England v Italy, Quarter Final, Build up and Match Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

England v Italy (Sunday 24th June, 19:45 KO, BBC 1)

On the back of good defence, England have notched up 2 wins and a draw, confounding the majority of expectations along the way. The unexpected bonus of topping Group D has given them a game against Italy, not Spain, and England have a glorious chance of reaching their first semi-final in 16 years. Italy haven't really started yet and their sole win was against a poor Ireland team but they did manage an impressive draw against the Spanish. The winners will play Germany.......or maybe Greece.

My prediction: England 1-0 Italy

Come on England!

[monty junior]

I think of those four teams mentioned only Bayern could pay the wages of the top teams in the PL, in fact the problem with a lack of British talent moving abroad is mainly down down to the cushty lifestyle they have at home. There's only really Barca,Bayern,Real Madrid,PSG,Roma possibly Malaga and Anzhi that can match or improve the wages of top home grown internationals. Inter and AC are struggling financially, even Juventus don't have the spending power they once did. It's just too easy back home, no motivation to go abroad to improve because of the ridiculous wages of the PL.

[mystiroakey]

we are going round in circles SR, england need better skilled players.

How do we do that.

I say from grass roots , not mass migration

[GSC]

And as much as this is a problem now, we'll all be enjoying it again when the PL is again heads and tails above La Liga and Serie A in terms of enjoyment, and excitement.

[GSC]

And yeah, the problem is we've prioritised athletic ability above technical ability at youth level.

[monty junior]

And as much as this is a problem now, we'll all be enjoying it again when the PL is again heads and tails above La Liga and Serie A in terms of enjoyment, and excitement.

The Bundesliga is the most exciting and competitive though

[mystiroakey]

There is no good blaming the PL. its a top league and a great asset.

We can however improve at the grass roots level, and that is what we need to concnetrate on- not about reasons why our players dont go anywhere else

[GSC]

I'll give Bundesliga 2nd in that department :P

[mystiroakey]

And as much as this is a problem now, we'll all be enjoying it again when the PL is again heads and tails above La Liga and Serie A in terms of enjoyment, and excitement.

The Bundesliga is the most exciting and competitive though

well thats your opinon- but lets be honest they play much more like the prem than la liga. and the fact is noone cares , its not a well marketed league

[Guest]

Overall England were shocking throughout the tournament and it was only a matter of time and going up against slightly better opposition to that of the poor group that were going to be found out.

These shockingly, negative tactics that handcuffed all of our attacking players just forced us to sit back, invite unnecessary pressure and eventually led to our predicted downfall. Abysmal ball retention throughout the tournament, we even got out played by Ukraine in possession and chances and there ranked over 50th in the world. Embarrasing.

Rooney should never have been picked after not playing for so long. I feel sorry for Ashley Young, completely unfair criticism on England's player of the year who has outperformed any other player in the qualifying and pre-euro warm ups. The Hodgson tactics completely handcuffed his attacking instincts and made him overly-defend, which is completely the opposite of his style and game. Shocking management. Add to the fact Hodgson clearly failed to prepare the team in stopping Pirlo just emphasises why I dislike Hodgson and his negative, boring tactics that will always get punished at the top level.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Graeme you are mad. Giving the ball anyway 80% of the time and hoofing it long is not in my eyes exciting or enjoyable. I turn the TV off and watch Come Dine With Me instead.

[GSC]

Nah Bundesliga is a good watch. Wish Sky would drop its Spanish 'coverage' (i.e Madrid and Barca vs whoever they play weekly), and show German football.

[GSC]

Neither is 500 passes that travel 2 metres across the midfield and back 4.

See I can generalise too.

[super_realist]

Yes Oakey, I'm not saying it isn't,

What I'm saying is that the style of football played in the Premier League, doesn't do the England International team any good.

You can't say that simply because Spain and Germany have grown up as children playing a certain way it is irrelevant how they play in their domestic league.

If the Premier League was played like Spain, concentrating on possesion and passing then England would surely do better in international football.

English Football top to bottom isn't suited to the international game. What's the use in teaching kids to play in a certain way if the top tier of the game is played differently?

[Josiah Maiestas]

mysti do you work for the premier league? Are you Mr Scudamore?

"Great asset" to who? Not for the national team it isn't. Its only matter of time until foreign broadcasters stop buying the rights to show premier league games and stick with Spain, Italy and Germany. Even the MLS has better level of football than the prem.

[Guest]

Nah Bundesliga is a good watch. Wish Sky would drop its Spanish 'coverage' (i.e Madrid and Barca vs whoever they play weekly), and show German football.

Get ESPN buddy. Well worth it.

