Hungarian GP Thread - will contain spoilers

[Fernando]

Just one week after Fernando Alonso’s superb victory at the German Grand Prix, the Ferrari driver will resume his quest to land a third Formula One Drivers’ World Championship title at the Hungaroring, the scene of his first grand prix victory.

The Hungarian Grand Prix has been on the F1 calendar since 1986 and the tight and twisting confines of the track present teams with a challenge similar to that encountered in Monaco – how to maximise high-downforce performance.

With 14 corners and just one real straight, teams will be aiming for high levels of aerodynamic grip but will also be looking for optimum levels of mechanical grip. Hence, Pirelli will bring its Supersoft and Soft tyres to Hungary. However, finding good grip here isn’t easy. The circuit is used infrequently and as such grip levels are always low at the start of the weekend. The evolving nature of the track makes finding the perfect set-up difficult.

The weather also plays its part. Hungary can be punishingly hot in midsummer and the high temperatures mean tyre degradation and wear rates can be a factor. The Supersoft tyre will extract maximum grip but it could the durability of the Soft that decides the outcome.

As mentioned, the Hungaroring holds good memories for Fernando Alonso, but a number of title contenders will be hoping to colour the Ferrari driver’s perception of the circuit. In the title race, Alonso may be 34 points ahead of Red Bull Racing’s Mark Webber and a further 10 clear of defending champion Sebastian Vettel but a single mistake through any of the circuit’s snaking turns could see that lead eroded in an instant.

For the championship leader it will simply be a case of recapturing past glories and if he can do that he will go into F1’s traditional post-Hungary break with a commanding championship lead. It should be a fascinating race.

Length of lap
4.381km
Lap record
1:19.071
(Michael Schumacher,
Ferrari, 2004)
Start line/finish line offset 0.040km
Total number of race laps

70
Total race distance
306.630km
Pitlane speed limits
60km/h during practice,

100km/h during qualifying and race


CHANGES TO THE CIRCUIT SINCE 2010


►The track has been resurfaced around Turn 14.



Fast Facts
► The Hungaroring has been a feature of the F1 calendar since 1986, meaning that this will be the 27th edition of the race.
► Michael Schumacher has won the race more times than any other driver, with four wins to his credit, one ahead of Ayrton Senna.
► Despite the lack of overtaking opportunities at the Hungaroring, pole position does not guarantee a win,at least not lately. Since 2005 there’s been just one winner from pole (Lewis Hamilton in 2007). Conversely, in the five years before the ’05 race, the race was won from pole four times (the only exception was 2000 when Mika Hakkinen won from third on the grid).
► Jenson Button’s win from 14th on the grid in the rain-hit 2006 race represents the biggest gap between starting position and the top of the podium. Button is followed in that regard by compatriot Nigel Mansell, who scored victory from 12th on the grid in 1989. The Ferrari driver powered his way through the field in the race after complaining of being hindered by traffic in qualifying.
► The wet race of 2006 also saw Pedro de la Rosa record the only podium finish of his career to date. Racing for McLaren in place of Juan Pablo Montoya, the Spaniard drove a well-judged race from fourth on the grid to finish second. His next best finish is fifth, a placing he’s managed four times so far (Italy ’01, Bahrain ’05, and Turkey and China in 2006).
► The Hungaroring was the scene of Fernando Alonso’s first grand prix win, in 2003. At the time, it made the Spaniard F1’s youngest winner, at 22 years and 26 days, some 78 days younger than previous record holder Bruce McLaren. The Australian driver’s record had stood for 43 years. Alonso’s reign would last just two: Sebastian Vettel smashed it with victory in Italy in 2008, aged just 21 years and 73 days.
► Former Toro Rosso driver Jaime Alguersuari also set a record in 2009 when making his F1 debut here he became the youngest ever F1 race driver at just 19 years and 125 days.
► The Hungaroring was the scene of Thierry Boutsen’s final F1 win, although it wasn’t exactly memorable for thrills and spills. Boutsen grabbed the only pole of his career and despite having a slower car managed to make it as wide as possible and kept Ayrton Senna at bay for 77 laps. Boutsen’s previous wins had come in Canada and Australia in 1989.
► Caterham’s Heikki Kovalainen claimed his first (and to date only) F1 win at the Hungaroring in 2008. The Finn, driving for McLaren, started second behind team-mate Lewis Hamilton. However, both were eclipsed at the start by Ferrari’s Felipe Massa. Hamilton slotted into second but fell back after suffering a puncture. Massa looked on course for a comfortable win, but three laps from home his engine expired, handing Kovalainen a lead he didn’t let go.


