vitali's next defense

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according to bild.de (german sports site) vitalis next defense is likely to be unbeated manuel charr, WBC international silver heavyweight champion. the guy has beat danny williams a year ago, and won a MD over zack page. he is german, 27 so quite young for a heavyweight and 21-0-0 with 11 KOs

this fight is a huge waste of time, someone who struggles with zage page doesnt stand a chance with either klitskho.

with vitali having 2-3 fights left tops i'd have expected him to go for a more well known name.

are they even any fights left out there for him that add to his legacy at this stage?

azania wrote:There was a deal on the table prior to Vitali fighting Chisora. Something happened for Booth to start accusing Boente of being dishonest during the melee.

Booth was shouting that they were agreeing to the terms that had been offered months before. Boente was saying you had your chance then, now get in line. Booth was raging.

Again though, it didnt make any difference in the end because not long after he got another offer to fight Vitali. And waited until the Chisora fight had been set up before claiming to agree to it.

Booth himself said he was offered a contract to fight Vitali, he said he only agreed to the terms after the Chisora fight had been set up, and claims that he heard nothing back from K2 on it.

Boente says more or less the same thing, and that by agreeing to fight Chisora, Booth had in essence chosen that fight over a clash with Vitali in September.

In terms of the offer. There isnt actually that much they are disagreeing on. Boente wont sign up to a fight in September with Haye/Vitali if Haye is fighting Chisora first in between (shades of Chisora/Wlad in 2011).

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:There was a deal on the table prior to Vitali fighting Chisora. Something happened for Booth to start accusing Boente of being dishonest during the melee.

Booth was shouting that they were agreeing to the terms that had been offered months before. Boente was saying you had your chance then, now get in line. Booth was raging.

Again though, it didnt make any difference in the end because not long after he got another offer to fight Vitali. And waited until the Chisora fight had been set up before claiming to agree to it.

Booth himself said he was offered a contract to fight Vitali, he said he only agreed to the terms after the Chisora fight had been set up, and claims that he heard nothing back from K2 on it.

Boente says more or less the same thing, and that by agreeing to fight Chisora, Booth had in essence chosen that fight over a clash with Vitali in September.

In terms of the offer. There isnt actually that much they are disagreeing on. Boente wont sign up to a fight in September with Haye/Vitali if Haye is fighting Chisora first in between (shades of Chisora/Wlad in 2011).

If Boente was saying get in line, why shouldn't Haye take another fight just in case Boente throws another curveball? The man has already shown he is willing to play games. Just that Haye plays the game better.

Personally I don't know who is telling the truth in all this, but in this instance and being impartial (for once) given that Boente can change his mind like the british weather, I can hardly blame Haye for taking an easier and big money fight in the interim. He is hoping that Vit gets older and more beatable.

Because he offered Haye a contract to fight Vitali soon after the fight. The problem was, a much juicier fight had come along after the brawl and Haye wanted that.

I dont even think either side is lying in this one. Boente is saying they offered Haye a deal to fight Vitali in Spetember and that Haye chose to fight Chisora in July.

Booth more or less concurs, but says he accepted both the agreements to fight Chisora in July and Vitali in September.

Boente says this is unaccpetable. Its one or the other. And obviously, Haye prefers Chisora in July.

Why does Chisora end up between Haye and K2?

The fight with Vit will happen and probably in Nov/Dec.

Strange how they offer the fight once he has another fight lined up don't you think?

They werent offered after? Booth agreed terms after which probably means they were negotiating for months

Not what either party says Shah, it is made clear that any offer that was made prior to the brawl had been withdrawn, if Vitali had taken on a half credible opponent I may be more willing to believe the Boente BS.

There was no secret they had been negotiating. Haye clearly thinks he can beat Chisora and the Vitali fight will still be there. He's probably right as well the German TV company RTL were apparently very keen on Haye v Vitali.

