Bret Hart's facebook update on Orton Punk

"Excellent match between Randy Orton and CM Punk! Not a wasted move in it!"

Although not too much detail, seemed he loved the match from last night. Always find it interesting to hear the pros views on other matches. Was really impressed with Orton's timing at the end

cm punk should of won .

I think the right guy won from a booking POV, if you have a heel champion is wise to have a face win a high profile feud, not that Orton/Miz intrests me but if that7 the plan then it makes sense

Was my favourite match. Great minds... :P

the-gaffer wrote:I think the right guy won from a booking POV, if you have a heel champion is wise to have a face win a high profile feud, not that Orton/Miz intrests me but if that7 the plan then it makes sense

Totally agree, it was booking 101. I also would not relish another Miz-Orton feud but if that's the way they want to go an Orton win was necessary. I thought it was the best match on the card and Punk wasn't damaged by it.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:I think the right guy won from a booking POV, if you have a heel champion is wise to have a face win a high profile feud, not that Orton/Miz intrests me but if that7 the plan then it makes sense

Totally agree, it was booking 101. I also would not relish another Miz-Orton feud but if that's the way they want to go an Orton win was necessary. I thought it was the best match on the card and Punk wasn't damaged by it.

Also, with Cena seemingly tied up with Rock there is a lack of genuine alternative face at the moment. With Miz still in the "establishing" phase of this career and not really ready to take the lead in any WWE title feud he needs someone with experience and prestige in there. That leaves Orton and HHH unless they are going to draft a Big Show / Kane / Rey Mysterio type over to give Miz another challenge.

Miz v Rey.......???

King Beer wrote:Miz v Rey.......???

Of the three suggestions given, I'd much rather see Miz vs Rey. I'd rather not see any of them but I don't know how you can pick that one out as the bad option! At least they could actually have a good match.

Miz vs Kane or Big Show would be disastrous in every single way.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

King Beer wrote:Miz v Rey.......???

Of the three suggestions given, I'd much rather see Miz vs Rey. I'd rather not see any of them but I don't know how you can pick that one out as the bad option! At least they could actually have a good match.

Miz vs Kane or Big Show would be disastrous in every single way.

Neither do I think that they are good options, but I would stress again which established face stars are there for him to fight? After all, wasn't that (partly) the reason why we had Miz v a 61 year old commentator at Elimination Chamber?!

Josh, I wasn't criticising you for suggesting them, I think you are right that those names would factor into an internal discussion about Miz's next challenger.

WWE has not attempted to seriously push a babyface into the main event mix since Kofi in late 2009, and that lasted all of a few weeks. I personally think now is the time to pull the trigger on John Morrison. He and Miz have a ready-made feud. I'd give him the title shot at Extreme Rules, put Miz over clean (showing a new tough side and proving that he can win on his own) but showcasing Morrison at the same time, and then play it by ear with him. If the fans are into him as Miz's challenger, I'd keep him in the title picture.

One thing is certain: Even on an off-night, Morrison would never be as bad in the ring as Cena was at Wrestlemania.

However, I'm fully expecting a Miz-Cena rematch at Extreme Rules.

Crippled - I appreciate that you weren't criticising me for saying it but it is a real shame that this is the state of the WWE at present. I feel that given that Miz's title reign has been given scant disregard due to Rock/Cena that he needs a real A Lister to put him over before a better clash with JoMo or whomever.

The problem with Cena was that while he isn't the best technical wrestler by a country mile he used to have a real intensity in his game that isn't there right now. He has been very passive in his verbals with Rock etc. There is no bite, no edge and without it there is nothing but a marketing shell left to him. The problem is that kids have taken to a guy who should be nowhere near that market as his best gimmick is being on the envelope with everything he does - not pandering to Barney the Dinosaur gags.

Maybe I'm talking rubbish but longterm I can see Vince pushing both Ziggler and Swagger face - they have the blonde muscle bound look that he likes.

Davieswasacrippledtart wrote:

King Beer wrote:Miz v Rey.......???

:facepalm:

Of the three suggestions given, I'd much rather see Miz vs Rey. I'd rather not see any of them but I don't know how you can pick that one out as the bad option! At least they could actually have a good match.

Miz vs Kane or Big Show would be disastrous in every single way.

My suggestions earlier (on another thread)

Bryan v Miz

Ready made storyline given the history. Bryan can work a match and would certainly make Miz look good in the ring and push him, it would help elevate Bryan and give him something to do before the draft.

Morrison v Miz v Ziggler

Would be a great feud, have Morrison become #1 contender but Miss Excuse Me gets Ziggler in there, both JoMo and Ziggles would put on a hell of a show and having Miz go over both before dropping the title to Morrision would be win!

Miz v HHH

£££

KB - I would still maintain that neither Zig/JoMo or Bryan have the prestige yet to main event with someone who is still only establishing himself in that sphere.

If the WWE hadn't ended WM the way they did he could have walked out an established star, but they didn't so I think that firstly he needs to face and defeat an established name to give him and his title reign some credibility.

JoshSansom wrote:KB - I would still maintain that neither Zig/JoMo or Bryan have the prestige yet to main event with someone who is still only establishing himself in that sphere.

