Rupert Harden replaces Matt Stevens

Just poped up on my twitter than Harden has replaced Stevens in the England squad.

So now our prop options look a little more balanced...

Looseheads

Alex Corbisiero, Joe Marler and Matt Mullan.

Tightheads

Dan Cole, Paul Doran-Jones, Rupert Harden.

I'm hoping Stevens injury will give Marler a chance to make the match day squad. However I am worried England will call upon Doran-Jones to cover on the bench due to his versatility. I personally think Doran-Jones is about as effective as Tim Payne. So in other words, I think he is totally useless.

Thoughts?

Personally id have been inclined to take Thomas of sale. Cole a and PDJ can be the senior ones and Thomas can play midweek...

Is Harden 26 ish...so not old by Any means but Thomas would be forward thinking

Unfortunate for Stevens since he may well drop further down the pecking order and, at his age, may signal the end of his international career if others take their chance. I don't rate him but still its unfortunate for the bloke.

Think you are a little harsh on Doran-Jones, he seems solid in the tight and i've heard it said he's particularly good in the driving maul, something we did well on Sunday and were hopeless at during the 6N's so there may be something in that. He is however some way behind Cole, hopefully Harden can add competition for that second TH spot - particularly with the ability to play both sides becoming irrelevant from November onwards.

Tad harsh on Stevens, since he played well on Sunday. Hope he recovers soon. Thomas of Sale is injured at the moment Geordie, as well as Wilson.

Great opportunity for Harden.

Never nice for players to get injured but let's hope that Stevens uses this time to trim down a bit and focus on his scrummaging.

As to Harden I haven't really heard anything of him, is he a scrumager, runner or both?

PDJ did look very solid on Sunday, I wonder if he'll carrly that mauling in to the England team and if he can how come Cole can't?

Could be a blessing in disguise for Stevens. It will give him time to rest and prepare with his club mates in pre season.

Also give him the time to look at his flaws, particularly in the scrummaging area as yappysnap suggests.

Like yappysnap I know little about Harden.

Islingtonv2 "particularly with the ability to play both sides becoming irrelevant from November onwards" - what do you mean by this?

Thomas is still learning and has had some problems in the scrummage this season. Hopefully he'll come good over the next couple of seasons and emerge as a huge prospect.

Harden has impressed me this season, a solid scrummager and not afraid to have a go in the loose. I rate him.

However I am worried England will call upon Doran-Jones to cover on the bench due to his versatility. I personally think Doran-Jones is about as effective as Tim Payne. So in other words, I think he is totally useless.

PDJ is a good scrummager and really does good work in the tight. Definitely my choice for the bench spot as he can hold his own in the scrum on the loosehead side and is more than solid on the tighthead. If Marler goes to the bench and Cole gets injured then Corbs and Marler in the front row will prompt a scrummaging collapse as Corbs won't hold up against the Beast. Cole took Corbs apart down at the MadStad after the 6N and I think similar will happen if Corbs goes to tighthead against the Boks.

Shame for Stevens but perhaps it will be better for him long term, he has been well out of form and has played a lot of rugby. A break and a good pre season will so him some good.

robshaw4england wrote:Islingtonv2 "particularly with the ability to play both sides becoming irrelevant from November onwards" - what do you mean by this?

They're trialling the 8 man bench at international level, so being able to play both sides wont be as important. Not totally irrelevant, but not vital.

robshaw4england wrote:Islingtonv2 "particularly with the ability to play both sides becoming irrelevant from November onwards" - what do you mean by this?

It's a tad premature to say it's irrelevant from November onwards, but the IRB is trialling having an 8-man bench in the AIs, bringing international rugby in line with club rugby. It means that you can have a loosehead and a tighthead on the bench.

Sam - your logic is essentially that because Corbs came off second best against a world class tighthead when playing loosehead, he'll be vulnerable when playing tighthead himself. Not sure that stacks up, though I do buy the argument that Corbs hasn't played tighthead much recently (and hasn't played at all for a couple of months). PDJ is almost certainly the summer bench option.

Whilst I would never wish harm to any player, I must admit to being pleased Stevens is out of the squad although I would have preferred it was down to selection. He has been a shadow of his self and until he learns how to scrummage again shouldn't be back in the squad.

I am delighted for Harden that his season of hard work has been rewarded. When PDJ left Glaws there was a lot of speculation as to who we'd sign as a replacement but the coaching staff stayed with Sausage and rightly so. His early season form was excellent, however, he has mirrored Glaws' overall drop as he hasn't been quite there since March - hopefully we'll see his early season form on tour. He is starting to do more around the park and is a very solid defender. His scrummaging is very solid. He could be more technically skilled, but he is certainly strong and Rowntree should probably be able to do some work with him. He occasionally has a tendency to be squeezed up by smaller props who get lower in the hit, but all in all he is a very solid scrummager. If he can build on this season I firmly believe (in my unbiased opinion!) that he could be the prop to challenge Cole - will he be better than Cole, probably not, but he can be better than the rest and offer an alternative.