I thought Booth said - Vitali offered a contract and I agreed to the terms after the chisora fight was set up??? Maybe I misread it.

Having reconsidered my position and read all the arguments put forward I would like to go on record as saying it seems clear to me that Vitali is ducking Haye, on balance Haye does have a record of being a straight shooter when it comes to discussing what he will and will not do during his heavyweight career and think it was pretty clear during his herculean effort in trying to wrestle the belts away from Klitschko Jnr that there was plenty in that performance to give Vitali many a sleepless night. Case closed as far as I am concerned, just glad I have finally been able to see the light.

Vitali is fighting a bum then retiring at end of year. Case closed to all. Guten Nacht!

I think Vitali and Haye will happen in September if both win their next bouts. WBC may be an issue though.

rowley wrote:Having reconsidered my position and read all the arguments put forward I would like to go on record as saying it seems clear to me that Vitali is ducking Haye, on balance Haye does have a record of being a straight shooter when it comes to discussing what he will and will not do during his heavyweight career and think it was pretty clear during his herculean effort in trying to wrestle the belts away from Klitschko Jnr that there was plenty in that performance to give Vitali many a sleepless night. Case closed as far as I am concerned, just glad I have finally been able to see the light.

A U-turn worthy of a conservative and done with as much sincerity.

I actually believe you had it spot on in your previous post. I have seen nothing from Haye that would trouble Vitali. The only Klitchco that Haye has a chance against is the mother and only if she hasn't been given her nightly hot beverage and so feeling a little out of sorts.

azania wrote:There was a deal on the table prior to Vitali fighting Chisora. Something happened for Booth to start accusing Boente of being dishonest during the melee.

I believe the something that happened was the smell of opportunism.

Obviously believing everything that Boente and K2 say seems the logical path with nothing to back it up with.

Talk like this reminds me of the speculative back pages of red tops. If you are not on the inside then you DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING. It's just hear say, rumour after rumour. Promoters are all as bent as each other. People will believe their gut instinct and even argue over a misplaced hunch. I'm happily aware i know nothing. I just wanna see a good fight and everything else is BS

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Obviously believing everything that Boente and K2 say seems the logical path with nothing to back it up with.

I personally would not trust any promoter but unless if it is choice between trusting someone who be well be a little creative with the truth but for who there is no real evidence beyond speculation or conjecture or someone who can be proven to be a barefaced liar when it comes to his heavyweight career believing Boente certainly seems the lesser of the two evils to me.

rowley wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Obviously believing everything that Boente and K2 say seems the logical path with nothing to back it up with.

I personally would not trust any promoter but unless if it is choice between trusting someone who be well be a little creative with the truth but for who there is no real evidence beyond speculation or conjecture or someone who can be proven to be a barefaced liar when it comes to his heavyweight career believing Boente certainly seems the lesser of the two evils to me.

[b]

Huh? How is Haye a liar?

Has said in the past he would never fight Harrison, went on to do just that, said he would only return for a Klitschko before returning for someone who is very much not a member of the family and also said in the wake of the brawl he had no intention of fighting Chisora as he was not at his level before signing to fight him. That's three reasons off the top of my head.

So what? K2 said after the brawl that they wanted nothing to do with Haye. A week later they were talking to him about a fight. Not only that, they keep this holier than thou attitude which is the polar opposite of what they do. Give them a pass eh.

Not at all if they have done that they are not a deal better than Haye but do find it amusing that in Haye you have someone who has shown a pretty frequent inability to do as he says or to tell the truth about what is happening in his career but every time he says one or both of the brothers are ducking him there are still people willing to believe him.

As I have said previously I am on the fence because Booth and Boente did not copy me in on the emails but I am quite certain when it comes to Haye I take a lot of convincing to believe anything he says because there are only so many times a person can make you look stupid before it starts to reflect rather poorly on you.

while i have disagreed with rowley on the matter, i think vitali would beat haye.

i think haye COULD beat vitali, but i dont think he would.

rowley wrote:Not at all if they have done that they are not a deal better than Haye but do find it amusing that in Haye you have someone who has shown a pretty frequent inability to do as he says or to tell the truth about what is happening in his career but every time he says one or both of the brothers are ducking him there are still people willing to believe him.

