Ma'a Nonu - the ultimate second five eigths?

Today I watch the Blues v Force and my mind is nobody in NZ should be so obsessing about where is going SBW.

Finally the commentators on Sky start to notice what I am talking about for some time which is about Ma'a Nonu distributing.

So SBW become famous for the offload where he take the line and make offloading in the tackle or get the hands past the line and make the short pass through the line. We can see in all blacks recent win that this make some good combinator with a running 10 like Aaron Cruden but starving wide outer players like Julean Savea who was made to look good by Smith in the first debut.

But there is something other option provide by Ma'a Nonu and his wide vision and decision making and amazing pass. Today in Blues v Force he open up many times the defense with lightening distributor. I imagine Nonu and Arron Smith make some amazing combinator like this with both fast long passing.

Nonu does this by arrive on the ball at pace and then make the choose to go to the line with power or make the wide pass. For most time he take the line and make two defenders crunch up to stop him. Then he waiting on the contracting defending line and when it happen he unleash the wide players with this accurate pass. Then when he does that the defending line next time spreading wide and make the gap and he run through it! Is some amazing solo manipulating the game and his decision process about do this is geninus to watch. I very much enjoy watching him spin this riddle on the opposition, and showing he is indeed some legendary brain understanding the game and not just some big and fast strike runner like a Manu Tuilagi or Jamie Robserts who both need to WATCH and LEARNING about this idea to get better. So is about positional play to get onto the line at speed, then decision making quickly and accuracy to the execution on the pass. Always puts it in the right place and seeming always make the good decision.

Now last small riddle is did he make this plan himself or is this the outcome of years in all blacks with such good coaching?

It was the right decision to rest Nonu for the Ireland series. He did himself no favours by going to Japan and then coming into a Super season without any break. I think SBW still has a lot of room for improvement as a player and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But Nonu in black is better than in a Hurricanes or Blues shirt. I'd like to see SBW go back to the bench against the big artillery and then have him start against Argentina along with a few other fringe players. I guess it depends on how big the squad is.

As for your last riddle AWOP, Nonu started off on the wing and then came into OC and IC. I'd like to think it's a combinator of himself, some helpful words put in his ear by players like Umaga and coaches and a lot of hard work. There's no doubt there was a definite shift from a player who just tried to bust the line like Tuilagi to someone who developed a long passing game and a short kicking game.

Yes Kiakahaaotearoa also there was some small point in my message that you find! in my worry about a player like Tuilagi who is in some lonley situation to play in the different "rugby culture" and maybe not get develop as well as he would in the other team where this style of playing is more customary and understanding better by the coach.

anotherworldofpain wrote:So SBW become famous for the offload where he take the line and make offloading in the tackle or get the hands past the line and make the short pass through the line. We can see in all blacks recent win that this make some good combinator with a running 10 like Aaron Cruden but starving wide outer players like Julean Savea

7 tries were scored by 'wide outer' players in the 3 games, and 2 by SBW himself. I think that proves this point to be completely invalid.

Watch again Jeffwinger! Look at starvated All Blacks who could not flanking Ireland in 2nd test and in 3rd test all pentration was through the middle and SBW play on 12 so not consideration to be wide outer player.

First game wide outer tries come through Smith make the transversal run and pass to bring into the game Julean Savea and was a tactic that was working and shut down by Ireland in second game!!

I am not saying a thing so stupid and prozaic as "Nonu will make 100% tries to the wingers and SBW make 100% tries to center" but I am talking about subtle dimension and reinforce some comments about what a great player he is DISTRIBUTOR!

Don't get so literally or you will always missing the point. I also say that Cruden/SBW work like a combinator and Carter/Nonu work like a combinator more successful because they complimenting the style.

Sorry it was 6 by wider players (I accredited A. Smiths T2 try to C. Smith) PLUS 2 by Williams. That's a total of 8 tries in 3 games from the back 5. Average of 2.67 per match. How many more do you want? I'd be loving those sort of numbers from an England team.

