Wallabies v Wales match day teams and matchday thread

[munkian]

First topic message reminder :

Captain Sam Warburton returns to lead Wales against Australia

Australia coach Deans makes wholesale changes against Wales


TEAMS



Australia: Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW); Cooper Vuna (Melbourne Rebels), Rob Horne (NSW), Pat McCabe (ACT), Digby Ioane (Queensland); Berrick Barnes (NSW), Will Genia (Queensland); Benn Robinson (NSW), Tatafu Polota-Nau (NSW), Sekope Kepu (NSW), Rob Simmons (Queensland), Nathan Sharpe (Western Force), Scott Higginbotham (Queensland), David Pocock (Western Force, capt), Wycliff Palu (NSW).

Replacements: Stephen Moore (ACT), Ben Alexander (ACT), Dave Dennis (NSW), Michael Hooper (ACT), Nic White (ACT), Anthony Fainga'a (Queensland), Mike Harris (Queensland).




Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Blues); Alex Cuthbert (Blues), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets), George North (Scarlets); Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Bayonne); Gethin Jenkins (Toulon), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Bradley Davies (Blues), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Dan Lydiate (Dragons), Sam Warburton (Blues, capt), Toby Faletau (Dragons).

Replacements: Matthew Rees (Scarlets), Paul James (Bath), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Blues), James Hook (Perpignan), Ashley Beck (Ospreys).


Scott Williams at 12, ken Owens hooker which is a great call , no Webb on bench though which is a bit gutting, Lloyd was awful against the Baa Baas

Tour Previews
http://www.v2journal.com/wales-summer-tour-preview.html
http://www.v2journal.com/australias-june-tests-preview.html

[wales606]

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Ian Evans
6. Dan Lydiate
7. Sam Warburton
8. Ryan Jones
9. Mike Phillips
10. Rhys Priestland
11. George North (hopefully, otherwise I have no idea who starts)
12. Ashley Beck
13. Jonathon Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Ken Owens/Richard Hibbard (for impact)
17. Paul James
18. Bradley Davies
19. Justin Tipuric
20. Lloyd Williams
21. James Hook -
22. Liam Williams

[CurlyOsp]

Dan Lydiate - 18 tackles made, none missed.

[wales606]

Rory - no offence, but that comment shows what little you know of the Wales backrow. Lydiate was superb today, better than Warburton, easily. Do agree with you that Faletau had a quiet game though.


Maes - I know, twas so weird seeing a team play the game we like to play, and us not being able to execute it ourselves!

I think Warburton was better - he made some good carries and good link play. Lydiate was good, but Warburton looked better (especially in the second half)

[Knowsit17]

A heavily depleted side, down to their 4th choice 10, the 3rd game in a week for most, half the side were fighting off hypothermia only a few days ago, only a week together as a squad, and they still gave a lesson in attacking rugby.

RD, looks like we got a banned user on a new ID returning to WUM. Sort it out.

If you say so mate.

Not everything is about Wales, my comments were about the quality of Australia despite the circumstances.

Good luck against a properly rested depleted side next week.

Cyril?

No matter, the Grand Slammers got quite a while before they are challenged for their title anyway.

GrandSlammers

Why feed the trolls now? It couldn't be more obvious that he's waiting for opportunities like this to jump in and wind people up. All some people do is fall for it and that's all we need

[Guest]

No Faletau at all, Wales606?

Hmmm.

I do like that pack though.


Our backs are going to be a huge problem if Georgie is out. Scott I think definitely will be.

[anotherworldofpain]

Wales made good competition and play some good rugby.

Is just first losing for Wales this year, so no need to "put in the boot" really.

Just missing 1% of luck they had in 6N to get the win from close games.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Rory - no offence, but that comment shows what little you know of the Wales backrow. Lydiate was superb today, better than Warburton, easily. Do agree with you that Faletau had a quiet game though.


Maes - I know, twas so weird seeing a team play the game we like to play, and us not being able to execute it ourselves!

Hardly - the usual response is that the welsh back row does something special and nobody understands all this magical unseen work they do. Yet just above you admitted that you were poor at the breakdown? What is the primary role of the back row? Your back row was schooled, if you don't agree, then I say that shows what little you know about back row play in general..

[wales606]

No Faletau at all, Wales606?

Hmmm.

I do like that pack though.


Our backs are going to be a huge problem if Georgie is out. Scott I think definitely will be.

