Simon Mannix - New Munster Backs Coach

by **profitius** Wed 30 May 2012, 2:10 pm

New Munster back coach. He was with Racing Metro, Gloucester and Sale. Anyone know anything about him? How did the Gloucester and Sale teams perform during his time?

by **rodders** Wed 30 May 2012, 2:18 pm

Remember him vaguely as a player, fly-half wasn't he?

His biggest task will be to get O'Gara to stand on the gainline..... Whistle

by Thomond Wed 30 May 2012, 2:49 pm

Seems as if they have a new backs coach, don't watch T14 but the fact they were 4th from last in tries scored is a bit of a concern!

Munster announced today that former All Black Simon Mannix will take up the role of Backs Coach on a two year contract.
The former Hurricanes out-half had playing spells with Sale and Gloucester before moving to France where he has been Backs Coach at Racing Metro for five seasons up to Dec 2011.

A member of the All Blacks squad for three seasons prior to his move to England, he won his full cap against France at Christchurch, Jun 26, 1994.

Commenting on the appointment Munster CEO Garrett Fitzgerald said. "We're delighted that Simon has agreed terms and believe his playing experience in two hemispheres plus his coaching experience at the top level in France will complement the recent appointment of Rob Penney and existing position of Anthony Foley."

Mannix is expected to be in place for pre-season training that commences late June, subject to him securing a work permit.

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/10524.php

by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 30 May 2012, 4:19 pm

rodders wrote:Remember him vaguely as a player, fly-half wasn't he?

His biggest task will be to get O'Gara to stand on the ~~gain~~sideline.....

Fixed that for you, rodders - no charge Whistle

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 30 May 2012, 4:51 pm

Don't know anything about the guy.

Two interesting decisions he and Penny will have to make re: the backs

O'Gara or Keatley
&
Earls or Lualala

Also how do you get Jones, Howlett, Zebo and Earls into a back 3????

by Thomond Wed 30 May 2012, 4:52 pm

You play Earls at full back, and drop Jones. He has not been that good this year.

by red_stag Wed 30 May 2012, 4:54 pm

Thomond wrote:You play Earls at full back, and drop Jones. He has not been that good this year.

+1

Jones has been extremely poor this season. If he gets picked it is just on reputation.

by Guest Wed 30 May 2012, 5:01 pm

I thought it was looking like Tana Umaga was getting that. Anymore on another position for him?

by whocares Wed 30 May 2012, 5:04 pm

He was sacked from racing after 5 years : he paid the bad results of the beginning of their season and his relationship with berbizier and some of the staff was getting bad. he was a bit of pain when it comes to moaning about referees but the racing supporters still view as a genuinely nice guy.

dont think he will go down as one of the best back coach in the history though (and I dont think the kiwis see him as one of their best ever FH as well)

by red_stag Wed 30 May 2012, 5:08 pm

Risca Rev wrote:I thought it was looking like Tana Umaga was getting that. Anymore on another position for him?

Rev, my understanding is that Umaga didn't want to be 3rd choice behind Foley and Penney in the decision making. He originally applied for the head coach position and said was open to working with the new coach but I think would only have come in if Foley was made head coach.

by MunsterMac Wed 30 May 2012, 5:12 pm

red_stag wrote:
Thomond wrote:You play Earls at full back, and drop Jones. He has not been that good this year.

+1

Jones has been extremely poor this season. If he gets picked it is just on reputation.

A bit harsh.

He was coming back from a long term injury and in truth he was no worse than most of the Munster backs this season.

by Guest Wed 30 May 2012, 6:26 pm

red_stag wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:I thought it was looking like Tana Umaga was getting that. Anymore on another position for him?

Rev, my understanding is that Umaga didn't want to be 3rd choice behind Foley and Penney in the decision making. He originally applied for the head coach position and said was open to working with the new coach but I think would only have come in if Foley was made head coach.

