Springboks

First topic message reminder :

It was with trepidation that I looked forward to seeing the Springboks take on the English yesterday afternoon. Memories still fresh in my mind of Bok teams being inconsistent, unreliable and frankly just poor.

PDV has taken away any confidence I had in the Springboks aver the past four years as I saw to many matches where we were either not prepared, coached well enough, players that shouldn’t have been selected, untimely substitutes and tests lost in the last 10 minutes.

The Bulls supporters in South Africa on the whole were very happy with the appointment of Heyneke Meyer as he was the Messiah who turned the fortunes around for the Bulls Franchise in the early to late 2000’. I on the other hand was not convinced, the fact was it has been 3 years since Meyer had a hands on approach with a team and I had no idea what his methodology would be in an era where a more modern game plan is required to get to the top.

Now in most peoples view there are only two ways to play the game of rugby, those that believe expansive is the way to go and those that believe conservative rugby is the answer.

I have a different view of how rugby should be played. No matter what style of rugby you believe in, the first requirement is for your forwards to gain control of the set phases and breakdown, without that all the talent in the world won’t help you much.

Yesterday it showed in the first half that when SA do not have control at the breakdown, the chances are they will either get very slow ball with defences already aligned, or they will concede turnovers via penalties or pilfers.

They could not attack effectively during this period and only when they brought more numbers to the breakdown quicker, secured their ruck ball quicker was there a remarkable change of pace in their attack.

So breakdown sorted. The next area of concern was the scrum and lineouts, with John Smit often moving to prop in the past few years and without being disrespectful to a great man, he wasn’t an international class prop. The damage that this did to the reputation of Springbok scrumming would probably linger for yet a while longer, so even I was concerned as to how we would handle the scrums and in specific when Coenie Oosthuizen would come on as he is a penalty magnet at scrumtime.

But for all intent and purposes it went well. So scrum is sorted.

Our lineout was likely to be the most concerning area as the combination of Bakkies Botha and victor Matfield would no longer grace the stadia of South Africa as the undisputed lineout supremo’s. So Juandre Kruger and Eben Etzebeth was always going to be under pressure to perform. I’ll give them a pass mark, nothing more, they didn’t contest the English lineout with much success, and definitely didn’t control the maul well at all (although something can be said about what England got away with in stopping those mauls). So lineout looks promising.

Hougaard needs to forget about what Fourie du Preez did in the Springbok jumper and needs to establish his own style, he proved his ability with one sniping run that almst promised to turn into a five pointer, his combination with Morne Steyn ( to be said not my favourite first choice) was OK, and between the two of them they managed to control some stages of the match, but definitely not an 80 minute performance from them.

The back row of Spies, Alberts and Coetzee was much better in the second half, but it is clear Spies is on borrowed time and Burger is a shoo in when he returns from injury.

I liked the midfield combination of Frans Steyn and Jean de Villiers, although it took 40 minutes for them to start firing and Steyn was not yet at his best ( considering he hasn’t played a rugby match in SA since last year) they look to be a solid defensive pairing and will prove valuable in attack.

Habana was the star of the show alongside Alberts, He counter attacked from deep, chased effectively, beat a number of defenders and looked hungry, JP Pietersen did nothing special, but made no defensive errors either, late in the second half he got a bit more into the game when he started looking for more work.

Zane Kirchner is an overrated, player, his inclusion was supposedly for his “solidity” at the back, but with all due respect, he should go home. This is the only positional change I think that simply has no other option but to add Lambie to the starting XV.

Overall there are things to work on, there were promising signs of what is to come, sure it will be direct, it isn’t as if we are going to start playing tiddly winks with our backs and play “Australian” style of rugby. In fact I don’t want that, I never wanted that, as much as there is criticism of direct play, there is something to be said for direct play at pace, with physicality, speed , execution and variation.

