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Post by racingnut Sun 01 Jul 2012, 7:34 pm

Four of our Classics have been and gone,memories good or bad,consigned to the record books forever and our Irish counterparts have seen three of their five go the same way.Three of the colts prizes among those seven have fallen to Camelot,the second coming,the next megastar...it goes on and on... but does that tell us anything about Aidan O Briens current number one or does it tell us everything about the rest of the colts Classic generation? His victory yesterday told us absolutely nothing that we didnt already know,in what was the weakest Classic that ive seen in many a year,on ground that wouldnt have been out of place on Irish Champion Hurdle day,he did enough to hold of his four challengers and maintain the unbeaten aura that will probably carry him forward to the Leger and a date with destiny.Having watched his Classic wins over,trawled the form before and after the events,studied the respective efforts of the also rans i just cant help feeling that he is the best of a very,very mediocre bunch.His Newmarket 2000 Guineas run at the time looked very useful,he still won even though everything was against him but in the coldlight of day the form has more holes in it than a piece of Swiss cheese,the placed horses and those close to the places have produced efforts that vary from solid(Hermivals St James Palace second) to absolutely desperate(French Fifteen on more than one occasion since),i judge a classic on the also rans who pick up the Group 3 and Listed events,these are the ones who give the form substance but horses like the two above mentioned,Coup De Ville,Rougemont,Fencing have all been put in their places over a variety of trips by a handful of different horses,at every level form Group 1 to Listed.
His Derby winning form is hardly that much better,although it must be said that not all of his rivals have run since.The second,Main Sequence,hasnt raced since but it looks like he and Camelot himself are the only ones who can redeem this years Epsom renewal.The third,Astrology,has put up two very lacklustre efforts since,never looking like cutting the ice in the King Edward and then acting as a target for Camelot in yesterdays Curragh showpiece.It maybe that his Epsom exertions have bottomed Astrology,he was carried out on his shield after giving it all and more but he looks a shell of the horse that waltzed around Chester and was so valiant in defeat in the Blue Riband.The Epsom fourth,Thought Worthy,ran in the same King Edward as Astrology and although he shaped much better in finishing a close up third the fact that Noble Mission,a horse that has more headgear than Gertrude Shilling and Thomas Chippendale,beaten in a handicap two runs previous,managed to run him down did little for shining the Derby forms lustreless coating.In a normal year the so called no hopers who contest the Derby can still pick up run of the mill events but this years motley crew are getting beat in handicaps and condition events that are really only glorified handicaps.To say that the Classic form of this season lacks depth is the original understatement,hindsight is a wonderful thing and you can only beat whats put in front of you but Camelot has beaten horses that wouldnt look out of place in the Triumph Hurdle.He may be head,shoulders and torso above his Classic counterparts but that really isnt anything to get excited about.A meeting with Frankel was muted,possibly at York over 10..blah...blah..blah...blah,clash of the generations and all that codswallop,it just wont happen,Camelot will retire unbeaten if he runs against his own generation,he has nothing to fear from any three year old over any of the Championship distances but not because hes that good but because the rest are that poor.There will be others who claim Camelot to be one of the best horses theyve seen,a true Great and all that rubbish,thats their opinion and they are entitled to it,i think hes been very lucky to around in a Classic year that is as lamentably low on talent as any i can remember.

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Post by Guest Mon 02 Jul 2012, 11:41 am

Another interesting read OK The Irish Derby (1 mile four furlongs) was run on what seemed heavy ground - how much further does that make the distance compared to say good to soft. Camelot seemed to want to drift left in the final run to the line.

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Post by racingnut Mon 02 Jul 2012, 8:12 pm

A mile and four is a mile and four irespective of the ground its just that when the ground is really bad it negates any advantage that "speed" horses have and ones that just keep grinding can actually come out on top even though they dont have as much basic speed as the others.Camelot is a strong traveller and he has a kick,that combination isnt suited to a slog in the mud.He drifted left probably through him being just about at the limit.The Leger will more than likely hold no fears trip wise as long as it doesnt come up bottomless,if it does end up a slog then Doncaster is an unforgiving place with its long,staring home straight.I was there the year Scorpion won it in a bog and it wasnt pretty,they finished like three mile chasers.

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Post by Guest Sun 08 Jul 2012, 2:46 am

An unrelated detail to this thread: Black Caviar was found to have injured itself during the Diamond Jubilee Race: "an examination by veterinarian Peter Angus and chiropractor Michael Bryant later revealed that Black Caviar sustained a grade-four tear of the quadriceps and a grade-two tear of the sacroiliac during the race.". They don't plan to retire it and they believe she will make a full recovery.

I watched Nathaniel win the Coral-Eclipse Stakes at Sandown. It took the lead quite early and then along came Farhh like a steam train to almost overtake it, but Nathaniel responded and kicked clear again to win.

