Rory Mcilroy

After falling under pressure on the last day of the Masters do you think Rory can step back up and win a major? or do you think the pressures just all going to get to him again?

As I said on 606 I believe that Rory may enjoy the win but he does not seem to enjoy the winning like those of Tiger woods and Phil Mickelson's ilk do.

Considering the way in which he blasted his way to winning at Quail Hollow I'd say you were pretty wide of the mark there Mac.

SR

My point is that you can see Tiger revel in the heat of competition. You could see Rory Just wanted to be holing out on 18. Tiger on the other hand just loves being in the middle of competition and the more pressure the better.

I'd have to agree with Mac here, qual hollow rory seemed to be having a good round and won as a result much like when he won the DDC at the emirates course. But 2 wins in over a hundred starts as a pro is poor record for someone who apparently is a born winner and a future golfing legend!

Great champions relish the battle and the intensity contention brings you only have to look at most multiple major winners to see proof of that and its the same thru the decade, Palmer, Player, Nicklaus Watson, Faldo, Woods these guys wanted to win no matter what and no matter how ugly and that's what Rory needs to find that fire and hunger to never give up

How many players play well when they're expected to win, like McIlroy was at the start of Sunday? Not many. There's a difference between finishing strongly to snatch the title like Schwartzel did, and having to go through the whole 18 holes trying to stay focused, like McIlroy had to. If he does go on to win a Major, I bet it'll be from 1-2 shots behind on the final day.

Unfortunately Rory has a British mentality that does not have that killer instinct and single mindedness to thrive in the heat of battle. It is a common characteristic of more established cultures like those found in Europe and Britain seems to display it to our very best. Whereas newer cultures like Australia, South Africa and the US have a mentality to win at all costs, Britain would rather win in the right manner and we would all rather love to see someone display the occasional genius rather than just win. This is why Faldo is not overly liked in the UK yet we have always loved people like Botham, Gazza and George Best - achievement-wise Faldo was far far better. This is supported further by looking at their sports stars - people like Lance Armstrong, Ricky Ponting and even Tiger are always respected for their achievements but their sole focus on winning is just not endearing.

I would much rather see the emotion of someone like Gazza not winning a football match but putting all of his heart into it than a clinical and expected win without emotion...

I think some golfers can handle the pressure of being the front-runner and others find it more difficult. I did wonder why McIlroy took the driver as often as he did in that final round - the 3-wood might have been the better option especially as he was pumped up with adrenaline anyway.

Sharri - agree with you to a point about emotion - but would say that we have produced popular and hugely successful sports stars - Daley Thompson comes to mind. Steve Davis and Faldo weren't that popular when they were winning, but I wouldn't say they were devoid of emotion.

Not completely devoid of emotion but not endearing either. I would still rather watch Ronny O'Sullivan who shows some character and personality in his play than, say, Stephen Hendry. They are both very successful but in very different ways.

I personally love Faldo but very much understand why he has done better post-playing in america than here. Again, I could point to Seve as an equally successful European that went about it in a very different way and is far far more popular...

The real explanation for McIlroy's collapse... he should've gone to specsavers:

http://www.europeantour.com/mm/photo/tournament/tournaments/13/55/69/135569%5fm16.jpg

I thought that was Wayne Campbell at first.

i do of course mean Garth Algar.

Well I'm asuming that the much heralded meeting between Chubby and Rory has now taken place, but would love to know the outcome. I've read much about what Chubby had to say about Sunday's events and got the impression that he wasn't happy about the way Rory capitulated.

Comments like 'he's only 21' are one thing but others like 'he doesn't play enough' and 'he's only won 2 events' are more telling. Chubby has all sorts of bonuses tied into his player contracts which guarantess ISM and the player a lot of money. Although Chubby is unhappy at Rory, he's still got 3 major winners in his stable, but Rory would have been a cash cow to ISM due to his age, personality and teenage girl appeal. So some home truths will have been told to the gifted one, which may or may not see the start of a break-up.

Chubby's mood was plain for all to see on Sunday, he was seen with his arms around Charl and the biggest smile on his face, but abscent when Rory appeared on the 18th. 30-hours together on planes to Malaysia and Rory's clubs get lost enroute just about sums the situation up

"Rory may enjoy the win but he does not seem to enjoy the winning "

I think this is actually a very astute comment. It is exactly how Rory looked. Obvioulsy i can't read his mind but his demeanor was of a guy who wanted to win for sure but was not enjoying getting it done!
I've felt like that - not in a golfing context and clearly not on the same scale - and i did what Rory did. I played like i was going to go at everything and either blow everyone else away or perform terribly, either way the pressure would be off.
Maybe that explains why Rory took the driver so much and cut the tree line so apparently close on the 10th. Either post a record score and increase the lead or blow it, either way the pressure is off!

sharrison01

Can't believe you don't think Botham was all about winning. Admittedly he did go a bit wayward once or twice but he wanted to win. End of story. Saw him get his nose mashed by an Andy Roberts (if I remember right) bouncer for Somerset early in his career and all he did is spit blood and then hit a ton.


