The Pietersen and Steyn effect.

JP Pietersen and Frans Steyn both made their debuts for South Africa in 2006, Pietersen in September of 2006 and Frans Steyn in November 2006.

We often look at players such as half backs (Genia, Fourie du Preez) and Flyhalves (Dan Carter, Morne Steyn and Quade Cooper) and consider them to be the pivotal positions around the success of a team.

I want to focus on these two players from South africa to see how they influenced the results of South Africa since being selected in 2006.

Frans Steyn has played 49 tests for South Africa since November 2006 and since November 2006 South Africa as played a total number of 71 matches.

Overall results with Frans Steyn - 37 wins out of 49 = 75.5%
Overall results without Frans Steyn - 11 wins out of 22 = 50%
Results vs NZ with Frans Steyn - 4 wins out of 7 = 57%
Results vs OZ with Frans Steyn - 4 wins out of 9 = 44.4%
Results vs NZ without Frans Steyn - 1 win out of 5 = 20%
Results vs OZ without Frans Steyn - 1 win out of 6 = 16.7%

JP Pietersen has played 45 tests for South Africa since September 2006 and since Spetember 2006 South Africa has played a total number of 72 matches.

Overall results with JP Pietersen - 32 wins out of 45 and one draw = 72%
Overall results without JP Pietersen - 15 wins out of 27 = 55.5%
Results vs NZ with JP Pietersen - 4 wins out of 8 = 50%
Results vs OZ with JP Pietersen - 5 wins out of 11 = 45.5%

It becomes very telling when you look at the matches where both of them played in the match.
Total matches plaed by both players - 27 wins out of 33 matches = 82%
Results against NZ - 3 wins out of 5 = 60%
Results against OZ - 4 wins out of 8 = 50%

Now I know this is only statistical, but there must be some value in these stats when you consider that without these two playing the win rate is a mere 55% vs the 82% win rate when they are both in the team.

In my humble opinion the loss of JP Pietersen who has been in his best form I have ever seen him in, is a huge loss to our team and Frans Steyn together with JP Pietersen are two of our most influential players.

Imagine those two at centre!

Oh, yeah baby.

Very selective Biltong,3 of the AB losses were 2009,in which Ali Williams missed all 3.Dan Carter 2,Conrad Smith 1,Ritchie McCaw not match fit for the first 2.Two of the three in SA,NZ supporters could talk of the McCaw/Carter effect when they lost something like 8 out of 80 over a period of years.Stats are wonderful can prove anything,like the AllBlacks have won nearly twice as many 3Ns matches as the Boks and Wallabies combined.What does it prove other than both are talented players NOTHING.The three 2009 wins were down too the Bok pack Matfield/Botha plus Fourie Du Preez and Morne Steyn.THE best Lineout forwards in the World jumping against a Rookie at 5 and a non jumper at 4.No wonder in the first half alone in the 3rd match 13 lineouts were lost,but with Dan Carter back it was only settled with more or less the last kick of the game.Isaac Ross praised to hills,made responsible for lineout calls,then dumped and could`nt even get a start for his ITM side.Or perhaps the All Blacks won 4 out of the last 5 because they adapted to the law changes and Fourie Du Preez was missing or not the man he was.Or Smit played when past his sell by date and Bismarck Du Plessis should have started instead or that 3 of the 5 matches were at home.

Steyn is an absolute beast. I think he'd probably make it in to most world XV's at 12 at the moment.

Biltong,
When people come out with stats I like to know how they are calculated - like minutes played, starting/replacement etc. - let alone the source.

But when confronted with the likes of

Results vs NZ with Frans Steyn - 4 wins out of 7 = 57%

I just have to switch off because I don't know anything about the actual stats.

The same goes for X has 56 caps for Y. When the game time might be the equivalent of ten matches.

SBW would probably be the starting World Xv 12 not Franny Steyn both are proven talents.But neither have yet done it much at test Level,Franny has been a utility back.FB in the 3 2009 AllBlack losses came back in 2010 unfit and overweight.Looked the business in the RWC before injury Pietersen played most of his Rugby on the wing.

Guys, there is nothing selective about these stats.

It shows how many matches they played and how many were won and lost.

You can read into them whatever you want.

Alan, show me how often a team plays with their first choice XV, SA is playing this Rugby Championship without Pietersen, Burger, Smith and Brussow.

It is just the way it is.

Have to agree there with you Biltongs, those are not really stats, just a record of games played/won. Stats I think are what people deduce from numbers, nes cest pas??

Sang sacré, OzT!
Stats and numbers are indeed what you make of them. However, in this case I don't think our friend Biltong is claiming those two dudes make South Africa the best team in the world (though he might hope so). Or that wins in the 4 Nations/Rugby Championship are guaranteed. Looks to me he is showing the significant improvement in the Boks won-lost record with them playing. And that seems to me a pretty fair point when looking at approx. 45 - 50 matches each. Couple that with Pietersen playing the best Rugby of his life, would make the Boks even better.

Touche Doc.

(I know there needs to be a little thingy on the e, but have no idea how to do it)

If Steyn-Pieterson do end up in the centres, where will Serfontein fit in?

In fact, isn't his best position 12, like Steyn?

Of course this will be a few years away, but that kid is talented.

It will be a nice problem to have, but I would love to see them play just a few together as a midfield.

Individual stats can be a little misleading as it depends more on the losing matches you miss.

Most top ABs are around the 85-90% mark last time I looked and the difference is usually whether they played key losses.

What are the percentages for those who perhaps aren't as talented. I think you'll find some surprising results there too.

Steyn is somewhat selective. Missed some key 3n matches yet played the easy world cup ones.

But in returning to the players. Steyn, when he decides to play, and pieterson, who is by far SA best back selected in this series, stand out because they go against the Bok grain. They have flair, take their chances, and look as though they actually enjoy playing and being on the field, running with ball in hand.

Would be interesting to see how seven such backs would go. But that won't happen soon. Its probably seen as a risk to have two of these upstarts...the more 'sensible' 'responsible' jdvs and m steyns around to put out any of that fiery nonsense.

The rest look stifled, carrying the weight of his juggarnaut gameplan requirement.

Biltong wrote:Touche Doc.

(I know there needs to be a little thingy on the e, but have no idea how to do it)

I used the ASCII code 0233 (hold alt and type 0233).

Biltong...

Ive always thought Pietersen was a quality player, who always impressed me when he played. He is a loss to SA if he's not playing...

Whilst your pack was impressive....i believe JP played a big part in the summer internationals defeat to you guys.