Which is disliked more London Welsh or Leicester or Saracens or Ospreys?

This thread is made in Scarletspiderman and Peterseabiscuit wheeler's honour.

I am not going to vote. I'll be very surprised if London Welsh win this!

Thoughts?

It'll be a close run thing between Saracens and Oxford Welsh I think.

Leicester and Ospreys have got history between them...

I don't think people 'hate' Leicester Tigers, I think any negative opinion is based more or less on begrudging respect, Tigers are, after all, still the most successful club side in English rugby, even present form (or lack of it) will have a job denting the stats.

I don't think the same begrudging respect can be given to the likes of Saracens, for a whole host of reasons (not least because the brand of rugby they 'play' is - or can be - hugely negative).

Ospreys and their Galacticos... ahhh

Oxford Welsh are just pariahs. And rightly so.

Bushy - I don't think anyone hates any rugby team. After all we are all on here because we are rugby fans. There are rivalries, and dislikes. However even in the most awful teams world there area some things that make ou think, well if they sorted this out they could be ok.

I have had a soft spot for Saries since they dumped us out to the EDF (when it was still a decent competition) by losing to us win a losing bonus point and four try bonus point at Stradey Park. I think they went on to cripple Gavin Henson and dump them out of the HEC the same season. So it think they deserve all of our respect of that.

Bushys I never said hate. I said dislike more.

Hate's a strong word. Too strong. I am abstaining myself but interesting to see the thoughts of others.

I agree about Leicester. One thing I have noticed about them - they've cut out the dirty stuff/cheating. Also they score the most amount of tries - racking up the bonus points. Still one thing against them is their constant moaning about call ups etc.

Saracens are a frustating side, for the fans too. They are boring but don't need to be. They should look at Leicester,Quins and Leinster to see that you don't need to rely on defence and kicking. Saracens can attack but choose not to.

Saracens haven't won enough or contributed enough to the England squad to be given respect. Hopefully they will in time but they've got to earn it.

Ospreys are a strange one. On one hand I respect them for what they have done in the Pro12, also I like the fact we have a 100% record vs them in the HC.

On the other hand I feel they inflate their chances. Particularly in the HC.

I went for Oxford Welsh. I don't really hate or dislike anyone, life's way too short for such nonsense, i just thought i'd stir the pot a bit.

This is the closest to trolling i get

AlastairW you didn't make this article though!

Why did you go for Oxford Welsh?

It's interesting to see people's thought processes.

Scarletspiderman cripple Gavin Henson? I haven't heard that story!

I think Leinster did the crippling of Henson when they played Saracens in the HC in Dublin. That was a painful loss but hilarious seeing Henson getting smashed.

One legged Richard Hill outplaying the Ospreys backrow virtually on his own in a HC quarter final (2008) surely has to win some plaudits?

Good Saracens have caught up with Leicester in the most unpopular stakes.

Beshocked - wasn't against you boys that Henson picked up the first of his consistant injuries? HEC semi-final (or EDF)?

Probably It wasn't done on purpose or maybe it was.

beshocked wrote:Probably It wasn't done on purpose or maybe it was.

IF it was deliberate that was very decent of you to sign him later on as an apology

I voted for Sarries because the thread was started by a beshocked. I voted for London Welsh in the other one because Spiderman had started it.

HammerofThunor wrote:I voted for Sarries because the thread was started by a beshocked. I voted for London Welsh in the other one because Spiderman had started it.

Fair enough.

beshocked wrote:AlastairW ... Why did you go for Oxford Welsh?

As i said just to stir the pot

I am terribly blinkered when it comes to ... well, non-Harlequins sides. I am indifferent about most other clubs, my main concern is 'am i going to see a belting game of rugby'? which i know most of the clubs in the AP will provide - including Saracens Beshocked - love or hate their 'brand' of rugby, they won 10-11, SF's 11-12 - they're doing something right. I guess the same could be said of Tigers. The final was edge of your seat stuff; a rubber match of the highest stakes if you look across the season. Good. Ruddy. Football.

I only went for Oxford Welsh because they seem to be the Panto bad guys at the moment, and people from all over England & Wales appear to have pretty strong opinions about them which has led to discussions over the last few weeks have had me laughing into my cuppa a few times, but honestly i'm not that bothered at all. I am a pretty simple creature!

beshocked wrote:Bushys I never said hate. I said dislike more.

Hate's a strong word. Too strong. I am abstaining myself but interesting to see the thoughts of others.

I agree about Leicester. One thing I have noticed about them - they've cut out the dirty stuff/cheating. Also they score the most amount of tries - racking up the bonus points. Still one thing against them is their constant moaning about call ups etc.