[GSC]

Haha, I'm a student and get skyplayer from home.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Did you enjoy watching France and Italy run rings around England for 95% of the match? I know I wouldn't. England are more boring than Greece have been...

[super_realist]

It seems that Oakey wants English Premier to maintain the style of football to stay the same as it is now, leading to international failure, but grass roots to change to a style that suits international football.

Also, that if half a dozen top English players went to play in Spain or Germany that it wouldn't improve the chances of success in International tournaments.

You'll be waiting a long time for success then.

[GSC]

Josiah that is complete **** and you know it.

In terms of gross revenue the PL only trails the NFL, NBA and MLB for a reason.

[mystiroakey]

mysti do you work for the premier league? Are you Mr Scudamore?

"Great asset" to who? Not for the national team it isn't. Its only matter of time until foreign broadcasters stop buying the rights to show premier league games and stick with Spain, Italy and Germany. Even the MLS has better level of football than the prem.

lol you do have some odd ideas dont ya- the prem is a great export for this country and long may it continue, its a brilliant and exiting sporting league, the fact that it is so multicultural is one of its biggest pluses and reasons why it will not be dropped for the other leagues you mention in the short to medium term, and the fact it produces brilliant games as well

[monty junior]

And as much as this is a problem now, we'll all be enjoying it again when the PL is again heads and tails above La Liga and Serie A in terms of enjoyment, and excitement.

The Bundesliga is the most exciting and competitive though

well thats your opinon- but lets be honest they play much more like the prem than la liga. and the fact is noone cares , its not a well marketed league

I'm not saying the PL isn't exciting because it is i just think the Bundesliga, from top to bottom is a magnificent league, anyone can win it as opposed to only 3 teams in the PL. It is also completely financially sustainable, with nigh on every side profitting as opposed to the PL which imo is on borrowed time looking at the horrendous debt of some of the teams in the league. To say nobody cares about the BL is small minded and perhaps one of the problems in the psyche of British fans, not widening they're horizons on different styles of playing and a reason for the continously crap standard of technical players in the British game.

[Stella]

Did you enjoy watching France and Italy run rings around England for 95% of the match? I know I wouldn't. England are more boring than Greece have been...

They were in South Africa 2010 and Germany 2006 as well. It pains me to say it but we are a half decent team who are pretty damn boring to watch.

Bring back Keegan

[GSC]

In the CL, 8 PL teams have made the final since 2005.

[super_realist]

Oakey, no one is saying that the Premier League isn't a great export. It obviously is.


What people are saying is that the style of football in the league doesn't do the English national team any good, because the style played by most teams, and adopted by England is inflexible once they come up against Spain, Germany etc, hence QF knockout.

Solution, more players playing abroad learning different skills, different pace and therefore better placed to face this type of opposition.

[mystiroakey]

It seems that Oakey wants English Premier to maintain the style of football to stay the same as it is now, leading to international failure, but grass roots to change to a style that suits international football.

Also, that if half a dozen top English players went to play in Spain or Germany that it wouldn't improve the chances of success in International tournaments.

You'll be waiting a long time for success then.

wy do you keep bringing up international style- we just need to teach our kids how to pass- do you understand!!!!!

no we dont want our players going of to other countries- we want them here playing better football. we would never ever go the dreary root of spainish football- as an international side we would play more like germany in a perfect world- a style very similar to the top pl sides

[Guest]

In the CL, 8 PL teams have made the final since 2005.

And since the ban was lifted we have had four winners, 3 by penalty shoot-outs and Man Utd's get-out-of-jail in 99. An English team is yet to dominate the competition from start to finish.

[GSC]

Also I'd be hesitant to say Serie A has a higher level of quality than the PL. I think the PL surpassed it a few years back.

[mystiroakey]

And as much as this is a problem now, we'll all be enjoying it again when the PL is again heads and tails above La Liga and Serie A in terms of enjoyment, and excitement.

The Bundesliga is the most exciting and competitive though

well thats your opinon- but lets be honest they play much more like the prem than la liga. and the fact is noone cares , its not a well marketed league

I'm not saying the PL isn't exciting because it is i just think the Bundesliga, from top to bottom is a magnificent league, anyone can win it as opposed to only 3 teams in the PL. It is also completely financially sustainable, with nigh on every side profitting as opposed to the PL which imo is on borrowed time looking at the horrendous debt of some of the teams in the league. To say nobody cares about the BL is small minded and perhaps one of the problems in the psyche of British fans, not widening they're horizons on different styles of playing and a reason for the continously crap standard of technical players in the British game.

monty pal the noone cares co,mment is that it isnt a well marketed league to the world.. its not a top world league. i care and i enjoy the football, but i rarely watch it. but then i dont get the opportunity.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Its only "dreary" mysti because its not the English who are able to keep passing like the Spanish can, you wouldnt bother saying something so obtuse if it was England keeping the ball and passing teams to death. What are you having for dinner oakey? Is it McDonalds again?

