Colour Line Greats - Kid Norfolk

After pandering to the masses with a shamelessly accessible Lennox Lewis thread I have decided that Milkyboy is right, populism and me make unhappy bedfellows, and if there is one sure fire way of avoiding populism it is by reopening the ever ignored Colour Line Greats series and thus I give you the story of Kid Norfolk.

Born William Ward in Virginia Norfolk, like so many black fighters of the era got his fighting starts in the shameful Battle Royals of the day and even in such a format managed to catch the eye of former middleweight contnder Kid Reason who convinced the young fighter he could make a decent livng fighting in Baltimore, a move Norfolk made, whilst fights came there the level of opposition and money were both poor. However despite making little to no money Norfolk caught the eye of a local businessman and big time engineer VA Mason who told Kid there was big money to be made in Panama where work on the Panama was well underway and the likes of Sam Langford and Sam McVea werre making big money fighting in front of the construction workers. Given his lack of opportunities in the States the Kid took little persuading to accompany Mason to Panama.

However once there Mason found his work with the canal was taking far more of his time than he anticipated and arranging fights for Norfolk was way off his list of priorities and Norfolk was reduced to little more than a house guest and after an incident where Norfolk felt Mason was treating him like a servant the two parted way and Norfolk found himself in with local big shot HR Cambridge who had little interest in boxing but on seeing that Norfolk was determined to fight began to arrange fights for the Kid. At first many of these were amongst sailors and construction workers but once it became apparent Norfolk was a serious fighter the level of opposition increased and Norfolk went on to be unbeaten for five years. That remained the case until the great JeffClarke (who has featured in this series) visited the island and showed far too much experience and guile for Norfolk.

Kid was son to return to the states but not before beating Big Bill Tate who would go on to earn a level of fame as a regular sparring partner of Jack Dempsey and avenging his loss to Clarke. Upon returning to the states Nortfolk hooked up with shameless and infamous promoter Leo P Flynn, whose approach to fighters was to build a large stable and keep them fighting regularly with little care to either developing their career or over matching them. Despite Flynn's lack of care Kid kept winning and his form eventually earned him a fight with the excellent Billy Miske who had a decent claim to be the best light heavy in the world at the time, a claim he backed up early in the fight when he handled Norfolk with ease, but as the fight developed Kid adjusted and by the end of ten rounds he took a hard fought and deserved victory.

This victory made the boxing world sit up and take notice and Flynn began to fire challenges off to the likes of Dillon, Levinsky and Gibbons but these went unanswered. One fighter who was only too happy to answer the call was the peerless Sam Langford and although a couple of years past his best Sam still knew too much for Norfolk and not only beat him but also gave him his first stoppage loss. Despite rebounding and rattling off more wins than losses the big opportunities eluded Norfolk until he was able to secure a fight against Big Bill Tate on the undercard of Jack Demspey's heavyweight title defence against Bill Brennan. Whilst Dempsey had more trouble than expected with Brennan Norfolk was rarely better than he was that night and such was the lacing he gave Tate that even experts as respected as Ring Lardner went on record to say he represented a genuine threat to Dempsey and that Jack would be wise to give Norfolk a wide berth based on their respective showings.

As history tells us the fight with Demspey was not to materialise but after a lay off from an eye injury that would go on to blight his career Norfolk did get to fight one great of the era when he met the incomparable Harry Greb for the first time. The fight was a close affair with Norfolk dominating the early exchanges and even dropping Greb but as Norfolk began to tire Greb came back into it and although the newspaper decisions seemed split on round scoring it seemed clear Kid had done something few ever managed and had had the better of Greb.

However it was Dempsey Norfolk wanted and in an attempt to force the fight Norfolk squared off against Dempsey's most obvious rival Harry Wills. Whilst Norfolk often gave away weight to opponents giving away so much weight to a fighter of Wills ability seemed suicidal (Wills 235, Norfolk 185lbs) and so it came to pass with Wills nearly decapitating Norfolk inside two rounds. Despite this loss 1921 was to be a good year for Norfolk with him picking up wins over the likes of Tiger Flowers, Tut Jackson, Jamaica Kid and Battling Siki, all decent fighters in their own right.

Kid Norfolk's good form carried on through 1922 and 1924 but by 1924 he was showing signs of wear and tear and his vision from the previously mentioned eye injury was beginning to seriously hamper his abilities. Another fighter suffering similar vision problems was former rival Harry Greb who had gone on to win the world middleweight championship since their first battle and the two locked horns again in April of that year. Greb's title was not on the line and he can probably consider himself lucky as Norfolk repeated the win in the first fight when Greb fouled him after the bell to end the sixth after being thoroughly frustrated by Kid's dominance in the fight thus far.

The Greb fight was to be Norfolk's last hurrah and whilst he fought on for another year or so his pretensions at world class werew all but over. It is always risky to assess any fighter on stats but the Kid's make for impressive reading. Through his career he went 5-0 against world champions, during his peak years the only losses he had which went unavenged were against all time greats in Sam Langford and Harry Wills, both of who outweighed him and at his best he was good enough to post two wins over both Harry Greb and Billy Miske as well as KO'ing the excellent George Godfrey inside four.

Great article, Jeff and I'd say that Norfolk is a worthy addition to the series.

The Kid's reputation has perhaps suffered due to the very serious accusations that he may just have been the dirtiest fighter of all time - I believe he's credited, almost exclusively, as the men who blinded Greb in one eye - but it should be noted that dirty fighting was a common theme in the Kid's era and that he was hardly alone in knowing the dark arts inside out.