Saracens are a frustating side, for the fans too. They are boring but don't need to be. They should look at Leicester,Quins and Leinster to see that you don't need to rely on defence and kicking. Saracens can attack but choose not to.

Saracens haven't won enough or contributed enough to the England squad to be given respect. Hopefully they will in time but they've got to earn it.

I'm not entirely sure thats true, but Leicester do contribute a good proportion of the England 1st XV and I am sure Richard Cockerill, whilst rightly proud of his players' achievements, begrudges losing so many players to the EPS. Thats the price of success I suppose. What he did moan about and I agree with was that last season, not only did they lose a load of men to he EPS but they were crippled with injuries too - in total I think 23 players were missing for one reason or another.

Injuries are bad luck and Tigers certainly had their fair share of it early on last year. I doubt many coaches would endure the loss of so many 1st choice players without having something to say about it.

I don't think that Cockerill's moaning is as constant as some would try to have you believe.

Bushy - maybe the management and the team tehmselves don't moan as much, but it does tend to be the pet excuse of the fans (on here anyway). And sometimes it is hard to separate the fans and the team.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bushy - maybe the management and the team tehmselves don't moan as much, but it does tend to be the pet excuse of the fans (on here anyway). And sometimes it is hard to separate the fans and the team.

Not in my brief experience of this Forum it isn't.

There is little to dislike about Tigers in my opinion, as has been pointed out, they play total rugby and contribute well to the EPS. One of the few clubs with a sustainable business plan, their own ground and a regular near capacity crowd.

Any dislike must logically therefore be borne from jealousy.

I doubt they worry too much what people think, their house is very much in order. Supporters of clubs with more to worry about would do better commenting on problems closer to home than worrying about what fans of other, more successful clubs are saying.

Bushys I was thinking more of quite a few of the fans moaning about call ups and injuries but of course Cockerill does too.

You only need to look on the Leicester rugby network website where there they posted a post world cup league table because they were in denial.

Even some of the more knowledgeable and reasonable Leicester fans bang on about injuries and call ups.

You don't hear Wasps fans moaning about their injuries which were far worse than those of Leicester. Rees and Thompson had to permanently retire.

Hearing Leicester fans you would think they are the only ones affected by call ups and injuries!

They don't complain when it works in their favour either!

Callups and injuries can be a good thing - they give an opportunity to other players.

I just feel that excuses are made - you won but so and so wasn't playing...etc.

Beshocked,

'You don't hear Wasps fans moaning about their injuries which were far worse than those of Leicester. Rees and Thompson had to permanently retire.'

You can also add Dan Ward Smith and Joe Worsley.....not that I'm moaning!

Bushys wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bushy - maybe the management and the team tehmselves don't moan as much, but it does tend to be the pet excuse of the fans (on here anyway). And sometimes it is hard to separate the fans and the team.

Not in my brief experience of this Forum it isn't.

There is little to dislike about Tigers in my opinion, as has been pointed out, they play total rugby and contribute well to the EPS. One of the few clubs with a sustainable business plan, their own ground and a regular near capacity crowd.

Any dislike must logically therefore be borne from jealousy.

I doubt they worry too much what people think, their house is very much in order. Supporters of clubs with more to worry about would do better commenting on problems closer to home than worrying about what fans of other, more successful clubs are saying.

Evidently you haven't come across any of Portnoy's post in your brief time here! It's not just him though.

Did you claim to be a Wasps fan? It seems your heart lies more with Leicester.

Jealousy? Nope. I will support Leicester in Europe as I do every English club. I think Leicester have done very well. I think they run a very smart operation -make clever signings, have made themselves sustainable, being consistently at the top of English rugby.

You seemed to be under the flawed logic that any criticism means jealousy.

Is criticism not allowed? I feel that because Leicester have been at the top so long they are unaccustomed to losing and when they do they make excuses. No team likes losing and Leicester are no exception. Also being at the top consistently has made some of the fans haughty.

It looks like members of the Tigers forum arent the only ones in denial it would seem.

beshocked wrote:

Bushys wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bushy - maybe the management and the team tehmselves don't moan as much, but it does tend to be the pet excuse of the fans (on here anyway). And sometimes it is hard to separate the fans and the team.

Not in my brief experience of this Forum it isn't.

There is little to dislike about Tigers in my opinion, as has been pointed out, they play total rugby and contribute well to the EPS. One of the few clubs with a sustainable business plan, their own ground and a regular near capacity crowd.

Any dislike must logically therefore be borne from jealousy.

