2 full backs for england

It would appear Lancaster is considering playing Foden and Brown in the first test against the boks, the idea is to counter the kick chase game the boks are so proficient at and are likely to employ under Meyer. Foden switching to wing and Brown coming in at full back to deal with the high kicks from the likes of M Steyn, F steyn and Lambie is a distinct possibility. Another option would be to start with Monye on the wing.
You would think that Foden and Ashton are nailed on to start in the back 3 and there is one place up for grabs; with strettle, Monye, wade and brown the contenders, who do you think is most likely to start?

I reckon it'll be Strettle. Not saying it should be, but I think it will be.

HQ matt wrote:It would appear Lancaster is considering playing Foden and Brown in the first test against the boks,

What has sparked that thought?

I read that foden has been training on the wing.

I think I remember Foden scoring a hat trick on the wing for Sale once. He could do a decent job there. But why move a world class player to a weaker position to accommodate an average player?

Maybe hes been training there because lancaster never has wing cover on his bench?
The only back three option he would have is to bring Brown on.

Its not impossible he will start on the wing though, Strettle offers about the same attacking threat as the Swiss navy (although youd think that would make him a lancaster favourite). It never hurts to have two players comfortable under the high ball and able to return it on foot or with the boot. Of course Ugo Monye also exists

Let Brown have his International chance before you call him average please?!

But, yeah, Foden on the wing, that I'm not sold on, unless it's as cover as very intelligently suggested by PSW

Training on the wing? Anyone would think we have no good out and out wingers.

I think it could be more to find a space for Brown whose boot will be a useful weapon vs. SA.

SA will play a very structured game with specialist kickers all over the backline (Morne, Frans & Lambie). If ENG go into the match with Farrell only they will get a hiding.

Certainly an option he should consider.

Foden is good enough to play wing and Strettle hasn't exactly set the world on fire (albeit with limited options playing for a ultra conservative ENG team).

Playing a kicking game from deep plays into their hands. They can kick long all day and pressure our lineout. I think our best hope is to counter attack from deep. Foden is clearly the better counter attacking option, and I feel he is most dangerous when playing in close proximity to Ashton.

Sorry to call Brown average CJ, it may have been harsh but to be honest I don't think he will ever be a top international. Foden will be around for a while and there are other exciting youngsters coming though at 15. If Foden were injured any time soon I have no doubt Brown could step in and do fine, but he is not banging the door down hard enough to justify moving other players.

Right Jeff if the plan were to engage the Boks in a kicking duel i think England would be denying themselves their potential strength (again) of having some quality strike runners in the backs.
But look at it like this..what exactly did strettle do in the 6 nations? Tackle. If they think SA rae going top kick to them his tackling becomes less important and having someone good under the high ball becomes more important. Id argue both Brown and Foden are Strettles equal when it comes to running the ball back, they dont have to kick it but are capable when running isnt on.
England have played like that effectively with Cueto./Armitage/Monye as a half way house between winger and fullback.

Oh I am not saying I'd play Strettle if I were choosing, I just think it's what SL will do. We already know he loves a good defender. I was actually a big fan of Strettle when he was at Quins but since moving to Saracens it looks like all the creativity has been drilled out of him.

If I were choosing I would go for Jono Joseph in the absence of Charlie Sharples. I'd like to see a bit more of Wade but I feel that his size will count against him. I think there are too few wingers on tour. I'd have taken Jonny May and he could have been a potential test winger.

i think monye would be a more sensible choice at wing than strettle but i have to admit i wouldnt mind seeing foden and brown involved from the start, brown has a big boot and it could be useful.

I don't think Strettle is a stronger defender than Monye or Brown at all. Certainly wasn't when he was at Quins.

Defending is not one of Strettle's strong points. In the 6N he made 21 tackles, but missed 7, so 1 in 4. In the AP this season he made 50 tackles but missed 17, which is 1 in 3. In the HC he made 23 tackles but missed 8, again 1 in 3.

If he does start Brown & Foden that could well mean he is thinking of giving Joseph the bench spot.

stlowe wrote:If he does start Brown & Foden that could well mean he is thinking of giving Joseph the bench spot.

Now that last bit I like. Foden on the wing wouldn't be my first choice, but I reckon he'll do alright there and it's a good way to ease the new lad in without putting too much pressure on him, as well as giving Brown his well deserved shot.

Strettle just doesn't quite do it for me, a shade too much of the questionable in with the good. Monye is decent, but I think he's behind other fit and upcoming options. Wade looks a great prospect and I'm sure will add a number of caps to his name, but Joseph playing centre/wing looks the sharpest at the moment.