As for McIlroy, I think he has the talent and if he improves his putting then it's all down to the bit between his ears. Won't know until he puts himself in contention on Day 4 of a Major again.

I don't think you can categorise the capitulation along nationalistic boundaries....Norman's (Aussie) collapse which Faldo (British) capitalised on as an obvious example to flame that particular thought. Also Dustin Johnson at the U.S. Open & Watney at the PGA (both American) with similar Sunday unravellings.

Both of them and Rory will be contending Majors for years to come. Also if collapsing is a British thing, what about McDowell? Yes his swing may have gone walkabout at the moment but mentally there's one golfer I don't think you'd ever see have a Sunday unravel. Wouldn't be surprised if he and Rory haven't already had a long conversation about Sunday.

This young lad has class, at just 22 years of age, he put himself in with a good chance of winning a major, very few golfers has done that at his age (Tiger being the accept ion).

You can not put an old head on young shoulders, and that was Rorys downfall, I believe he was still trying to attack the course, instead off playing to par, and let the others attack the course.

I believe he will have learned an awful lot about his golf swing and frame of mind when under pressure, and will be ready for it the next time it happens


His caddy did not seem to do a lot to help Rory in his situation on Sunday, could be a good time to change caddy

navyblueshorts wrote:sharrison01

Can't believe you don't think Botham was all about winning. Admittedly he did go a bit wayward once or twice but he wanted to win. End of story. Saw him get his nose mashed by an Andy Roberts (if I remember right) bouncer for Somerset early in his career and all he did is spit blood and then hit a ton.


As for McIlroy, I think he has the talent and if he improves his putting then it's all down to the bit between his ears. Won't know until he puts himself in contention on Day 4 of a Major again.

Maybe I'm a touch young to remember and of course all professional sportsmen have to want to win. Botham to me always seemed to do it with a bit of style as much as winning. Maybe Flintoff would be a better example - watching his interviews just after the 2005 ashes win made him feel like he could be your mate and was more exciting and interesting than just a sportsman. Glenn McGrath was the opposite - ruthlessly talented but would you really want to sit and have a beer with him? Shane Warne on the other hand is great because as much as he was a winner, he did it with style and showed his emotion and this makes him more endearing.

JAS wrote:I don't think you can categorise the capitulation along nationalistic boundaries....Norman's (Aussie) collapse which Faldo (British) capitalised on as an obvious example to flame that particular thought. Also Dustin Johnson at the U.S. Open & Watney at the PGA (both American) with similar Sunday unravellings.

Both of them and Rory will be contending Majors for years to come. Also if collapsing is a British thing, what about McDowell? Yes his swing may have gone walkabout at the moment but mentally there's one golfer I don't think you'd ever see have a Sunday unravel. Wouldn't be surprised if he and Rory haven't already had a long conversation about Sunday.

But then why is Faldo not a national hero in Britain? There are very few sports that we can claim to have been the best in the world at but Faldo was truly up there with the greats and was a deserving major winner and world number 1 yet the British public just do not take to him, hence him plying his trade in the US. There are of course exceptions to this idea but, in general, sportsman from countries like South Africa, Australia and the US are more able to step up when they have to. My explanation of this is that they place more emphasis on winning and less on the manner in which it is won, which is more representative of a more established culture's way of thinking.

I think he can.He seems to have the ability and if he can learn to keep his cool(he rushed a lot of putts in his final round) he can certainly become a brilliant golfer.

sharrison01 wrote:

JAS wrote:I don't think you can categorise the capitulation along nationalistic boundaries....Norman's (Aussie) collapse which Faldo (British) capitalised on as an obvious example to flame that particular thought. Also Dustin Johnson at the U.S. Open & Watney at the PGA (both American) with similar Sunday unravellings.

Both of them and Rory will be contending Majors for years to come. Also if collapsing is a British thing, what about McDowell? Yes his swing may have gone walkabout at the moment but mentally there's one golfer I don't think you'd ever see have a Sunday unravel. Wouldn't be surprised if he and Rory haven't already had a long conversation about Sunday.

But then why is Faldo not a national hero in Britain? There are very few sports that we can claim to have been the best in the world at but Faldo was truly up there with the greats and was a deserving major winner and world number 1 yet the British public just do not take to him, hence him plying his trade in the US. There are of course exceptions to this idea but, in general, sportsman from countries like South Africa, Australia and the US are more able to step up when they have to. My explanation of this is that they place more emphasis on winning and less on the manner in which it is won, which is more representative of a more established culture's way of thinking.

