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Boxing Sheep Season 4 Game 10 HEEP Deadline Thursday 02/08/12 @2.30pm

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compelling and rich
two_tone
mobilemaster8
quentins_monkey
Mind the windows Tino.
seanmichaels
TopHat24/7
owen10ozzy
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Boxing Sheep Season 4 Game 10 HEEP Deadline Thursday 02/08/12 @2.30pm - Page 10 Empty Boxing Sheep Season 4 Game 10 HEEP Deadline Thursday 02/08/12 @2.30pm

Post by paperbag_puncher Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

Anyone ever play sheep? Basically I'll ask a series of "mainly boxing" related questions and the aim is to answer with the most popular answer. So for example if I asked name a heavyweight champion and 7 people said Ali they would get 7 points. If 5 said Louis they would get 5 points and so on. Whoever gets the most points wins. You would PM me your answers. I've seen it played on other forums and it seems to work well and passes some time.

Seems to be a bit of interest so we'll go again.

I have included the odd non boxing question to jazz it up a bit


Game 10 - Sheep Deadline 02-08-12 2:30pm NOTE THIS IS HEEP. The objective of heep is to guess the second highest answer. Scoring is the same as sheep, with the following differences: the highest answer (or tied answers) receives a score of 0, while the second highest answer (or tied answers) gets their points doubled. Highest score wins. THIS GAME IS WORTH DOUBLE POINTS Some questions may be repeat ones as there is a different dynamic to this game.

Name a boxer from Cuba
Name a big punching boxer with a fragile chin
If fights were to the finish (until someone was KO'd not killed) who would be HW champion today
Name an active boxer who is tall for his weight class
Who wins this 4 man tournament Audley, Ali, Rogan, Frazier
Name a movie trilogy
Name a type of street drug
Name a type of bear
Name a Blur song
How old is paperbag_puncher (yes this question is meant to be here)
Rules:

Spoiler:
game 1:
game 2:
game 3:
game 4:
game 5:
game 6:
game 7:
game 8:
game 9:
game 10:
PPSC HOF
Spoiler:



Player
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3
Game 4
Game 5
Game 6
Game 7
Game 8
Game 9
Game 10
Total
seanmichaels
-
-
6
10
10
14
5
10
7
-
62
superflyweight
1
3
-
-
10
6
7
-
10
14
51
Reborn
10
-
2
5
-
20
10
1
-
-
48
Tina
3
-
-
-
5
-
7
-
-
20
35
trottb
-
-
20
-
10
-
3
-
-
2
35
bellchees
3
-
-
5
7
10
3
-
-
6
34
two_tone
-
10
-
3
10
-
1
-
7
-
31
owen10ozzy
5
5
14
-
-
-
-
-
-
6
30
bhb001
-
-
-
-
-
-
10
-
1
10
21
quentins_monkey
-
-
10
7
-
-
-
-
-
-
17
compelling and rich
-
7
-
-
-
10
-
-
-
-
17
Il Gialloblu
7
-
-
-
3
-
-
-
-
-
10
TopHat24/7
-
-
2
1
-
-
1
5
-
-
9
rowley
-
-
-
-
1
-
3
3
-
-
7
Lumbering_Jack
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
6
6
seanusarrilius
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
5
-
-
5
PF4EC
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
3
-
3
mobilemaster8
-
-
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
2
Imperial Ghosty
-
-
-
-
-
2
-
-
-
-
2
Danny
-
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
1




Link to Season 1
https://www.606v2.com/t32101-new-game-boxing-kangaroo-13-07-deadline-215pm

Link to Season 2
https://www.606v2.com/t32494-boxing-sheep-season-2-games-9-10-deadline-friday-20-07-12-1200pm

Link to Season 3
https://www.606v2.com/t32862-boxing-sheep-season-3-game-9-10-deadline-tuesday-25-07-12-345pm


Last edited by paperbag_puncher on Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:19 am; edited 64 times in total

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:32 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:
I guess it a depends on what you value, being fit and healthy or being a slob. Most people favour the latter which is why this country has such chronic health issues which burden the tax payers (not you, Tina).

Do you look like you have walked off the set of Geordie Shore? Are you in Geordie Shore? Are you the red head with the huge bojangles?

And I do pay tax, I was joking earlier. My tax bill is probably more than your annual salary. That doesn't make me better than you, just richer and far more successful.