Weather Forecast: http://www.latestmotorsportweather.com/racing-circuits/europe/hungary/hungaroring-circuit.html

Source: Fia

[Critical_mass]

oooh sunday looks (at the moment at least) to be changeable conditions :-/ cat > throw > pigeons

[Guest]

First things first, we need a dry qualifying and then McLaren can showcase their true pace in normal conditions with these updates. If Hamilton can be on the front row or 3rd then I will be happy, regardless of Sunday's weather. Second half of the season now and going into the break, Hamilton needs to start performing and closing this gap.......it's getting worrying now.

[dyrewolfe]

First things first, we need a dry qualifying and then McLaren can showcase their true pace in normal conditions with these updates. If Hamilton can be on the front row or 3rd then I will be happy, regardless of Sunday's weather. Second half of the season now and going into the break, Hamilton needs to start performing and closing this gap.......it's getting worrying now.

Its worth bearing in mind that while McLaren have been fairly consistent in qualifying (barring the odd lapse) they have rarely looked as good in race trim.

The other thing to consider is that qualifying strategy is almost as important as race strategy now, with many teams using the softest available tyres to set banzai laps late on. While Vettel and Alonso are usually the ones who set the bar, Mercedes and Lotus have often got their drivers well up the grid and Maldonado has qualified well on a few occasions.

McLaren have quite often shown an inability to adapt to what the other teams are doing, so in the end it may not matter how fast the car is, or how well Lewis and Jenson drive...or indeed what the weather is like.

[Guest]

McLaren have quite often shown an inability to adapt to what the other teams are doing, so in the end it may not matter how fast the car is, or how well Lewis and Jenson drive...or indeed what the weather is like.

That's very negative dyrewolfe, I'm looking for positivity

I understand what your saying though regarding McLaren.

[liverbnz]

Surprised that so few pole setters have won this GP. I've always thought the Hungaroring was a deathbed for overtakes or is this not the case any more?

[Guest]

I'm getting slightly bored of Hamilton always being fastest in practice, I actually hate when Hamilton is fastest in practice. Always leads to the same thing......huge disappointment at the end of Q3.

[liverbnz]

You'll be pleased to see that Hamilton is top of time charts for P2 then And is most likely to stay there given it's raining.

[Critical_mass]

Yup finished top with Kimi and Bruno jsut behind.

WEbber was down in 14th. Didnt look happy at all. Rumours are saying the the RB having to go back to an old engine MAP is affecting them.. though Vettel was in 8th so not sure how bad it is... if at all.

[Guest]

Webber looked very downbeat today, McNish says that this mapping sitation has clearly affected RB, but by how much is still unclear. Hamilton fastest again, McLaren confident and there's smiles all round. Too good to be true......

[Critical_mass]

well as all Mclaren fans know, wait until end of Q3 and still then its probably best to wait until the chequered flag

[liverbnz]

Webber was pretty downbeat last week as well. He was looking off the pace in quali until it started raining and he looked slow again in the race altough I think his KERS may not have been working for most if not all of Sunday.

Hard to read too much into practice though, especially when Senna and Massa are 3rd and 4th.

[SteveG]

Red Bull are notorious for sandbagging. P3 should reveal alot more ahead of quali.

However for me its looking more and more like Ferrari now have the quickest car - and have had for at least the last couple of races. Hamilton couldnt get near Alonso in Germany even on fresh tyres unless he chose not to unlap himself which I doubt. At worst they're on par with Mclaren in the dry and are faster when wet - and they know it despite all the cautious rhetoric downplaying their progress.

[liverbnz]

Red Bull are notorious for sandbagging. P3 should reveal alot more ahead of quali.

Looks like you were right. Webber quickest in P3. Lewis 2nd with Vettel 3rd.

[SteveG]

Pit to Lewis: "You're purple everywhere and P1 by half a second.
Lewis to pit (in a resigning tone): "I got held up guys"
Priceless lol.

[GSC]

Hamilton blowing everyone away in all 3 sessions. Looking very much as though mechanical error or a pit man sausage up is the only way he'll lose.

