What Make the Star Shine?

First topic message reminder :

2012 - IRB Junior Player of the Year: Jan Serfontein (South Africa)
2011 - IRB Junior Player of the Year: George Ford (England)
2010 - IRB Junior Player of the Year: Julian Savea (New Zealand)
2009 - IRB Junior Player of the Year: Aaron Cruden (New Zealand)
2008 - IRB Junior Player of the Year: Luke Braid (New Zealand)
2007 - IRB International U19 Player of the Year: Robert Fruean (New Zealand)
2006 - IRB International U19 Player of the Year: Josh Holmes (Australia)
2006 - IRB International U21 Player of the Year: Lionel Beauxis (France)
2005 - IRB International U19 Player of the Year: Isaia Toeava (New Zealand)
2005 - IRB International U21 Player of the Year: Tatafu Polota-Nau (Australia)
2004 - IRB International U19 Player of the Year: Jeremy Thrush (New Zealand)
2004 - IRB International U21 Player of the Year in association with Waterford Crystal: Jerome Kaino (New Zealand)
2003 - IRB U19 Player of the Year: Jean Baptiste Payras (France)
2003 - IRB U21 Player of the Year in assoc. with Waterford Crystal: Ben Atiga (New Zealand)
2002 - IRB U19 Player of the Year: Luke McAlister (New Zealand)
2002 - IRB U21 Player of the Year, in assoc. with Waterford: Pat Barnard (South Africa)
2001 - IRB Young Player of the Year: Gavin Henson (Wales)

Of these players identify at age group level as best player of the year very few make the star quality to the senior team.

World cup hero Jerome Kaino and Australian ball carrier Tatafu Polota-Nau probably the big successful story there follow by promise of Aaron Cruden. Some get to the level but ultimate are a bit dissapointment such as Luke McAlister and Isaia Toeava and not standing out like they do in the age group team.

Some not make the step up at all such as Ben Atiga, Braid and Fruean. Least say about Gavin Henson the better because (a) he was terrible and (b) will upset some fans to say that...and of course "jury still out" on Julian Savea and George Ford because they don't have a chance yet.

So can we make the prediction about the young talent? is the picking process justified? how they miss megastar like Dan Carter and Chris Ashton? do they rely on too much pick the player from the winning team? Is it fair to miss out star players from lesser change teams like Scotland, for example rising star Tim Visser and Shingler?

Where come from the stars of the game that not shining at this level? Will this year winner Jan Serfontein make the splash or belly flop for the growing up Springboks? and what is the magical sprinkle dust that turn an age group star into a adult world megastar?

Post on topic please caoimgincente, because you will be one of the first to go running to the mods if it getting a bit nasty

Now do you want to discuss "what make the star shine"? or you are here on to trolling my thread?

its ok i mind myself.

i was only showing concern

How kind of you.

you are most welcome.

when looking at how good a player it is hard to judge when examining them in their age group. generally only 3 or 4 players will make the grade to senior level. as such there are more weaknesses in an U20's to exploit.

this may give certain players the abiltiy to exploit this weakness. a weakness that may not be there at senior level./ hence why they dont shine at senior level

So in your opinion which 3 or 4 players made it for the team you supporting?

anotherworldofpain wrote:So in your opinion which 3 or 4 players made it for the team you supporting?

what particular year?

2001 of afterwards

anotherworldofpain wrote:2001 of afterwards

Do you really want me to go through every single u20's team from 2001 and name the players that made it at senior level?

come on man use some common sense

No, I mean any year is your choose. What is the favourite to you is fine by me. But I am not going to know any U20s player before 2001 because I didn't living here and names are too anonymous by then.

?

Can you explain the question again

Wales Under-20 Squad V France (14th March 08):

Daniel Evans (Scarlets);
Leigh Halfpenny (Blues),
Jonathan Davies (Scarlets),
Gareth Owen (Ospreys),
Jimmy Norris (Dragons);
Daniel Biggar (Ospreys),
Rhys Webb (Ospreys);

Sam Hobbs (Blues),
Rhys Lawrence (Ospreys),
Patrick Palmer (Blues),
Haydn Pugh (Scarlets),
Jevon Groves (capt, Blues),
Josh Turnbull (Scarlets),
Justin Tipuric (Ospreys),
Lloyd Phillips (Scarlets).

Replacements:
Ryan Prosser (Bristol Academy),
Ryan Bevington (Ospreys),
Scott Andrews (Blues),
Ashley Sweet (Dragons),
Rory Pitman (Ospreys),
Luke Evans (Blues),
Jason Tovey (Dragons)

Bold = Capped international

anotherworldofpain wrote:No, I mean any year is your choose. What is the favourite to you is fine by me. But I am not going to know any U20s player before 2001 because I didn't living here and names are too anonymous by then.