I don't watch geordie shore.

I'm 24, I would expect an old man to earn more than me.

I'm not 35 till November. Hardly old.

Anyway, lets not pretend like any of us are CEO's of bluechip organisations in the city... The fact that we can spend hours on here each day speaks volumes.

Anyone higher than middle management wouldn't have the time for such activities, although I am sure you guys are the exception. What do you spend your 6 figure salary on? A nice apartment in Kensington?

Whose nerve has been tweaked now! Which one of us has said we are a CEO though? I don't have an apartment in Kensington, I don't really like the city to be honest. I have my own house in village though. Ask your Mum and Dad about buying a house, they may well be able to help.

They already have, very generous of them.

Look, everyone tells little white lies online, but a hedge fund manager (or whatever it is you claim to be) that spends all day every day on here, really?

You need to tone it down a bit, make it more real.

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Post by seanmichaels Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:32 pm

rowley wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
seanmichaels wrote:

I think LJ may have hit a nerve.

Laugh

Hardly. 30's are great. Just ask jeff. If he can remember them of course.

I'm in the 30's crew (33). Difficult age bracket. Not old enough to bag a 20 year old girl and too old to get some pristine MILF.

Your personality probably doesn't help either.

ouch.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:33 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:What is the average Salary for men in the UK? Just a random question.........should put it in Sheep.

£26k is national average, given that women always bang on about being paid less I'd guess men's is maybe a £k or so more....?


Shocked im under-paid! Is that the national for London or something?!?!


Where i am, your lucky if your over £20kpa unless its a commission based role

Nope. Sorry Mobile. London is about £42k or something like that.

The national average is 24k. Remove London from that and it drops. It was on the Beeb a couple month ago.

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Post by quentins_monkey Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:34 pm

There's nothing wrong with the 30's (having recently joined the ranks myself)... other than lower levels of fitness, the inability to cope with heavy nights/hangovers, the shattering realisation that your best years are behind you, the urge to pick your nose while driving, finding hair growing in your ears and increased flatulence (especially in front of the long suffering missus)... Smile


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Post by Rowley Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:35 pm

Hedge fund manager Tina? Does this mean you have sold the window cleaning round?

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:35 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:What is the average Salary for men in the UK? Just a random question.........should put it in Sheep.

£26k is national average, given that women always bang on about being paid less I'd guess men's is maybe a £k or so more....?


Shocked im under-paid! Is that the national for London or something?!?!


Where i am, your lucky if your over £20kpa unless its a commission based role

Nope. Sorry Mobile. London is about £42k or something like that.

The national average is 24k. Remove London from that and it drops. It was on the Beeb a couple month ago.

Rubbish.

The Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) shows that the average gross salary for full-time employees was £26,200 in 2011, an increase of 1.4pc from 2010.


Last edited by TopHat24/7 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by bhb001 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:36 pm

quentins_monkey wrote:There's nothing wrong with the 30's (having recently joined the ranks myself)... other than lower levels of fitness, the inability to cope with heavy nights/hangovers, the shattering realisation that your best years are behind you, the urge to pick your nose while driving, finding hair growing in your ears and increased flatulence (especially in front of the long suffering missus)... Smile


Then you are going to love the 40's Whistle

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Post by paperbag_puncher Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:36 pm

Question 2: What one change would you make to improve the state of boxing today

One title per division - 7
PF4EC
Tina
bhb001
two_tone
Reborn
compelling and rich
Imperial Ghosty

One Governing Body - 6
mobilemaster8
seanmichaels
owen10ozzy
trottb
bellchees
rowley

Reduce number of weight divisions - 2
superflyweight
Lumbering_Jack

ACES:

Kill Bob Arum - TopHat24/7
Improved Drug Testing - quentins_monkey
Put Samuel L Jackson in charge. - John Bloody Wayne

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Post by seanmichaels Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:37 pm

National average is £24.5k roughly.

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Post by bhb001 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:37 pm

Rowley, how come you have already got a point in game 8?

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Post by Rowley Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:37 pm

Have to ask paperbag are one title and one governing body for all intents the same thing?

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:38 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Look, everyone tells little white lies online, but a hedge fund manager (or whatever it is you claim to be) that spends all day every day on here, really?

You need to tone it down a bit, make it more real.