[SteveG]

Red Bull are notorious for sandbagging. P3 should reveal alot more ahead of quali.

Looks like you were right. Webber quickest in P3. Lewis 2nd with Vettel 3rd.

Called it wrong with Ferrari. Was surprised because Hungary needs downforce and they had plenty at Valencia so was very surprised to see them burning options in Q1. Still think they have the best all-rounder though.

[nathan]

Red Bull are notorious for sandbagging. P3 should reveal alot more ahead of quali.

However for me its looking more and more like Ferrari now have the quickest car - and have had for at least the last couple of races. Hamilton couldnt get near Alonso in Germany even on fresh tyres unless he chose not to unlap himself which I doubt. At worst they're on par with Mclaren in the dry and are faster when wet - and they know it despite all the cautious rhetoric downplaying their progress.

Your assessment was fairly off!

...which i'm happy to see!

[SteveG]

Was simply going by what I saw in the last couple of races. Also Mclaren probably got alot of valuable dry data (for once) from Germany.

I'm also very happy to be wrong. Now please lets just see Hamilton convert tomorrow.

[Guest]

Sensational driving from Hamilton, just in another league. He must convert tomorrow, no excuses. If he loses because of a McLaren pit error then I would love to be a fly on the wall in the negotiation room next week.

Slight worries for tomorrow are Lotus' race pace, Hamilton's grid starts, threat of changeable conditions and a McLaren pit foul up. I'm actually hoping for a boring race (sorry) and a simple but resounding domination from Hamilton. 25 points are crucial now going into this break and a DNF for Alonso would be very pleasing on the eye.

Mercedes simply embarrasing.

[harryspiv]

It's looking almost certain to rain for the GP today so i guess it will be another lottery.

Hope Hamilton runs away with it and a DNF for alonso wouldnt hurt.

[dyrewolfe]

Latest update is that although rain is forecast, it shouldn't come before the end of the race...good news for McLaren.

Fantastic quali performance from Hamilton. I genuinely expected Vettel or Alonso to pip him after the chequered flag. Also surprised at how much quicker he was than the rest. Looks as though Button is still struggling a bit but he ought to have a decent race from 4th.

History shows Hungary is a good circuit for McLaren...lets hope it is this year. Lets hope also that Grosjean can avoid any mistakes at the start!

[Critical_mass]

excellent well controlled race by lewis, managed to look after the tyres (i hate that saying). Kimi looked really strong and lewis managed to hold him off.

Renault are looking real dangerous, also good race from Grosjean. Ferrari looked no where. How things change...

Roll on Spa...

[The Special Juan]

Ha, a very Vettel-esque race from Hamilton. Qualified on pole and then proceeded to get a gap at the start and win the race. Well done

[Belgarion of Riva]

Was a dull and boring race but I was very impressed with the Lotuses and Hamilton.

If Lotus can get their super drs to work, Spa could be very interesting.

Mercedes have gone backwards.

[monty junior]

Was there an overtake in the whole race?

[Belgarion of Riva]

Can't remember any apart from the start of the race

[nathan]

Maldonado was up to his usual tricks though :p

[Fernando]

Maldonado was up to his usual tricks though :p

It's barely any different to what Kimi did out the pitlane to Romain tbh and what Kobayashi does at the hairpin in Japan , Was harsh in my books tbh

[GSC]

A pretty vital win for Hamilton and McLaren going into the break. Still have the best car in the dry, but conspired to beat themselves on occasions.

[nathan]

Maldonado was up to his usual tricks though :p

It's barely any different to what Kimi did out the pitlane to Romain tbh and what Kobayashi does at the hairpin in Japan , Was harsh in my books tbh

It's very different as they didn't make contact.

[Belgarion of Riva]

Maldonado has previous and will always be judged harshly

[Fernando]

Maldonado was up to his usual tricks though :p

It's barely any different to what Kimi did out the pitlane to Romain tbh and what Kobayashi does at the hairpin in Japan , Was harsh in my books tbh

It's very different as they didn't make contact.

Fair but then explain why it's any different to my 2nd point

[Trench Foot]

First things first, glad to see Lewis winning again - but where was Jenson? Anonymous for most of the race...

Apart from that, nobody seems to have mentioned the Schumacher incident at the start - what was going on with the lights?