As I have said previously I am on the fence because Booth and Boente did not copy me in on the emails but I am quite certain when it comes to Haye I take a lot of convincing to believe anything he says because there are only so many times a person can make you look stupid before it starts to reflect rather poorly on you.

All your criticisms of Haye applies to K2 also. As far as I know, Haye doesn't try to inconvenience the opposing boxer an hour before the ring walk though.

I haven't heard say K2 are ducking him.

To be honest, you don't seem to be on the fence here. No splinters on your rear end. You appear to be on the side of K2.

Am on the fence when it comes to apportioning blame as I was with Mayweather Manny because there is that much PR and BS put out there unless you are privy to all the facts devoid of spin it is impossible to know. I know with this one who I am more inclined to believe and that is definitely K2 because saying you are not interested in a guy and then going onto negotiate with him is a world away from point blank saying you will not fight guys and then going on to fight him because it is entirely possible and likely negotiations go on with countless fighters and potential opponents behind closed doors and quite obviously negotiating with a guy and following through are quite different things.

Also from an entirely practical point of view I cannot for the life of me see what Haye has demonstrated at heavyweight to give any heavyweight of a basic level of competence, which Vitali certainly is, sleepless nights.

simply the fact he knocked everyone out at cruiser means he would be a decent heavyweight - thats the state of the division at the moment.

you'd be a fool to pick the likes of adamek and aroela above him and both are highly rated (top 10) fighters. who'd beat him? thompson? only the brothers in my opinion. helenius was troubled by chisora who (in my opinion and the bookies) will be an easy night for haye.

He may well be the third best in the world, personally think Solis beats him but would not stake my life on it, however there is a world of difference between being the third best heavyweight in todays division and being a guy who strikes fear into either of the brothers hearts because IMO the gap between them two and the chasing pack is big enough to be considered a chasm, in fact at the risk of being disrespectful would have to say being third best heavyweight in the world currently (if indeed he is) is akin to being the tallest dwarf.

rowley wrote:He may well be the third best in the world, personally think Solis beats him but would not stake my life on it, however there is a world of difference between being the third best heavyweight in todays division and being a guy who strikes fear into either of the brothers hearts because IMO the gap between them two and the chasing pack is big enough to be considered a chasm, in fact at the risk of being disrespectful would have to say being third best heavyweight in the world currently (if indeed he is) is akin to being the tallest dwarf.

andy murray would know the feeling.
i loved the analogy and solis haye would be a great match up. but since solis seems destined to eat himself into early retirement i'd fancy an easy win for haye as it stands.

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:Not at all if they have done that they are not a deal better than Haye but do find it amusing that in Haye you have someone who has shown a pretty frequent inability to do as he says or to tell the truth about what is happening in his career but every time he says one or both of the brothers are ducking him there are still people willing to believe him.

As I have said previously I am on the fence because Booth and Boente did not copy me in on the emails but I am quite certain when it comes to Haye I take a lot of convincing to believe anything he says because there are only so many times a person can make you look stupid before it starts to reflect rather poorly on you.

All your criticisms of Haye applies to K2 also. As far as I know, Haye doesn't try to inconvenience the opposing boxer an hour before the ring walk though.

I haven't heard say K2 are ducking him.

To be honest, you don't seem to be on the fence here. No splinters on your rear end. You appear to be on the side of K2.

Coming from a guy who thinks Haye was 3% to blame for the brawl in Munich and regularly attempts to discredit Klitschkos........

