Former World Champions...!

Over the last Twenty five years we heard little moaning about the Kiwis losing the crown they rightfully owned.

Little jealousy by being usurped by other nations, surprise defeats by perceived lesser adversaries at critical times.

As a member and loyal fan of a non World cup winning nation I don't know how it would feel to win the RWC, let alone to not win it for a long period and see other nations, even former whipping boys, take wins from you.

In consideration, over the last quarter of a decade, as the most often number one ranked side, the inaugrual RWC winners, the Kiwis showed a great deal of decorum.

A modicome of which many could all take on board as example.

As a VERY Great All Black supporter I can`t really argue with that since 1987.
played 256 ,won 209,drawn 4.lost 43 a period of 25 years an average of about 82% wins,2 RWCs and 10 x3Ns titles a very respectable record over the period.Thank you Maestegmafia for the post i`m sure my NZ friends appreciate it I do!!!.

Cheers Maesteg

We're a humble folk really.

maestegmafia wrote:Over the last Twenty five years we heard little moaning about the Kiwis losing the crown they rightfully owned.

Really?

While it seems most kiwi posters on here are decent sorts - every rugby club round my neck of the woods has a kiwi member who will go on (and on) every Saturday night about how they have been cheated out of several world cups.

I think it's because most of us expect to wake up tomorrow, find it's all dream, and we lost in the final to France.................

Although I have only been using rugby foums for the past 4 years or so, I think most rugby folk are decent when it comes to "bragging rights"

I haven't seen that many that aren't, be it winning the HC, Super XV, Tri Nations, Six Nations etc.

Perhaps the NZ supporters are so relieved to have won "old Bill" that they haven't even considered any other options.

Then of course they must have been hugely thankful to my dear friend Bruce.

Apart from toadying up to NZ what's the point of this article?

Its in the Webb Ellis loser's contractual small print....occasionally the rest of us have to remind them how wonderful they are now that they have nowt to complain about.

mowgli wrote:Its in the Webb Ellis loser's contractual small print....occasionally the rest of us have to remind them how wonderful they are now that they have nowt to complain about.

It's just as well they never moan about refs, food poisoning, shirt colours etc. Heaven forbid they could lose to a better side occasionally

biltongbek wrote:Then of course they must have been hugely thankful to my dear friend Bruce.

You still going on about Bryce Lawrence Biltong? You need to let it go for your own health and wellbeing, it can't be good for you.

Also, I have never in my whole life met another Australian named 'Bruce'.

I do recall watching Sean Fitzpatrick explain why they hadn't won the RWC since 97 a few years back. In essence he said the following

91 - we were complacent
95 - food poisoning
99 - we were complacent
03 - we were complacent
07 - we were complacent

Whilst it is rather humble to say they as a team didn't take the opposition more serious in previous tournaments... he never mentioned that in previous tournaments, other teams were simply better than them. Its only 1 man but he's no Murray Mexted so is this how many in NZ truly feel about the previous RWCs??? Other than the 95 health issue and the 07 QF knock out, they don't really have claim to any other tournaments in terms of... arguable injustice.

91 - AUS were the best team and had been for the last couple of years.

95 - I won't mention it for diplomatic purposes but even then, a win in Ellis Park for a visiting side is very very rare.. esp. in a meaningful test match.

99 - Again AUS were the better side and proved it in the years to come.

03 - ENG were by far the best side and had been for the last 2 years prior to the tournament... They back this up home and away.

07 - true. They didn't go for it, they had a few unlucky breaks.

It's ridiculous to assume they would've won in '07 when the only decent team they played was France who themselves lost 3 times in the tournament (including twice to Argentina).

As a kiwi, I think fa0019 makes a pretty fair assesment.

91 - Aus, one of the great teams.

95 - A lot of the team were unwell, But to paraphrase Wlad Klitchko after the Haye fight, once you cross the white line, you are ready to play.