Also, it was said on several occasions that Alonso had 'extended' his lead of the driver's championship - how could that possibly be when everybody who finished in front of him would have made ground on him surely?

Lastly, can we replace the Hungarian GP with watching paint dry? That at least, would be more interesting...

[Critical_mass]

I like the Hungaroring, its certainly better that other races imo.

I think they meant he'd extended his lead over webber who's his closest rival, then vettel and lewis.

[Guest]

It was a fantastic result, not only for Lewis and McLaren but for the championship. Alonso's recent form was more than worrying to say the least and he still has a big gap to his rivals even after this weekend. Hamilton dominated the weekend but Lotus look a real threat now and with their new f-duct rear wing system coming into effect at Spa and Monza they could be dangerous, especially with an improved qualifying performance.

Although McLaren won, it wasn't all positives. Race pace is still an issue and on the strategic side of things, they still are appaling. I spoke about the McLaren engineers on the radio and how embarrasing was it when they told Button to go to plan B to which he replied, 'are you sure?' to which they stuttered and replied, 'oh, oh, okay Jenson, plan A still'......shocking. Changing Button to a three stop completely fouled up JB's and the fact they bought him out in dirty air was simply pathetic. I think that foul up basically led them to no other option than to keeping LH on a two stop, which thankfully worked.

As for Lotus, absolutely brilliant. A team not afraid to mix with the big three and they have two fantastic drivers who seem very hungry. Thankgod Kimi returned, a true out and out racer who's second stint was sublimely quick. I must say that Bruno Senna drove superbly again and is consistantly outperforming Pastor in race situations.

It's becoming quite clear that the races are less exciting now and that the teams and drivers are understanding the tyre, which was inevitable at some point. It's quite unbelievable how important pit stops are this season and I'm just glad McLaren seem to have sorted this issue out.....just!

Look forward to Spa and the rain......C'mon Lewis, I believe!

[dyrewolfe]

First things first, glad to see Lewis winning again - but where was Jenson? Anonymous for most of the race...

Are you kidding? He overtook Vettel shortly after the start and was a comfortable 3rd for over half the race, until the team decided to 3-stop him, which cost him 3 places, after he got stuck behind Senna. He didn't have the pace to stick with Hamilton and Grosjean but looked in decent shape otherwise.

Apart from that, nobody seems to have mentioned the Schumacher incident at the start - what was going on with the lights?

No idea. I heard he switched his engine off for some reason.

Also, it was said on several occasions that Alonso had 'extended' his lead of the driver's championship - how could that possibly be when everybody who finished in front of him would have made ground on him surely?

Mark Webber is still second in the drivers' championship. Alonso finished ahead of Webber, hence he extended his lead. Hamilton, Raikkonen and Grosjean were all far enough behind not to change the top of the standings, despite their podium finishes.

Lastly, can we replace the Hungarian GP with watching paint dry? That at least, would be more interesting...

Perhaps this is one for Herman Tilke. Maybe he can put in some super-long straights and hairpins to create more overtaking zones? I agree though that overtaking in the pit lane isn't quite as exciting as doing it on track.

[Fernando]

The restart was because the doofus parked in the wrong grid spot then turn his engine off because he saw a red light which is what they used to do instead of just going around again

[SteveG]

Hardly a classic but don't care so long as Hami won. Once again he proved he can manage his tyres - under pressure all race on one of the most tyre demanding tracks (even Sauber struggled). Perfect and fully deserved.

Good to see Senna (yes Pastor 'even Senna') ahead of his teamate who continues with his hobby of collecting F1 drivers. Unfortunately its real ones and not toys. This time it seemed to be a bit of snap oversteer as he squeezed di Resta but still....

And speaking of toys how about Vettel - after the last two races has he got any left in his pram? Seb you've had the best car by a zillion miles in the last couple of seasons and have often been 10 seconds up the road just pointing and squirting. Welcome back to the pack mate where everyone is..err..racing.

Mercedes were disappointing - despite Shumi's nightmare. Think he got the penalty for speeding up the pit lane BEFORE the race had even started. Looks like they may now be looking at next years car.

The Hulk seems to have the upper hand at Force India - no mean feat against di Resta. Very hard done by at Williams and now they have a good car he would be faster than Mal without the crashes. Money talks in F1 so can understand it but still the old phrase "marry in haste repent at leisure' springs to mind.

