy Devin Toner had to dress as Sparky to get into the ground.

I am just really happy for Ulster that their sucess is being seen in the increace of attendance Notch.

red_stag wrote:

MrsP wrote:That's just nonsense Stag.

I was there and Rodders nearly didn't get a ticket.

Well I'm guessing the BBC didn't make up the figure. The fact Rodders nearly didnt get a ticket is not proof to me that the attendance was 11,900

The game was a sell out all tickets sold - dont care what the BBC say.

As mentioned their has been an upturn towards the end of the year - over 10000 against Aironi in the Pro12 for example

Sold out or not, it doesn't make much differnce to the season average.