[monty junior]

And as much as this is a problem now, we'll all be enjoying it again when the PL is again heads and tails above La Liga and Serie A in terms of enjoyment, and excitement.

The Bundesliga is the most exciting and competitive though

well thats your opinon- but lets be honest they play much more like the prem than la liga. and the fact is noone cares , its not a well marketed league

I'm not saying the PL isn't exciting because it is i just think the Bundesliga, from top to bottom is a magnificent league, anyone can win it as opposed to only 3 teams in the PL. It is also completely financially sustainable, with nigh on every side profitting as opposed to the PL which imo is on borrowed time looking at the horrendous debt of some of the teams in the league. To say nobody cares about the BL is small minded and perhaps one of the problems in the psyche of British fans, not widening they're horizons on different styles of playing and a reason for the continously crap standard of technical players in the British game.

monty pal the noone cares co,mment is that it isnt a well marketed league to the world.. its not a top world league. i care and i enjoy the football, but i rarely watch it. but then i dont get the opportunity.

Sorry but pretty much all the top leagues are in Europe, the German league is third in the continent so how on earth is it not a top world league? loads of my mates have ESPN and watch the Bundesliga as much as the PL and more than the Spanish due to the free flowing attack and skill levels of the league which imo is unmatched anywhere else.

[mystiroakey]

I dont eat mcdonalds- what the heck are you talking about?

i want our teams to pass- dont you get the point. but i am looking towards germany or even holland's as a style that is more akin to what i like rather than the spainish style.

I AM LOOKING AT OTHER NATIONS STYLE'S OVER THE SPAINISH as a method for england to look up to.

[mystiroakey]

And as much as this is a problem now, we'll all be enjoying it again when the PL is again heads and tails above La Liga and Serie A in terms of enjoyment, and excitement.

The Bundesliga is the most exciting and competitive though

well thats your opinon- but lets be honest they play much more like the prem than la liga. and the fact is noone cares , its not a well marketed league

I'm not saying the PL isn't exciting because it is i just think the Bundesliga, from top to bottom is a magnificent league, anyone can win it as opposed to only 3 teams in the PL. It is also completely financially sustainable, with nigh on every side profitting as opposed to the PL which imo is on borrowed time looking at the horrendous debt of some of the teams in the league. To say nobody cares about the BL is small minded and perhaps one of the problems in the psyche of British fans, not widening they're horizons on different styles of playing and a reason for the continously crap standard of technical players in the British game.

monty pal the noone cares co,mment is that it isnt a well marketed league to the world.. its not a top world league. i care and i enjoy the football, but i rarely watch it. but then i dont get the opportunity.

Sorry but pretty much all the top leagues are in Europe, the German league is third in the continent so how on earth is it not a top world league? loads of my mates have ESPN and watch the Bundesliga as much as the PL and more than the Spanish due to the free flowing attack and skill levels of the league which imo is unmatched anywhere else.

I agree that bundes is very simliar to the PL, A point i am tryimng to make to others, but the bundes just isnt big on a world level- Its all about the prem and la liga on a world level(non european markets- hence the reason i said world)

[Guest]

Its only "dreary" mysti because its not the English who are able to keep passing like the Spanish can, you wouldnt bother saying something so obtuse if it was England keeping the ball and passing teams to death. What are you having for dinner oakey? Is it McDonalds again?

I've always thought of the MYST as a KFC man myself. Can't beat a good bucket.

[monty junior]

I dont eat mcdonalds- what the heck are you talking about?

Why not?

[mystiroakey]

its disgusting- i take it you like it

[Stella]

You could compare England's football to McDonalds............Not much substance and leaves you feeling ropey.

[Guest]

its disgusting- i take it you like it

If you ever have a banging hangover then pop down to your local Maccie D's and get yourself 3 double cheeseburgers and a large fries. It's a proven winner Myst.

[Guest]

You could compare England's football to McDonalds............Not much substance and leaves you feeling ropey.

Brilliant.

[dummy_half]

Myst

Agree with you entirely - we should be looking to emulate the German style of play, which combines physical strength, organisation and sound technique to produce effective and fairly direct football, rather than the Spanish approach of pure possession football. It would require far less of a change in style, just incremental improvement in technique - I think the players are nearly there, although we need a few of the younger guys to keep improving (e.g. Phil Jones at centre back, the Ox as an attacking midfielder / winger / off-striker, Carroll as far as linking ability once he gets the ball under control).