Think you're over analysing it SH and bringing in outdated assumptions about the British sense of needing to win with style, I don't think Rory or any other of the current crop would care much about the manner of the win as long as they won.

I have to be honest on the Faldo thing....much as I admire what he achieved, I cannot warm to the man himself and I'm not sure why but in an attempt to I would offer the following. What I would say is that he won 6 majors, and Monty won none and you can never take that away from Faldo. As a Ryder Cup Captain however he lost and Monty won. Had the years been reversed I think Faldo would have lost in Wales and Monty would have won in Valhalla. Both very different characters with very different driven to win mentalities. Monty seems to take people with him whereas Faldo is far too much of an individual to galvanise a team. Maybe therefore it's the sheer individualism of the guy that makes him hard to warm to.

http://www.europeantour.com/mm/photo/tournament/tournaments/13/55/69/135569%5fm16.jpg

Maybe he should've ned, but he makes up fo it with the watch. HMM Audemars Piguet Offshore Royal Oak...sorry drifted off there for a while. You don't think that strange pose he is holding has anything to do with his sponsers do you, you see the same thing in F1.

Did the Airline find his clubs? If not, now might be a good time to change!

That picture ...

He's a cross between Austin Powers and Michale Caine!

JAS, I agree that the current crop of course would not care how they won but my point was more to do with the inherent mentality of winning and how being overly focused on just winning is not appreciated by the British/European public.

I would even suggest that Westwood is now a bit less endearing than he was a few years ago. I remember about 10 years ago him being interviewed at the old Sun City $1m comp in South Africa and he was talking about how his family was over and how they were enjoying a bit of a holiday. Now all you get from him is how his golf game is progressing and what areas he is working on which distances him from the average man. He is, however, far more likely to now win a major but then I suppose very few can marry success with popularity.

Pleased for Rory's bounce back in Malaysia a solid -11 after his second round today. Early days but at the moment he's tied in first place, but plenty still out there. The news channels showed a few great irons that were just tap-ins for him.

Chubby has been quoted as saying that Rory's putting stats are actually quite good, and he suffers like Jack used to, because he hits the green to within 15-feet regular. When the 15-footer doesn't drop too many comments about missed putts? OK Chubby you have it your way mate, Rory has too many misreads and misses by inches too many times. Good talking point though, and nice to see Chubby compare him to Jack?

Lets hope he goes onto win & he can get to Specsavers for some new specs.

so, to all the nay-sayers, what's your verdict on him putting together a 69 and a 64 over the past 2 days? remember, that's with 12 hours jetlag, steaming hot conditions (one of the caddies was sporting a soaked white towel over his head), oh, and the supposed career-ending collapse you all seem so happy to crow about. i think many of you would just love to see him fail so you can trot out the "i told you so" line.

personally, i think he's got character in bags. he's 21 for goodness sake. yes, tiger had won a major by that point. how many other multiple major winners of the past 20 years (or more) had?

i hope that your view from up there in the peanut gallery is a good one. it certainly seems a long way away, as i can't hear you so well today...

graeme - I don't think anyone doubts his ability to string 2 or even 3 good rounds together. It's putting 4 together that seems to be the sticking point.

It's no good pointing out how well he is doing after two rounds - review his performance after 4 rounds and then see if you still have a point

*Davie throws peanuts from the gallery at graeme

Davie wrote:
*Davie throws peanuts from the gallery at graeme

Why? Is Graeme allergic to peanuts?

I don't think anybody on this site has mentioned that Rory isn't a superb talent. Most have said quite rightly that he cannot produce four rounds of solid golf and always seems to throw a 75 in somewhere. This is why all the talent in the world hasn't produced more than 2 tour victories.

I think you'll find that we all want him to show everyone what he's capable of doing.

Greame

I think it was a small minority that thought the masters would ruin mcilroy, most people showed concern that on the biggest stages his putting is just no good enough.

The Malaysian open is hardly going to test this theory.

It is great to see him bounce back straight away ball striking wise and his putting must have been pretty good to shoot a 64. Thankfully he hasn't done a Murray.

davie, what happened to him on sunday would have many people requiring long-term mental care! he's come back with a good round and a blinding round.

i'll admit that he seems to have a bit of a mental block at the moment that took horrific shape on sunday but i find it galling that so many on here seem so quick to talk the guy down.

i'd say he's a damn sight tougher than many would have us believe and perhaps those 4 rounds at augusta, coming in that order, could, just could provide the mental 'snap' that he's required. let's face it, i can't think of anything, in golfing terms, much worse than what happened to him last sunday and sometimes you need to hit rock bottom to gain a sense of perspective.

i guess my real point is that i find the zeal and at times relish with which some critize him on this forum bizarre. are we so impatient? do we feel personally let down? i don't understand it. tiger is/ was a phenomenon. since he appeared, he's become the benchmark that the inhabitants of peanut galleries the world over will compare talented golfers to and if they don't measure up, step for step, out comes the 1kg bag of kp dry roasted...