There weren't any U20 teams back in 2001.

Team From 2007

15: Felix Jones (Seapoint)
14: Shane Monaghan (Dublin University)
13: Eoin O'Malley (UCD)
12: Eoin Fleck (Dublin University)
11: Vasily Artemiev (UCD)
10: Brian Collins (Clontarf)
9: Steve Cranley (Greystones)

1: Ruaidhri Murphy (Castleknock College)
2: Richard Sweeney (St. Mary's College)
3: Jamie Hagan (Lansdowne)
4: Robin Copeland (St. Mary's College)
5: Conor McInerney (UCD) CAPTAIN
6: Tom Walsh (Dublin University)
7: Kevin Gallagher (Terenure College)
8: Sean O'Brien (UCD)

Replacements:

16: Stephen Verso (Blackrock College)
17: David Mahony (Old Belvedere)
18: Cian Healy (Clontarf)
19: Burschi Wojnar (Greystones)
20: Paul O'Donohoe (UCD)
21: Andrew Cummiskey (UCD)
22: Cillian Byrne (Terenure College)

All the bolds are current internationals.

interesting healy on the bench.

Amazing that Murphy kept Healy out back in the day. I see that Murph is keen to play for Oz now

Do you think Felix Jones was success though? SOB and Cian Healy are outstanding player obviously.

anotherworldofpain wrote:Do you think Felix Jones was success though? SOB and Cian Healy are outstanding player obviously.

very unlucky with injury. he is good player though. but if you want to nit pick!!!

AWOP, here is the Wales team that beat France 43-8 in 2010;

Wales Under-20 team: Dan Fish (Blues); James Loxton (Blues), Ben John (Ospreys), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Kristian Phillips (Ospreys); Matthew Jarvis (Ospreys), Rhys Downes (Blues); Dan Watchurst (Dragons), Rhys Williams (Blues), Simon Gardiner (Scarlets), Macauley Cook (Blues), Lloyd Peers (Ospreys), Morgan Allen (Pontypool), Josh Navidi (capt, Blues), Toby Faletau (Dragons).
Replacements: Ieuan Davies (Glamorgan Wanderers), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), James Thomas (Dragons), Rhys Jenkins (Dragons), Edward Siggery (Llandovery), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Dean Gunter (Blues). Travelling reserve: Trystan Davies (Scarlets).

Capped internationals in bold. Guys who have regional exposure in italic (but I may have missed one or two). Seeing as the point is to develop rugby players then surely it is a success? Loxton and Jarvis are soon to be capped I believe (by Ireland) .

So the estimation about 2-3 seem about right for Ireland and Wales! Good comments! What about other team? anybody know if some team consistent is to develop more international from this route?

To be honest I don't remember Rhodri Jones, did he feature to some international I will remember?

Btw SS, are you sure it wasn't Warbs in the team you have put up? I thought Tipuric came a year after.

Morg - there looking at the Welsh teams (the ones you and I gave) there are a few lads who have been training with the welsh squad too (Owen, Hobbs, Tovey, Navidi, K Phillips) so they could be marked up as future internationals, when someone gets injured.

anotherworldofpain wrote:So the estimation about 2-3 seem about right for Ireland and Wales! Good comments! What about other team? anybody know if some team consistent is to develop more international from this route?

To be honest I don't remember Rhodri Jones, did he feature to some international I will remember?

He got capped in the Baa-Baas game. Nobody remembers those. At least in the modern day ones.

Morgannwg wrote:Btw SS, are you sure it wasn't Warbs in the team you have put up? I thought Tipuric came a year after.

I pinched the team off the BBC wales report for the match (can't find it now grrr)



http://www.rugbydump.com/2008/06/561/final-whistle-fight-after-dramatic-win-by-the-welsh-under-20s

Morgannwg wrote:

What Make the Star Shine?

Nuclear fusion.

I thought it was vikings die

So the jury might still be out on if he is successful "star" from the U20?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Btw SS, are you sure it wasn't Warbs in the team you have put up? I thought Tipuric came a year after.

I pinched the team off the BBC wales report for the match (can't find it now grrr)



http://www.rugbydump.com/2008/06/561/final-whistle-fight-after-dramatic-win-by-the-welsh-under-20s

Wasn't Halfpenny on the wing too?

Ireland v Wales JWC 2009; guys from both teams now established in professional rugby (http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/8168.php).

France v Wales U20 six nations 2009; Williams, Beck, Knoyle, Andrews, Tipuric all capped with others such as Tovey, Hughes, Phillips expected to make the step-up aswell. (http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/16863.php).

AWOP - Rhoddri Jones was capped over the summer. He is a loosehead who the wru want to convert to the tight.