Spain's style is well suited to a team used to playing in the heat against teams that aren't used to it, but it takes a lot of physical fitness and mental strength to maintain a high standard of passing for 90 minutes (and they press the ball so quickly when they do lose it - again, high energy). England at the moment, especially with an ageing central defence and central midfield (3 of 4 past 30) don't have the capacity to play this way even if they had the technique.

[super_realist]

It seems that Oakey wants English Premier to maintain the style of football to stay the same as it is now, leading to international failure, but grass roots to change to a style that suits international football.

Also, that if half a dozen top English players went to play in Spain or Germany that it wouldn't improve the chances of success in International tournaments.

You'll be waiting a long time for success then.

wy do you keep bringing up international style- we just need to teach our kids how to pass- do you understand!!!!!

no we dont want our players going of to other countries- we want them here playing better football. we would never ever go the dreary root of spainish football- as an international side we would play more like germany in a perfect world- a style very similar to the top pl sides

Are you being deliberately retarded?
There is a world cup in two years. Exactly how far do you think England will get with the players playing the same way as they do in the premier league.

Why do I keep going on about international football? Perhaps because this is a thread about international football and englands failure therein.

Getting kids playing decent football from the start is good, but you won't yield a result for 20 odd years, although if the league doesn't change it will all be in vain.

Clear enough for you?

[mystiroakey]

It seems that Oakey wants English Premier to maintain the style of football to stay the same as it is now, leading to international failure, but grass roots to change to a style that suits international football.

Also, that if half a dozen top English players went to play in Spain or Germany that it wouldn't improve the chances of success in International tournaments.

You'll be waiting a long time for success then.

wy do you keep bringing up international style- we just need to teach our kids how to pass- do you understand!!!!!

no we dont want our players going of to other countries- we want them here playing better football. we would never ever go the dreary root of spainish football- as an international side we would play more like germany in a perfect world- a style very similar to the top pl sides

Are you being deliberately retarded?
There is a world cup in two years. Exactly how far do you think England will get with the players playing the same way as they do in the premier league.

Why do I keep going on about international football? Perhaps because this is a thread about international football and englands failure therein.

Getting kids playing decent football from the start is good, but you won't yield a result for 20 odd years, although if the league doesn't change it will all be in vain.

Clear enough for you?

SR I HAVE ALLWAYS BEEN TALKING GRASS ROOTS, I HAVE NEVER DISCUSSED THE WORLD CUP IN 2 YEARS, I have no idea what you are trying to argue!!!

I am talking about the long term approach- I really couldnt give a monkies about 2 years time at this moment in time- all i know is we have no chance in it.

Clear enough for you??

[mystiroakey]

Why do you keep mentioning this ludicrous soloution about our players going of to spain or germany before the next world cup-- Its not gonna happen in the short term- it give you odds of 100000000000000000000000000000000000000/1

lets sort out the future.. the grass roots and stop discusiing impossibilties shall we

[Jimmy Moz]

Nevermind hey fellas at least you have got Andy Murray to cheer on at Wimbledon. Im sure the English public will be supporting him and hopefully he can lift the spirits of the country for you

[Josiah Maiestas]

Getting kids playing decent football from the start is good, but you won't yield a result for 20 odd years

It'd help if the coaches in this country were intelligent at spotting talent. Could you imagine foreign teams having managers like Tony Pulis, Allardyce, Warnock etc? Gerrard gets hyped up but doesn't have the patience to play it simple and keep passes ticking over, hoofs the ball too much like a pub player.

[Josiah Maiestas]

Nevermind hey fellas at least you have got Andy Murray to cheer on at Wimbledon. Im sure the English public will be supporting him and hopefully he can lift the spirits of the country for you

Murray could lift our spirits if he gets hammered in the 1st round!!

[mystiroakey]

not SR's spirits he is a scottie!!!

nah i am cheering him on anyway, kind off i suppose. talented player

[Jimmy Moz]

Murray could lift our spirits if he gets hammered in the 1st round!!

And they say people who cheer on England opponents are childish.

[mystiroakey]

we can all cheer our oylimpiads on together- hows that!

[The Galveston Giant]

Having a nice cold cider to celebrate

Get a bit of blackcurrant in that Steff. Beautiful.

I do indeed fella. Cider and black is the business

Ain't touched a pure cider, sober anyway, since I had my stomach pumped when I was 15 years old when you could get sozzled on a £1.50 bottle of Amberdown down the local park. You don't seem to see that anymore with our youth. The world has gone mad.

Fear not Freekshow, us Scottish keep the tradition going strong.

[super_realist]

Often referred to as Glasgow champagne.

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