The reality of the situation is in the past we would pick and drive, pick and drive , get slow ruck ball and have no idea how else to break the gain line, the second half yesterday proved, even a little variation done at pace and physicality gained from quick ruck ball and keeping ball in hand is as effective as prancing around like ballerina’s on hot coals.

There is still a lot of work left to do, there is still a lot of improvement necessary, but the one thing that stood out to me yesterday was that Meyer is prepared to play with ball in hand.

And that we haven’t done for a very, very long time.

I have a different view of how rugby should be played. No matter what style of rugby you believe in, the first requirement is for your forwards to gain control of the set phases and breakdown, without that all the talent in the world won’t help you much.

Well is an interesting point but some kind of philosophical problems.

Sometimes best combinator to get control of set phase is not the same combinator to get control of breakdown. For example, Australia get dominate the breakdown near closing the 80 minutes against Wales by use two fast powerful open side in Hooper and Pocock. But they still struggle to make the scrum.

Sometimes make the scrum better with more power to the second row make compromise the lineout (all blacks/thorn).

So there is some balance act.

Also blind approach of "control the set piece and breakdown" is blunt idea and not consider the strong part of opposition combinator. England might fall into the trap about name the biggest pack to try to beat up the Springboks when is more smart to name the faster pack and try to move around the bok pack and making them tired.

There is more than one way to stroke a leopard without get eaten, and in my mind you expose most that you are part of SA psychology to suggest control set piece and breakdown by strong is just the way to win! But what we expect? You are SA.

OK pain.

Is not insult to you biltong. Is just say ask a lion what is best to eat he is not going to suggest the caeasar salad.

No offence taken AWOP. My point about control beakdown is more encompassing than the suggested sentence, but for me to go into detail about every possible scenario over the breakdown and possession of a rgby ball would require a thesis.

You mustn't take everything literally for what is said, it could mean more than just a basic thought.

However I concede to you the fact that there is a perception that South Africans look at rugby as a one dimensional subject when in fact it has more dimensions.

How correct these perceptions are, depends entirely upon the opinion formed.

Our philosophy on rugby is based on size, power and skill (our traditional strengths), yet we aren't limited to that basic philosophy, even though it may seem that way.

Everyone always goes on about the Bok pack being big monsters (and hence those who tire quickly, and are one dimensional etc) but the SA pack was considerably lighter than the English pack, and still bossed it (not universally, but taken on average across the whole game)

Biltong - just wondering if you have seen the updated stats for the games at the weekend? Spies made one tackle, missed 2. :/

Yeah, Rory, he isn't very popular in SA anymore, even some Bulls supporters are turning against his selections.

I just don't really see what he offers? Experience? It isn't that helpful if you put in those performances..

I can honestly not tell you why he is there, the only assumption I can make is due to the injries to senior players he is the only player amongst the back row and locks with experience.

That all.

Courtesy of supersport

Despite a man of the match performance which underlined every bit of his nickname as “the Bone Collector”, Springbok loose forward Willem Alberts has sent a chilling message England’s way in that he and his Springbok teammates are hardly satisfied with their 22-17 win in the first test in Durban and plan to up the ante in Johannesburg on Saturday when the teams meet again.

Alberts, all 119kg of ground-thumping muscle, earned his nickname with his massive tackles -- bone-crunching tackles that reverberate across the country, but he has added a bit of bone-stomping as well to the repertoire with a number of big bruising runs that especially this weekend would have left a bunch of sore Englishmen in his wake.

And it wasn’t the first time Alberts was giving them nightmares either -- his performance off the bench in the 2010 win at Twickenham was an exceptional bit of power play as a substitute, leaving the English very much aware of his abilities.

Stuart Lancaster simply doesn’t have a counter to Alberts's brute force at the moment, with Alberts making 17 tackles and running a bone-rattling 86 metres with the ball in Durban, many of those metres over the bodies of English players.

Some players may have a subtle way of telling things, but Alberts -- off the field quiet and reserved -- enjoyed Saturday’s outing as much as his youthful days of backyard rugga out on the Bronkhorstspruit farm he learnt his trade on.