The final word goes to Lotus - a great two/three from a team who must surely now have the fastest car on soft tyres at least. And all this before they bolt on their new F-duct!! Normally I would take Hami to continue his fightback with back to back wins at Spa/Monza which suit the grunt of the Mclaren engine but Lotus could change all that. But why have Mclaren who like to pioneer the way not been developing some sort of super DRS+ ? They simply HAVE to bring something to Spa as only wins are now good enough for Hami. But going by their pace of development so far I fear they've got nothing much up their sleeve.

In fact I might pop down to the bookies before Spa and see what the odds are for Kimi Raikkonen WDC 2012. Who'd have thought it!!

[Fernando]

In fact I might pop down to the bookies before Spa and see what the odds are for Kimi Raikkonen WDC 2012. Who'd have thought it!!

16/1 ive already stuck £10 on it everything from now except maybe spa/brazil is warm weather suited to the lotus

[Guest]

If that f-duct/rear wing system is effective and dramatically improves the qualifying position of the Lotus then sticking some notes on Kimi may pay off but I would still say it will come down to Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel. I agree about Hulkenberg outperforming Di Resta, maybe the media attention about a possibility of a move to Mercedes or Ferrari may have affected the Scot recently. Take away that win from Maldonado in Barcelona and his season has been appaling, actually embarrasing. Apparently it was an alteration to a brake duct and changing the flow of air at the front of the Williams which has given Senna more confidence and speed as the tyres are gaining temperature more quickly. I heard Ferrari have not taken the option up of extending Massa's contract so Perez should make the move and therefore open up a slot at Sauber in 2013 for Ferrari's other driver J Bianchi.

[SteveG]

One other issue from Hungary:- does anyone know why the press conference was never broadcast ? It doesnt seem to be available on video anywhere either but there are transcripts on the official F1 site so it did happen. Those messy interviews from the podium are no substitute.

[banbrotam]

Interesting that now everyone has to look after their tyres, i.e. it's no longer a strategic option, a certain Mr. Button doesn't look in the same league as Alonso, Hamilton or Kimi

[Guest]

A real motorsport fan always knew JB was never in the same league as Hamilton, Alonso or Kimi, it was just going to take time for the top aggressive drivers to come to terms with the importance and over-emphasis of tyre management in this era of F1. If anything it was only in changeable conditions where JB's strategy ever really paid off, seeing as he's never won a pole position for McLaren and I believe he's only won one dry race in a McLaren at Australia. People claiming JB was superior to Hamilton back in 2011 as a driver overall were always going to look stupid in the long term and I'm just glad that these top drivers seem to be coming to terms with the tyres and now exciting drivers like Kimi & Hamilton are being rewarded.

JB's had his championship season in 09' and that propelled him, and into people's thinking on behalf of the BBC, as some kind of racing 'god' of a champion which was clearly wrong.

[banbrotam]

A real motorsport fan always knew JB was never in the same league as Hamilton, Alonso or Kimi, it was just going to take time for the top aggressive drivers to come to terms with the importance and over-emphasis of tyre management in this era of F1. If anything it was only in changeable conditions where JB's strategy ever really paid off, seeing as he's never won a pole position for McLaren and I believe he's only won one dry race in a McLaren at Australia. People claiming JB was superior to Hamilton back in 2011 as a driver overall were always going to look stupid in the long term and I'm just glad that these top drivers seem to be coming to terms with the tyres and now exciting drivers like Kimi & Hamilton are being rewarded.

JB's had his championship season in 09' and that propelled him, and into people's thinking on behalf of the BBC, as some kind of racing 'god' of a champion which was clearly wrong.

Excellent points. I like JB, but the thinking seemed to be that it was perfectly OK for someone to win the title by been good at managing their tyres. Meanwhile the skill 'risk' drivers - fall foul of some pathetic new rule in this new safety, safety and more safety first era (i.e. last year)

Thankfully the tyres have made sure that this season we're back to the best drivers getting rewarded and it's noticeable that even in Kimi''s rusty comeback season, he's still outshining the likes of JB and the ever increasingly mediocre Massa (it just shows how bad Massa is that with the best car a 'crash kid' rival with the authorities ruling against him all the time that he still didn't win 2008)

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