I might be tempted to put both on the bench and just have Hook covering everyone, because there is no other option. We have no depth in the backs at the moment :/

[Guest]

Rory - no offence, but that comment shows what little you know of the Wales backrow. Lydiate was superb today, better than Warburton, easily. Do agree with you that Faletau had a quiet game though.


Maes - I know, twas so weird seeing a team play the game we like to play, and us not being able to execute it ourselves!

I think Warburton was better - he made some good carries and good link play. Lydiate was good, but Warburton looked better (especially in the second half)

Nah, Warbs was good 2nd half (made some key turnovers) but he was far, far too quiet for the first half for me, when we really needed him to step up. but then maybe I'm being harsh, as he hasn't played for so long!

[Morgannwg]

Knowsit, I was just pointing out a suspicious user.

As for Faletau being dropped, well I have to agree when looking at his performance today and the form of Ryan Jones.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Rory - no offence, but that comment shows what little you know of the Wales backrow. Lydiate was superb today, better than Warburton, easily. Do agree with you that Faletau had a quiet game though.


Maes - I know, twas so weird seeing a team play the game we like to play, and us not being able to execute it ourselves!

I think Warburton was better - he made some good carries and good link play. Lydiate was good, but Warburton looked better (especially in the second half)

Nah, Warbs was good 2nd half (made some key turnovers) but he was far, far too quiet for the first half for me, when we really needed him to step up. but then maybe I'm being harsh, as he hasn't played for so long!

He made some crucial steals in the first half. He was on par with Pocock in that game.

[CurlyOsp]

Rory - no offence, but that comment shows what little you know of the Wales backrow. Lydiate was superb today, better than Warburton, easily. Do agree with you that Faletau had a quiet game though.


Maes - I know, twas so weird seeing a team play the game we like to play, and us not being able to execute it ourselves!

Hardly - the usual response is that the welsh back row does something special and nobody understands all this magical unseen work they do. Yet just above you admitted that you were poor at the breakdown? What is the primary role of the back row? Your back row was schooled, if you don't agree, then I say that shows what little you know about back row play in general..

30 tackles between Lydiate and Warburton. I'd say a blind-sides main job is to tackle. That's how the Welsh back row is used, Warburton primarily to fetch, Lydiate primarily to tackle and Faletau to carry and clear. Faletau didn't do his job today, things looked much better when Jones came on and did exactly that.

[wales606]

Player ratings

1. Gethin Jenkins - 6
2. Ken Owens - 7
3. Adam Jones - 7
4. Bradley Davies - 7
5. Luke Charteris - 4
6. Dan Lydiate - 6
7. Sam Warburton - 6
8. Toby Faletau - 3
9. Mike Phillips - 6
10. Rhys Preistland - 5
11. George North - 6
12. Scott Williams - 5
13. Jonathon Davies - 5
14. Alex Cuthbert - 8
15. Leigh Halfpenny - 8

16. Matthew Rees - 7
18. Alun Wyn Jones - 7
19. Ryan Jones - 7
21. James Hook - 5
22. Ashley Beck - 7

[Cymroglan]

I was just thinking to myself , Things cant be that bad when we feel gutted that we lost to the TN champions in their own back yard.
It's not that far back that we would have been delighted if we lost by a eight point margin.
We will improve from todays performance and may yet surprise a few people.

[Biltong]

Must admit I felt a little sick at 20-19... it could have been disastrous for us from that point onwards.

I know it's relatively early days but I prefer watching a young Will Genia to a young George Gregan. Better rugby instinct, takes on the line so well and is a great team player. We are so lucky to have a guy who can almost single-handedly take the game by the scruff of the neck and pull off a pearler on a night like that... when Australia so desperately needed to win.

I said this morning , Australia might not have their tricksters with them, but if they play direct they will win.

[Rory_Gallagher]

30 tackles between Lydiate and Warburton. I'd say a blind-sides main job is to tackle. That's how the Welsh back row is used, Warburton primarily to fetch, Lydiate primarily to tackle and Faletau to carry and clear. Faletau didn't do his job today, things looked much better when Jones came on and did exactly that.

And I think that is a naive thing to suggest. Many 7s make the most tackles on the pitch. When has Faletau been used to carry and clear for Wales? So far he has been a very defensive player for Wales. Didn't he make more tackles than Lydiate in both the World Cup and 6 nations? Wales do not have any significant ball carriers in their back row.