Haye is the one who was given a fight with the Klitschkos after beating Monte Barrett. He withdrew. Haye is the one who disappeared in 2010 when the Klitschkos were calling him and came back to retire Audley who wasnt on his radar supposedly, and didnt retire. Haye is also the one who pressurised Wlad into ditching his Chisora fight with his bogus retirement plan. Hes also the guy that that was well beaten when they fought. Hes the guy that would only come back for a Klitschko fight, but is scheduled to face Chisora in a fight which circumnavigates the BBBC and EBUs wishes. These are all tangible events. Not vague occurances that go on behind closed doors that as fans we are not privy to. Haye is a proven bser and a liar that I think goes well beyond what you can accuse the Klitschkos of.

The reasons for Haye opting to fight Chisora over Vitali by far outweight the reasons why Vitali would be running from Haye in my view. Not based on the the inane ramblings of promoters and boxers but by the actual occurances that have happened in the past.

Did I say as much as 3%?

Why did he withdraw? Anything to do with Setanta going under? Dont you think that a boxer fighting for the biggest prize in sport and potentially his biggest payday would think twice about fighting when he is not sure about getting paid?

There were sticking points prior to Haye taking Audley, mainly TV rights. Haye wanted the rights to the British TV and K2 wanted a 50/50 split.

Wasn't Wlad injured? Haye wasn't responsible for that injury or are you saying Wlad lied about the injury? Which is it?

I'm aware he was well beaten. I said way before the fight that Haye would lose to Wlad and beat Vit.

Apparently a deal was made before Vit fought Chisora and suddenly for no apparent reason to do with Vitali, K2 said they wanted nothing to do with Haye. Haye looked elsewhere and is taking on a more dangerous opponent for him that Vitali will be.

I haven't accused anyone of ducking and I am not going by anyone's ramblings

If there was a deal made prior to the Chisora fight then why was Vitali fighting Chisora at all?

terms were offered in 2011, Haye came back in 2012 saying he would accept them. Boente said too late. You keep bringing this up but its scarcely relevant because regardless of what happened prior to Chisora, Haye was offered a deal again after it.

Why this deal didnt come to fruition is anybodys guess but mine is because Haye wanted to fight Chisora instead as it offered the money he wanted with much lower risk. This would be consisted with his behaviour in the past where in the case of the first Wlad fight, the Valuev fight and the Audley fight he passed on the opportunity to fight a Klitschko for financial reasons.

manos de piedra wrote:If there was a deal made prior to the Chisora fight then why was Vitali fighting Chisora at all?

terms were offered in 2011, Haye came back in 2012 saying he would accept them. Boente said too late. You keep bringing this up but its scarcely relevant because regardless of what happened prior to Chisora, Haye was offered a deal again after it.

Why this deal didnt come to fruition is anybodys guess but mine is because Haye wanted to fight Chisora instead as it offered the money he wanted with much lower risk. This would be consisted with his behaviour in the past where in the case of the first Wlad fight, the Valuev fight and the Audley fight he passed on the opportunity to fight a Klitschko for financial reasons.

The deal was for after Chisora lost to Vit. That's why I keep on mentioning an angry Booth confronting Vit after the brawl.

So basically Boente can shift the posts according to what he wants and its all good. When Haye does something similar Haye is being difficult. This type of stuff is consistent with putting 'high' profile fights together and is consistent of K2 when the decks aren't stacked in their favour with their slave contracts.

So you say, but both Wlads unifications fights were 50/50 splits and they have more or less taken on the best the limited division has had to offer during their careers.

If you want to have a go at the Klitschkos it probably easier to do so if its not in the name of David Haye.

And, of course, you take Booths word that there was an agreement with absolutely no proof. It wasnt David Haye that hit him with a tripod either.

I don't think Booth was lying in the heat of the moment. If he was then he should be in show biz as he would be in competition with De Niro in the method acting stakes.

K2 rating on 606v2 : IIII
Azania respect : IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

K2 rating on 606v2 : IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Azania respect : IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

K2 rating on 606v2 : IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Azania respect : IIII

I bow out of this one azania!