I doubt they worry too much what people think, their house is very much in order. Supporters of clubs with more to worry about would do better commenting on problems closer to home than worrying about what fans of other, more successful clubs are saying.

Evidently you haven't come across any of Portnoy's post in your brief time here! It's not just him though.

Did you claim to be a Wasps fan? It seems your heart lies more with Leicester.
Jealousy? Nope. I will support Leicester in Europe as I do every English club. I think Leicester have done very well. I think they run a very smart operation -make clever signings, have made themselves sustainable, being consistently at the top of English rugby.

You seemed to be under the flawed logic that any criticism means jealousy.

Is criticism not allowed? I feel that because Leicester have been at the top so long they are unaccustomed to losing and when they do they make excuses. No team likes losing and Leicester are no exception. Also being at the top consistently has made some of the fans haughty.

My heart is with the clubs who are sustainable and play good rugby. As a Saracens supporter i'd be much more worried about my own teams' shortcomings if I were you.

Bushys again you try to deflect from Leicester. Sounds like you are in denial too. Leicester are far from perfect.

Any criticism is shouted down. For all I know you could be yet another alias of Equo Troiano.

In denial about what?

I know more of Saracen's strengths and weaknesses than most.

You sound like one of the haughty lot that I find distasteful.

Not everyone is part of the old boys club.

London Welsh are like the young upstarts who managed to blag themselves into the exclusive Aviva Premiership old boys club.

The members of the old boys club generally look at anyone new with suspicion and disdain.

Other than WUMs the only stuff I remember about Tigers' injuries was, "we're not doing great but we have a lot of injuries so don't panic yet". I got that from most of the fans on here and the management. There were a handful of "we would have thrashed you if we had a full squad" but they were few and fair between (all Equo Troiano?).

Of course you can't give resons without it being accused of making excusses. I've seen Cockerill say "we were well beaten. We've got some players missing but that's no excuse" and he get's labelled a whiner making excuses.

Any manager/coach that says "we were beaten, oh well" without looking at why, was it we're simply not good enough, was it a little luck, was it missing players, was it any particular area, coaching style, playing style, do we need to change things a little or a lot or just keep cracking on? etc, etc, should be sacked.

HammerofThunor would you call Portnoy a WUM? He goes on and on about call ups all the time. Even Sam has had his say. If only we had had Deacon and Crane.... etc.etc.

Also as I said you see it on the Leicester rugby network. They had a whole thread dedicated to it (post world cup table).


I am not saying all Tigers fans are whingers, just saying that there is a feeling that a contingent of their fans use injuries and call ups as excuses.

Certainly much larger than that of other clubs. I know that in regards to call ups they are affected more but as said before you don't hear Wasps fans bemoaning their huge injury list.

It's all hypothetical - we lost because this player was missing etc. etc. It should be about what you can do with what's available.

beshocked wrote:Bushys again you try to deflect from Leicester. Sounds like you are in denial too. Leicester are far from perfect.

Any criticism is shouted down. For all I know you could be yet another alias of Equo Troiano.

In denial about what?

I know more of Saracen's strengths and weaknesses than most.

You sound like one of the haughty lot that I find distasteful.
Not everyone is part of the old boys club.

Well, I would say that 'it takes one to know one', but heaven knows where we'd end up, you might blow a gasket I think. It does seem that you're having difficulty seeing both sides of the coin, thats your perogative.

Of course, you've never bemoaned the loss of key players through injury or call-up?

I find your accusations a little hypocrytical and not a little hysterical.

I feel that the way LW bludgeoned their way into the Jeff was, to me at least, morally reprehensible... so I voted Tigers.

Well come on, what did you expect?

PJHolybloke wrote:I feel that the way LW bludgeoned their way into the Jeff was, to me at least, morally reprehensible... so I voted Tigers.

Well come on, what did you expect?

Its quite possible they'll pay with their hides, so don't worry about them.

Yes, I'd call Portnoy a WUM. Either that or a one off, not representive.

The Tigers were hammered during the World Cup and were hit with injuries. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with mentioning that (especially if a lot of other people have a go).

HammerofThunor wrote:Yes, I'd call Portnoy a WUM. Either that or a one off, not representive.

The Tigers were hammered during the World Cup and were hit with injuries. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with mentioning that (especially if a lot of other people have a go).

And you probably don't see Wasps fans moaning about injuries because we contributed precious little to the EPS ;-)

Injuries were all we had lol

Oh Jeez,
I think we should be a little more open-minded when we consider people a WUM. I think Portnoy is a good bloke. I don't always agree with him, but most of that is focused on how we grow, expand, or modernise the game. Supporters of teams are supposed to be, at least partially, one-eyed.