But ask him about his form and function, and he quickly shifts the attention. This bone collector won’t bask in the glory, but rather wants to see the next game as soon as possible.

“It was a lekker feeling and I’m glad I got a chance. I’ve had a bit of an up and down season but found some form in the last games of Super Rugby and I was glad I could make a positive contribution to the team,” he said on his man of the match performance before quickly reminding us: “That was in the past as is this one. We know that if we don’t follow it up with a good performance it all means nothing.”

Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has drilled a promising mantra into his troops in just a few days. The standards have been set high -- understandable if you think they will face the might of the All Blacks in a few months' time -- and while there was a sense of relief at beating England, Alberts wasn’t happy at all.

'RAMPAGING CATTLE'

The big downer -- hope for England and a reminder for the Boks -- was the last-minute try that made the scoreline look a lot more respectable. Alberts echoed Meyer's sentiments when he said this simply wasn’t something they could smile about. It was letting down the cause, especially after all the hard work the team achieved in the second half.

“It doesn’t matter what the result was, we know we have a lot of work ahead of us,” Alberts explained. “ It wasn’t good to concede that last try and there are a lot of aspects of our own game that we haven’t got right just yet. We know we must work a lot harder in the next week to make sure we get the right result.

“They (England) slowed down our first and second phase ball (in the first half) and we will have to look at it. We will have to ensure our support players do a better job in protecting the ball.”

Alberts's return to form came at a superb time, especially after an early season slump where he didn’t at all look at home on the field, and was struggling with match fitness and injuries.

“I wasn’t really match fit and struggled a bit with injuries and niggles here and there. As soon as it was sorted out, it was easier to build confidence and deliver a better level of play,” he added.

Now with Coca-Cola Park to look forward to, and 1-0 up in the three-match series, the seriousness in Alberts’s voice reminds us that the Boks won’t be taking the week easy. There is a determination to finish the job, to clinch the series and give coach Meyer the perfect start to his rugby career as national coach.

England have already had many nightmares about rampaging “cattle” as assistant coach Graham Rowntree called them. Chances are he won’t stop until the job is done.

As one English scribe said afterwards “Buffalo in these parts are known as widowmakers. After Alberts’s runs we now know why.”

SA like to be direct and intimated the opponent. They like physical border line and not to be too fancy is my idea about the stereotype.

Watching the 3N they like to make attack to the fringe of ruck and kicking and make the momentum toward the other line always in the short path.

Not many team can take this on face to facing and make a win. Other team must find the different way and make the SA change the plan.

Australia for instance look to make the tricky way always and avoid the scrum or make some innovate and dancing quickly around with a lot angles from the backs and move the point attack from place to place.

When Australia do the many phase control they are unstoppable too because moving the point so quickly the defense cannot adapting and then is coming eventually the space and the try made to look easy on the end of it. Look at Pat MaCabe try against Wales is a fine example.

In that situaion is not clear what "conrol the breakdown" mean. I think is about dominate the style of game and make the opposition play to it.

SA used to like to keep slowing down and many professsional cunning like take off the boot or pretend the injury and stop the pace moving up.

But now I think like this style not encouragated by the rules interpretate and while is spectacular to watch Eng and SA go at it on the weekend was also reminiscent of some dinosaurs clash with the heads and only small brains. I worry for them that is not offer much threat to more agile teams. And is Why Wales 6N champion by grand slam and NZ world cup champions.

Sorry to say Biltong but I think this what happen in RWC too and not so much Bryce Lawrence was wrong but he doing what the IRB asking about.

anotherworldofpain wrote:and while is spectacular to watch Eng and SA go at it on the weekend was also reminiscent of some dinosaurs clash with the heads and only small brains.

Ahh gotta love this guy...

Taylorman wrote:

anotherworldofpain wrote:and while is spectacular to watch Eng and SA go at it on the weekend was also reminiscent of some dinosaurs clash with the heads and only small brains.

