Newport Gwent Dragons latest Welsh region to post financial losses (according to the Western Fail

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Newport Gwent Dragons are the latest Welsh rugby region to post worrying losses in their annual accounts.

Recently published accounts reveal the Dragons were nearly £2.4 million in the red in the year ending May 2011, with the region's auditor saying he is concerned about the future of the team.

The region, which is part owned by the Welsh Rugby Union, made a net loss of more than £270,000 during that period.

The independent auditor who examined the Dragons' accounts says they reveal "a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt about the company's ability to continue as a going concern".

The news comes just weeks after Cardiff Blues' accounts revealed losses of £.2.3 million for the year ending May last year, while the Ospreys faced a winding up order from HMRC over an unpaid tax bill in May, although the region insisted the issue was being dealt with amicably.

Meanwhile, Scarlets chief executive Mark Davies revealed details of a revival plan at Parc y Scarlets after their accounts showed a £1.8 million loss for the year ending June, 2011. The auditor of those accounts also warned the figures suggested there was "significant doubt over the company's ability to continue as a going concern".

All four Welsh regions have agreed a salary cap of £3.5 million from next season to stem the tide of financial losses, while a major review and consultation process between the regions and the WRU is still ongoing.

Dragons chief executive Chris Brown said of the accounts: "They are disappointing and they are losses again.

"We're not terribly happy with that but we have been working on that since then.

"We believe we can generate sufficient funds, together with the money we receive towards the players, to have a break even situation," he said.

"The key to what I'm trying to do is looking for a more sustainable future without such reliance on benefactors.

"It's of concern so far into a deep recession that rugby clubs and other sports clubs rely on benefactors to keep them going.

"It's a lot of money. I talked before about the new stand and it has been key in terms of getting hospitality and catering money coming into the business, and certainly we've been successful with that since the stand was completed," he told the BBC

Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/07/09/newport-gwent-dragons-latest-welsh-region-to-post-financial-losses-91466-31355110/#ixzz207aPHUHw



Don't know much about the Dragons finances, but considering the Fail wrote a similar (but even more gloomy) article about the Scarlets - which it alludes to with the comment about the Scarlets going bust. Despite the fact that there is no basis for those comments, then I imagine this article is similarily rubbish. I'm also not suprised that the Dragons are in the red when you consider they've just had a shiny new stand built, but since those finances (if accurate) were produced the Dragons have significantly decreased their wage bill.

But what does everyone else think of the above?

Cas, fair points from that angle bud. National team 1st. But, wouldnt you like to see your Region win anther PRO12. Or given the backing - a HC?

And do you really want to continually see the present exodus of Wales' best players, going abroad for the French and English to enjoy?

If that started happening to the Irish Provinces, there would be fighting in the streets.

I dont get it. I just dont get it.

Gibbo - wouldn't listen too much to the exodus stuff in the press, it's senior/close to retiring age players leaving. Most if not all of the important young talent is staying put, as are some of the old heads like Adam Jones

And I'm not agreeing with Cas btw, I think we need 4 regions, if only so all of our young talent get's a platform to perform on, it's working pretty well at the moment (talent wise if not finance wise )

rugbydreamer wrote:And I'm not agreeing with Cas btw, I think we need 4 regions, if only so all of our young talent get's a platform to perform on, it's working pretty well at the moment (talent wise if not finance wise )

I know you love Scarlets, Dreamer and what they have started to do, is a model for the rest imo. Producing their own young talent. Its admirable, as is the Scarlets style of play. Good for Wales too.

But, if they cant afford to keep them down on the Farm when they hit their peak...

Lee Byrne, Mike Phillips, James Hook, Gethin Jenkins, Aled Brew, Luke Charteris and Huw Bennet. That's more than a trickle. And with the 3.5 mill salary cap kicking in, it will only increase.

I really do think it's a cause for concern in Welsh rugby.

And I am not crowing from an Irish POV either. I wrote an article a while back, stating it was inevitable there too, in the not too distant future. Got blasted for it by the Paddies... but hey.
The only thing that's holding the Irish players at home, is the way they are handled, with regard to their playing-time. And of course - the tax-incentives. Plus loyalty with a few.

But that will be severely tested, by double/triple salaries and a villa in the South of France. Id do it. Wouldnt you?
Luke Fitzgerald looks like he's leaving. He's in his prime. The IRFU wont meet his demands. Who's next? Sexton & Heaslip for 2/3 years, I reckon. We'll see.

BTW, I hate it. I dont want it for either of our countries. Our best players should be at home, where their public can see em play live.
This is where I disagree with Cas. Although his point is valid. In a business sense.

Lee Byrne, James Hook, Aled Brew, Luke Charteris and Huw Bennet - none of them are first choice and all have more than capable replacements playing back in Wales.

I don't think it's a concern at all.

Ospreys and Scarlets' academies are churning out the players, and the Blues' and Dragons are starting to work now (the centre in the Wales U20's team is from the Dragons, can't for the life of me remember his name but he looks like he's going to be brilliant)

I'm much happier with how things are in Wales where our older players are leaving to make room for the youngsters to come through. I think it's something that Ireland struggles from massively - the older players hanging around and stunting the development of the youngsters.

Sure we might lose the odd one or two younger player, but at the moment, with how the age grade academies are set up, I don't think it's a problem. Players like John Davies, Rhys Webb, Liam Williams etc are all opting to stay at home.