Jeffwinger
Looking at where the trys are scored is often not a very good indication where the line has been broken, or the line has been manipulated. In the first test against ireland Julian savea scored three wide laft hand side trys, however the break in the "D" line was at second five eigth.and who was at 2nd 5? SBW.

Nonu plays two styles one With Conrad Smith and one without Conrad smith. he knows that Smith will/can set up his wing on both the inside or the outsides, whereas tonight what he was trying to do was pull the fringe of the Force "d" line in,then spread wide ball fast. its something quite rare in a second five 8th who has migrated fom wing.

My point is some subtle Jeffwinger and about difference between structure around the wide attak and narrow. I don't think 2nd 5/8th tries count as wider players. To me that is narrow channelling. (sorry I edit this post now because Laurie make my point the same one too)

Yes all blacks score a lot of tries but in 3rd match the game was winning early by close attack back line structure around 10/12 and ruck and later coming the "icing" wider.

I don't "want more". I don't want anything really. But is observate that Nonu and SBW bring the contrast in styles through this and both effective! Is also some point about how to shut down Nonu influence is know about the wide pass and use Australian style "umbrella" to cut out the long pass or SA style intercept game with rushing line.

Don't know about you guys but I remember us discussing this on the old 606 (you probably wont know what that is AWOP).

It's nothing new he's had a bullet pass for a while now and it's one of his key attributes.

I could guess Yappy that 606v2 is v2 of the 606 so is not so much surprise.

Yes it is a obvious thing for some rugby experts like the posters here but is some relieving to see Ma'a get some credit and sensible things said on the commentary instead of always just silly comments and statements like:

"Mike Phillips is, alongside Will Genia, the best halfback in world rugby and Rhys Priestland is developing into one of the best first fives they have had since Jonathan Davies. Jamie Roberts is their equivalent of Ma'a Nonu and North may be the best wing to have come out of the Northern Hemisphere."

anotherworldofpain wrote: always just silly comments and statements like:

"Mike Phillips is, alongside Will Genia, the best halfback in world rugby and Rhys Priestland is developing into one of the best first fives they have had since Jonathan Davies. Jamie Roberts is their equivalent of Ma'a Nonu and North may be the best wing to have come out of the Northern Hemisphere."

And you recon you are not a wummer?

IAOB

Is a quote, ifand...

How do you get away with it?

Inflammatory and inciting are two of the words that come to mind.

IAOB

Nonu is coming back into things purely because of the break imposed on him as kia says. A smart non selection by the selectors.And its showing immediately. Best hes played all year.

Its just proving what a good position we're in with several positions in having two world class players in each position. Hooker, halfback, 10, 12 etc. Nonu will figure strongly in hansens plans and has him right where he wants him formwise at this time of the year.

Hardly true Hooker yes,Scrum half International class yes,world class not proven,10 definitely,12 NO only Nonu sBW is gone no established 12.DC can cover but not his best position.

How long you think they can go on "managing" Nonu by exclude from the team and expect him to responding?

Did he not miss out on 2007 RWC?

Didnt say proven Alan. Said world class. Of the 9s on display in all the tours only genia was better. Plus theres another waiting.
Good enough for me.
Is sbw confirmed?

Until it is we have two.
Plus near on five world class14/15s and a few knocking..

Other than 13, our depth, especially in the backs has not been better for a while.

Our problem is now getting the combinations and gameplan right.

I`m sure Nonu was made aware of the situation by the All Blacks management.Look at it from there point of view in 2011 despite the debacle with the Hurricanes.They kept faith with there players,that has been further acerbated by the poor performance of the Blues.Nonu going to Japan meaning he had`nt had a Break in 18 months mean`t he was rested.Further the AB management knew the full situation with SBW and decided to use him for the Irish tests with Ellison as a back up.Nonu is a big game player but seems like Weepu to be a player who is in cruisuing mode in Super rugby or that seems to be the perception I am getting from the Nz media.2007 RWC was a case of the traditional 5/8 system was in force and it is generally concededTHE best 12 inNz.
If not the World in Aron Mauger not being at least on the bench was a major cause in the AB`s premature exit.Time change tactical kicking 12`s are not in vogue currently in Nz.Nonu rates as World`s leading 12 and a fit Richard Kahui covering 12/13 will do me.The flash guys SBW/McAlister interested iin money first forget them.

