Beck doesn't let me down

When the team was announced I expressed my concern regarding Beck's defence and his tendency to ball watch and get confused by runners. I have to admit I didn't think that he would be bumfuzzled by a simple show and go but there we are.

Great player on the front foot but a liability against good attacking sides. For me did not show enough to compensate for his inability to read what is coming at him and Scott should be restored for the final test. He is young but needs to work on his concentration.

In fairness though he's definately not the only one.

Unless we go all out to destroy the SH teams we will constantly fall short! A change in mentality is needed not personell.

You try to destroy too ruthlessly and you necessarily open up the routes to your own tryline. Northern Hemisphere sides can kinda open up a little with each other but when you do it down south you can be stung in an instant. They even kinda coax you into it, trying to make you feel confident, hoping for the mistakes that open up the broken field play.

So, if you have to go easy on the high tempo, high jinx stuff because they can generally do it better than you, then you say "well maybe just be more brutal and physical than them". Well, yes - that's the NH option that works best for now and Ireland are trying it now after the useless stand-off game they tried in the first test was destroyed.

But that's not easy either because you really have to sustain it for longer than you might expect to in NH as the loose field threat is always present. The SH sides (especially ABs and Australia) will engage willingly in the physical stuff but they'll never take their eye off the opportunity to move away from the heavyweight boxers.

So going all out to destroy the SH teams is a little impractical and in a sense arrogant as you're meeting an equal side if you're lucky and a far superior side if unlucky. Mentality won't do it. Three games of perserverance just might for some of us. Three games is a good deal - time to make the most of the build up potential they give.

Secret

You don't have to open up to destroy teams. When you have the ball you just have to not give it away, 3 times Webb box kicks in the opposition half when they were down a man!!! North, Cuthbert and co could've driven up the middle a few times, then at least given RP an option, instead just set and box kick the ball away!

The SH teams have nothing over us other than belief and killer instinct, if we believe we will kill off when we have the chance.

It's the reason England, despite being an average 6N team since their WC win have still been the better team against SH opposition, it's the reason Scotland know they can grind out wins against them too now, despite being particularly poor up north!!!

If i've said it once I'll say it a thousand times, when an opportunity arises to score / pressure / beat a man / turnover you have to throw everything you have at it and go for it! Wales didn't and were deservedly beaten!!

A couple of forums with Southern Hemisphere fans have commented on Wales needing to grow a pair,
they are saying Wales are there they are good enough just don't believe in themselves.

Jeez o, give the guy a break. It was his first start! I thought he had a steady game and credit for laying on the second try after the Aus fumble..

View

I agree totally, at the point of the yellow card Aus were baked and served on a plate, Webb is brought on and I swear I have never been so happy to see a positive sub. Very dangerous around the fringes, loves to speed the play up. I was genuinely thinking we would put the try on the board that would finish the Aus team off.

Then all he does is box kick and arrange forwards for the rest of the game. We showed no ambition, no attempt to win the game and if we had it would've been a crime against rugby.

I can put up with a guff gameplan, silly mistakes, and poor individual skill, as I did in the first test and the first 60 minutes of the 2nd, but what I cannot stand are players and coaches alike afraid to win, afraid to lose the game in attempting to win. I nearly smashed my living room up in that 20 minute period while we were exchanging kicks and waiting for mistakes!!

So Beck does the work to put Cuthbert in for a try in the first, then captialises on an Australian mistake to put JD2 over the line in the second, yet he should be dropped for a mistake that was as much Warburtons fault as his own?

Curly

Your gifting Beck credit for Davies's try? Really?

thebluesmancometh wrote:Secret

You don't have to open up to destroy teams. When you have the ball you just have to not give it away, 3 times Webb box kicks in the opposition half when they were down a man!!! North, Cuthbert and co could've driven up the middle a few times, then at least given RP an option, instead just set and box kick the ball away!

The SH teams have nothing over us other than belief and killer instinct, if we believe we will kill off when we have the chance.

It's the reason England, despite being an average 6N team since their WC win have still been the better team against SH opposition, it's the reason Scotland know they can grind out wins against them too now, despite being particularly poor up north!!!

If i've said it once I'll say it a thousand times, when an opportunity arises to score / pressure / beat a man / turnover you have to throw everything you have at it and go for it! Wales didn't and were deservedly beaten!!