If the WWE hadn't ended WM the way they did he could have walked out an established star, but they didn't so I think that firstly he needs to face and defeat an established name to give him and his title reign some credibility.

See, you have to look to the future now.

HHH is obviously a big name for Miz to go over, but in all honesty they need to build others up and make future stars, you say Miz is still establishing but he's had the belt 6 months, a feud with Morrison or Ziggler would be a good filler before facing HHH at Summerslam.

I'd also perhaps have HHH involved in the WHC scene to give it more credibility.

I wouldn't totally be against Miz Rey, im not a fan but it would give Miz an opertunity to get a big win and would also allow him a feud where he could be the genuine aggresser, I can actually see Miz being drafted to SD to keep him and his feuds fresh, Miz/Edge Miz/Rey Miz/Christian could give SD and Miz months of material

the-gaffer wrote:I wouldn't totally be against Miz Rey, im not a fan but it would give Miz an opertunity to get a big win and would also allow him a feud where he could be the genuine aggresser, I can actually see Miz being drafted to SD to keep him and his feuds fresh, Miz/Edge Miz/Rey Miz/Christian could give SD and Miz months of material

Miz v Rey makes no sense given that Rey specifically asked to feud with Rhodes.

King Beer wrote:

JoshSansom wrote:KB - I would still maintain that neither Zig/JoMo or Bryan have the prestige yet to main event with someone who is still only establishing himself in that sphere.

If the WWE hadn't ended WM the way they did he could have walked out an established star, but they didn't so I think that firstly he needs to face and defeat an established name to give him and his title reign some credibility.

See, you have to look to the future now.

HHH is obviously a big name for Miz to go over, but in all honesty they need to build others up and make future stars, you say Miz is still establishing but he's had the belt 6 months, a feud with Morrison or Ziggler would be a good filler before facing HHH at Summerslam.

I'd also perhaps have HHH involved in the WHC scene to give it more credibility.

I would look for a short feud with HHH now, followed by one with JoMo or another, followed by another with HHH when he has has a chance to recuperate from injuries etc.

Maybe it is just me but Miz's legitimacy as a champ is still diminished by the fact that he won it through the MITB route and hasn't had a proper, top level defence (bar Orton - but that was only ever a vehicle for Orton v Punk).

This was would also aid credibility for JoMo / Ziggler etc for when they face Miz and would give them time to really build up a feud.

King Beer wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:I wouldn't totally be against Miz Rey, im not a fan but it would give Miz an opertunity to get a big win and would also allow him a feud where he could be the genuine aggresser, I can actually see Miz being drafted to SD to keep him and his feuds fresh, Miz/Edge Miz/Rey Miz/Christian could give SD and Miz months of material

Miz v Rey makes no sense given that Rey specifically asked to feud with Rhodes.

whats so hard to understand about it KB? Miz is a champ, Rey only needs to want the title, that is sense enough, a World Title being sought after

the-gaffer wrote:

King Beer wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:I wouldn't totally be against Miz Rey, im not a fan but it would give Miz an opertunity to get a big win and would also allow him a feud where he could be the genuine aggresser, I can actually see Miz being drafted to SD to keep him and his feuds fresh, Miz/Edge Miz/Rey Miz/Christian could give SD and Miz months of material

Miz v Rey makes no sense given that Rey specifically asked to feud with Rhodes.

whats so hard to understand about it KB? Miz is a champ, Rey only needs to want the title, that is sense enough, a World Title being sought after

Right, so Rey asks for a program with Rhodes but during the middle of their feud suddenly going to go from losing at Wrestlemania Rey, with all his pull decides, you know what, i'm gonna challenge Miz. Rey is on SD anyway, why would he be challenging Miz?

For the record, gaffer. I understand it perfectly well, i think it's pointless and makes no sense from a storyline/creative perspective.

I like the idea of a short Miz HHH feud. I would have Miz challenge HHH to a title match due to his injuries from WM. The Miz can then beat HHH at the next ppv, before feuding with Ziggler/Morrison and then coming up against HHH once he has recovered. I feel that Triple H will be given one last run with the belt and this is a way for him to get it having already been beaten by Miz.

KB, what has Rey asking for a feud with Rhodes got to do with storylines?

Enforcer wrote:I like the idea of a short Miz HHH feud. I would have Miz challenge HHH to a title match due to his injuries from WM. The Miz can then beat HHH at the next ppv, before feuding with Ziggler/Morrison and then coming up against HHH once he has recovered. I feel that Triple H will be given one last run with the belt and this is a way for him to get it having already been beaten by Miz.

KB, what has Rey asking for a feud with Rhodes got to do with storylines?

That's why the two of them are in a storyline cause Rey specifically asked for it? FML how is that hard to comprehend?

But you said i think it's pointless and makes no sense from a storyline/creative perspective. Whether Rey asked for a feud or not has no bearing on the storyline.

Enforcer wrote:But you said i think it's pointless and makes no sense from a storyline/creative perspective. Whether Rey asked for a feud or not has no bearing on the storyline.

