Coming soon: decision on long putters

First topic message reminder :

"The day after the 2012 British Open concluded, Peter Dawson, chief executive of the Royal & Ancient, which governs the rules of golf along with the United States Golf Association, said the two organizations were going to come to a decision on the permissibility of long putters this fall.

“The subject is firmly on our radar, and we need to clarify the position as soon as possible,” Dawson said".

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/09/sports/golf/golf-pros-line-up-to-debate-use-of-long-putters.html

Looks like this issue will finally be addressed. The tone of Dawson's comments suggest they will be banned. As mentioned on another thread, Keegan Bradley's pressure putting has been a joy to watch over the past year, is this down to the belly putter he uses? We may find out if he is forced to use a short putter.

Doon

They might determine the length of shaft that can be used in a putter, which would be the same thing.

Yes, Tiger is lobbying to make the putter the shortest club in the bag.

Can anyone give an example of someone using a long putter that isn't anchored to the body? The only one I can think of is Kuchar. He runs the grip up his forearm which still provides an advantage imo by eliminating wrist action. Hopefully any new rule will state that the club must only touch the hands.

Well, I must admit, as a self confessed carp putter and being over the age of 60, I am in 2 or 3 minds over this issue.

I have and have had the 'yips' for many years now and have been tempted to try and control those with a long putter - but, I found that when I tried a long putter, regardless of this 'anchoring' factor, the head still waved about in the breeze, I could still twitch the ball off the green and the longer arc of the clubhead gave me more room to bollix things up.

I have also considered a heavy putter like a boccieri or whatever they are called. They frighten the life out of me and my regular playing partners, as they could see the ball rifling back towards the tee when a twitch came.

However, what made sense to me and did seem to quieten my nervous tic somewhat, was shortening the shaft to about 30 inches and adding lead to the head and shaft to counteract the lost swing weight. Trouble is it played hell with my bad back.

Why doesn't woods keep his nine chinned mouth shut. Why does he care if someone uses a long putter. He's done more to shame the game than anyone using a long putter. Knobend.

incontinentia wrote:Can anyone give an example of someone using a long putter that isn't anchored to the body?

I believe Angel Cabrera uses a long putter but with a conventional stroke. He just sort of bends the elbows so the forearms are almost parallel to the ground. He putted that way when he won The Masters, don't know whether he has changed his style since?

Butch just now on Sky suggesting there'll be a large class action suit against the USGA and R&A if they ban them, for depriving the players of a means of earning.

Surely, though, that's a self defeating premise? If you say that being deprived of the ability to anchor your putter amounts to depriving you of a means of earning, you're surely admitting, nay advocating, the fact that that method of putting offers an advantage over the 'conventional' stroke?

super_realist wrote:Why doesn't woods keep his nine chinned mouth shut. Why does he care if someone uses a long putter. He's done more to shame the game than anyone using a long putter. Knobend.

I can't stand Woods, but this a stunningly stupid comment.

SmithersJones wrote:Butch just now on Sky suggesting there'll be a large class action suit against the USGA and R&A if they ban them, for depriving the players of a means of earning.

Surely, though, that's a self defeating premise? If you say that being deprived of the ability to anchor your putter amounts to depriving you of a means of earning, you're surely admitting, nay advocating, the fact that that method of putting offers an advantage over the 'conventional' stroke?

I'd like to see them try this. Sabre rattling of a stupid sort. They'd be laughed out of court.

NedB-H wrote:

super_realist wrote:Why doesn't woods keep his nine chinned mouth shut. Why does he care if someone uses a long putter. He's done more to shame the game than anyone using a long putter. Knobend.

I can't stand Woods, but this a stunningly stupid comment.

In what way? Woods behaviour is far more "against the spirit" than using a different putter to others.

super- I may be wrong, but I don't think spitting, club throwing etc comes under the umbrella of "spirit of the game" infringements.

I always thought that was more to do with things that directly influence play, e.g. gamesmanship, measuring a drop with the long putter and so on.

Anyway, who says what's in the spirit of the game or not? This seems to be a grey area in golf.

Not sure about the US, but golf is seen as being a sport in which bad/petulant/childish behaviour is frowned at over here. vis a vis, against the gentlemanly spirit of the game.

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super_realist wrote:Not sure about the US, but golf is seen as being a sport in which bad/petulant/childish behaviour is frowned at over here. vis a vis, against the gentlemanly spirit of the game.

On a slightly different, yet related note. Why is there something called a "gentlemans club"? No gentlemen go there.

Is there an announcement on this today?

I see Woods is dead against the belly putter, perhaps due to 3/4 majors in 2012 going to users.

He should suck it up, stop moping and get himself a chin putter. He's got plenty space to anchor it there.