Ahh gotta love this guy...

Yep about as much as I would love to dinosaur willem alberts into him.

Biltong

What do you think, would the Springboks LEAST want to have to deal with from England in T2??

Whatever the answer is - perhaps that is what we should be doing.....

Looking forward to seeing your backline in action Biltong. SA have always played the game at pace (not as expansively as NZ and Aussie but pace and being expansive are two completely different things). With the increased creativity and the potential to do things that are out of the ordinary we are in for exciting times indeed.

I'm not sure why the Boks vs England game got such a bad rap. It was a far better watch than the NZ training session against the Irish and it just edged the Aus vs Wales in terms of entertainment for me as the tries in that match largely came from appalling defensive errors even if the teams threw the ball about more.

The SA vs England game had a lot going for it in set pieces battles, big hits, big carries, aggressive competition at the breakdown, breaks in the backline, clever backs moves and a game that was competitive for the majority of the 80 minutes (it died a bit after the second try when the gap in points went over 7 and England rallied a little too late). I enjoyed it.

For me personally England looked dangerous on attack, but have the same problem as us with Morne Steyn. Our 10's tend to kick the ball away when we have overlaps.

England stopped our mauls with ease. I have never seen a springbok maul get stopped like that. What England needs is an intelligent centre that can create space and run good angles.

The Boks and England both have young teams and we will only get better with time. England looked scary in some of the 6 nation games.

I expect another physical onslaught come Saturday. Just hope we stop doing the human centipede when we try and kick as it actually creates an easier angle to charge down the kick.

I feel we need Brussow at 6 coetzee 7 alberts at 8. Spies had 2 good seasons 2007 and 2009. Since then he has just looked like a skinny kid in a superman suit , weak in the tackle, easy to bring down and skills of a chess player.

What happened to Armitage? Years ago he was looking promising?

Biltong can you shed any light on Brüssow not being picked in the squad?

Armitage is in France and due to England only selecting players playing in England except in extreme circumstances means he was less likely to be picked. Also, as he is at Toulon who made it to the Top14 Final, he would have had very little time to train with the rest of the squad so Lancaster decided to leave him with his club.

Biltong

From my perspective although Coutzee had a great game with the ball, particlularly as the gaps opened up in the second half, he wasnt that effective in contact in the first 40.

I would put him on the bench, starting Daniel at 6 and later on move Daniel to 8, for Spies, and bring on Coutzee to the flank.
Spies wasnt at his best but at altitiude i would expect him to be more effective and so I would still start him on Saturday.

Finishing a game with the power of Albertz and the pace and athleticism of Daniel and Coutzee could really punch some holes in a tiring English defence, particularly as the Boks front five bench options are so much stronger than England's. I think Daniel could cause real problems from the base of a dominant Boks scrum in the final quarter.

Disneychilli,

Heyneke Meyer feels ,that with the new laws, that fetchers do more bad(penalties) than good(stealing ball).

This is why he didnt pick Brussow or any other fetcher

I suppose it's also a concession then that he feels Brüssow, whilst being in the same pilfering class as McCaw and Pocock, isn't as complete a player as the other two then. Interesting. Wonder if we'll see him in the 4N as not only will scavenging 7s come into play more as Aus and NZ play more expansively than England, Brüssow also has a perfect record against the ABs.

Thanks for the info on that by the way mate.

Daniel is the worst tackler in SR for SA backrows.... he misses about 2+ tackles a game on average. He makes the best yards though.. very good with the ball in hand due to his pace.... he always tends to make ground.

Brussow has unfortunately been eating out on the lions series ever since... his form is very poor. He doesn't offer anything in the lineout, scrum or ball in hand.

His tackling isn't prolific and far worse than other opensides in this years competition i.e. Coetzee & Kolisi.
His main game was the turnovers but he is very quiet these days. I would say Johnson has been the best backrow at the Cheetahs this season, unlucky he didn't make the squad.

Not the most flattering picture

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7807926,00.html