Possession keeping is effort...not destruction of the opposition. It's concentration and effort and again I say it's a little smug to suggest that kind of game can be played against a team like Australia for great chunks of a game. They'll have their own periods and when they get them the nature of the game will dicate how they choose to play things. If they think you're too far ahead with your possession keeping they'll then do the keeping that needs to be done to destroy you. You just make it seem like motivation is something that only happens to one team per game.

Everyone knows the deal about trying to use every opportunity you get to the maximum, to try to make the pressure count, to make the energy used worth it - but that's rugby - teams don't achieve it as much as they'd like to not because they don't have the mentality but because they either don't have the players they think they have to effect it OR they've come up against a side who can do it better.

SH supremecy isn't about mentality - it's part of it but in no way is it the full deal - it's simply because habitually they play a better game, are more familiar with pace and handling and generally have the better athletic conditioning needed to sustain such a game, because it's the one they play every week.

You'll beat Australia if you beat them - you won't destroy them - they're not that standard of a team.

I'm not saying it was 100% Beck, but he does have a good attitude and willingness to attack. Most of the other players have come on to the pitch looking defeated before the game starts and I can't help but feel that anyone else in that situation would have either just flopped over the ball or played it safe by waiting for the scrum.

Fly

Think you've got it all wrong mate. When I say destroy them I mean go for the jugular, decide to playe aggressively and up the anti. Decision making beat us this week, not Australia.

I'd go as far to say that The Wales 15 that started were a better team than Aus's, as big, as strong, as fast, as technically gifted at least.

With 20 to go against Italy, them down to 14 men, we keep ball and look for opportunities all day long. We are Aus's Italy. We had much less ball, yet looked far more dangerous, infact every time we had a decent platform we got over the game line much easier than I thought we would, or should.

I don't care what anyone says, Webb should've been told to up the pace, tests the fringes and give our backline every opportunity to stretch the Aus team who was missing a man.

Aus only job from the 60th minute was to kill the game off until back up to 15 men, and they didn't have to, we did it for them. Taking scrum after scrum, cheap boxkicks in their half, and kicking long to their back 3!

A yellow card is worth on average 5 points? we managed 3 because we were afraid to go for the jugular, had we upped the tempo and tested the frail Aus defence I have no doubt the score would've killed them off, then we could've gone into our shells, instead of trying to kick and protect a 1 point lead for 20 mins.

I for one was happy when Harris hit that final goal, for the good of rugby, and hopefully for the good of this young welsh team!

I don't think the first Aus try can be 100% blame on Beck, Warbs has to take some responsibility for it as he was the one who couldn't get across to make the tackle.

I your being way to harsh on Beck, he had a good game, he kicked ahead for JD2 try and other than one lapse defended well throughout the game

Beck has played consistently well for two years at Aberavon and for the Ospreys. It was great to see him get his much deserved two caps this last two weekends.

He offers a different style to Roberts JD2 and Williams, a style that has grown as he has and will surely grow more.

Great to see even more competition for places. In many ways he has had more impact than Roberts has had in many games.

Lord Sprey wrote:I don't think the first Aus try can be 100% blame on Beck, Warbs has to take some responsibility for it as he was the one who couldn't get across to make the tackle.

I your being way to harsh on Beck, he had a good game, he kicked ahead for JD2 try and other than one lapse defended well throughout the game

Unfortunately one lapse at this level is often punished. In midfield it is not just being able to tackle people who run straight at you but to read and anticipate the intentions and moves deployed by the opposition. Beck is poor in this respect. While Warbs was slow getting to Barnes Beck should have seen this and reacted by stepping in to plug the gap. While this would have created an overlap it at least gives the scramble defence a chance to stop the move. Simply saying "I stayed with my man" is a bit of a playground "not my fault" level of argument.

I repeat he does not offer more than Scott who to be fair has done nothing to warrent being overtaken by Beck in the pecking order, and at a similar stage of their careers shows more ability to react and react in defence.

It will be a very interesting to see what Howley does.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Decision making beat us this week, not Australia.

Ah, the world-famous Welsh grace in defeat.

Beck WAS at fault for the try, he drifted to early which meant Warburton had to much to do.

And yes I would start with Williams (would have before saturday) but Beck will learn and get better he has a bright future in front of him and its great that lads are getting exposure.