99 - Again Aus were best team there. NZ were very tactically naieve, both in selection and performance.

03 - Eng best team at the time. NZ were out coached, out thought and out played again.

07 - SA fair winners, would have liked to see a replay of 95. NZ were unlucky with injuries and some calls. but did enough to win the game if they were smart enough. Richie McCaw's captaicy reminded me of Taine Randell in 99.

The worst thing about being a former winner supporter is putting up with the welsh bringing it up all the time

The pain of those previous World Cups won't go away Mowgli. Nor should it-it was used successfully as motivation for the last one.

Relief at winning a World Cup-it's funny how that was one of the main reactions. It does sound very arrogant though on our part as the other teams experienced sheer elation-I know our expectations mostly inspire us but at the biggest stage it became a hindrance. Hopefully we've found the way to turn that into something positive. I was jumping up and down screaming like an idiot in the Woolshed at fulltime though so was really glad that was my natural reaction instead of "Thank God that's over".

Cheers anyway Maes. Nice to know that we're not rubbing it in as every other team had the hurt this time.

Not nearly as thankful as you were to Wayne and Susie Biltong

In 03 I felt that we could have given England a run for their money in the final but didn't deserve to be there. For all the BS about Umaga not playing the semi and dropping Mehrts and Cullen, the bottom line is that year we were playing a reactive type of rugby-adapting to the opposition's play and feeding off mistakes. This coupled with our firepower and the opposition having an off day did result in giving SA and Aussie 50 point hidings away from home-not even England could do that-but when we came across a fired up Aussie side that outmuscled us, dictated the play and didn't give us any good ball well we had no answer. Spencer had a bad day and when he does that it infects the whole team.

99 the winner of the semi got the prize of getting thumped by Australia, who were the best side there. No complaints-as in 91 when again Aussie were the best.

Galted it would have been a hell of a final vs SA in 07. I'd have been there for one (yes I do think NZ would have clicked into gear and beaten the English well in the semi).

Its all rather simple.

Stop calling us cheats and chokers and we wont go on about being World Champions.

maestegmafia wrote:Over the last Twenty five years we heard little moaning about the Kiwis losing the crown they rightfully owned.

That made me laugh

That made you laugh?

@disneychilly - agreed, NZ v SA in the last 2 world cups (especially 2007) sounded pretty tasty but, unfortunately, just didn't happen.

Being humble in defeat is one of the most unsatisfying, unnatural and difficult emotions to show with sincerity. Doubt any of us are very good at it, no problem. Can understand all the tall poppy cutting AB knockers, it's only natural people want to see us flop. And the joy with which many reminded us of our failures was not fun, but we just have to suck it up, because we weren't good enough. It took a while but each successive failure, i think, taught us a good old fashioned lesson in humility. Anyways, mustn't grumble, we do ok outside WCs.

95 and 07 hurt the most. That's because we had a really good chance of winning. The other tournaments we only had a chance. But on no occasion did the other side not deserve to beat the ABs.

Now it'd be nice to win a RWC away from home. 2015 is nice and close to where I live so would love to pop over for the final. But we shall have to wait and see. Australia and SA look tough as usual, England will be a better team by then and at home and France are always an enigma.

That said, plenty of rugby before that and lots of trophies up for grabs. There never really is any let up. We greedy fans want it all. Unfortunately, as with any country, there are the people who let the side down and don't know how to suck it up and say we lost and the better team won.

Kia

You better add Wales to your list of potential winners else you may get a backlash from some upset posters.

They can beat anyone on their day!!!

A fair few days have passed between 1953 and the present though FA...

can't you give them just one win just to shut them up???

Then again... if they get a win they may constantly bring it up for the next 59 years... better keep on playing at 80% against them... should be enough

Well I just wrote another thread on that mate. I haven't seen Wales beat the ABs in my lifetime but of course they could this November or in years to come in a World Cup. But you tend to remember first the teams that have beat your team first. But they are in with a chance with the World Cup on their doorstep.

fa0019 wrote:can't you give them just one win just to shut them up???