Fair enough. Ta thumbsup

by HongKongCherry Wed 30 May 2012, 8:02 pm

profitius wrote:New Munster back coach. He was with Racing Metro, Gloucester and Sale. Anyone know anything about him? How did the Gloucester and Sale teams perform during his time?

He was only a player at Glaws, not amazing but clearly had a decent brain him. I couldn't comment how good a coach he is though.

by **rodders** Wed 30 May 2012, 8:06 pm

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:
rodders wrote:Remember him vaguely as a player, fly-half wasn't he?

His biggest task will be to get O'Gara to stand on the ~~gain~~sideline.....

Fixed that for you, rodders - no charge

you're a bad man ASBO..... Whistle

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Thu 31 May 2012, 7:22 am

red_stag wrote:
Thomond wrote:You play Earls at full back, and drop Jones. He has not been that good this year.

+1

Jones has been extremely poor this season. If he gets picked it is just on reputation.

I wouldn't disagree with that, he's started kicking it a lot more I noticed. Will earls throw a humph or will he take the position and start playing pretty well again? He's always looked dangerous w the ball when at 15.

Rog or keatley for you guys?

Murray-rog/keatley
Downey-lualala
Zebo-earls-howlett

That about right?

by red_stag Thu 31 May 2012, 9:20 am

Pete,

I want ROG out of the team but I dont think Keatley is a good enough player to replace him. I really can't decide which of them I would rather see.

I don't see Earls making a scene to be honest. I think too much is made of his preference to play at centre.

by **rodders** Thu 31 May 2012, 9:20 am

I'd be worried about Jones to be honest, hasn't looked anything like himself this year.

He looks afraid of contact or something, falling off tackles, reluctant to counterattack and unsure under the high ball... not sure if he lacks physical fitness, you'd hope he wouldn't be playing unless he was fit, or the last injury has really knocked his confidence. Either way its a long road back for him now. Good luck to him but maybe he's been to the well too many times already in his short career.

Munster need to show faith in Keatley. If they keep going back to ROG for the big games Munster will never develop a consistant gameplan and Keatley won't develop as a player.

by MunsterMac Thu 31 May 2012, 9:51 am

red_stag wrote: I dont think Keatley is a good enough player to replace him.

Agreed 100%.

Nothing I've seen of him this year has given me confidence that he has either the ability or character to make a top class 10.

by **rodders** Thu 31 May 2012, 9:59 am

The problem is ROG isn't good enough to replace ROG either.

Keatley at least has the capacity to improve whereas ROG is on a downhill spiral.

Munster either need to be bold and forge ahead with new players and a new style of play or go pack to their roots and try and dominate and intimidate teams up front, play the percentages and go for the jugular when the opposition crumbles under pressure.

I'm not sure they have the pack and backrow now to do the latter and the 3rd option, to forge ahead with a new style of play with players in key positions who don't fit that style will lead to more days like they had against the Ospreys in my opinion.

by MunsterMac Thu 31 May 2012, 10:00 am

rodders wrote:I'd be worried about Jones to be honest, hasn't looked anything like himself this year.

He looks afraid of contact or something, falling off tackles, reluctant to counterattack and unsure under the high ball

On the contrary when he first made his comeback he was too fond of contact and was throwing himself into reckless tackles that could have caused him another injury.

If memory serves I think he was the same the last time he made a comeback from a long term injury.

It wouldn't surprise me if someone had a word in his ear to calm it down a bit and work his way back a little more carefully.

In relation to the counterattacking I think he was a victim of the general malase which affected the Munster back play this season. I can clearly remember him taking high balls and looking to attack only to find no one supporting him and having no choice but to take the contact.

A new season, a new coaching setup, a good preseason and a bit of luck with injuries and he should be ok.

by red_stag Thu 31 May 2012, 10:02 am

I'm not sure Mac, I'd be extremely surprised to see him delivering that top level performances again.

by **rodders** Thu 31 May 2012, 10:06 am

The Jones of a year ago would never have missed the tackle on Gilroy, or at least been beaten so easily and there were a few others in the closing weeks of the season. I seriously doubt that is down to the coaches instructions.

by MunsterMac Thu 31 May 2012, 10:39 am

Fairs fair rodders I never said he was under coaches instructions to dial back his defence to the point where he was missing tackles.