[doctor_grey]

I'd agree mate. T'was close and Wales had their opportunities. Just need to clise out these tight ones.

[anotherworldofpain]

Australia steal the game with twin open sides in Hooper and Pocock when the game getting lose at the end. This is old Australia trick.

I was surprise about how naive Wales were to some very old tricks on show from Australia.

Maybe they miss the Kiwi coach this week to remind them?

[TycroesOsprey]

Rory - no offence, but that comment shows what little you know of the Wales backrow. Lydiate was superb today, better than Warburton, easily. Do agree with you that Faletau had a quiet game though.


Maes - I know, twas so weird seeing a team play the game we like to play, and us not being able to execute it ourselves!

Hardly - the usual response is that the welsh back row does something special and nobody understands all this magical unseen work they do. Yet just above you admitted that you were poor at the breakdown? What is the primary role of the back row? Your back row was schooled, if you don't agree, then I say that shows what little you know about back row play in general..

30 tackles between Lydiate and Warburton. I'd say a blind-sides main job is to tackle. That's how the Welsh back row is used, Warburton primarily to fetch, Lydiate primarily to tackle and Faletau to carry and clear. Faletau didn't do his job today, things looked much better when Jones came on and did exactly that.

Ive said it before and I will say it again, Rory does not know a scooby doo about backrow play.

[Guest]

Rory - no offence, but that comment shows what little you know of the Wales backrow. Lydiate was superb today, better than Warburton, easily. Do agree with you that Faletau had a quiet game though.


Maes - I know, twas so weird seeing a team play the game we like to play, and us not being able to execute it ourselves!

Hardly - the usual response is that the welsh back row does something special and nobody understands all this magical unseen work they do. Yet just above you admitted that you were poor at the breakdown? What is the primary role of the back row? Your back row was schooled, if you don't agree, then I say that shows what little you know about back row play in general..

Nice response Rory.

I know we were poor at the breakdown (as in competing for the ball) but defensively, which is Lydiate's main role, he was very very good work. I can't believe you can't see that. Baffling to be honest.

Warbs improved 2nd half at the stealing ball, but twas too late by then. Our breakdown was hindered because we didn't commit enough players. Warbs himself has also acknowledged it.

You can look at individual performances as just that, individual, without looking at the unit as a whole you know.

[Guest]

30 tackles between Lydiate and Warburton. I'd say a blind-sides main job is to tackle. That's how the Welsh back row is used, Warburton primarily to fetch, Lydiate primarily to tackle and Faletau to carry and clear. Faletau didn't do his job today, things looked much better when Jones came on and did exactly that.

And I think that is a naive thing to suggest. Many 7s make the most tackles on the pitch. When has Faletau been used to carry and clear for Wales? So far he has been a very defensive player for Wales. Didn't he make more tackles than Lydiate in both the World Cup and 6 nations? Wales do not have any significant ball carriers in their back row.

I suggest you watch Faletau's game in the world cup and 6N's, he was one of our best carriers.

[maestegmafia]

Must admit I felt a little sick at 20-19... it could have been disastrous for us from that point onwards.

I know it's relatively early days but I prefer watching a young Will Genia to a young George Gregan. Better rugby instinct, takes on the line so well and is a great team player. We are so lucky to have a guy who can almost single-handedly take the game by the scruff of the neck and pull off a pearler on a night like that... when Australia so desperately needed to win.

If the Welsh defence could have held off the McCabe try I think Wales could have done it... But what a try, such a brilliant line... That was the turning point, we looked aimless after.

Well played Ozzies, Genia was man of the match...

[Knowsit17]

I'm also tempted to omit Faletau. He hasn't had a great game since the WC and has looked highly conservative for the most part. If he was more consistent at the breakdown I'd reconsider but he isn't. If he hit the ball more on impact and made some yards I'd reconsider but he doesn't. On the evidence of today his first up tackling wasn't good. I didn't see much of him but when I did notice him he was mainly just getting driven back.

On that sort of performance you can't be allowed to retain your spot for free. I'll trust in Howley's decision for now but with Jones and Tipuric vying for starts Faletau's place is definitely under threat.

[CurlyOsp]

30 tackles between Lydiate and Warburton. I'd say a blind-sides main job is to tackle. That's how the Welsh back row is used, Warburton primarily to fetch, Lydiate primarily to tackle and Faletau to carry and clear. Faletau didn't do his job today, things looked much better when Jones came on and did exactly that.

