England v Belgium Friendly

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Should be a good 'un. I'll say 3-1 England. Be interesting to see how Hazard does.

what are these cliches you speak of. Are you talking about 'They can't put 5 passes together' in which you vividly contested all credit to you, and proved to me England did indeed at some point play more than 5 passes together.

Or was it 'Possession is key to winning intl football matches' in which case you thought I meant you needed to have 60-70% possession in order to win, in which is clearly not the point I was making, I was alluding to the fact you cannot give away possession cheaply other wise the better teams will beat you.

Are we really going to judge England based on friendlies, games where the intensity is half of a real game. Judge England after we have beaten France. You cannot judge based on 180 minutes of glorified training matches.

martyr_94 wrote:what are these cliches you speak of. Are you talking about 'They can't put 5 passes together' in which you vividly contested all credit to you, and proved to me England did indeed at some point play more than 5 passes together.

Or was it 'Possession is key to winning intl football matches' in which case you thought I meant you needed to have 60-70% possession in order to win, in which is clearly not the point I was making, I was alluding to the fact you cannot give away possession cheaply other wise the better teams will beat you.

that is the cliche- the actual point you are trying to make. and its a double cliche

NO team has a game plan to give away cheap possesion, they give away possesion from a poor skill set in that area , because of a bad system or because they are playing bad.

Teams win more because they are better than the team that wins less.

Us england fans understand our pitfalls and some how the manager needs to do the upmost to cut out errors, improve on a system and play to our strengths, so we can maximise our tourny

Not so much a cliche as fact really.

all cliches are true or have elemnts of truth in them- but there are just pointless to a debate- that is what a cliche is!

No Mys its fact if you give the ball away cheaply you tend to lose the game..

correct marty- when have i said that isnt the case?

Its not really my fault that you dont know what a cliche is pal!

In other news, Cahill and Terry are off for scans, jaw and hamstring respectively. Chances are we could lose another before the Euros begin. Bloody Mertens.

Mys-I know what a cliche is, its still applicable after today's game though.

My god, England could lose some players going into the Euro's. Pressure completely off Roy, god help them if Gerrard or Parker get injured or suspended, could be seeing Milner and Henderson in cm aaaahhhh!!!

mystiroakey wrote:all cliches are true or have elemnts of truth in them- but there are just pointless to a debate- that is what a cliche is!

Not strictly correct your definition.

This is all getting a bit pedantic anyway.

England grnuinely need to keep the ball better now, rather than it just being desirable as it was in the past.

No its not- we didnt have a game plan to give away possesion -we allways have done it. The comment you made is overused and trite, its a classic cliche and doesnt help anything or anyone. The manager knows we gave the ball away cheaply and he knows if we give better teams chances they will beat us. We all have accepted we are not gonna win this. The only slim chance we have tho is to maximise our strengths and luckily for us they balance the problem we have(giving away cheap possesion)- clinical finishing and a solid defensive base.

Just because i find your comment trite doesnt mean i dont agree with your sentement- but i am realistic to engalnds problems thats all. I am not gonna have a go at a team that has played winning football, i will concentrate on the positives understanding we are playing flat.

Ent wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:all cliches are true or have elemnts of truth in them- but there are just pointless to a debate- that is what a cliche is!

Not strictly correct your definition.

This is all getting a bit pedantic anyway.

England grnuinely need to keep the ball better now, rather than it just being desirable as it was in the past.

I appreciate your input Ent, i'm not getting anywhere atm. I think England will do well to get out of their group, Sweden as someone else alluded to earlier, could be the game see's England eliminated. However, on the flip side, they could well be be through after that Sweden game. Football is a funny o'l game

The fact remains that international football is and always will be a possession based game, anybody that disputes that needs to go back to the drawing board. Giving the ball away at will and pinging Hollywood passes in the hope that they are pulled off is the sporting equivalent of pinning the tail on the donkey. That's not a cliche it's a metaphor by the way.

Sometimes we need to wake up and smell the coffee. England are a second tier (at best) footballing side and yes I am English but I am just as much realistic. I'd love a hit of that enthusiasm that Duty has but after fail after fail it's only natural that I expect yet another early exit from an international tournament because if history tells us anything it's we'll fall flat on out face once more.

This England team is the worse since the Graham Taylor era and as much as some want to sugar coat it the fact is just that.

To quote Arsene Wenger. "everybody thinks they have the prettiest wife at home." The fact is we are living with a pig!

Belgium have a good team. Some good players who could get into Europa League teams or teams who are just out of the reach of Europe easily and would probably be one of there better players.

The only downfall is that they play the wrong style of play, hard tackling and fouling. Fellaini is good at that but they should mix it up and use all of there players best abilities to their advantage and then combined them to make one big force. They would be a better team then.