The irony is delicious! So by your logic, you are an average looking guy who is carrying a bit of timber and only really pulls ugly lasses?

I am not a hedge fund manager. I just trade for one. Massive difference, flower.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by Rowley Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:38 pm

bhb001 wrote:Rowley, how come you have already got a point in game 8?

I took part, much beyond that is paperbags domain

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Post by bellchees Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:38 pm

I think one title per division and one governing body are the same thing really

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:38 pm

rowley wrote:Have to ask paperbag are one title and one governing body for all intents the same thing?

Bugger off Rowley! That'll knacker me and it's only question 2!!

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Post by bhb001 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:38 pm

rowley wrote:Have to ask paperbag are one title and one governing body for all intents the same thing?

Not when you start going on about diamond belts, silver belts etc

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Post by mobilemaster8 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:39 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:What is the average Salary for men in the UK? Just a random question.........should put it in Sheep.

£26k is national average, given that women always bang on about being paid less I'd guess men's is maybe a £k or so more....?


Shocked im under-paid! Is that the national for London or something?!?!


Where i am, your lucky if your over £20kpa unless its a commission based role

Nope. Sorry Mobile. London is about £42k or something like that.

The national average is 24k. Remove London from that and it drops. It was on the Beeb a couple month ago.

Rubbish.

The Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) shows that the average gross salary for full-time employees was £26,200 in 2011, an increase of 1.4pc from 2010.


Well im 25 so i suppose im still "young" in comparison to the "30's" club mentioned.

My Salary yearly ranges from £20k - £27k per annum depending on my performance!!!


Cheers Shropshire!!!

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:39 pm

seanmichaels wrote:National average is £24.5k roughly.

No it's not. See above.

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Post by paperbag_puncher Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:39 pm

Question 3: Who has been worse for boxing Frank Warren, Don King, Bob Arum, Goldenboy

Bob Arum - 13
mobilemaster8
Imperial Ghosty
bellchees
Lumbering_Jack
TopHat24/7
quentins_monkey
superflyweight
compelling and rich
owen10ozzy
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Tina
rowley

Don King - 3
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ACES:

Audley - John Bloody Wayne
Frank Warren - bhb001

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Post by two_tone Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:40 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Look, everyone tells little white lies online, but a hedge fund manager (or whatever it is you claim to be) that spends all day every day on here, really?

You need to tone it down a bit, make it more real.

The irony is delicious! So by your logic, you are an average looking guy who is carrying a bit of timber and only really pulls ugly lasses?

I am not a hedge fund manager. I just trade for one. Massive difference, flower.

He is being a Lumbering_Jackass today isn't he?

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Post by paperbag_puncher Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:41 pm

rowley wrote:Have to ask paperbag are one title and one governing body for all intents the same thing?

I thought about that alright. Nothing to stop that one organisation having diamond, silver, chocolate belts etc. I decided to split them up.

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Post by seanmichaels Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:42 pm

CAN WE CONCENTRATE ON THE SHEEP PLEASE?

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Post by Rowley Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:42 pm

paperbag_puncher wrote:
rowley wrote:Have to ask paperbag are one title and one governing body for all intents the same thing?

I thought about that alright. Nothing to stop that one organisation having diamond, silver, chocolate belts etc. I decided to split them up.

Fair enough, as you know last thing I would do is question how the quiz is run, as you were.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:43 pm

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Look, everyone tells little white lies online, but a hedge fund manager (or whatever it is you claim to be) that spends all day every day on here, really?

You need to tone it down a bit, make it more real.

The irony is delicious! So by your logic, you are an average looking guy who is carrying a bit of timber and only really pulls ugly lasses?

I am not a hedge fund manager. I just trade for one. Massive difference, flower.

I've got a bird, I dont need to pull.

Anyway, I'm pleased you earn 6 figures at (I'm sure) a very reputable successful trader. No doubt the bonus scheme is awesome as well. Have you made your first million..... actually, scrap that, first 10 million yet?

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Post by paperbag_puncher Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:43 pm

rowley wrote:
bhb001 wrote:Rowley, how come you have already got a point in game 8?

I took part, much beyond that is paperbags domain

Ha Union usually looks after the league table. Its very messy to do and I'm just learning. I'll fix it later.

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Post by Rowley Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:43 pm

seanmichaels wrote:CAN WE CONCENTRATE ON THE SHEEP PLEASE?