There's a difference between calming down on the reckless tackles and making good effective tackles.

All I'm saying is that a player coming back from yet another long term serious injury, playing in a poorly coached, impotent backline which in turn is part of a poorly coached team (imo) should be given the benifit of the doubt.

We'll see.

by Thomond Thu 31 May 2012, 10:42 am

Keatley has looked good at times, poor others. Not many people could replace ROG, he is once in a generation player. With Keatley Munster could actually be better, they could play a more dynamic brand of rugby. With that backline, Keatley would even have to be great if we got flat running and some decent backplay.

by Sin é Thu 31 May 2012, 10:49 am

red_stag wrote:I'm not sure Mac, I'd be extremely surprised to see him delivering that top level performances again.

Howlett back (and a settled back 3) could make a huge difference to him. When he excelled he was playing with Howlett & Earls on the wings.

by Sin é Thu 31 May 2012, 10:52 am

Thomond wrote:Keatley has looked good at times, poor others. Not many people could replace ROG, he is once in a generation player. With Keatley Munster could actually be better, they could play a more dynamic brand of rugby. With that backline, Keatley would even have to be great if we got flat running and some decent backplay.

Keatley (hopefully) will be of a similar standard to Warwick and do for a few years until JJ matures a bit and overtakes him.

by Sin é Thu 31 May 2012, 10:54 am

rodders wrote:The Jones of a year ago would never have missed the tackle on Gilroy, or at least been beaten so easily and there were a few others in the closing weeks of the season. I seriously doubt that is down to the coaches instructions.

I'd put the missed tackles down to Howlett not organising the back 3.

by **rodders** Thu 31 May 2012, 10:57 am

Really Sin, I'd find it very unusual and worrying if your full back needed his winger to help him with positioning.

Usually its the other way round, the fullback organises his wingmen to cover the areas he wants them to.

The full back controls the last line of defence not the wingers.

I'd also hope that Jones knows much more about full back positioning than Doug Howlett.

by Sin é Thu 31 May 2012, 11:36 am

rodders wrote:Really Sin, I'd find it very unusual and worrying if your full back needed his winger to help him with positioning.

Usually its the other way round, the fullback organises his wingmen to cover the areas he wants them to.

The full back controls the last line of defence not the wingers.

I'd also hope that Jones knows much more about full back positioning than Doug Howlett.

Jones wouldn't have to do too much organising of Howlett or Earls tbh and highly unlikely he would have too many last ditch tackles.

Jones has a handfull of professional games to his name. Howlett has hundreds, so I'd expect Howlett to know a thing or two about all back positions.

by **rodders** Thu 31 May 2012, 11:47 am

I wouldn't Sin.

Have you played full back? Fullback is the last line and stands behind the wingers. He's responsible for high balls and organising the back 3. Howletts experience is irrelevent and if he know more about full back positioning than Jones then he'd be there himself, not Jones.

If the right wing is looking over his shoulder to wonder where the fullback is standing there is something very wrong with Munsters defence.

Wingers should take responsibilty for his inside man (the centres) to fan out or in but the Fullback acts as the sweeper so is responsible for his own positioning no one else.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 31 May 2012, 11:51 am

There are two positions where defensive positioning is key, and probably the two hardest positions to defend from: 13, and 15.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 31 May 2012, 11:53 am

Also I feel for Jones, I really do. I'm not sure he will ever make it, as he is so injury prone and this time it seems to have taken its toll. He will certainly be behind in his development at this rate. Last year he was a rock in defence, and looked even better than Kearney (or at least potentially he did). Now he looks a shadow of that player. Sad really.

by **rodders** Thu 31 May 2012, 12:02 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:There are two positions where defensive positioning is key, and probably the two hardest positions to defend from: 13, and 15.