Superb record, though. Without doubt a world champion in most other eras we've seen since. My compliments again on the article, little else to add from me as you've done a fine job.

Nice thread, interesting read on a fighter I have only ever heard of in relation to Greb.
What weights did he operate at was it middle to heavy? What style of fighter? (apart from dirty)
Never knew about high level fights operating in Pamama during construction of the canal.

He is billed as anywhere between 165 and 183 jim so would guess his best weight would be around light heavy, seems his style was to get in close and swarm opponents, if this is the case and his reputation for dirtiness was accurate you can only imagine what carnage him and Greb managed to create because Greb was not noted for going backwards and was on nothing more than casual terms with the Marquis of Queensbury

Nothing really to add as my knowledge in boxing pre 1940's is still in it's developing stage, but really interesting read.

PS Rowley, we love you more with this sort of stuff, forget the viewing figures!!!

Great article, rowley!

Don't really have a lot more to add as I'd be on the same lines as Alex but hopefully I'll be making more appearances on the boards from I've finished uni.

Great article Jeff. I always love these. Never heard of this guy before but seems like he really lives up to the billing as a colour line 'great'.

I was going to say it's a great and informative article, but I think I'm gonna wait for Gordy to provide a quote from Lennox Lewis advocating it's greatness.

Excellent work Jeff. On a side note there is a gentleman Jim Corbett documentary that has been released. 75 minutes long narrated by liam neeson. Hopefully it's worth watching.

"Color" line greats!!!

Politics of the time.....it saddens me to say!!!......

Politics of the future If the moronic Romney-Ryan ticket wins no doubt..

Kid Norfolk is being remembered though on here.... so some posthumous appreciation for him.....

and rightly so..

jimdig wrote:Excellent work Jeff. On a side note there is a gentleman Jim Corbett documentary that has been released. 75 minutes long narrated by liam neeson. Hopefully it's worth watching.

I saw something about that Jim, think I am right in saying it is directed by Andrew Gallimore, have got a few of his books, if the film is as good the books it should be excellent

rowley wrote:

jimdig wrote:Excellent work Jeff. On a side note there is a gentleman Jim Corbett documentary that has been released. 75 minutes long narrated by liam neeson. Hopefully it's worth watching.

I saw something about that Jim, think I am right in saying it is directed by Andrew Gallimore, have got a few of his books, if the film is as good the books it should be excellent

Correct as ever Jeff, it's gallimore, it peaks the hope that it'll be more about his boxing career and less about his acting career. Either way it'll be worth a watch. Sorry for sidelining your thread didn't think it merited its own.

disppointing boring old-timer tripe rowley, where is the 'tyson is rubbish. FACT' thread i was pinning my hopes on?

Norfolk is actually one of the few colour line boys i knew a smidgen about, but I learnt more here. Good stuff rowley, and not so ignored now...

... some subtle guerilla marketing on the lewis thread that's bumped you into double figures already. kid norfolk should go viral and will no doubt be trending on Muppet by morning.

Is your charley burley facebook page up and running yet, or is that phase 2 of the rollout?

Cracking article, thanks Jeff!

It's great not having to read all these boxing history books when we have you and Tina etc educating on the interesting bits. Keep 'em coming...!

milkyboy wrote:

Is your charley burley facebook page up and running yet, or is that phase 2 of the rollout?

I would tell you there is already one on their milky but kind of gives away the fact I subscribe to it which even by my standards is pretty tragic.

Great article Jeffrey. You have quite a back catalogue of these now.

I only knew a smidge about Kid Norfolk but feel suitably educated now. Nice one.

You really should stick to these type of threads. Your Lennox Lewis thread started off badly, the middle bit was a bit dull and it has now become a farce. Nice attempt to ingratiate yourself with the masses though.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
You really should stick to these type of threads. Your Lennox Lewis thread started off badly, the middle bit was a bit dull and it has now become a farce. Nice attempt to ingratiate yourself with the masses though.

Do tend to agree Tina, feel like the worst kind of sell out, is like seeing Mark E Smith doing a duet with Westlife, may just delete it and have done with it.

rowley wrote:

Mark E Smith doing a duet with Westlife

Perish the thought.

Didn't your mum buy a dog of someone from Westlife?

Kind of, he bought his bitch to mate with my mother's dog, it was Mark I believe, lovely chap apparently.

rowley wrote:Kind of, he bought his bitch to mate with my mother's dog, it was Mark I believe, lovely chap apparently.

Thanks for clearing it up. My memory can be a bit hazy when it comes to Irish pop bands and their canine mating hobbies.

rowley wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
You really should stick to these type of threads. Your Lennox Lewis thread started off badly, the middle bit was a bit dull and it has now become a farce. Nice attempt to ingratiate yourself with the masses though.

Do tend to agree Tina, feel like the worst kind of sell out, is like seeing Mark E Smith doing a duet with Westlife, may just delete it and have done with it.

Any chance you can delete Gordy while you're at it??

The Kid's reputation has perhaps suffered due to the very serious accusations that he may just have been the dirtiest fighter of all time

Captain Bob Roper (a frequent opponent of Greb) may well lay claim to that title, Chris. Apparently a huge fan of the blatant headbutt.

Nice article, jeff.

Kind of, he bought his bitch to mate with my mother's dog, it was Mark I believe, lovely chap apparently.

I read the thread a bit too quickly and thought that someone from Westlife's dog had mated with Mark E Smith. Poor dog would have had to have a fair drink inside her.