Why do you guys persist with Strettle?

The idea replicate the all blacks approach to SA with Jane/Dagg play on the wing and keep three full backs in the back three. But I am worried Brown not having the same talents as a Jane.

Foden is suspicious in defence at the moment and might be another reason for switching to a wing.

We need an all around winger with talent like Cueto.

Foden suspicious in defence? There must be 2 Foden's, one I've never seen before.

RubyGuby wrote:Why do you guys persist with Strettle?

Stuart Lancaster is the only person who can answer this. Nobody else knows.

One up tackle is ok but his positional get him embarrasing and some problem with get up for the ball under pressure, also prone to make the silly blood to the head like quick throw in to himselves or push the pass for miracle breakout.

I don't recall any of those things ever happening. We are discussing Ben Foden yes?

i dont think we have persisted with strettle, yet. if he is selected for the first test then you could say he has been persisted with. He was selected for the 6 nations and was largely underwhelming but england really didnt make much use of their back 3.

jeffwinger wrote:I don't recall any of those things ever happening. We are discussing Ben Foden yes?

Maybe you not watching the world cup!

The World Cup? Argentina and Scotland were turgid affairs in which no player particularly stood out. The backs barely had any go forward ball but there were no problems defensively. Georgia and Romania were fairly straightforward wins where England's defence wasn't tested. France was a horrendous performance by the whole team except possibly Ben Foden, the only player to emerge from that game with a bit of credit!

Are you serious?

Well you can keeping to your opinion but I am seeing again and again this issues of lack the composure and I think if is not changing the place you will see again... I will be here for saying "I tell you so already" when is happening next!

Foden is a great broken field runner, but Brown is stronger at staying on his feet in the tackle and making yards in heavy traffic. In a physical game, that could be what England need. Plus, I like the idea of Brown drawing a couple of defenders and being able to release Foden in a bit of space.

Strettle has for some time been the England winger most likely to create something out of nothing, but his defence has always had weak spots. Joseph might emerge as a better option, but I guess we will see.

For me the only issue with Foden is that he often refuses to admit It's not on and will run down a blind alley rather than kick which can leave him at the bottom of a ruck which is problematic if England then get turned over (I'm thinking the game vs Wales in the 6N). Brown's big boot could come in handy but Foden on the wing will be a complete waste unless England have an attacking flyhalf to bring him and Ashton into the game.

If Farrell is at 10 then Foden must play 15 as otherwise the backline will lack a spark.

Correct Sam whatever are you known as now.

Always big celebrate about one thing Foden does when is working but then are forgotten 10 other times he try and make a mess and losing the game.

I can think of a lot of examples but cant remember exactly the games.

Always big celebrate about one thing Foden does when is working but then are forgotten 10 other times he try and make a mess and losing the game.

WTF?

To anyone calling Brown average, I genuinely think Brown could be a better player than Foden on the international stage.

Don't get me wrong I rate Foden highly. However, Brown really has been something special this season for Quins.

He has a huge boot on him, which more often than not results in a great big touch finder and relieves pressure.

What I like most about Brown is that he knows when to play it safe and when to have a go, and when he does have a go he usually beats at least three defenders and creates a lot of space for his team sucking in defenders.

For anyone who thinks he lacks pace, think again. He is very quick and could probably give Foden a run for his money. His acceleration has been very impressive this season for Quins.

He's also very solid under the high ball, arguably better than Foden in that respect, whilst his covering tackling and outstanding positioning has been a massive highlight for Quins this season.

I agree Robshaw4England this is what I try to say so badly by the grammatic and upsetting the bluesmancomthe.

And now misspelling where you don't normally...

Robshaw

Do you really think Brown has that much pace? Acceleration? to match Foden?

Brown has worked on his speed with Margot Wells for a number of seasons and is, from memory, the second quickest in the Quins squad over 40m after George Lowe ( another player whose speed isn't obvious). He is quick - what he doesn't have is Foden's change of direction. The compensation for that is that he's very strong in the tackle and stays on his feet long enough not to get isolated.

Brown and Foden could work well, Brown enters the line a lot and looks to pass to his wingers once he's beaten the first man, if Foden or Ashton were outside him then they'd get a lot of ball.

Foden is very quick but doesn't look to pass often, in fact he really plays more like a winger at 15 then a true fb.

And then getting to have Joseph at 22 would be brilliant.

Ignore AWOP i'm faily sure he's a WUM.