A question about the Avengers, (Spoilers - do not look if you dont want to know anything)

I saw it last night and imo its a good action movie which kept me gripped for all of the 2 hours and 15 mins but what I want to ask is, didnt Thor's brother Loki die in the film Thor. I'm a big believer in continuity and wondered if we were just ment to forget that and that the Avengers was starting again and not connected to the other films which I understood and thought to be the case.

well he sort of fell into oblivion so it was never confirmed whether he died or not. I had always assumed he hadn't for the possibility of a sequel. For me though the continuity issue I had was the way in which Thor returned to earth without any real explanation after that was the major cliff hanger of the film! I really felt they shot Thor 2 in the foot by the way they just brought Thor back to earth as if it was no big deal.

For me the Avengers lacked scope and imagination. I personally would have liked to have seen Loki invade earth with his alien army and have the regular US army/air force defeated with Loki then capturing certain superheroes (such as spiderman) so to minimise the threat to his oppressive reign. Then I would have had Nick Fury and his cloaked airship recruit each of the Avengers before Loki gets to them and come up with a plan to rescue America - hence actually avenging something.

From what I'm aware Spidey cannot be used for the foreseeable future in any Avengers film as his film rights are with a different studio.

Didnt Loki and Thor talk about how he got back to Earth in the film? so maybe than dragging out Thor 2 by showing what happened they decided that they would focus on making it better than the first film that kinda felt more of a prequel than a first movie IMO

I thought it was a great movie the Hulk and Loki being the stand out characters, I really hope they make a new Hulk film that carries on from where the Avengers left off

If you watch past the credits in Thor then you know Loki doesn't die

Also before the credits in Thor you get told the the bifrost wasn't the only way out of Asgard

In avengers they do touch on it but go into no great detail, just that it involved magic

talkingpoint wrote:well he sort of fell into oblivion so it was never confirmed whether he died or not. I had always assumed he hadn't for the possibility of a sequel. For me though the continuity issue I had was the way in which Thor returned to earth without any real explanation after that was the major cliff hanger of the film! I really felt they shot Thor 2 in the foot by the way they just brought Thor back to earth as if it was no big deal.

For me the Avengers lacked scope and imagination. I personally would have liked to have seen Loki invade earth with his alien army and have the regular US army/air force defeated with Loki then capturing certain superheroes (such as spiderman) so to minimise the threat to his oppressive reign. Then I would have had Nick Fury and his cloaked airship recruit each of the Avengers before Loki gets to them and come up with a plan to rescue America - hence actually avenging something.

I think for what is was, it was a great action movie but I agree the storyline lacked a little depth, and apart from the obvious action parts not much happened, what I mean by that is their wasn't much of a story apart from the actual action.

Hero wrote:From what I'm aware Spidey cannot be used for the foreseeable future in any Avengers film as his film rights are with a different studio.

What about the fantastic 4 are they Marvel?

I actually don't see what the problem is with the storyline

Loki is given his power by Thanos and comes to Earth to steal the Tessaeract so he can open a portal and lead an invasion of Earth using Thanos' army

Yes it's simple but does what it sets out to do. Do you not think that if the whole alien army invaded at the beginning and started to rule everybody from the off and started taking superheroes it might of got boring fast? It would be a bit like Superman where they're almost too good that nothing could beat them? wereas in this case they set out was going to happen and then recruited accordingly.

The only thing I thought was weak was the connection to making them The Avengers with the death of a certain character (trying to be as spoiler free as possible :p)

Yea the so called push Fury gave to the Avengers after the characters death was weak

gazzyD wrote:I actually don't see what the problem is with the storyline

That it was predictable - where did the alien invasion end up happening? New York, where almost every disaster/action film takes place so nothing new there. You stop caring after a while when you know New York always gets it! Secondly, the army really wasn't that impressive when you think that 5 superheroes can pretty much destroy it - the Incredible Hulk doing most of the damage himself! Thirdly the invasion wasn't co-ordinated or intelligent as those massive alien serpent things just seemed to crash into buildings rather than strategically target important buildings/people. I just found the plot let the film down, maybe my suggestion needs more thinking through but after a huge build up, interweaving the threads for this film within the marvel universe for it to be so cliche was a let down for me.