Get the basics right first that`s up front props now excellent,hookers ok.Locks could be better Whitelock is probably as good a 5 now around,Romano at 4 ,Back ups Callum Clark,Retallick,Boric when fit,Eaton still useful,Donnelly a safe pair of hands.Loose forwards 7 `s no problem,8`s Read,Vito,Thomson,6 long term Brad Shields.For Now Ritchie could be the key playin left and right with Cane,Thomson or Todd.Luke Whitelock could be in the frame within a year but needs game time at the top.A lot of promising backs,BUT NO established starting 9`s Ellis,Weepu are both bench warmers,Smith ,Kerr-Barlow and Paranara have`nt done enough at the top level to prove anything yet.At some point Fruen is going to have have a run plus ranger sink or swim.I would be a lot happier if they had a least 2 game plans to work on.Ireland was a case where experience of setting up a drop goal won the match.A couple of years ago they would`nt have attempted it.Expecting the Ref to give you kickable Penalty chances puts the game in his hands not yours.Naievety that he can`t go a complete half without awarding your team one cost the AB`s 2007 and Boks 2011 big time.The expanded TMO is going to be the biggie in the future now you are REALLY going to get some arguments/LIKE should the TMO be a neutral TOO!!!.

Rangers one I thought should move to a more disciplined regime.Hes got immense talent but no structure or discipline to his game.

He needs a hammett or Joseph influence. Theres also too much Auckland in him.

I doubt think Hammet will go back to the 28 plus lock brigade of Eaton, Donnelly etc.He has Whitelock to support the newbies in and he knows he was wrong with Ali who s ego was too big for the program.

Kerr Barlow and particularly Perenara just need their turn.Perenara will likely end up as the top 9 in the end. Strongest half around the pack weve seen for a while.

anotherworldofpain wrote:How long you think they can go on "managing" Nonu by exclude from the team and expect him to responding?

Did he not miss out on 2007 RWC?

Good point, and if I remember rightly at the time Ted said he needed to go away and work on his distribution skills, well he did that didnt he.

Taylorman wrote:Rangers one I thought should move to a more disciplined regime.Hes got immense talent but no structure or discipline to his game.

He needs a hammett or Joseph influence. Theres also too much Auckland in him.

I doubt think Hammet will go back to the 28 plus lock brigade of Eaton, Donnelly etc.He has Whitelock to support the newbies in and he knows he was wrong with Ali who s ego was too big for the program.

Kerr Barlow and particularly Perenara just need their turn.Perenara will likely end up as the top 9 in the end. Strongest half around the pack weve seen for a while.

To be honest taylorman, I think Ranger would be beyond rescue of even a Hammett/Joseph combination, he really is a loose canon.

Yeah I was really talking last chance as perhaps in a more positive environment he might become more constructive. Certainly more time at the Blues will end him for good.

yappysnap wrote:Don't know about you guys but I remember us discussing this on the old 606 (you probably wont know what that is AWOP).

It's nothing new he's had a bullet pass for a while now and it's one of his key attributes.

That's it for me, his passes beat the man with pace and puts players into space. SBW's NRL lolly pop passing just shovels it on when he does so.

They are both fine players. Both have spent a little bit of time getting towards there best in the sport. Nonu had to learn how to be a distributor, SBW had to learn when to hold it, add a chip, push in a ruck etc.
Very lucky to have the options. I would love to see kahui have a chance at 12 and may be even Ellison.

Kahui could have be the best 13 the game ever see but he get the bad experience with injury.

Ellison look like more the business at 12 to me. I think with A. Smith/Ellison the all blacks will add frightening up the ante on the pace on the game.