And I think that is a naive thing to suggest. Many 7s make the most tackles on the pitch. When has Faletau been used to carry and clear for Wales? So far he has been a very defensive player for Wales. Didn't he make more tackles than Lydiate in both the World Cup and 6 nations? Wales do not have any significant ball carriers in their back row.

I suggest you watch Faletau's game in the world cup and 6N's, he was one of our best carriers.

Agreed. Faletau is uausally the carrier in that back row. Many sevens might do and Warburton generally has a very high tackle count, but he's renowned for his feching. That's what makes a good seven. In order for a seven to play their fetching game, the six has to be taking a large amount of the defensive duties.

[maestegmafia]

30 tackles between Lydiate and Warburton. I'd say a blind-sides main job is to tackle. That's how the Welsh back row is used, Warburton primarily to fetch, Lydiate primarily to tackle and Faletau to carry and clear. Faletau didn't do his job today, things looked much better when Jones came on and did exactly that.

And I think that is a naive thing to suggest. Many 7s make the most tackles on the pitch. When has Faletau been used to carry and clear for Wales? So far he has been a very defensive player for Wales. Didn't he make more tackles than Lydiate in both the World Cup and 6 nations? Wales do not have any significant ball carriers in their back row.

I suggest you watch Faletau's game in the world cup and 6N's, he was one of our best carriers.

I dont think Faletau was a problem at all.. He played well. As did Ryan Jones when he came on, but Faletau is a great number eight.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I would suggest that is the exact thing you are doing though dreamer. I am basing the welsh back row as a unit here. Warburton made many steals and tried his best but he was bossed at the breakdown due to a lack of support. Wales ultimately suffered and Australia capitalised on extremely quick ball.

If that is Lydiate doing his main role, which is tackling in a Joe Worsley fashion (I can see he makes tackles) but his back row is getting schooled at the breakdown, then maybe the famous balance of the welsh back row isn't as balanced as you think.

[anotherworldofpain]

Rory - no offence, but that comment shows what little you know of the Wales backrow. Lydiate was superb today, better than Warburton, easily. Do agree with you that Faletau had a quiet game though.


Maes - I know, twas so weird seeing a team play the game we like to play, and us not being able to execute it ourselves!

Hardly - the usual response is that the welsh back row does something special and nobody understands all this magical unseen work they do. Yet just above you admitted that you were poor at the breakdown? What is the primary role of the back row? Your back row was schooled, if you don't agree, then I say that shows what little you know about back row play in general..

Nice response Rory.

I know we were poor at the breakdown (as in competing for the ball) but defensively, which is Lydiate's main role, he was very very good work. I can't believe you can't see that. Baffling to be honest.

Warbs improved 2nd half at the stealing ball, but twas too late by then. Our breakdown was hindered because we didn't commit enough players. Warbs himself has also acknowledged it.

You can look at individual performances as just that, individual, without looking at the unit as a whole you know.

You cant just commit more players to the breakdown in the modern game or you leaving short next phase and cant attacking or defending and keep the shape. Is about the players who are there do the job at the breakdown. Australia win because they are too foxy with Pocock and Hooper and both some of the best fetcher in the world honed in SXV this year. If you watch this you can see both player stand out in this area of talent.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I watched him on both occasions dreamer, and he was not even close to being as effective with ball in hand as North, Roberts, Phillips etc. You cannot really say he was at the same level as Morgan, Denton, Harinordoquy or Parisse in the 6 nations. They all carried their team forward. Faletau looked pretty average. Yet for the Dragons, he is making breaks all over the show.

[Guest]

I would suggest that is the exact thing you are doing though dreamer. I am basing the welsh back row as a unit here. Warburton made many steals and tried his best but he was bossed at the breakdown due to a lack of support. Wales ultimately suffered and Australia capitalised on extremely quick ball.

If that is Lydiate doing his main role, which is tackling in a Joe Worsley fashion (I can see he makes tackles) but his back row is getting schooled at the breakdown, then maybe the famous balance of the welsh back row isn't as balanced as you think.

You are aware that support play comes more from just the backrow right? please tell me that.

Lydiate would tackle, Warbs would go to fetch and we would get no other support at all. Wales as a team did not work well today in the contact area, full stop. warbs has already commented on that, and I'd take his word on it over yours, no offence

[wales606]

Faletau barely carried at all - Warburton was popping up and carrying all over the place, basically doing Faletau's job for him.