Avengers film rights are owned by Marvel (Disney)
Spiderman film right is Sony as is Ghost Rider.
Fantastic Four was 20th century fox but there are rumours that Marvel will get back the licence if Fox don't make another movie ASAP.
Fox also own the Xmen rights so Wolverine wouldn't make any appearances with Hulk unfortunately
Blade is owned by New Line Cinema, Deadpool was too but he's now at Fox. Morbius is also rumoured to be at New Line after a cameo in one of the Blade films.
Punisher is with Lionsgate.

So basically as it stands there's no chance of the likes of Civil War or the Secret Wars happening in the near future,

Actually just found this that goes into more detail and has a couple of amendments to what I wrote above...


20th Century Fox
Daredevil: Daredevil/Matt Murdock, Elektra (Natchios), The Kingpin/Wilson Fisk, Bullseye, Jack Murdock, Karen Page, Ben Urich
Elektra: Christine Cord/Tatoo, Typhoid Mary/Marry Alice Walker, Kirigi, Stick, Stone
Fantastic Four: Doctor Doom/Victor von Doom, Human Torch/Johnny Storm, Invisible Woman/Susan Storm, Mr. Fantastic/Dr. Reed Richards, The Thing/Ben Grimm, Nova/Frankie Raye, Alicia Masters, Willie Lumpkin
X-Men Mutants: [Agent Zero/Maverick/David North], Angel/Warren Worthington III, Arclight/Phillippa Sontag, Beast/Dr. Henry Phillip “Hank” McCoy, [Blob/Frederick J. Dukes], [Bolt/Christopher Bradley], Callisto, Colossus/Piotr Nikolaievitch Rasputin, Cyclops/Scott Summers, [Deadpool/Wade Wilson], Emma (Grace) Frost, Jean Grey/Phoenix, Juggernaut/Cain Marko, Gambit/Remy LeBeau, Glob Herman/Herman Gardner, Iceman/Bobby Drake, Jubilee/Jubilation Lee, Katherine “Kitty” Anne Pryde, [Kestrel/John Wraith], Lady Deathstrike/Yuriko Oyama, Leech, Magneto/Erik Magnus Lehnsherr, Mastermind/Jason (Wyngarde), Multiple Man/James Arthur Madrox, Mystique/Raven Darkholme, Nightcrawler/Kurt Wagner, Phat/William Robert “Billy-Bob” Reilly, Professor Charles Xavier, Psylocke/Elizabeth “Betsy” Braddock, Pyro/St. John Allerdyce, Quill/Max Jordan, Rogue/(Anna) Marie, Sabretooth/Victor Creed, Sebastian Hiram Shaw, [Silver Fox], Siryn/Theresa Rourke Cassidy, (The) Spike, Storm/Ororo Munroe, Wolverine/Logan
X-Men Non-Mutants: Drake Family (Steven, Madeline, Ronny), Grey Family (Dr. John, Elaine), Henry Peter Gyrich, Robert Edward Kelly, Dr. Moira Kinross MacTaggert, Dr. Kavita Rao, William Stryker, Bolivar Trask, Warren Worthington II
New Line Cinema
Vampires: Blade, Deacon Frost, Dracula/Vlad Tepes
Non-Vampires: Hannibal King, Abraham Whistler  [UPDATE: Since the time of writing this, The Blade rights have been transferred back into Marvel's hands.]
Sony Pictures
Ghost Rider: Ghost Rider/Johnny Blaze, Blackheart/Legion, Phantom Rider/Carter Slade, Abigor, Gressil, Mephistopheles, Wallow, Barton Blaze, Roxanne Simpson
Spider-Man: Spider-Man/Peter Parker, Doctor Octopus/Otto Octavius, Green Goblin/Norman Osborn, (New) Green Goblin/Harry Osborn, [The Lizard]/Dr. Curt Connors, Sandman/Flint Marko, Venom/Eddie Brock Jr., Betty Brant, Dennis Carradine (Buglar), J. Jonah Jameson, Ben Parker, May Parker, John Jameson, Joseph “Robbie” Robertson, Gwen Stacy, Mendel Stromm, Flash Thompson
Lionsgate Entertainment
Punisher: The Punisher/Frank Castle, Jigsaw/Billy Russoti, Microchip/Linus Liberman, Joan the Mouse, Maginty, Mr. Bumpo, Spacker Dave, The Russian, Maria Elizabeth Castle, Detective Martin Soap [UPDATE: Since the time of writing this, The Punisher rights have been transferred back into Marvel's hands.]
The possibility of Marvel having complete control of their character properties, like its comic rival DC, is a matter of time.