Thankfully Murray's done a Murray...

sharrison01 wrote:Thankfully Murray's done a Murray...

by a "murray" I meant playing badly for three months following a near miss in a grand slam, is that not what happened to murray?

Or are you saying you wanted to see that happen to him?

mac, you've got the world #1 and current US PGA champion, the current Open champion and the current Masters champion. that's not a bad field at the top ;-)

and i'd say any competition following his championship last week is a test.

i'd also say that given the quixotic nature of the greens, that's not a bad test of his putting and mental fortitude either.

Well we know how much mcilroy likes perfect greens, well 3 times in 4 anyway.

Did not know that Kaymer was in the field. Someone is paying very large appearance fee's.

Certainly did not want to see that happen to Rory. Am glad it happened to Murray though...

I'm also glad he's doing well in KL. I wouldn't even have recovered from the jet lag by now, let alone everything else midget_mac has gone through recently.

Was also musing earlier today over a slight contortion of the oft-repeated commentator phrase - "Rors at Augusta during the back 9 on Sunday"...

no blow up round this week, just the level par third round of 72. just about every winner on the euro or us tour will have a round in the low 70s each week, ie level or just 1 or 2 under.

it was a 6 on the 12th today which did for him and he did very well to knock in 3 birdies after that to put himself right in contention on the 18th tee. he hit a huge drive (c310yds carry) and just caught the bank at the top of a bunker and got held up in the thick stuff. on a 634yd hole, that's going to make the required birdie a real challenge.

manassero's some deal though! cool as a cucumber and turns 18 in a couple of days i believe.

No you are right - not a blow up, but as you said, the 72 was the round that did the damage this week. It's the par or worse round out of four that always seems to cost him.

You'll notice that you have to go down to 9th place to find the next player to have a 72 or worse in their 4 rounds.

It's a very respectable result especially so soon after The Masters but to turn some of these great displays into wins he has to cut out the one not-so-good round

davie, i didn't say that the 72 did the damage. apols if that's the way it reads. put it this way, manassero's worst round was a 71, so a shot separated them in that respect.

i believe mcilroy had a double bogey during the re-started 3rd round and then another as i mentioned on the 12th in the final round (a shonky short putt again turned it from bogey into double). you could begin to pick apart every hole and shot gained or dropped but i think he put in a very good performance all round.

i think you'd have got excellent odds on mcilroy being in contention this week and he was, all the way. keep it up laddy!

Maybe when Rory holes out with an approach shot for eagle, he'll win. That's what's happened in the last two weekends!

I'm really pleased that Rory came back so soon and with some stunning golf, so hats off to him. I also noted that JPF was looking at more putts this week, so a bit of a change there.

So he was unlucky and his 72 3rd round score caught him out, but at least he did put together 4 solid rounds including 3 good sub-par rounds, so improvements.

But for someone with all the talent in the world, he has still only managed 2 tour wins since he came on the scene a few years ago. Mannasero who broke through last year has now won 2 tour events as a 17-year old. Yes hes got talent, but nowhere near the talent of Rory, but he's racking up the wins already as a kid. So whats the difference between them, I would suggest that Mannasero has more control between the ears.

I think the biggest difference between the two is temperament, Matteo seems confident that he can go about his business, much like Kaymer has been like since appearing on the ET. I think this confidence stems from the fact that like Kaymer, the boy holes out well. Rory like a number of other very talented players (Casey, Westwood, F. Molinari for instance) does not hole out well under pressure and the birdies dry up too. His birdie putt at 18 yesterday was really poor, complete rush of blood to the head stuff and makes the Laird effort at the Barclays last year and Westwoods at the Open in 09 look like very professional efforts. Rory needs to find some Zen, or he will forever be the sort of player that needs tournaments handed to him or sneak in from miles behind when he is on a roll like at Quail Hollow last year.

Doc - Both players have two wins so far (and one of Rory's was a top quality field on the USPGA) so I find it difficult to see how you can say that Manny is "racking up the wins" and Rory isn't. Both have lots of talent and I look forward to watching both of them in the coming years. And happy birthday to Manny for tomorrow - then no-one will be able to say "he's only 17" any more.

I like MM's temperament as well Redrage, i think not being from British aisle and be listening to too many shower of praise and people hanging majors on prospects' neck before they have won one will benefit MM [ala Kaymer].

it does make me wonder what proportion of players use a sports psychologist. particularly in golf with so much of it being between the ears.