You sound like Steffan Sean

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:44 pm

two_tone wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Look, everyone tells little white lies online, but a hedge fund manager (or whatever it is you claim to be) that spends all day every day on here, really?

You need to tone it down a bit, make it more real.

The irony is delicious! So by your logic, you are an average looking guy who is carrying a bit of timber and only really pulls ugly lasses?

I am not a hedge fund manager. I just trade for one. Massive difference, flower.

He is being a Lumbering_Jackass today isn't he?

He generally is. Although bickering with him is like taking candy from a baby.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by John Bloody Wayne Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:45 pm

I tried to take candy from a baby once. Nasty business, the kid just didn't want to give up it's candy.

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Post by paperbag_puncher Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:46 pm

rowley wrote:
paperbag_puncher wrote:
rowley wrote:Have to ask paperbag are one title and one governing body for all intents the same thing?

I thought about that alright. Nothing to stop that one organisation having diamond, silver, chocolate belts etc. I decided to split them up.

Fair enough, as you know last thing I would do is question how the quiz is run, as you were.

You're much too civilsed for that I know. I was going to put them in together but that would mean you would all get 13 points and I'd have to listen to the people who gave other answers moan about how they are not inextricably linked and can mean different things. I took the easy route..

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:46 pm

two_tone wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Look, everyone tells little white lies online, but a hedge fund manager (or whatever it is you claim to be) that spends all day every day on here, really?

You need to tone it down a bit, make it more real.

The irony is delicious! So by your logic, you are an average looking guy who is carrying a bit of timber and only really pulls ugly lasses?

I am not a hedge fund manager. I just trade for one. Massive difference, flower.

He is being a Lumbering_Jackass today isn't he?

How? People question what I say, why do the rest of you take offence when I question others? Tina seems happy to suggest he is soooper rich, pays more tax than I earn, yet when I question if he is really a trader who can spend 6 hours per day on here I am the one being provocative.

Don't take offence, I will never be able to expose the real truth. We can all live in our bubbles here.

Did I mention I have a date with Pippa Middleton later, can't wait.

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Post by mobilemaster8 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:47 pm

John Bloody Wayne wrote:I tried to take candy from a baby once. Nasty business, the kid just didn't want to give up it's candy.


thumbsdown

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:47 pm

rowley wrote:Hedge fund manager Tina? Does this mean you have sold the window cleaning round?

When PBF makes his long awaited (?) return to the board, I am sure I will revert to being a window cleaner.

You have got to the love his word association.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by paperbag_puncher Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:47 pm

Scores after question 3:

compelling and rich - 33
Reborn - 33
Tina - 33
Imperial Ghosty - 33
bellchees - 32
rowley - 32
seanmichaels - 32
mobilemaster8 - 32
superflyweight - 28
quentins_monkey - 27
TopHat24/7 - 27
two_tone - 23
trottb - 22
owen10ozzy - 21
Lumbering_Jack - 17
PF4EC - 11
bhb001 - 9
John Bloody Wayne - 3

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:48 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Look, everyone tells little white lies online, but a hedge fund manager (or whatever it is you claim to be) that spends all day every day on here, really?

You need to tone it down a bit, make it more real.

The irony is delicious! So by your logic, you are an average looking guy who is carrying a bit of timber and only really pulls ugly lasses?

I am not a hedge fund manager. I just trade for one. Massive difference, flower.

I've got a bird, I dont need to pull.

Anyway, I'm pleased you earn 6 figures at (I'm sure) a very reputable successful trader. No doubt the bonus scheme is awesome as well. Have you made your first million..... actually, scrap that, first 10 million yet?

Does it matter?

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Post by Rowley Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:48 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:

Did I mention I have a date with Pippa Middleton later, can't wait.

Slumming it a bit aren't you?

Rowley
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Post by paperbag_puncher Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:49 pm

Question 4: Who has been the best for boxing of the above 4

Don King - 11
PF4EC
superflyweight
rowley
compelling and rich
Imperial Ghosty
Lumbering_Jack
Reborn
seanmichaels
TopHat24/7
bellchees
quentins_monkey

Goldenboy - 7
mobilemaster8
John Bloody Wayne
bhb001
trottb
owen10ozzy
two_tone
Tina


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Post by John Bloody Wayne Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:49 pm

mobilemaster8 wrote:
John Bloody Wayne wrote:I tried to take candy from a baby once. Nasty business, the kid just didn't want to give up it's candy.


thumbsdown

I'm sorry. I'm not ageist, some of my best friends are babies.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:50 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
How? People question what I say, why do the rest of you take offence when I question others? Tina seems happy to suggest he is soooper rich, pays more tax than I earn, yet when I question if he is really a trader who can spend 6 hours per day on here I am the one being provocative.