Yours isnt a cliche at all- yours is a statement and then a metaphor. Not gonna say if its a good statement or a good metapohre but there you go!

On to england- I cant see england being out or through after the second game- we allways do it the hard way- it will be nail biting and we will just scrap though last game!

I hope England make it out of the group, always makes the tournament that more interesting being Welsh, its the one time I support England at football

Belgium have a good team.

Not a team good enough to frankly embarass us at home. If they played a striker we'd have been in trouble.

I'm willing to give Hodgson the benefit of the doubt for the Euros, he took over a doomed ship 2 weeks before it was set to sail. Post Euros I'm hoping for a midfield featuring the likes of Wilshere and Rodwell rather than rehashed has beens like Gerrard or Lampard

mystiroakey wrote:Yours isnt a cliche at all- yours is a statement and then a metaphor. Not gonna say if its a good statement or a good metapohre but there you go!

On to england- I cant see england being out or through after the second game- we allways do it the hard way- it will be nail biting and we will just scrap though last game!

I said it wasn't a cliche. Do you even know what a metaphor is?

martyr_94 wrote:I hope England make it out of the group, always makes the tournament that more interesting being Welsh, its the one time I support England at football

Lets merge like we do in cricket. We finally get a left winger who isn't absolute balls and you get a team that occasionally does something!

FreekShow wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Yours isnt a cliche at all- yours is a statement and then a metaphor. Not gonna say if its a good statement or a good metapohre but there you go!

On to england- I cant see england being out or through after the second game- we allways do it the hard way- it will be nail biting and we will just scrap though last game!

I said it wasn't a cliche. Do you even know what a metaphor is?

what are you talking about. i agreed with you- your initial comment was a statement- then you used a metophore alluding to the fact that playing a certain style is a lottery.

mystiroakey wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Yours isnt a cliche at all- yours is a statement and then a metaphor. Not gonna say if its a good statement or a good metapohre but there you go!

On to england- I cant see england being out or through after the second game- we allways do it the hard way- it will be nail biting and we will just scrap though last game!

I said it wasn't a cliche. Do you even know what a metaphor is?

what are you talking about. i agreed with you- your initial comment was a statement- then you used a metophore alluding to the fact that playing a certain style is a lottery.

Okay mystri, my bad.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:I hope England make it out of the group, always makes the tournament that more interesting being Welsh, its the one time I support England at football

Lets merge like we do in cricket. We finally get a left winger who isn't absolute balls and you get a team that occasionally does something!

Haha, two good stadiums to play in, although I can't see it happening myself

no worries to you and to all- we all kinda agree - its just i prefer a more optimistic outlook.

wheres duty when you need him?

martyr_94 wrote:

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:I hope England make it out of the group, always makes the tournament that more interesting being Welsh, its the one time I support England at football

Lets merge like we do in cricket. We finally get a left winger who isn't absolute balls and you get a team that occasionally does something!

Haha, two good stadiums to play in, although I can't see it happening myself

would you mind?

i doubt the average englisman would- and i wouldnt allthough i am far from average..(take that anyway you like)

FA to make decision on Sunday whether Cahill goes to the Euro's. More injury worries. Wonder who will deputise if he is indeed out, Jones or Jageilka.

mystiroakey wrote:no worries to you and to all- we all kinda agree - its just i prefer a more optimistic outlook.

wheres duty when you need him?

My optimism died the moment Gareth Southgate fluffed that penalty. Oh how I cried mystir!! It pains me even more seeing him on analysis. The horse face.

Graeme Swann's Cat wrote:

martyr_94 wrote:I hope England make it out of the group, always makes the tournament that more interesting being Welsh, its the one time I support England at football

Lets merge like we do in cricket. We finally get a left winger who isn't absolute balls and you get a team that occasionally does something!

You also get a proper CM in Joe Allen!

martyr_94 wrote:FA to make decision on Sunday whether Cahill goes to the Euro's. More injury worries. Wonder who will deputise if he is indeed out, Jones or Jageilka.

Jags everyday of the week for me.

FreekShow wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:no worries to you and to all- we all kinda agree - its just i prefer a more optimistic outlook.

wheres duty when you need him?

My optimism died the moment Gareth Southgate fluffed that penalty. Oh how I cried mystir!! It pains me even more seeing him on analysis. The horse face.

well i remeber that game and croydon got trashed after-I was in a pub next to the palace shop which got destroyed(southgate used to play for us) and then the whole of croydon got battered - i hid in a snooker club lol and drunk myself silly.,

mystiroakey wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:no worries to you and to all- we all kinda agree - its just i prefer a more optimistic outlook.

wheres duty when you need him?