Right, Miz v Rey makes no sense from a storyline perspective because he's already involved in his feud with Rhodes?!!

I agree that Rey and Cody will continue though it does beg the question of how long their storyline will continue... Big finale at Summerslam maybe?

I think it is about time to get Cody in the fight for IC/US titles so they should be thinking that way afterwards.

I agree on Miz defeating HHH then fighting JoMo only to battle HHH on his return and lose. He can then fight with JoMo for No.1 contender before beating Triple H for the title around Survivor Series time. It is important that he has a title win where he doesn't get it via the MITB route.

I would look to have him main event at WM28 with the title against JoMo / Edge / face Jericho. If Morrison then he needs a title run beforehand and some mic time or else Miz will show him up as a mute.

King Beer wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:

King Beer wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:I wouldn't totally be against Miz Rey, im not a fan but it would give Miz an opertunity to get a big win and would also allow him a feud where he could be the genuine aggresser, I can actually see Miz being drafted to SD to keep him and his feuds fresh, Miz/Edge Miz/Rey Miz/Christian could give SD and Miz months of material

Miz v Rey makes no sense given that Rey specifically asked to feud with Rhodes.

whats so hard to understand about it KB? Miz is a champ, Rey only needs to want the title, that is sense enough, a World Title being sought after

Right, so Rey asks for a program with Rhodes but during the middle of their feud suddenly going to go from losing at Wrestlemania Rey, with all his pull decides, you know what, i'm gonna challenge Miz. Rey is on SD anyway, why would he be challenging Miz?

For the record, gaffer. I understand it perfectly well, i think it's pointless and makes no sense from a storyline/creative perspective.

I don't think it would be pointless as I'm sure all it would do would give Miz a clean high profile victory, something everyone wants

Give him a win on Smackdown and draft Rey to Raw? I don't think it will or should happen, but can't see why it is such a stretch to imagine it happening.

the-gaffer wrote:

King Beer wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:

King Beer wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:I wouldn't totally be against Miz Rey, im not a fan but it would give Miz an opertunity to get a big win and would also allow him a feud where he could be the genuine aggresser, I can actually see Miz being drafted to SD to keep him and his feuds fresh, Miz/Edge Miz/Rey Miz/Christian could give SD and Miz months of material

Miz v Rey makes no sense given that Rey specifically asked to feud with Rhodes.

whats so hard to understand about it KB? Miz is a champ, Rey only needs to want the title, that is sense enough, a World Title being sought after

Right, so Rey asks for a program with Rhodes but during the middle of their feud suddenly going to go from losing at Wrestlemania Rey, with all his pull decides, you know what, i'm gonna challenge Miz. Rey is on SD anyway, why would he be challenging Miz?

For the record, gaffer. I understand it perfectly well, i think it's pointless and makes no sense from a storyline/creative perspective.

I don't think it would be pointless as I'm sure all it would do would give Miz a clean high profile victory, something everyone wants

Over everyones favourite, smackdown based, botch happy midget? We'll have to disagree completely.

Enforcer wrote:Give him a win on Smackdown and draft Rey to Raw? I don't think it will or should happen, but can't see why it is such a stretch to imagine it happening.

Did i say it was a stretch? No.

I said it's pointless from a storyline perspective.

Also I'm not suggesting it should happen ASAP I said i can see Miz being drafted of couse Rey/Rhodes should be allowed to finish

Yeah we'll have to disagree, while im no fan of Rey i can clearly see and hear how over he is sn i would never be adverse to using him to help establish would be top heels

Personally, Rey should be putting people over to get title shots, not having the title shots himsel!

Again i disagree, not every title shot should be about a challenger, this would be all about Miz going over a high profile face in dominant fashion without help, something he wouldn't get on Raw with Cena HHH and Orton

Do you think rey would actually job though? Given his nose is out of joint following the arrival of Sin Cara and ADR?

IMO Rey should be fueding with Barrett for the IC Title on Smackdown. The last time the IC title had any real credibility was when Rey held it and he is the perfect guy to give Wade a good fued.

Mr H wrote:IMO Rey should be fueding with Barrett for the IC Title on Smackdown. The last time the IC title had any real credibility was when Rey held it and he is the perfect guy to give Wade a good fued.

Would prefer to see that than Rey v Miz, i think IC/US title is Rey's level now. His feud with Rhodes should push Cody towards the MITB and have Rhodes do the same as Miz and hold the US or IC title before getting the big one.

King Beer wrote:Do you think rey would actually job though? Given his nose is out of joint following the arrival of Sin Cara and ADR?

I think that Rey is already thinking of life beyond WWE and would prefer to job a bit in a high profile feud so that he can go out on the up and as a bigger name back in Mexico than be seen as the No. 3 Mexican in WWE and have Vince potentially screw him over.

Rey has a lot of value attached to being a masked wrestler and Vince could always make him lose it if he didn't do as he wants. Given that he wants a career back home beyond WWE I doubt he would be able to argue.

Well if he wouldn't then I obviously wouldn't use him but if his choice is putting Miz over in a main event run or doing something much less publicised you would hope he would do whats right for business