It was partly tongue in cheek in response to your yawn inducing posts about how manly you are. But, I guess using your logic, we have now established you are a bit of a chubber with with a face like a slapped arse.

You're still my mate though.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by trottb Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:51 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote: pays more tax than I earn.

How much are tea boys on these days?

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Post by mobilemaster8 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:51 pm

John Bloody Wayne wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:
John Bloody Wayne wrote:I tried to take candy from a baby once. Nasty business, the kid just didn't want to give up it's candy.


thumbsdown

I'm sorry. I'm not ageist, some of my best friends are babies.


thumbsup Thanks Jimmy Carr

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Post by paperbag_puncher Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:52 pm

Question 5: Name an American fighter who didnt make the most of his talent

Toney - 4
trottb
TopHat24/7
superflyweight
compelling and rich

Riddick bowe - 4
Imperial Ghosty
bellchees
seanmichaels
quentins_monkey

Mike Tyson - 3
owen10ozzy
Lumbering_Jack
two_tone

Don Curry - 2
bhb001
Tina

ACES:

Buster Douglas - rowley
50 cent - John Bloody Wayne
Andre Dirrell - mobilemaster8
Oscar de la hoya - PF4EC
Vernon Forrest - Reborn

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Post by paperbag_puncher Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:52 pm

Scores after question 5:

compelling and rich - 48
Imperial Ghosty - 48
bellchees - 47
seanmichaels - 47
Reborn - 45
rowley - 44
superflyweight - 43
quentins_monkey - 42
Tina - 42
TopHat24/7 - 42
mobilemaster8 - 40
trottb - 33
two_tone - 33
Lumbering_Jack - 31
owen10ozzy - 31
PF4EC - 23
bhb001 - 18
John Bloody Wayne - 11

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Post by John Bloody Wayne Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:52 pm

mobilemaster8 wrote:
John Bloody Wayne wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:
John Bloody Wayne wrote:I tried to take candy from a baby once. Nasty business, the kid just didn't want to give up it's candy.


thumbsdown

I'm sorry. I'm not ageist, some of my best friends are babies.


thumbsup Thanks Jimmy Carr

Prove I don't pay taxes. Go on.

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Post by mobilemaster8 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:53 pm

John Bloody Wayne wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:
John Bloody Wayne wrote:
mobilemaster8 wrote:
John Bloody Wayne wrote:I tried to take candy from a baby once. Nasty business, the kid just didn't want to give up it's candy.


thumbsdown

I'm sorry. I'm not ageist, some of my best friends are babies.


thumbsup Thanks Jimmy Carr


Laugh

Prove I don't pay taxes. Go on.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:54 pm

I like the way JBW is playing for comic effect, not points.

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Post by paperbag_puncher Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:54 pm

Question 6: Name someone who will win gold in boxing at London 2012

Anthony Joshua - 7
owen10ozzy
superflyweight
Tina
Reborn
compelling and rich
quentins_monkey
two_tone

Lomachenko - 4
bellchees
TopHat24/7
trottb
Imperial Ghosty

Anthony Agogo - 3
mobilemaster8
PF4EC
seanmichaels

ACES:

Dolphin girl - John Bloody Wayne
Usain Bolt - Lumbering_Jack
Ivan Drago - bhb001
Campbell - rowley

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Post by John Bloody Wayne Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:55 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:I like the way JBW is playing for comic effect, not points.

Er, yeah...comic effect...

I stand by my first answer. Tyson would dominate the super six.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:56 pm

trottb wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote: pays more tax than I earn.

How much are tea boys on these days?

At least try and be original.

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Post by TopHat24/7 Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:56 pm

darn it! Bad time to switch from Joshua!! Should never have gone back to read 6oldenboy's betting thread!

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Post by trottb Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:59 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:darn it! Bad time to switch from Joshua!! Should never have gone back to read 6oldenboy's betting thread!

Laugh Did exactly the same thing TopHat. The 5/6 odds were what sold me.

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