Time for the return of Ryan Jones at 8 - he doesn't have 'off games' he puts in 100% everytime and will be a lot more useful at the breakdown.

Tipuric on for Lydiate at 60 minutes next week.

[Pal Joey]

Must admit I felt a little sick at 20-19... it could have been disastrous for us from that point onwards.

I know it's relatively early days but I prefer watching a young Will Genia to a young George Gregan. Better rugby instinct, takes on the line so well and is a great team player. We are so lucky to have a guy who can almost single-handedly take the game by the scruff of the neck and pull off a pearler on a night like that... when Australia so desperately needed to win.

I said this morning , Australia might not have their tricksters with them, but if they play direct they will win.

Considering this playing group only had a day to practice together after the Scotland test... there was a shadow of concern but I also felt like they were really itching to make amends (the media here got stuck into them) and take the game to Wales, which they did mostly.

There were a few hairy moments along the way but ultimately it was that special extra 1% effort on the day which showed; Wales were perhaps a little jaded and lost some structure when North had to go off... then they ironically had a mini revival for a while there due to some forced errors on Oz under pressure from 50/50 balls in open play.

[CurlyOsp]

Faletau barely carried at all - Warburton was popping up and carrying all over the place, basically doing Faletau's job for him.

Time for the return of Ryan Jones at 8 - he doesn't have 'off games' he puts in 100% everytime and will be a lot more useful at the breakdown.

Tipuric on for Lydiate at 60 minutes next week.

Agree with Jones starting, Warburton will have a much better game if he does. but why take Lydiate off? What will dropping the work rate for an extra fetcher achieve in these games, especially if the defence is as poor as it was today. That's not saying anything against Tipuric, I rate him very highly.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I would suggest that is the exact thing you are doing though dreamer. I am basing the welsh back row as a unit here. Warburton made many steals and tried his best but he was bossed at the breakdown due to a lack of support. Wales ultimately suffered and Australia capitalised on extremely quick ball.

If that is Lydiate doing his main role, which is tackling in a Joe Worsley fashion (I can see he makes tackles) but his back row is getting schooled at the breakdown, then maybe the famous balance of the welsh back row isn't as balanced as you think.

You are aware that support play comes more from just the backrow rate? please tell me that.

Lydiate would tackle, Warbs would go to fetch and we would get no other support at all. Wales as a team did not work well today in the contact area, full stop. warbs has already commented on that, and I'd take his word on it over yours, no offence

Dreamer, tone down the condescension, I'm respecting your opinions here.

If you have seen any comments I have ever made about the back row, natural 7s, and support, then you wouldn't be asking your first question. So with that out of the way, I will ask you this. Do you really think that Lydiate and Warburton are joined at the hip? You ask in a patronising way if I am aware that support play comes from more than just the back row, then you go on to say that Lydiate makes the tackles and Warburton then makes the turnovers? I don't think it works quite like that..

[wales606]

Faletau barely carried at all - Warburton was popping up and carrying all over the place, basically doing Faletau's job for him.

Time for the return of Ryan Jones at 8 - he doesn't have 'off games' he puts in 100% everytime and will be a lot more useful at the breakdown.

Tipuric on for Lydiate at 60 minutes next week.

Agree with Jones starting, Warburton will have a much better game if he does. but why take Lydiate off? What will dropping the work rate for an extra fetcher achieve in these games, especially if the defence is as poor as it was today. That's not saying anything against Tipuric, I rate him very highly.

Lydiate is a good 60minute performer - he used to get taken off at 60 so he could put his all into tackling for the whole time. Ryan Jones can take over most of Lydiate workrate and Evans and AWJ can take on some of Ryan's carrying - Tipuric is a class player and have 2 fetchers will benefit us in the last 20 when fitness starts to tell.

[Guest]

The point is Rory I generally always question your comments on backrow play, and judging by other posters on this thread, they're completely disagreeing with you too. (which on a discussion forum, is entirely allowed )

Err yes, that's not support play I just described by Warbs and Lydiate, the support play would come from the front and 2nd row to protect the ball etc if we manage to steal it, or to try and stop the Aussies competing for the ball. The team as a whole didn't do that, tis not just down to the backrow when it comes to that aspect of play, we simply didn't commit numbers (i.e more than the 3 backrow players)

Sorry if I've coming across as patronising, but I can't see how you can't understand that.