I also agree the OP is a tad harsh on PDJ. It took him a while to assert himself at Saints, but that was partly due to him being used as a LH whilst Tiny was away. He is a solid scrummager and his loose work has improved no end.

Poorfour wrote:

robshaw4england wrote:Islingtonv2 "particularly with the ability to play both sides becoming irrelevant from November onwards" - what do you mean by this?

It's a tad premature to say it's irrelevant from November onwards, but the IRB is trialling having an 8-man bench in the AIs, bringing international rugby in line with club rugby. It means that you can have a loosehead and a tighthead on the bench.

Sam - your logic is essentially that because Corbs came off second best against a world class tighthead when playing loosehead, he'll be vulnerable when playing tighthead himself. Not sure that stacks up, though I do buy the argument that Corbs hasn't played tighthead much recently (and hasn't played at all for a couple of months). PDJ is almost certainly the summer bench option.

A tad premature maybe but i can't think what the IRB are going to discover during the trial period that'll persuade them not to enact the 8 man bench.

Personally i'd ban all substitions except for injurys since tiring players creates more space on the pitch than all the ELV's, law changes or refeering guidance put together that the IRB has dreamed up over the years to "improve" the game. But that ain't going to happen.

I think that myself and the OP must have seen PDJ at completely different times.
When I've seen PDJ play loosehead, I've been more than impressed with him.

A loosehead is rarely the destructive prop in a scrum, but I've seen PDJ be particularly effective.

Given that he's in the squad as a tighthead, that's even more impressive.


Therefore, I really do see PDJ as the bench option for the Summer tour (I don't know much about Corbs at TH)

When there are 8 man benches, I think that Cole, Corbs, Marler and PDJ is an excellent lineup for us.

Sam - your logic is essentially that because Corbs came off second best against a world class tighthead when playing loosehead, he'll be vulnerable when playing tighthead himself.

If he struggles to gain the upper hand at his own position against a more technically skilled opponent, then slotting him out of position against the Beast would be expecting to much of him. That's what I was going with.

It's about time the 8 man bench was brought into international rugby, it's a good safe guard against the evil of uncontested scrums.

Always good to bring a Cumbrian into the squad.

He's had a good season and this is just reward. What the heck has happened to Davey Wilson though? He's gone from being on the edge of breaking into the squad to being totally ignored, even when England are in a little bit of a jam.

Unfortunately for Stevens, I feel this will benefit England. They will be able to develop another true TH (Harden) and be without the constant flow of penalties Stevens gives away. Plus, he can't scrummage. So, unlucky for Stevens but better news for England's future.

Cumbrian wrote:Always good to bring a Cumbrian into the squad.

He's had a good season and this is just reward. What the heck has happened to Davey Wilson though? He's gone from being on the edge of breaking into the squad to being totally ignored, even when England are in a little bit of a jam.

He's injured I believe Cumbrian. Feel sorry for him a bit, he always seems to warm the bench and rarely start when he has been in the squad.

Cumbrian wrote:Always good to bring a Cumbrian into the squad.

A very loose Cumbrian. He is one of those very rare species, an Aussie that can scrummage!

HongKongCherry wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Always good to bring a Cumbrian into the squad.

A very loose Cumbrian. He is one of those very rare species, an Aussie that can scrummage!

Get away with ye, Don't matter where you're born, it's where you're bred (for a bit of your childhood) that matters.

HongKongCherry wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Always good to bring a Cumbrian into the squad.

A very loose Cumbrian. He is one of those very rare species, an Aussie that can scrummage!

That's why he had to leave wasn't it? Too much time practicing scrummaging and not enough on the drop goals!!

Cumbrian wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Always good to bring a Cumbrian into the squad.

A very loose Cumbrian. He is one of those very rare species, an Aussie that can scrummage!

Get away with ye, Don't matter where you're born, it's where you're bred (for a bit of your childhood) that matters.

I thought his childhood was in London and the Midlands?! He's a very tenuous Cumbrian

Nah, he grew up on the family farm near Penrith, which coincidently Stuart Lancaster's home town. Is it a conspiracy?

So just as Stevens has a decent 40 minutes he gets injured. PDJ will now be on the bench, which is fair enough. It's good Harden is getting some time with Rowntree.

Well we need a right harden in the front row...