My optimism died the moment Gareth Southgate fluffed that penalty. Oh how I cried mystir!! It pains me even more seeing him on analysis. The horse face.

well i remeber that game and croydon got trashed after-I was in a pub next to the palace shop which got destroyed(southgate used to play for us) and then the whole of croydon got battered - i hid in a snooker club lol and drunk myself silly.,

Mate I remember it like it was yesterday. Truly heartbreaking stuff. The last time I walked away from a football match with a wee tear in my eye. And why did Paul Ince not take a penalty? Not impressed Paul, not impressed...

sad times, but at the same time i still remember the good times during the tournies we did ok in..

especially 96

mystiroakey wrote:sad times, but at the same time i still remember the good times during the tournies we did ok in..

especially 96

I actually think, from a footballing perspective, that our France 98 team was better but we had some awful luck in that Argentina game. What was wrong with that Campbell goal by the way?

nothing at all- could have sworn it was v portugal tho lol- the two portugal games must have come in 2000 and 2002 then- blimey my memory

Something about climbing.

Odd since he used his own teammate iirc.

mystiroakey wrote:nothing at all- could have sworn it was v portugal tho lol- the two portugal games must have come in 2000 and 2002 then- blimey my memory

Argentina and Portugal (I forgot about that one)

Portugal was 2004.

omg was that the rooney v ronaldo game as well!!!

mystiroakey wrote:omg was that the rooney v ronaldo game as well!!!

No that was 2006!! At least the sending off was!!

I thought that was 2006 when Rooney stood on Carvahlo's manly parts, or lack of them when Rooney lifted his foot.

Rooney got injured in the Portugal game at Euro 2004, and sent off in the World Cup 2006.

I think England fans have this weird issue where it's either we're awful or amazing.

We're okay. We'll probably get out of the group stages, and yes, most likely leave it to the last game. I think we could genuinely just about get to the semis. While the friendly performances haven't been great, we've won both and kept two clean sheets. If this was Manchester United, it would be called winning like champions, grinding out results, which is what United do against lesser sides, and it's what we have done. We did give the ball away too much, but they were friendly games, it's to be expected.

Difference is though Crimey, utd have got the trophies to get away with it, England can't exactly use that excuse can they.

The first time i cried was 1990, I watched the 1986 but i dont think i was the biggest footy fan at 8 years old.

So many dissapointemnts for england fans- its almost tragic

martyr_94 wrote:Difference is though Crimey, utd have got the trophies to get away with it, England can't exactly use that excuse can they.

We don't normally grind out 1-0 results, we normally thrash smaller nations and then get caught out against the bigger sides.

martyr_94 wrote:Difference is though Crimey, utd have got the trophies to get away with it, England can't exactly use that excuse can they.

yes but we are not writing of other teams based on much worse friendly performances.

and no we are not using any excuses, we are just playing football the way we play

i honestly cant believe that belgium are ranked 44th in the world- they are so much better in fairness. they have only lost to england and germany in the last 17 games as well

It's difficult to gauge anything from a friendly though. It's not as if the Belgians had anything to play for, ie vying for starting spots in the Euros. But two clean sheets are two clean sheets which is a positive.

I just think people need to be slightly more realistic when they look at things. Claiming that we're awful is just as bad as saying we're going to win the whole thing.

We're not quite on the same level as Germany, Netherlands or Spain, maybe even France. But I would still say that we're probably around the level of Italy, Portugal. We're not amazing, we underachieve a lot, but on our day we do actually have quite a bit in the locker.

I think the friendly performances were just boring. The most important thing is that we got two wins and two clean sheets which shows at least some promise.

Crimey wrote:I just think people need to be slightly more realistic when they look at things. Claiming that we're awful is just as bad as saying we're going to win the whole thing.

We're not quite on the same level as Germany, Netherlands or Spain, maybe even France. But I would still say that we're probably around the level of Italy, Portugal. We're not amazing, we underachieve a lot, but on our day we do actually have quite a bit in the locker.

I think the friendly performances were just boring. The most important thing is that we got two wins and two clean sheets which shows at least some promise.

But do we underachieve? If we exit at the quarter final stage is that not our expected level anyway?

Yer but rankings mean nothing, I mean England are 7th and I remember only a few years back the USA were like 5th. You can see why Belgium failed to qualify down to the fact they've got no striker. Lukaku looks a shocking prospect in my opinion for Chelsea and he's got no pace whatsoever. Must admit Hazard was a big disappointment, I guess his international record says it all about him and the fact Ligue 1 is hardly a top league. Also what does it say if the manager leaves to take up some dire job back in Belgium with Brugge?

They've got a great bunch of young talented players but as a team there quite poor and that was highlighted today in failing to score or beat an appaling England. They've got Croatia & Serbia in their World Cup qualifying group which in my opinion will be difficult to progress.

if thats our expected level then we are not a rubbish team