Yes - this has appeared.

http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2012/November/Anchoring.aspx

So basically, all of those cheating anchors have until 2016 to learn a new putting stroke...

Sr, Tiger could putt with a spade and still crush the opposition.

Really, When did he last win a major? And what part of his game is currently one of his achilles heels?

PUTTING!

He should be defending the cheat stick, because he needs it.

incontinentia wrote:Sr, Tiger could putt with a spade and still crush the opposition.

Only if he used it to bludgeon all the other players in the field.

Is it me or does this sound like the ramblings that we used to get from Simba/Max/Keizo?

Just don't mention Potatoes/Famine/Sands/Kneecaps/Bombs/Bogtrotting/Abortions/Leprechauns/Luck of the Irish etc. You'll never hear the end of it

Its you

Skydriver wrote:So basically, all of those cheating anchors have until 2016 to learn a new putting stroke...

I wouldn't count myself as a cheat at all. I use a long putter (very different from a belly putter; although peope seem to be grouping them as the same thing) and have done for about 10 years. The switch was made because I had the yips with the short putter. It was a case of long putter, or quit. I wasn't doing it to gain an advantage. In fact, I'd say using a long putter is a DISadvantage. It's much more difficult to master. I may be a lot of things, but a cheat I aint!

OK, my alternative joke went along the lines of Simpson, Bradley et al now turning the tables and calling the USGA and R&A a bunch of anchors.

But that doesn't make as much sense.

No offence intended anyway.

Surely the fact that it cured your yips gave you an advantage Jeff?

PS I for one am glad to hear that players who use an anchored putting stroke (or "wanchors" as they have come to be known) will become a thing of the past from 2016

There's also the less-debated point that a broomhandle putter is advantageous if the player chooses to use it when needing to measure one or two club-lengths for a drop. No change proposed here though.

Skydriver wrote:There's also the less-debated point that a broomhandle putter is advantageous if the player chooses to use it when needing to measure one or two club-lengths for a drop. No change proposed here though.

Some commentators criticised Vijay for that before saying it 'wasn't in the spirit of the game'. Bit ambiguous though? How does someone know what is and isnt in the spirit of the game??

Donald and Gpudding have also condemned the long putters, anyone going to have a go at them ?
Super if Poultry had said what Tigger did you'd be banging on about how refreshing it is he has an opinion, Woods has an opinion and you slag him off despite always slating him for usually not giving an opinion.
Consistency please.
2016 not soon enough for me by the way.

incontinentia wrote:Surely the fact that it cured your yips gave you an advantage Jeff?

I guess what I mean is that it gives me no advantage over a short putter user, as in my view, it's more difficult to use. I agree it gives me an advantage over putting with the yips.

Would you say more difficult to use Jeff, or more difficult to get the hang of using ?

Diggers wrote:Would you say more difficult to use Jeff, or more difficult to get the hang of using ?

More difficult to use and get used to. I've seen people use the long putter and I can only liken it to watching someone throw with their wrong hand. By far the easiest method of putting is with a short putter. It's instinctive and natural. The long putter is clunky, unnatural, heavy, and a nightmare to use in the wind!

Jeff depending on how you use the long handled you may be okay. This link shows pictures of prohibited and permitted actions. If your top hand and forearm are way from your body you'll be okay.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Anchoring/Prohibited-And-Permitted-Strokes.aspx

Fair enough but that being the case why would some guys choose to use if from the start of their careers, like Bradley, when yips isn't an issue ?
Surely the only answer is they find it easier to use or else why do it ?

Perhaps not easier, but more comfortable.

Diggers wrote:Fair enough but that being the case why would some guys choose to use if from the start of their careers, like Bradley, when yips isn't an issue ?
Surely the only answer is they find it easier to use or else why do it ?

I totally agree. Using it to save a career is one thing. To enhance it is another.

So, essentially, my gripe is that I think there are FAR bigger issues in Golf that aren't addressed. The golf ball being number one!

I have no issue with guys using it for recreational golf , if it makes the game fun for them then that's all good.
I just hate seeing a pro use one.

seems very unfair on bradley/simpson etc.... R&A have moved the goalposts on them. they decided to go for bellyputters as youngsters when they were given the option of both.
now they have put years and years of dedicated practise in, the R&A say oh wait, we didnt realise you would be that good at it and have banned it.

Diggers wrote:I have no issue with guys using it for recreational golf , if it makes the game fun for them then that's all good.
I just hate seeing a pro use one.

Agree. What's the issue with Joe Bloggs using one? None. Unless Joe is a major winner.

hend085 wrote:seems very unfair on bradley/simpson etc.... R&A have moved the goalposts on them. they decided to go for bellyputters as youngsters when they were given the option of both.
now they have put years and years of dedicated practise in, the R&A say oh wait, we didnt realise you would be that good at it and have banned it.