Looky folks, I am a Saints fan, and I have to deal regularly with the Evil Empire just up the M1, (or the A 508 and A6 if you want to take the back roads). I have a lot of respect for the Lei.....Leice....Leicest - oh merde, I can't used THAT name. I think it is OK for teams to mention injuries. We all have them.

But if any supporters of Leic... Leice....THEM.....come into my offcie with a broken arm, well let's just say I might forget the anesthesia (hee, hee, hee).

doctor_grey wrote:Oh Jeez,
I think we should be a little more open-minded when we consider people a WUM. I think Portnoy is a good bloke. I don't always agree with him, but most of that is focused on how we grow, expand, or modernise the game. Supporters of teams are supposed to be, at least partially, one-eyed.

Looky folks, I am a Saints fan, and I have to deal regularly with the Evil Empire just up the M1, (or the A 508 and A6 if you want to take the back roads). I have a lot of respect for the Lei.....Leice....Leicest - oh merde, I can't used THAT name. I think it is OK for teams to mention injuries. We all have them.

But if any supporters of Leic... Leice....THEM.....come into my offcie with a broken arm, well let's just say I might forget the anesthesia (hee, hee, hee).

Indeed, the way some are behaving, you'd think that Tigers have the monopoly on evil..

Bushy - maybe it is not all Leicester fans, maybe it is just the loudest, that complain about call up, injuries etc. (Portnoy, Equo, Formerly Sam, PSW tend to shape my opinion of Tigers fans as they are the ones I deal with most regularly). After all you tend to get an opinion of a group of people from what their loudest of their group are like. For example most Welsh fans come across as total tools during the 6Ns because the ones who post most prolific over the 6Ns are more tool-like than the general welsh rugby fans on here.


Thinking about Equo what happened to him I ain't seen him on here for an age.

Before moving to the UK I didn't know too much about the various clubs - I'd heard of 'Quins because when 4 clubs in my home town merged they adopted the name and quartered jerseys (in the colours of the 4 clubs), I'd heard of Leicester because of the letters instead of numbers on jerseys, and I'd heard of the Ospreys because Justin Marshall played for them.

When I joined BBC 606 I pretty quickly formed a dislike for both the Ospreys and Leicester, purely because of some of the respective fans. However over the years I've met enough good fans of both teams, (and enough annoying fans of others ) that I can't say I particularly dislike any European club side.

And since Marlborough merged with (boo hiss) Nelson Bays to form Tasman back home, I'm left with just the Jafas to dislike.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Thinking about Equo what happened to him I ain't seen him on here for an age.

Hopefully having a break (with any luck, a permanent one)

Feel like i've missed something. Why are London Welsh disliked so much?

Bathite wrote:Feel like i've missed something. Why are London Welsh disliked so much?

By the looks of it they ain't.

Bathite wrote:Feel like i've missed something. Why are London Welsh disliked so much?

When it really comes down to it its pretty obvious isnt it?

Bushys wrote:

I don't think people 'hate' Leicester Tigers.

Up until Saracens turned foriegn Tigers were usually the target of jealousy/ire from English fans. The Wlesh have always hated Tigers for being english, and then all the crud with Ospreys turned it nasty. For the most part thats died down now, and people are even getting over the hand of Back.
The other big stick Tigers used to get beaten with was that they played negative rugby and had ruined the entire universe. Fortunately Munster took that crown , and Tigers have gone on to become a very expansive quick attacking team under Cockerill, against expectation.

However judging by the poll theres quite a few Ospreys fans who still havent quite gotten over the various HC shenanigans, despite them having won. The level of chip carrying is truely outstanding.

And I reckon the only reason people have voted for Tigers is because its fashionable to do so, while the votes for Saracens have been made with hand on heart.

Bushys wrote:And I reckon the only reason people have voted for Tigers is because its fashionable to do so, while the votes for Saracens have been made with hand on heart.

Since when has it been fashionable to dislike the Tigers? Any slightly anti-tigers comment gets put down with such force on here it will never be fashionable to dislike the Tigers.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:The Wlesh have always hated Tigers for being english.

I quite liked the Tigers (and Ebbw Vale or Caerphyli one of them) as a kid because they had the Letters as opposed to numbers on their shirts, and because the Agregate (I think) logo on their shirt looked a bit like the G for Gladiators.

Bushys wrote:

beshocked wrote:Bushys again you try to deflect from Leicester. Sounds like you are in denial too. Leicester are far from perfect.

Any criticism is shouted down. For all I know you could be yet another alias of Equo Troiano.