Morg - Harry Robinson can be added from this years under 20s

Wales Under 20 squad for IRB Junior World Championship:

Backs:
Rhys Webb (Ospreys),
Gareth Williams (Ospreys),
Dan Biggar (Ospreys),
Gareth Owen (Ospreys),
Jonathan Davies (Scarlets),
Rhys Williams (Scarlets),
Luke Ford (Blues),
Jimmy Norris (Dragons),
Nathan Rees (Blues),
Leigh Halfpenny (Blues),
Daniel Evans (Scarlets),
Jason Tovey (Dragons)

Forwards:
Sam Hobbs (Blues),
Ryan Bevington (Ospreys),
Scott Andrews (Blues),
Patrick Palmer (Blues),
Ryan Prosser (Bristol),
Rhys Lawrence (Ospreys),
Jevon Groves (Blues),
Haydn Pugh (Scarlets),
Ashley Sweet (Dragons),
Justin Tipuric (Ospreys),
Lloyd Phillips (Scarlets),
Josh Turnbull (Scarlets),
Sam Warburton (Blues, capt),
Dan Franks (Blues)

After 4 years 10 have been capped, and 3 have trainned with the international squad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7387831.stm


Wales Under 20 squad 2011 JWC:

Forwards:
Rhodri Jones (Scarlets/Llanelli),
Lewis Smout (Blues/Pontypridd),
Will Taylor (Ospreys/Swansea),
WillGriff John (Blues/Pontypridd),
Kirby Myhill (Scarlets/Llanelli),
Sam Parry (Llandovery),
Cory Hill (Blues/Pontypridd),
Macauley Cook (Blues/Cardiff),
Luke Hamilton (Blues/Glamorgan Wanderers),
Lloyd Peers (Ospreys/Bridgend),
Edward Siggery (Pontypridd),
Thomas Young (Blues/Cardiff),
Ben Thomas (Ospreys/Bridgend),
Owen Sheppeard (Blues/Pontypridd).

Backs:
Liam Williams (Llanelli),
Harry Robinson (Blues/Cardiff),
Eli Walker (Ospreys/Swansea),
Dale Ford (Scarlets/Llanelli),
Owen Williams (Blues/Cardiff),
Adam Warren (Llandovery),
Iolo Evans (Scarlets/Llanelli)
Steve Shingler (Scarlets/Llanelli), (Ok not with Wales but still trainned with the Scots international squad)
Matthew Morgan (Ospreys/Swansea),
Lewis Robling (Dragons/Newport),
Lewis Jones (Blues/Pontypridd),
Jonathan Evans (Dragons/Newport).

Within 1 year 4 have been capped, and a further 2 have trainned with an international squad

http://www.irb.com/jwc/news/newsid=2042476.html

(Bold are capped, italics have been in training squads.)

Hard to believe how such a good squad of players got 92 nilled and lost to Fiji in 2011 SS, isn't it?

I expect a number to go on and gain honours (some already have with their Regions and the Wales Sevens) from the 2012 squad. Looks like the U20s is a success (as I mentioned hours ago).

Morg - that, ah what to call it, slight loss to the baby Blacks did seem to have a bit of a positive effect though, more or less the same squad shown a hige improvement the following time around.

Yes, not to mention drastic changes to the way we run rugby. I hope they keep pushing for young guys to break into the Prem, Regions and Sevens; because I'm not sure if all the U20s would be regulars in their premiership team.

You have to take in to account the quality of the NZ squad though and the conditions, it was like the Scotland - Australia game in many ways. When we tried the same tactics in the 2nd game against them when there was dry weather, they were found out. That was one of the worst NZ teams there has been in a while and they still made the final.

Yes was some strange tactic by the baby wales on the knock out game. They try to play very conservative and got rip apart. I think it was some massive blundering by the coaches to make the plan and then some failure of the players to adapting when they saw it was not working. A shame because my mind was the young wales side had the quality to making a good expansive game too, and even if they dont win they could have make a better show and gone out at least true to the welsh way of rugby! Do you agreeing?

Yes I do agree, because as said it was a good squad of juniors with the potential to play expansive. Nobody was remotely close to the Baby Blacks that year though (or the many years prior).

AWOP - I think they didn't let themselves down, and they went out in style when they beat Argentina the following match.

Morgannwg wrote:Yes I do agree, because as said it was a good squad of juniors with the potential to play expansive. Nobody was remotely close to the Baby Blacks that year though (or the many years prior).

Am I confuse? We were talking about this year? When Wales win in the pool and then lose in the knock out? then baby blacks get beated by SA in the final?

Oh, I thought we were still talking about the previous year sorry. The 2012 class are pretty good, and should provide us some depth in the forwards (mostly just front-row and back-row). Most of the backs were already established professionals.