[anotherworldofpain]

It's a bout make the balance in a back row across the game to lineout option, defender, carrying, turn over, quick from the scrum to pressure at 9 and since always player cannot be in every involvement then needs team working to get balance right and also match the style of game and opposition and change up or down tempo.

Australia master this today and Wales unfortunately finish second at the breakdown and in back row play in general. Scotland were superior to this area last week and Wales must focus.

I think the 8 went missing and was too much work for 6 and 7 to cover the job and make tired.

[Guest]

anotherworldofpain - agreed, Toby didn't seem to pull his weight today, but I thought Lyds and Warbs coming back from injury did the best they could.

Agree with others for the call of Ryan to start. Faletau could be a nice option to come off the bench in the last 20mins.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I know just as many people who agree with me too, and disagree with what you say. It is usually an Ireland vs Wales thing actually when it comes to who agrees with who anyway, so that is irrelevant. You do realise that it is entirely allowed for me to make my point and stand my ground too then? In my opinion, you are naive about back row play. I myself have played there for years, received honours for my performances, and I usually focus on the breakdown/back row each game I watch.

You are also totally misunderstand what I said obviously. I wasn't talking about support play. I said I wasn't going to comment on that, because you wouldn't be asking the silly question you asked if you actually read anything I have said about back row player, the breakdown, and support. I was talking about the "Lydiate tackles, Warburton fetches" comment you made.

[CurlyOsp]

Faletau barely carried at all - Warburton was popping up and carrying all over the place, basically doing Faletau's job for him.

Time for the return of Ryan Jones at 8 - he doesn't have 'off games' he puts in 100% everytime and will be a lot more useful at the breakdown.

Tipuric on for Lydiate at 60 minutes next week.

Agree with Jones starting, Warburton will have a much better game if he does. but why take Lydiate off? What will dropping the work rate for an extra fetcher achieve in these games, especially if the defence is as poor as it was today. That's not saying anything against Tipuric, I rate him very highly.

Lydiate is a good 60minute performer - he used to get taken off at 60 so he could put his all into tackling for the whole time. Ryan Jones can take over most of Lydiate workrate and Evans and AWJ can take on some of Ryan's carrying - Tipuric is a class player and have 2 fetchers will benefit us in the last 20 when fitness starts to tell.

You could be right, we wont know until we see. But I think Lydiates fitness is the best it's ever been, he was cutting down players for the whole 80 today. Tips has been outstanding recently though. I'd be torn between what to do to be honest.

[anotherworldofpain]

anotherworldofpain - agreed, Toby didn't seem to pull his weight today, but I thought Lyds and Warbs coming back from injury did the best they could.

Agree with others for the call of Ryan to start. Faletau could be a nice option to come off the bench in the last 20mins.

You do disservice to your argument when you including "coming back from injury". It sounds like make the excuse. They start well but somehow Wales get over-powerd at the ending of the second half and first half and concede too many meteres to close driving play and fall for the inside ball to the congestion zone too much. This is the job in the back row to shut it down. I don't care who was come back from injury or not, just they do the job. The fail to implode on Genia and now he steal the game with his space.

[Rory_Gallagher]

I think we should drop the debate though dreamer, because we usually end up going in circles and I don't like where it is going either. It seems to have turned into more of a "My opinion is better than yours" debate.

[Guest]

Rory - when you get like this, there's honestly no point even trying to discuss things with you. When have I said you can't express your opinion? Honestly it's so hard to discuss anything with you when all you do is take offence at even the mildest of comments.

I think you're wrong about your summary of the backrow play of Wales today (apart from the comments about Faletau which I've already agreed with), that's all I've said. Not quite sure why you have to take such umbridge when people don't agree with you, but it never makes for nice discussions.

And with that, I'm off. Great discussing the game with most of you, and a whole load of things for us to improve on, for sure!

[wales606]

Faletau barely carried at all - Warburton was popping up and carrying all over the place, basically doing Faletau's job for him.

Time for the return of Ryan Jones at 8 - he doesn't have 'off games' he puts in 100% everytime and will be a lot more useful at the breakdown.

Tipuric on for Lydiate at 60 minutes next week.

Agree with Jones starting, Warburton will have a much better game if he does. but why take Lydiate off? What will dropping the work rate for an extra fetcher achieve in these games, especially if the defence is as poor as it was today. That's not saying anything against Tipuric, I rate him very highly.