Yes, I think there could be some pretty nasty court cases on the horizon.

what do you consider recreational golf?
allowed to use one on a sunday medal? a society? a bounce game?
needs to be a blanket ban if it ia going to be introduced at all IMOv (though i think it shouldnt be introduced to anyone)

JeffCarnage wrote:

hend085 wrote:seems very unfair on bradley/simpson etc.... R&A have moved the goalposts on them. they decided to go for bellyputters as youngsters when they were given the option of both.
now they have put years and years of dedicated practise in, the R&A say oh wait, we didnt realise you would be that good at it and have banned it.

Yes, I think there could be some pretty nasty court cases on the horizon.

the R&A need to be really careful how they manage this going forward. are they calling Webb/Keegan cheats? is there an asterix in the history books beside there names like there is in swimming for the guys in the really fast suits?
they are in danger of discrediting the achievements of all previous succesful "wanchors", who after all, were playing well withinin the rules of the game, they werent taking advantage of any loop hole or anything like that.

No-one's claiming Bradley et al's victories are worth an asterisk (asterix is a cartoon character btw!).

Get rid of the lot of them asap. See them in court if needs be - in fact, that could be comedy gold.

Lots of good points on this...
What do people think, with the ban being enforced only in 2016, do you think there will be (m)any pro(s) who will continue to use anchoring between now and then? Sounds to me like it's creating another problem with this 3-year ambiguous period... I'd say if some will choose to continue to use anchored putters in tour events from now on, they'll be leaving themselves exposed to even more intense finger-pointing and comments from the media, public and maybe even from fellow pros... Simpson, Bradley and Els have been already mentioned and pointed at a lot for winning majors with the long putter, imagine how people would react now if anyone with a long putter wins another major or even an ordinary tournament...

Just ban it for the professionals. The rest is about having fun. Do not want to put people off the game by making it not enjoyable.

I think the recent Major winners are (kind of) OK as they'll have lengthy exemptions and so less pressure on switching over as their card is safe for the period the exemption lasts.

Given the lack of close season, those guys that need to make the money to retain their privileges will be right up against it having to convert at some point and cut the mustard immediately.

How did the guys do that went to the long/anchor from "normal" in the first year or so?

I agree with the idea that anchoring should go. I don't agree that the long bats make it easier and that's the reason they should go though. I merely agree that the swing should be a free one without anchor.

What do they mean by to anchor? Is it that they club cannot touch any other part of your body at all? Or just cannot rest on a part of you body on its on. The anchor term implies it has to be held on a part of the body without being held in place by the players hands. It doesn't seem clear.

Beninho, check out these pictures, these show what is meant by anchoring and thus will be prohibited:

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Anchoring/Prohibited-And-Permitted-Strokes.aspx.

Webb Simpson gave his 2 cents worth on the subject yesterday

"Do I think they should be banned? No, and here's why," he said. "You take a wooden driver compared with the 460cc's titanium, and to me that's a lot bigger difference than a 35-inch putter to a 45-inch putter."

+++++++++++++

That would be completely missing the point then, Webb! "Anchoring" isn't a golf stroke as the game was intended to be played. End of. It's got nothing to do with advances in equipment. Long and belly putters started golf own a dangerous road a long time ago, and I've always thought so. What next? Putting on all fours, using a snooker cue type of club?

Totally in favour of banning anchored putters (and that's speaking as someone who had my first experience of the yips this season). My only quibble would be, why on earth delay it by another THREE years?!!! Why not from, say, 2014, if it's not deemed to be in the spirit of the game?

It seems a bit precious by the rules makers. No obesity has broken any rules therefore no-one had cheated or done anything wrong. There is no such thing as the spirit of the game. Everyone had the choice of what putter to use or how they wanted to use it. Some people used one way others a different way. It has had a very minor impact on golf in general. Professional golfers take 5hrs plus to play a round. Golf balls are made to have various different impacts. But it's the putting stroke of a group of players that they want to take to task? If it's banned for all golf then thats just crazy.

There will be many lawsuits which will drag this past 2016.

Surely there are many more things like spitting, club throwing, petulant swearing and displays of anger/frustration, appearance fees, sexism/male only clubs, slow play etc that are far more against the spirit of the game than how a player holds and swings a putter.

On a separate issue but related issue, there is no evidence, or none that has been revealed that proves that belly putter or long putters are any better at getting the ball in the hole than any other type of conventional putter. So what's the phunking problem?

As far as we know, no putter has any advantage over any other, so the R&A would be better looking closer to home and taking that dinosaur of a course off the rota if they want to keep their end of the "spirit of the game" up. To provide the paying public with a course worthy of holding an entertaining and thrilling Open Championship.