Really Rory I'd have said 11, 14 and 15. The further out you are the more space either side, and behind you that you need to defend but inversely the less tackles you are likely to make. Thats my pennysworth anyways.

The point is that the 15 is on his jack todd at the back, not part of the defensive line, and has to be responsible for his own positioning and also pull the wingers about to where he needs them to cover kicks through.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 31 May 2012, 12:25 pm

rodders wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:There are two positions where defensive positioning is key, and probably the two hardest positions to defend from: 13, and 15.

Really Rory I'd have said 11, 14 and 15. The further out you are the more space either side, and behind you that you need to defend but inversely the less tackles you are likely to make. Thats my pennysworth anyways.

The point is that the 15 is on his jack todd at the back, not part of the defensive line, and has to be responsible for his own positioning and also pull the wingers about to where he needs them to cover kicks through.

13 is the toughest by far,I hated it there.Full back is more like a goalkeeper,you might have nothing to do for 70 minutes but when called on you can't mess up.12 was the easiest I always felt as an outside back but wing wasn't tough generally if you made your one on one tackles you were okay it was rare you'd have a really difficult decision out there.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 31 May 2012, 12:35 pm

Also while the full back does most of the organising within the back 3 since he can see everything better it's a team effort.Your wingers will call you into position if they see something you've missed and there are times you'll find yourself out of position (maybe at the bottom of a ruck) and other players will cover you.

by **rodders** Thu 31 May 2012, 12:38 pm

I don't disagree with that asro but the point is that the fullback shouldn't be reliant on a winger to guide him with his positioning at this level. He's the man at the back and needs to position himself and organise the men in front.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 31 May 2012, 12:45 pm

Yeah I'd agree in general but a young player can always do with a bit of advice,it's part of the learning curve.

You can't wait until his positioning is perfect before giving him a chance there's a certain amount of learning on the job and I'm sure that playing at a higher level means you have different things to worry about than you're used to.

by **rodders** Thu 31 May 2012, 12:58 pm

OK I'll go back to the original point... I don't believe he missed any of the tackles that he did or dropped the high balls because Doug Howlett wasn't there.

I believe he missed them because physically and mentally he hasn't looked anywhere near right since his last injury and given the volume of serious injuries he's had I'd be concerned that he may not get back to the fantastic player he was.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 31 May 2012, 1:07 pm

Yeah I'd go along with that,there's no real way of knowing for sure but his track record doesn't look good.

Some peoples bodies just aren't cut out for professional sport.A cousin of mine told me about a guy he went to school with,he said he was the fittest guy he's ever seen and this guy got a youth contract with Tottenham Hotspurs.He never got anywhere as he just kept getting injured,his body wasn't able to take the abuse you get from constant training and playing but if you don't do the training you'll never be fit enough to match the guys you're up against.

by **rodders** Thu 31 May 2012, 1:19 pm

Unfortunately that is just true.... and coming back from injuries is very hard, even with the best rehab and surgery there is always a weakness there and to have so many serious injuries so early in his career is very worrying.

Then again look at Ferris, he had a terrible run of injuries for years and this year he's played better than ever.

by nganboy Fri 01 Jun 2012, 1:14 am

Yeah and now look where he is

by thebandwagonsociety Fri 01 Jun 2012, 3:31 pm

At the start of this season Keatley was in a far better position to seems to have gone backwards in a lot of peoples eyes.
Jones was also on the verge of the RWC squad with plenty on these boards putting a case forward that he was better than Kearney who can only catch and kick.
I read down through the above and it looks like their being written off.
Is that a fair comment?

by **rodders** Fri 01 Jun 2012, 4:04 pm

I'm not writing either off, Keatley has looked OK at times but has suffered from a lack of gametime I think. Certainly he's been leapfrogged by Madigan and maybe even Jackson in the Irish pecking order.

Jones has looked a shadow of himself since returning from another long term injury and now he's out again. He's still young enough but things don't look great for him I think.

Thats my take on things amyways.

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