There's a couple of pages in latest edition of Empire [not sure if out in shops yet - 2 alternative covers featuring Batman and Catwoman] about what Marvel Studios are planning next after Hulk and his Avenging buddies have smashed various box office records. Most of this was already known I think, but the pipeline goes something like: Iron Man 3 (rumoured to be based on "Extremis"), Thor 2 (v Loki plus new villain - not Thanos according to Marvel), Cap America 2 (continuing his coming to terms with the modern day), and then something in 2014 featuring an unnamed character not associated with the Avengers. Vague plans for the Hulk too (Mark Ruffalo on the big screen, a different actor for possible TV series).

Switching franchises for a second, there's also a series of features on The Dark Knight Rises - including an on-set report which they must have been sitting on (and not allowed to publish) for the past year. Still scant details on the plot though, of course.

talkingpoint wrote:

gazzyD wrote:I actually don't see what the problem is with the storyline

That it was predictable - where did the alien invasion end up happening? New York, where almost every disaster/action film takes place so nothing new there. You stop caring after a while when you know New York always gets it! Secondly, the army really wasn't that impressive when you think that 5 superheroes can pretty much destroy it - the Incredible Hulk doing most of the damage himself! Thirdly the invasion wasn't co-ordinated or intelligent as those massive alien serpent things just seemed to crash into buildings rather than strategically target important buildings/people. I just found the plot let the film down, maybe my suggestion needs more thinking through but after a huge build up, interweaving the threads for this film within the marvel universe for it to be so cliche was a let down for me.

If you read the comics you'd know that most of the "Big" named superheroes are based in New York (Spiderman, Daredevil, The Avengers etc etc) so the film being based there isn't really going to be a shock, as for the Alien Army not all of it came through the portal so The Avengers only destroyed what was put in front of them and the Hulk is pretty much the most powerful Superhero in the Marvel Universe so him doing the most damage wasn't a shock either, his comedic type role was more shocking but it worked. If they had some big over thinking plot it wouldn't have been as successful, people other than comic fans would have gotten bored and so would the kids that saw it so the where right in the way they made it simple and easly accessible to everyone

Hero wrote:Avengers film rights are owned by Marvel (Disney)
Spiderman film right is Sony as is Ghost Rider.
Fantastic Four was 20th century fox but there are rumours that Marvel will get back the licence if Fox don't make another movie ASAP.
Fox also own the Xmen rights so Wolverine wouldn't make any appearances with Hulk unfortunately
Blade is owned by New Line Cinema, Deadpool was too but he's now at Fox. Morbius is also rumoured to be at New Line after a cameo in one of the Blade films.
Punisher is with Lionsgate.

So basically as it stands there's no chance of the likes of Civil War or the Secret Wars happening in the near future,

Or maybe one of them will do a crossover anyway, and thereby create a new storyline hearlding the introduction of characters such as The Litigator and Shark-Man (who might contend in court for instance that Grey Hulk is a completely different character than Green Hulk). It occurs to me whilst monologuing here that Disney might have already dipped a toe in these dangerous waters - did anyone see Pixar's The Incredibles, and not notice a similarity to a longstanding family team of superheroes???

Watched this on the weekend and loved it.

Hulk is the best thing in it, when he punches Thor in the side of the head and then destroy's Loki i was wetting myself.

1 question. After the credits there is a scene and the guy who orchestrated the attack is talking to who appears to be Hellboy? Can anyone confirm this?

It's not Hellboy it's the Red Skull from the Captain America film.

hampo171 wrote:It's not Hellboy it's the Red Skull from the Captain America film.

See, i thought that, however his face was stonish like Hellboy, whereas Red Skull wasn't?

Apparently we're both wrong and it's Thanos?

Beer is right it is Thanos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanos Wiki page on him