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Post by racingnut Sun 08 Jul 2012, 9:25 am

So You Thinks defection took a little sparkle from the event but it still produced a cracking renewal.Full marks to Nathaniel and his connections,to win this first up was a supreme effort by horse and trainer.He was one of only three real Group one performers in the field,Twice Over and Cityscape being the others,and its amazing how in Group one races Group one horses come to the fore,first,third and fourth.The winner was given the perfect Sandown ride,always close up,got the rail and got that all important first run when straightened up for home,its quite uncanny how many horses do hang on when they get first run around this place,you would think that on a real stiff track that they would"comeback" but it doesnt happen very often.Farhh threw down a solid challenge but i always thought that Nathaniel was holding him,they finished a little way clear of Twice Over who returned to something like his old self and in fact he may have been a shade closer but for getting little in the way of room from the entrance to the home straight to about the two marker.Cityscape didnt appear to truly get home but lost no caste in fourth,back over a stiff mile with a little cut he can regain the winning thread.The rest really didnt count and Bonfires lacklustre effort did little to advertise what is fast becoming very poor Classic contender form.
Nathaniel will go to the King George with strong claims and if all the protagonists turn up then it looks a cracker,he himself will almost certainly improve from this run and a return to 12f will again be a plus,whether Ascot rides as soft as Sandown is in the lap of the Gods,if it does then he has major claims,if it doesnt then one or two might have a bit too much toe for him.It isnt Ascot that i have my eyes on for him,its Paris in the Autumn,i think hes ready made for the Arc.Strong traveller,likes a strong pace,who races close to the pace and who likes to get his toe in,everything that the Arc throws at a horse.Hes about 7 or 8 /1 at the moment,if he wins the King George then he'll be less than half those odds,at this current time i reckon hes the best ew value in the field.

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Post by Guest Sat 21 Jul 2012, 8:15 am

Nathaniel "ready" for King George VI And Queen Elizabeth Stakes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/horse-racing/18914847
Nathaniel
Sea Moon
St Nicholas Abbey
Dunaden
Danedream
Deep brillante ...

Looks to be a difficult race to call.

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Post by Guest Sat 21 Jul 2012, 4:46 pm

Arc winner Danedream wins by a nose. Strange race - Nathaniel again went to the front, but Danedream was coming through like a train and seemed like it would easily win, but again Nathaniel quickened, but Danedream had the momentum and they were nose to nose.

Again O'Brien right at the back with St Nicholas left it too late to properly challenge. I am not convinced with J O'Brien, he also seems to have grown too big.

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Post by racingnut Wed 25 Jul 2012, 8:22 pm

Im afraid that young O Brien and Ryan Moore wont look back on his years King George with any joy,their respective mounts recieved pretty ordinary efforts from the saddle and whilst it would be folly to say that either of them would have actually won with a better judged ride,it is fact that they both should have been a deal closer to the principals.Its an old adage that you can give away weight but not start,that adage has never rung truer than on Saturday.Its okay giving inferior horses a bit of slack but trying to give horses with the calibre of Danedream and Nathaniel up to 5 lengths or more start over a home straight of little more than two furlongs is asking the nigh on impossible.St Nicholas Abbey and Sea Moon need everything to drop for them for them to be seen in their best light,whether they will get that in any coming engagement is totally in the lap of the racing Gods.The Arc,you would think,will offer the big field,strong pace they crave but their run style,coming from way back,can be a navigational nightmare to pull off and if they pull a poor draw then it really is curtains.With the Arc in mind its the second,Nathaniel who interests me,he has the perfect run style for Paris in October,strong traveller,close to the pace,lots of bottle and likes cut in the ground.I really do think that if he pulls the almost pre requisite requirement of a single figure draw then he is the one to beat.

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Post by racingnut Sat 15 Sep 2012, 7:44 pm

The strong afternoon sunshine cast giant shadows on the finest of Yorkshire greenery,the hubbub of the crowd grew fainter to the ear and as they turned after slowing from their racing pace a young Irishman aboard a handsome colt gazed that gaze,a thousand yard stare down the long,forboding,unforgiving Town Moor straight,almost transfixed by something nobody else could see.Was it a ghostly apperition of Nijinsky and Lester,bottom pointed skyward,kidding and cajoling Charles Engelhards wonderful colt into racing folklore? Or was it the Shangri La of the Triple Crown that had slipped away like sand through your fingers fading from his view? The Holy Grail of the Classic generation once again remains almost a poison chalice,Oh So Sharp still the last to grasp the nettle.So what of Camelot and this three year old group? As stated before on this thread i think this particular crop are the worst and certainly the most inconsistent Classic generation that i can remember.Aside from Camelot,the rest have run against each other on numerous occasions,albeit on different tracks with differing ground conditions,yet no two pieces of form stand up,a different winner each time and respective challengers swapping around the placings at will.Impossible to get a true handle of their abilities apart from the aforementioned Camelot.Although beaten today he does remain the one shining light,he was and probably still is the best over a mile and it goes without question that he is the best over a mile and a half,its just a shame that he was unable to produce at the end of todays mile and three quarters what he produced at the end of Epsoms rollercoaster rim mile and a half,the final two furlongs just seemed to blunt his potent change of gear.So what next? Does he go to Paris? do they tilt at the windmill and go to Ascot and take on the legend that is Frankel? or do they draw stumps on him? Ballydoyle will make whatever decision they think best for the horse,yes it would be nice to see him stay in training for another season,to see him develop,to see him test his mettle against the next generation,his pedigree suggests that he must get better with age and with the Triple Crown now a distant memory surely they have nothing to lose.

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Post by Guest Tue 18 Sep 2012, 10:15 pm

I have seen a few blaming young O'Brien - he seemed to get boxed in and made a charge rather late - started to close on Encke right at the end but not enough distance. Some say that Camelot just wasn't good enough over this distance but I thought O'Brien should have made a move earlier.

Elder O'Brien said something along the lines that if he had known it was going to be run so slowly he would have had pacemakers in the field. If the race was run so slowly I would have thought Camelot should have been brought closer to the front early on.

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