Marketing is a big problem with the regions, get our arses in gear on that front and the crowds will start to come. Well that and actually get a balance with how much game time our stars get at the regions. The regions don't see enough of them at the moment and that has to change.

But yeah, players moving to France isn't a problem for us.

Good argument.

I still think its a growing and worrying soccer-type trend. But your point about Irish teams, holding on to players, who are past their international sell-by date. And preventing the growth of so much young talent, is a really good one. Close to my heart.

I'd be worried if our youngsters were going Gibbo, but they aren't.

Cuthbert was being offered crazy money in France, but he stayed.

Foxy had similar offers, but again, he's opted to stay.

If they stay in Wales until they are 28/29 then go abroad, that's more than fine with me. Otherwise if we keep a hold of them, where the hell are we going to play all our other young players? You keep a hold of the older ones, then the younger ones will go looking further afield for playing opportunities I would think, or worse they don't get the chance to prove themselves until it's too late. 25 is too old now to be given a proper chance, you need to go through the learning processes at 21/22 for me.

I think the Welsh regions are going well in that regards. Scarlets I think might actually have gone too far (I think our oldest back in the entire squad for next season is 27!) and the lack of experience could really really hurt us, a balance is needed in a teams makeup, but I would much rather we lean in the main, towards younger players. They need the chance to play and improve.

Dragons I think are going along similar lines for next season. Play local young players that you get to see develop, it's what the crowds want to see.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/17122300

rugbydreamer wrote:I'd be worried if our youngsters were going Gibbo, but they aren't.

Cuthbert was being offered crazy money in France, but he stayed.

Foxy had similar offers, but again, he's opted to stay.

If they stay in Wales until they are 28/29 then go abroad, that's more than fine with me. Otherwise if we keep a hold of them, where the hell are we going to play all our other young players? You keep a hold of the older ones, then the younger ones will go looking further afield for playing opportunities I would think, or worse they don't get the chance to prove themselves until it's too late. 25 is too old now to be given a proper chance, you need to go through the learning processes at 21/22 for me.

I think the Welsh regions are going well in that regards. Scarlets I think might actually have gone too far (I think our oldest back in the entire squad for next season is 27!) and the lack of experience could really really hurt us, a balance is needed in a teams makeup, but I would much rather we lean in the main, towards younger players. They need the chance to play and improve.

Dragons I think are going along similar lines for next season. Play local young players that you get to see develop, it's what the crowds want to see.

+1

The balance is key. Older and newbie mix. I agree.

And?

The players going are old, we've got more than able replacements back in Wales

And that article was also before the likes of Cuthbert and Foxy opted to stay

I could be proven to be very wrong in this, as only time will tell, but I honestly can't see us losing our younger stars.

Old? Old!? They are only in their very early 30's.

Kids! Harumph.

ha, you know what I mean, old for a rugby player

The centre is Jack Dixon.

Dragons do have a few relative youngsters in a few positions

Sam Parry
Nathan Buck
Rob Sidoli
Toby Faletau
Lewis Robling
Adam Hughes
Tom Prydie

That's 6 pretty certain starters. Add to that players like Dixon, Hallam Amos, Steffan Jones, Dan Evans (who isn't that old) and a few of the other youngsters and we do have some talented players on our books (though of course we didn't produce all of them). I think we are starting to get it right, as players like Buck etc have been exposed now.

Good news about our season tickets today. They're up quite a bit on where we were this time last year. That report seems a load of Poopie too.

all these articles about regional finance generally are Rev! It's the summer and they are running out of stories is all.

And Dixon! Yes! Thank you, that was really starting to bug me.

Yeah they are. The trouble with them anyway, is it's up to May 11 so not really a fair reflection. I know we are "in the red", but the "debt" is dropping.

Roll on a few weeks when the friendlies start and silly season in the press etc can stop.

Hey they still have the scarlets as being £5.5m in debt (last years figures) when none of it is a bank debt anyway. It's owed to Carmarthenshire CC, or to our benefactors, and is already much less than what they are quoting. But hey, that news wont "sell" now will it?

Risca Rev wrote:Yeah they are. The trouble with them anyway, is it's up to May 11 so not really a fair reflection. I know we are "in the red", but the "debt" is dropping.

Roll on a few weeks when the friendlies start and silly season in the press etc can stop.

Positive vibes man. That's the way Rev. Feck de meeja.

Make it so.

Morgannwg wrote:

dragon999 wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:They (dragons) recently made cutbacks in the hospitality area, so they are definitely in the red. Not sure how extreme though. Also, all their new signings seem cheap.

Why would the Dragons cut back in the hospitality area? The new Bisley stand & the associated debt was built to expand the match & non matchday experience - Please explain your comment & preferably your source?

Because the Dragons are a business that needed to reduce outgoings (like everyone else). I work there. The guys who were running the hospitality were let go (apparently under-qualified for the job aswell). The job was given to the kitchen manager, who now oversees it all. They don't have much going on in the stand during the summer as far as I know, with the rugby season and rugby presentations finished. There will probably be a few wedding dinners here and there.

You are talking about the bar manager that was head hunted from the Scarlets? He was let go some time ago i understand it as things didn't work out as expected,he brought some bar staff with him on a few match days?

It was within the last 3 months, I don't remember the exact date. They did run the hospitality, not just the bar. So that includes the bar, business suite and hospitality boxes in and out of match days. And no.

Naturally they're making a loss if they've just built a new stand. The stand might generate more profits in the future.