Then again... if they get a win they may constantly bring it up for the next 59 years... better keep on playing at 80% against them... should be enough

Boom pop pow! Ouch, that hurt

Full Credit wrote:

biltongbek wrote:Then of course they must have been hugely thankful to my dear friend Bruce.

You still going on about Bryce Lawrence Biltong? You need to let it go for your own health and wellbeing, it can't be good for you.

Also, I have never in my whole life met another Australian named 'Bruce'.

Mate Suzy is still alive 17 years after the fact, I am only in year 1 of my suffering.

Goes to show how badly that bitter pill tasted of puke

Alright mate, I'll leave you alone with your pain then.

Full Credit wrote:Alright mate, I'll leave you alone with your pain then.

Pain is gone my friend, but we must never forget.

Just remember that when you play us this year in the 4N that you're mad at Bryce, not us.

Anyway I think the OP title should be changed to Former and Current World Champions. I like things kept up-to-date.

See Stephen Jones couldn't resist having a pop at the 2011 final in the Rugby World mag-he obviously felt it was long enough ago to continue his customary anti-NZ crusade. Without a hint of irony either considering NZ were on the opposite end in 07 and he jumped on that bandwagon with utter delight.

Side note why can't we make refs as good as our players?!

being Welsh does rugby 7s world cup count :-D

Full Credit wrote:Just remember that when you play us this year in the 4N that you're mad at Bryce, not us.

Sorry mate, according to law the only "safe" place to retaliate is between those white lines.

Disney if we had to choose between players and refs, I know which one I'd choose. Let the rest of the world lead the way in producing world class refs.

I suppose when you are always favourite, that complaceny is something to struggle with.

'99 Aus was the best team? '03 England was the best team? We didn't even play them in those tournaments. In '99 France played a superb half and we had no response. In '03 we froze under the pressure of a semi. But fortunately in '11 we defended brilliantly and are now world champs

You should hear how much the current 6 nations champions bang on about it.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:You should hear how much the current 6 nations champions bang on about it.

About what?

So Dally? We weren't good enough to face them in the final. I don't buy into the school of thought that you have to beat the ABs on the way to the cup despite us always being there or thereabouts.

In 03 Umaga got hurt but was fit for the semi. Mitchell didn't pick Cullen and Mehrts-Mehrts could've changed things a bit. In 99 Hart played three of the most devastating back four of all time out of position. I feel those times we definitely didn't help ourselves there and could have given ourselves a better chance. But who's to say the improvement that may have happened was enough to overcome the gaps between ourselves and the opposition on those days? Smith outplayed McCaw in that semi so we still may not have made any inroads.

Though in 99 we were soft. After the Froggies started their ball squeezing and biting shenanigans we should have laid one or two of them out.

For me winning last year healed a couple of earlier losses where we should have done better. With good reason NZ has a proud rugby record and i for one am lucky to have been born in this country.

I love watching the All Blacks. Love watching the way we play, the emphasis on a full team approach and scoring tries. NZ cant claim to be best at many things but with rugby weve got something to proud of. Its great for our kids and generation after generation of NZ kids have grown up with this team on their doorstop.
In fairness to fans of other sides here Ill never know what its like to support another team against us. It cant be nice at times but must be great when the wins come along, if ever.

In recent years it must be a testament to what Graham Henry has done for our sport having instilled the very highest of standards to our game and our young men...and women...playing the game. I think we tend to forget that our leadership at the top hasnt always been ideal. I think now we're in a pretty good place.

disneychilly wrote:So Dally? We weren't good enough to face them in the final. I don't buy into the school of thought that you have to beat the ABs on the way to the cup despite us always being there or thereabouts.