Lydiate is a good 60minute performer - he used to get taken off at 60 so he could put his all into tackling for the whole time. Ryan Jones can take over most of Lydiate workrate and Evans and AWJ can take on some of Ryan's carrying - Tipuric is a class player and have 2 fetchers will benefit us in the last 20 when fitness starts to tell.

You could be right, we wont know until we see. But I think Lydiates fitness is the best it's ever been, he was cutting down players for the whole 80 today. Tips has been outstanding recently though. I'd be torn between what to do to be honest.

Based on today, we need to be stronger in the breakdown and hope Edwards and the return of Jones, Jones and Evans can shore up the defence.

[Guest]

anotherworldofpain - agreed, Toby didn't seem to pull his weight today, but I thought Lyds and Warbs coming back from injury did the best they could.

Agree with others for the call of Ryan to start. Faletau could be a nice option to come off the bench in the last 20mins.

You do disservice to your argument when you including "coming back from injury". It sounds like make the excuse. They start well but somehow Wales get over-powerd at the ending of the second half and first half and concede too many meteres to close driving play and fall for the inside ball to the congestion zone too much. This is the job in the back row to shut it down. I don't care who was come back from injury or not, just they do the job. The fail to implode on Genia and now he steal the game with his space.

Not really. I thought Warbs was rather poor first half (i.e due to lack of game time) but he really came into his own 2nd half. Went just how I expected really

[anotherworldofpain]

There was 10 minutes in the second when Wales get on top across the game and fight back to 19-20 but then Wallabies Brumbies come on and specific rebalance the back row and then Australia dominate possession and control the ball, score and win.

Wales fail to react to it and it was that area was make the place for Genia to command with good ball and territory.

Warburton could not control Hooper and Pocock going left/right by combinator at many angles.

[Hookisms and Hyperbole]

I've always found it strange that Lydiate is supposedly a master of 'the unseen work' of the back row. How can anyone know that if what he does is 'unseen'?

Lydiate is an excellent 'chopper' but in reality he does very little else around the park. I was genuinely surprised that Jones didn't start for me, for as a neutral, he seems a better all round player that Lydiate. For me Lydiate excels in one certain role, but when the Australians wouldn't playing to his game he looked anonymous. Warburton had a pretty good game I felt, but there is a real gap between him, Pocock and McCaw. He is still the best 7 in the northern hemisphere.

[offload]

It's a bout make the balance in a back row across the game to lineout option, defender, carrying, turn over, quick from the scrum to pressure at 9 and since always player cannot be in every involvement then needs team working to get balance right and also match the style of game and opposition and change up or down tempo.

Australia master this today and Wales unfortunately finish second at the breakdown and in back row play in general. Scotland were superior to this area last week and Wales must focus.

I think the 8 went missing and was too much work for 6 and 7 to cover the job and make tired.

Wow. Your grammar has reverted to its previous standard. Amazing. Never mind, whatever makes you happy.

[anotherworldofpain]

I drink a bit beer offload when is lunch and now is some harder to concentrate about it offload

[mzan]

A heavily depleted side, down to their 4th choice 10, the 3rd game in a week for most, half the side were fighting off hypothermia only a few days ago, only a week together as a squad, and they still gave a lesson in attacking rugby.

RD, looks like we got a banned user on a new ID returning to WUM. Sort it out.

If you say so mate.

Not everything is about Wales, my comments were about the quality of Australia despite the circumstances.

Good luck against a properly rested depleted side next week.

Cyril?

No matter, the Grand Slammers got quite a while before they are challenged for their title anyway.

GrandSlammers

I don't get your reference.

Again trying to make this about Wales again!

Though it is interesting that you think people outside of Europe have much concern for what goes on in your competition. 6/5 Nations grand slams have been a common occurence for decades, as have SH grand slam tours of Europe. Winning all your Tri Nations matches though, now that is a real achievement.

Once again, well done to Australia, looking forward to see what they can do with a full strength squad against the ABs. I reckon the Boks will once again prove themselves a physical handful as well. Should be an intriguing upcoming Rugby Championship.

[offload]

I drink a bit beer offload when is lunch and now is some harder to concentrate about it offload

Funny that, when I have a beer I'm all figures and thumbs. When you drink you become a proper little linguist.

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