In denial about what?

I know more of Saracen's strengths and weaknesses than most.

You sound like one of the haughty lot that I find distasteful.
Not everyone is part of the old boys club.

Well, I would say that 'it takes one to know one', but heaven knows where we'd end up, you might blow a gasket I think. It does seem that you're having difficulty seeing both sides of the coin, thats your perogative.

Of course, you've never bemoaned the loss of key players through injury or call-up?

I find your accusations a little hypocrytical and not a little hysterical.

I could say exactly the same of you. For all I know you are Equo Troiano under another alias pretending to be a Wasps fan.

For a supposed Wasps fan you are awfully defensive of Leicester Tigers........

Missing players is part and parcel of the game. It's unfortunate but the objective is to make do with who you have.

By the way I haven't actually voted and I don't intend to.

Just interested to get some thoughts on how people tick and why they dislike certain clubs.

Bushys wrote:And I reckon the only reason people have voted for Tigers is because its fashionable to do so, while the votes for Saracens have been made with hand on heart.

#
To be fair on here its probably mostly portnoys fault

So apart from London Welsh having 50% of their name being irritating, there is actually no other reason? Do the Welsh as a whole not like them either?

Bushys wrote:And I reckon the only reason people have voted for Tigers is because its fashionable to do so, while the votes for Saracens have been made with hand on heart.

No guessing necessary where your vote went, eh?

Bathite wrote:So apart from London Welsh having 50% of their name being irritating, there is actually no other reason? Do the Welsh as a whole not like them either?

I don't understand either which is why I am trying to get to the crux of people's thought processes.

My perception - why people might dislike London Welsh

London Welsh took a long time to fight the court battle to get into the Aviva Premiership - reducing the time for both them and Newcastle to prepare for next season.

They were party poopers because they came 4th I believe in the Championship but got promoted instead of Bristol due to play off system

London Welsh have signed Gavin Henson - not a popular move as he's a controversial character.

London Welsh are unsustainable and do not play in London.

They are Welsh.

They are a new face.

I personally don't dislike them though not pleased the Tango man is on board.

Bathite wrote:So apart from London Welsh having 50% of their name being irritating, there is actually no other reason? Do the Welsh as a whole not like them either?

The welsh love them so much they invested money in them.

I voted for the Ospreys, because everybody hates the winners and always back the underdogs, so as a proud Welshman, if the Ospreys win the poll it must mean that they are doing something right, a bit like liverpool in the eightees and man utd now. People always hate a side that is winning all the time.

beshocked wrote:I don't understand either which is why I am trying to get to the crux of people's thought processes.

My perception - why people might dislike London Welsh..........

My thoughts on your points:
"London Welsh took a long time to fight the court battle to get into the Aviva Premiership - reducing the time for both them and Newcastle to prepare for next season."

• They fought a cynical legal battle to overturn rules which all clubs/teams had played under for years. They used a sliver of EU business law to break through for their own particular benefit, which does nothing for Rugby in the bigger picture. The high principles they espoused were only verbalised once they saw the opportunity for promotion. They held the Premiership and Newcastle Falcons hostage to their demands.

"They were party poopers because they came 4th I believe in the Championship but got promoted instead of Bristol due to play off system"

• I don't think anyone holds them accountable or responsible for being in position to benefit from the rather bizarre playoff system. Not their system.

"London Welsh have signed Gavin Henson - not a popular move as he's a controversial character."

• He was signed after the fact. I personally think it was a good signing considering they are virtually out of time to bring in better caliber players. In the big picture, though, I don't think anyone really cares about Henson anymore, except his mum. Personally,I hope he becomes relevent again.

"London Welsh are unsustainable and do not play in London."

• The fact they had to scramble to find a place to play and its about 50-60 miles from 'home' is really an outcome of the legal wrangling. It does point out they clearly had no plans for promotion until it virtually fell in their lap. Many of us will probably insist upon calling the Oxford Welsh. This probably has no bearing on peoples opinion, but could be another pin in the voodoo doll.

"They are Welsh."

• Please. No one cares about that, at least I certainly expect and hope not. If anything, it adds a little spice to things, which is a good thing.

"They are a new face."

• New faces are good. It is just that there are so few clubs which have the necessities for promotion in the professional game of today.

To sum up, I believe it all comes back to the approach they took for promotion. I always liked London Welsh. A mate of mine played wing for them about 10-12 years ago. And before that I always enjoyed visiting Old Deer Park, one of the great places to watch Rugby.

The London Welsh thing could be a bit like the Lib Dems in the coalition - Throwing away any kind of sustainable future in return for a short time in the limelight.