I was disagreeing with goneagain with that comment. He said we didn't win those tournaments because Aus, then Eng were the best in the world, and i was replying that that wasn't why we didn't win those cups because we didn't play them

No one can really argue that over the last 25 years NZ have been the the most consistent international team, but when it comes to world cups they have achieved precisely what they deserve - two.

In 91 and 99 the Aussies were the best team as was England in 03. NZ contested the final in 95 and lost. Only in 07 could you argue that they were the strongest team but they just didn't perform.

NZ has no more right to the WC than any other team. They were the inaugural champions and are the current champions - deservedly so. They may retain the cup in 2015 or lose it to a better team. Who knows.

Where's AWoP? Not in the sin bin is he

Correct offload, think most kiwis with half a brain acknowledge we've only deserved two so far because that's all we've won. Of course, like all other fans, we look for reasons why we didn't win the others, and we pin point certain things that may or may not have had an influence in each. Some reasons are dubious and don't reflect well on us, but hey, time has healed wounds and when we say some of these things it's tongue in cheek usually (eg Susie, ball grabbing, Barnes, etc).

Like you say, we have two WCs, and sit top even on the ladder of WCs won with SA/Oz. Happy with that. 2011 was a watershed moment in terms of WC tactics for the ABs. We finally did what we had to do rather than stubbornly sticking to running rugby and scoring tries. I havnt even taken the time to watch a replay of the latest final, not sure why, probably because it was not a great display of AB rugby (it was but it wasn't, if you know what I mean). But, we won, and I'll forever hold that team up on a pedestal (especially McCaw/Henry).

EBOP wrote:Where's AWoP? Not in the sin bin is he

Correct offload, think most kiwis with half a brain acknowledge we've only deserved two so far because that's all we've won. Of course, like all other fans, we look for reasons why we didn't win the others, and we pin point certain things that may or may not have had an influence in each. Some reasons are dubious and don't reflect well on us, but hey, time has healed wounds and when we say some of these things it's tongue in cheek usually (eg Susie, ball grabbing, Barnes, etc).

Like you say, we have two WCs, and sit top even on the ladder of WCs won with SA/Oz. Happy with that. 2011 was a watershed moment in terms of WC tactics for the ABs. We finally did what we had to do rather than stubbornly sticking to running rugby and scoring tries. I havnt even taken the time to watch a replay of the latest final, not sure why, probably because it was not a great display of AB rugby (it was but it wasn't, if you know what I mean). But, we won, and I'll forever hold that team up on a pedestal (especially McCaw/Henry).

Well EBOP sometime we all have the "big week" at working and can't always reply to all the thread. Plus I was get a bit obesssed and post too many comment and make some frustrated member with my bad grammars! But thank you for missing at me!!

My mind from my experiences with new zealand rugby fan is two things to share here. First one is that they expecting to win and so is not so much "joy and elation" on winning but normally game is finish and they just go off on the next thing and not spend the time savour the win too much and only make angry if they don't winning! Second thing is the culture still quite reservated in compare to like Latin culture or Mediteranean and they not go so crazy anyway unless they have so many too drink! so my mind is they think all is normal again in the world and we only hear about it next time they lose. Also there is some chance they win a lot more in the future so is not so much idea about need to make the most about it now, like some country who might not be so likely for winning again so soon.

Wise words mate.

One of the biggest differences in Kiwis, who whether or not current world Champions, and other nation is that they rarely remind you of their incredible achievements.

Like SA and Australia they have now won two RWCs, in between both successes they have pretty much continuously been the team to beat, the number one ranked or perceived best team in the World, thus a World cup win is solely ratification of their renown standing.

maestegmafia wrote:One of the biggest differences in Kiwis, who whether or not current world Champions, and other nation is that they rarely remind you of their incredible achievements.

Like SA and Australia they have now won two RWCs, in between both successes they have pretty much continuously been the team to beat, the number one ranked or perceived best team in the World, thus a World cup win is solely ratification of their renown standing.

Have you had your account hacked by AWOP?